[Edu-sig] Followup re Diversity

Mon Oct 19 18:59:50 CEST 2009

Here's another thread for an open archive.  You'll notice this was
censored in its original context (couldn't get past the admin group --
four individuals spread across time zones).

Academic freedom ala liberal arts culture means edu-sig is actually
more open to diverse points of view.

Given Pycon Atlanta is swiftly approaching, the idea of a prayer room
makes some sense.

Kirby

========

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <diversity-owner at python.org>
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 2:50 PM
Subject: Request to mailing list Diversity rejected
To: kirby.urner at gmail.com

Your request to the Diversity mailing list

  Posting of your message titled "Re: [Diversity] Admin: Kirby Urner
now moderated"

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator.

Aahz: I was going to approve this message -- borderline as it was --
until I got to "dweeb".  Feel free to edit and resubmit."

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

  diversity-owner at python.org

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: Prayer room LCD
To: diversity at python.org

Note:  this message was at first rejected by Aahz because of the
expletive in the last sentence, which I have removed.  It should now
be suitable for publication.

Kirby

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From:  <diversity-owner at python.org>
Date: Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:06 AM
Subject: Request to mailing list Diversity rejected
To: kirby.urner at gmail.com

Your request to the Diversity mailing list

  Posting of your message titled "Re: Prayer room LCD"

has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
following reason for rejecting your request:

"Your message was deemed inappropriate by the moderator.

Aahz: Sorry, if I have to reject what is otherwise a borderline
message because you crossed the line, you need to rewrite it to be
well within the borderline."

Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
at:

  diversity-owner at python.org

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 1:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Diversity] Admin: Kirby Urner now moderated
To: Rami Chowdhury <rami.chowdhury at gmail.com>
Cc: diversity at python.org

On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Rami Chowdhury
<rami.chowdhury at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Saturday 17 October 2009 13:52:35 kirby urner wrote:
> > If you get an LCD going, you could rotate through the religious icons
> > depending on what's on the schedule, with time booked for Subgenius of
> > course
> What, you mean like a crescent popping up five times a day? I don't think that
> would work, personally, although I am definitely pro a prayer room. Can anyone
> suggest who I need to approach with the prayer room suggestion?
>

The point is to show off how geeks are able to share their spiritual
side in a conference setting in a smooth multi-cultural way that
accepts diversity i.e. if you end up with a separate room for each
tradition, that'd probably represent a failure (wasteful, poor design,
ineffective).

It was already suggested on this list that people coordinate amongst
themselves if wanting to visit a local religious establishment e.g. if
there's a synagogue or mosque or even Christian church in Atlanta,
maybe people could organize going together.  Atheists might get
together at the same time, along with Rastafarians or whatever.

Conference management would have little to do with this, but could at
least mention the possibility in the printed program, maybe simply
list a few religious institutions nearby, much as many programs
already list eateries (restaurants) and pubs -- again, showing some
official acknowledgment that geeks have a spiritual side (I'm sorry if
the word "geek" is an offense word to some here, however my plan is to
keep using it as that's how I talk and I don't think diversity always
means giving up one's own native language in exchange for some
corporate sani-speak).

Intelligent use of LCDs seems a hallmark of the future of geekdom i.e.
these conferences are going to make more and better use of them no
matter what.  Whether this extends to a prayer room setting I have no
idea, but it's worth talking about, that's what partly this list is
for (right?).  In my work with Vern Ceder on the posters (including
submissions from user groups, even school children), we've talked
about using LCDs more effectively.

I brought up Subgenius as one of the traditions I'm involved with and
which is already good at producing LCD content in some venues (e.g.
the recent Devival I attended here in Portland with some of my
friends).  Some Python-related events I attend have LCD stuff going
(not talking about a usa.pycon necessarily, more home grown, yet
perhaps of interest to PSF anyway?  Our PPUG meets at WebTrends and
the LCDs there show company stuff, in between showing geek slides).

Your idea of a crescent popping up five times a day sounds a tad
dismissive and if I chose to feel offended, I could easily.  I've been
to a synagogue that doubles as a Christian church, and the appropriate
religious icons come to the foreground just for that service, then go
back into their compartments (this is easy because Jews meet on
Saturdays and Christians on Sundays).

We could have an LCD do somewhat the same thing (time share among
traditions) -- really not such a bad idea, especially when it comes to
opening one's mind to other traditions besides one's own (the whole
point of some conferences) but yes, this idea may be beyond the
imaginations of corporate dolts aka pointy haired bosses.

I did request of the admin group that I be released from the penalty
box (moderation) as many here thought that was a silly development and
said so JFTR.

Checking my personal email, I so far see no indication that my request
has been honored.  No one had the common decency to get back to me
about my request except to complain that I'd bothered them, apparently
during not working hours.

I am a PSF member in good standing and know a lot of Pythonistas
personally.  I take offense at how shabbily I've been treated by this
admin group and I must say I've rarely if ever encountered a more
amateurishly managed list.

If I get another bounce message when I press the send button, then
this is further confirmation that diversity at python.org is and was a
Bad Idea, though it may still have potential if we ever decide to it
right and more seriously.  diversity-sig anyone?

In my view you can't have it both ways:  if this is some kind of
semi-private "cocktail party" as many claim, then it's not ipso facto
and by the same token a policy-making body that should be sending
guidelines to speakers, building up stress levels about whether
material is "appropriate" or not.

I give the PSF list credit for coming up with the Diversity Statement
we actually used, with this group doing rather minor word-smithing.
The contrast between the two lists is quite interesting, in terms of
traffic and what gets done.  I think the PSF is already way ahead of
this list, in terms of thinking about Diversity (if you haven't been
reading my blogs on this topic, then you probably don't know what I'm
talking about -- and that's OK).

Having "guidelines" show up out of nowhere, with the implication that
your career could be damaged if you don't take them seriously, starts
to sound Orwellian and many geeks don't take well to having nebulous
behind-the-scenes others, just more geeks like themselves, trying to
manage content, even in the form of guidelines.

By what process were these developed?  If it's not perfectly
transparent, then maybe it's simply oppressive and should be resisted,
not encouraged?

The ApacheCon thing didn't look especially welcoming or well thought
out.  This sense of a lurking "we" that knows everything, is acting as
Big Brother when it comes to what's offensive, may be an aspect of
that subculture we *don't* want to imitate?

We should debate this things, openly (with a public archive bloggers
can link to directly), before we simply choose to imitate or copy.

Original thinking on diversity issues is what we should be encouraged,
not "hey, let's just do what everyone else is doing".  We're proud
Pythonistas, not dweebs, right?

Kirby Urner
PSF 09

>
> ----
> Rami Chowdhury
> "Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information
> available." -- Benford's Law of Controversy
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