From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Thu Feb  7 02:58:13 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:58:13 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Education BoF at PyCon
Message-ID: <47AA65B5.9010004@canterburyschool.org>

Hey, everyone...

I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon - 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us 
will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where 
and when...

Cheers,
Vern

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From aharrin at luc.edu  Thu Feb  7 04:45:56 2008
From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47AA65B5.9010004@canterburyschool.org>
References: <47AA65B5.9010004@canterburyschool.org>
Message-ID: <fc87cd880802061945s4e24af00n1fc6b72babe9ea85@mail.gmail.com>

Vern,
Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food and
in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.

thoughts:
lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.

A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible from
the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and not
meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown or
....

Andy

On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
wrote:

>
> Hey, everyone...
>
> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon -
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where
> and when...
>
> Cheers,
> Vern
>
> --
> This time for sure!
>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> -----------------------------
> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "edupython" group.
> To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
>


-- 
Andrew N. Harrington
 Director of Academic Programs
 Computer Science Department
 Loyola University Chicago
 512B Lewis Towers (office)
 Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
 820 North Michigan Avenue
 Chicago, Illinois 60611

http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
Phone: 312-915-7999
Fax:    312-915-7998
gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
aharrin at luc.edu as professor
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From jeff at elkner.net  Thu Feb  7 13:35:37 2008
From: jeff at elkner.net (Jeffrey Elkner)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 12:35:37 +0000
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <fc87cd880802061945s4e24af00n1fc6b72babe9ea85@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>

Hi Vern and Andy,

Just name the time and place.  I'm there!

jeff

On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu> wrote:
>Vern,
>Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food and
>in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
>
>thoughts:
>lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
>overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
>Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
>We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
>
>A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible from
>the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and not
>meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
>pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown or
>....
>
>Andy
>
>On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> Hey, everyone...
>>
>> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon -
>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
>> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where
>> and when...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Vern
>>
>> --
>> This time for sure!
>>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>> -----------------------------
>> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>>
>> >
>>
>
>
>--
>Andrew N. Harrington
> Director of Academic Programs
> Computer Science Department
> Loyola University Chicago
> 512B Lewis Towers (office)
> Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
> 820 North Michigan Avenue
> Chicago, Illinois 60611
>
>http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
>Phone: 312-915-7999
>Fax:    312-915-7998
>gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
>upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
>aharrin at luc.edu as professor
>
>--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "edupython" group.
>To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
>-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Feb  7 16:39:46 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:39:46 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
References: <fc87cd880802061945s4e24af00n1fc6b72babe9ea85@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
Message-ID: <f604188c0802070739v59b25edby474a299180ab2f44@mail.gmail.com>

Ditto

Kirby

On Feb 7, 2008 4:35 AM, Jeffrey Elkner <jeff at elkner.net> wrote:
> Hi Vern and Andy,
>
> Just name the time and place.  I'm there!
>
> jeff
>
>
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu> wrote:
> >Vern,
> >Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food and
> >in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
> >
> >thoughts:
> >lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
> >overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
> >Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
> >We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
> >
> >A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible from
> >the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and not
> >meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
> >pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown or
> >....
> >
> >Andy
> >
> >On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hey, everyone...
> >>
> >> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon -
> >> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
> >> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where
> >> and when...
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Vern
> >>
> >> --
> >> This time for sure!
> >>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> >> -----------------------------
> >> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> >> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> >> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >Andrew N. Harrington
> > Director of Academic Programs
> > Computer Science Department
> > Loyola University Chicago
> > 512B Lewis Towers (office)
> > Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
> > 820 North Michigan Avenue
> > Chicago, Illinois 60611
> >
> >http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
> >Phone: 312-915-7999
> >Fax:    312-915-7998
> >gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
> >upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
> >aharrin at luc.edu as professor
> >
> >--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "edupython" group.
> >To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> >For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
> >-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>

From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Sat Feb  9 20:27:14 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:27:14 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
References: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
Message-ID: <47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>

Well, I would definitely vote for dinner - those have been too much fun 
in past years to pass up. I personally would be up for a trip too 
Greektown, but it may be more time than some others have to spare.

I also think we should grab some open space time to have a (slightly) 
more formal gathering - we didn't do that last year, since we wanted to 
go to the OLPC gathering, and I, for one, missed it.

So how does Friday evening sound? It looks like we would have the most 
time after the day's formal activities are over. What does everyone think?

Cheers,
Vern

Jeffrey Elkner wrote:
> Hi Vern and Andy,
> 
> Just name the time and place.  I'm there!
> 
> jeff
> 
> On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu> wrote:
>> Vern,
>> Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food and
>> in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
>>
>> thoughts:
>> lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
>> overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
>> Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
>> We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
>>
>> A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible from
>> the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and not
>> meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
>> pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown or
>> ....
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, everyone...
>>>
>>> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon -
>>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
>>> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where
>>> and when...
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Vern
>>>
>>> --
>>> This time for sure!
>>>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>>> -----------------------------
>>> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>>> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>>> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew N. Harrington
>> Director of Academic Programs
>> Computer Science Department
>> Loyola University Chicago
>> 512B Lewis Towers (office)
>> Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
>> 820 North Michigan Avenue
>> Chicago, Illinois 60611
>>
>> http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
>> Phone: 312-915-7999
>> Fax:    312-915-7998
>> gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
>> upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
>> aharrin at luc.edu as professor
>>
>> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "edupython" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
>> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Sat Feb  9 20:59:22 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 11:59:22 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>
References: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
	<47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>
Message-ID: <f604188c0802091159h5fa410b9ue498e519751d799b@mail.gmail.com>

Provided O'Hare is a sane scene (no guarantees given weather) I should
be in the hotel venue by Thursday night.  I had to think long an hard
about missing tutorials, but I'll have two daughters in tow (one adult,
one dependent) and a limited window.  But hey, Friday, BOF table,
any other gathering of edu-sig types, would be a pleasure.

On the Python in Portland front, my Saturday Academy class didn't
fill, freeing me up to private tutor, plus we're exploring a deal with Intel
(I'll let ya know).  Anna Roys of TECC in Alaska (charter school
on the drawing board) is continuing to incorporate more Python
into her lesson plans (some of these are for credit, as she's
seeking a new credential, having found out the hard way what
it's like to be outside an inner circle).

The funny thing about the computer training interview was the boss
in charge hadn't even heard of Python.  I keep forgetting how we're
"news" in some circles -- which can be a *good* thing (means we
still get to make that all important "first impression").

A lot of the math teachers I encounter, in my work with the schools,
still have this 1970s picture of computer programs consisting of
reams of paper, tall stacks of punch cards.  When they see Pippy
programs, or mine (even shorter), I sense some relief. **

MathCad was in a lot of ways a bridge application (still is), in that
it allows users the math symbols they're used to (Riemann Sum
symbols and like that), yet in the background we're talking
spreadsheet-with-formulas, lots of text mixed in (a good MathCad
paper is both an essay and an executable -- reminiscent of Leo
in some ways).  My friend David Feinstein (CalTech, studied under
Feynman) will go straight from a MathCad "paper" to a patch of
runnable code in some embedded device.  Even when engineers
get lost in their own framework, the part David contributed remains
a model of clarity.

Kirby

** here's an excerpt from one of my internal TECC communications:

In Python, we have the four major operations you find
on the cheapest of calculators, + - * /.  Then we also
have %, which is the "modulo" operator.  Increasing
student comfort level with modulo arithmetic (what
some textbooks call "clock arithmetic") is another
goal of this curriculum, connected to all of the above.

So, for example, in some of our lessons, we use our
gcd function, i.e. Euclid's Algorithm, to find what are
called the "totatives" of a number:  all positive integers
smaller than N, with no factors in common with N,
i.e. smaller positives "coprime" to N.  How many
totatives N has is called its totient.

So in Python:

"""
tecc1.py:
thunderbird academy
"""

def gcd ( a,  b):
  "Euclid's Algorithm"
  while b:
     a, b = b, a % b
  return a

def totatives( n ):
  "0 < coprimes of n < n"
  return [ x for x in range(1, n) if gcd(x, n) == 1 ]

def totient( n ):
  "number of totatives"
  return len(totatives(n))

Example of student using the above in the interactive
shell:

>>> from tecc1 import *

>>> gcd(12, 27)
3
>>> totient(27)
18
>>> totatives(27)
[1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25, 26]
>>> totatives(12)
[1, 5, 7, 11]
>>> totient(12)
4

and so on.

Note how these three Python functions, indicated with
the keyword 'def' are very short, easy to follow once
you've learned a few basics.  Note also that these
functions then get accessed interactively, much like
the experience of using a calculator (but probably
with a bigger screen) -- no writing some menu or
looping structure with prompts (very 1970s).


On Feb 9, 2008 11:27 AM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org> wrote:
> Well, I would definitely vote for dinner - those have been too much fun
> in past years to pass up. I personally would be up for a trip too
> Greektown, but it may be more time than some others have to spare.
>
> I also think we should grab some open space time to have a (slightly)
> more formal gathering - we didn't do that last year, since we wanted to
> go to the OLPC gathering, and I, for one, missed it.
>
> So how does Friday evening sound? It looks like we would have the most
> time after the day's formal activities are over. What does everyone think?
>
> Cheers,
> Vern
>
>
> Jeffrey Elkner wrote:
> > Hi Vern and Andy,
> >
> > Just name the time and place.  I'm there!
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu> wrote:
> >> Vern,
> >> Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food and
> >> in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
> >>
> >> thoughts:
> >> lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
> >> overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
> >> Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
> >> We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
> >>
> >> A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible from
> >> the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and not
> >> meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
> >> pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown or
> >> ....
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey, everyone...
> >>>
> >>> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon -
> >>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
> >>> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is where
> >>> and when...
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Vern
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This time for sure!
> >>>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> >>> -----------------------------
> >>> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> >>> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> >>> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andrew N. Harrington
> >> Director of Academic Programs
> >> Computer Science Department
> >> Loyola University Chicago
> >> 512B Lewis Towers (office)
> >> Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
> >> 820 North Michigan Avenue
> >> Chicago, Illinois 60611
> >>
> >> http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh
> >> Phone: 312-915-7999
> >> Fax:    312-915-7998
> >> gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
> >> upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
> >> aharrin at luc.edu as professor
> >>
> >> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "edupython" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
> >> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edu-sig mailing list
> > Edu-sig at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>
> --
> This time for sure!
>     -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> -----------------------------
> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>

From aharrin at luc.edu  Sun Feb 10 15:03:52 2008
From: aharrin at luc.edu (Andrew Harrington)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 08:03:52 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>
References: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>
	<47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>
Message-ID: <fc87cd880802100603i3435f671o243871b68faef6a7@mail.gmail.com>

Vern, I am not sure if you are suggesting doing *something* Friday or mean
to be more specific as to dinner, evening meeting, both

One idea:  A more formal meeting would pretty clearly be at the conference.
We could do that Friday, say 8PM.  There might be discussion then of how
much time to invest in heading out to dinner Saturday.

Andy

On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
wrote:

>
> Well, I would definitely vote for dinner - those have been too much fun
> in past years to pass up. I personally would be up for a trip too
> Greektown, but it may be more time than some others have to spare.
>
> I also think we should grab some open space time to have a (slightly)
> more formal gathering - we didn't do that last year, since we wanted to
> go to the OLPC gathering, and I, for one, missed it.
>
> So how does Friday evening sound? It looks like we would have the most
> time after the day's formal activities are over. What does everyone think?
>
> Cheers,
> Vern
>
> Jeffrey Elkner wrote:
> > Hi Vern and Andy,
> >
> > Just name the time and place.  I'm there!
> >
> > jeff
> >
> > On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington <aharrin at luc.edu>
> wrote:
> >> Vern,
> >> Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk over food
> and
> >> in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
> >>
> >> thoughts:
> >> lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute talks
> >> overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
> >> Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
> >> We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
> >>
> >> A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily accessible
> from
> >> the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings, and
> not
> >> meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and maybe a
> >> pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to Greektown
> or
> >> ....
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org
> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hey, everyone...
> >>>
> >>> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page for PyCon
> -
> >>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some of us
> >>> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always, is
> where
> >>> and when...
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> Vern
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This time for sure!
> >>>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> >>> -----------------------------
> >>> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> >>> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> >>> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andrew N. Harrington
> >> Director of Academic Programs
> >> Computer Science Department
> >> Loyola University Chicago
> >> 512B Lewis Towers (office)
> >> Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
> >> 820 North Michigan Avenue
> >> Chicago, Illinois 60611
> >>
> >> http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh <http://www.cs.luc.edu/%7Eanh>
> >> Phone: 312-915-7999
> >> Fax:    312-915-7998
> >> gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
> >> upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
> >> aharrin at luc.edu as professor
> >>
> >> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edu-sig mailing list
> > Edu-sig at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>
> --
> This time for sure!
>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> -----------------------------
> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>
> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "edupython" group.
> To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>
>


-- 
Andrew N. Harrington
 Director of Academic Programs
 Computer Science Department
 Loyola University Chicago
 512B Lewis Towers (office)
 Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
 820 North Michigan Avenue
 Chicago, Illinois 60611

http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh <http://www.cs.luc.edu/%7Eanh>
Phone: 312-915-7999
Fax:    312-915-7998
gdp at cs.luc.edu for graduate administration
upd at cs.luc.edu for undergrad administration
aharrin at luc.edu as professor
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From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Sun Feb 10 18:56:38 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 12:56:38 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] [edupython] Re: [edupython] Re: Education BoF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <fc87cd880802100603i3435f671o243871b68faef6a7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080207123537.6859.694622326.divmod.quotient.6249@ohm>	<47ADFE92.40105@canterburyschool.org>
	<fc87cd880802100603i3435f671o243871b68faef6a7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47AF3AD6.9010202@canterburyschool.org>

Ah, right, sorry about being vague (that's been known to happen, I'm 
afraid).

Yeah, you pretty much figured it out - I was thinking that we might want 
to grab an open space for Friday evening, and I wasn't sure which night 
we might want to do dinner.

I've put down your suggestion (which makes sense to me) on the wiki page 
linked from our entry on the BoF page - the direct link is 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/EduPython2008

Everyone who's interested can go there and add themselves to the list 
and note any conflicts they know of. Of course further suggestions, 
either here or on the wiki, would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Vern


Andrew Harrington wrote:
> Vern, I am not sure if you are suggesting doing *something* Friday or 
> mean to be more specific as to dinner, evening meeting, both
> 
> One idea:  A more formal meeting would pretty clearly be at the 
> conference.  We could do that Friday, say 8PM.  There might be 
> discussion then of how much time to invest in heading out to dinner 
> Saturday. 
> 
> Andy
> 
> On Sat, Feb 9, 2008 at 1:27 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org 
> <mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
>     Well, I would definitely vote for dinner - those have been too much fun
>     in past years to pass up. I personally would be up for a trip too
>     Greektown, but it may be more time than some others have to spare.
> 
>     I also think we should grab some open space time to have a (slightly)
>     more formal gathering - we didn't do that last year, since we wanted to
>     go to the OLPC gathering, and I, for one, missed it.
> 
>     So how does Friday evening sound? It looks like we would have the most
>     time after the day's formal activities are over. What does everyone
>     think?
> 
>     Cheers,
>     Vern
> 
>     Jeffrey Elkner wrote:
>      > Hi Vern and Andy,
>      >
>      > Just name the time and place.  I'm there!
>      >
>      > jeff
>      >
>      > On Wed, 6 Feb 2008 21:45:56 -0600, Andrew Harrington
>     <aharrin at luc.edu <mailto:aharrin at luc.edu>> wrote:
>      >> Vern,
>      >> Good thinking.   In the past we have gotten together to talk
>     over food and
>      >> in a separate meeting time that does not conflict with talks.
>      >>
>      >> thoughts:
>      >> lunch.  lunch Friday is 90 minutes.  The next two days 45 minute
>     talks
>      >> overlap it by 15 minutes, so it is down to 75 minutes
>      >> Going out to dinner was fun last year.  could be Friday or Saturday.
>      >> We have met in the evening.  Saturday would be good.
>      >>
>      >> A difference from last year is that we have Chicago easily
>     accessible from
>      >> the hotel!  If people want to go out and see it in the evenings,
>     and not
>      >> meet at that time, then I suggest meeting for lunch Friday and
>     maybe a
>      >> pre-dinner time.  Or we could all pile on the El and head to
>     Greektown or
>      >> ....
>      >>
>      >> Andy
>      >>
>      >> On Wed, Feb 6, 2008 at 7:58 PM, Vern Ceder
>     <vceder at canterburyschool.org <mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>>
>      >> wrote:
>      >>
>      >>> Hey, everyone...
>      >>>
>      >>> I've just put a placeholder down for us on the BoF wiki page
>     for PyCon -
>      >>> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Birds_of_a_Feather - I assume some
>     of us
>      >>> will want to get together in Chicago. The question, as always,
>     is where
>      >>> and when...
>      >>>
>      >>> Cheers,
>      >>> Vern
>      >>>
>      >>> --
>      >>> This time for sure!
>      >>>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>      >>> -----------------------------
>      >>> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>      >>> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>      >>> vceder at canterburyschool.org
>     <mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>      >>>
>      >>
>      >> --
>      >> Andrew N. Harrington
>      >> Director of Academic Programs
>      >> Computer Science Department
>      >> Loyola University Chicago
>      >> 512B Lewis Towers (office)
>      >> Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
>      >> 820 North Michigan Avenue
>      >> Chicago, Illinois 60611
>      >>
>      >> http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh <http://www.cs.luc.edu/%7Eanh>
>      >> Phone: 312-915-7999
>      >> Fax:    312-915-7998
>      >> gdp at cs.luc.edu <mailto:gdp at cs.luc.edu> for graduate administration
>      >> upd at cs.luc.edu <mailto:upd at cs.luc.edu> for undergrad administration
>      >> aharrin at luc.edu <mailto:aharrin at luc.edu> as professor
>      >>
>      >> >>
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > Edu-sig mailing list
>      > Edu-sig at python.org <mailto:Edu-sig at python.org>
>      > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
> 
>     --
>     This time for sure!
>        -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>     -----------------------------
>     Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>     Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>     vceder at canterburyschool.org <mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>;
>     260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
> 
>     --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
>     You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>     Groups "edupython" group.
>     To post to this group, send email to edupython at googlegroups.com
>     <mailto:edupython at googlegroups.com>
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>     edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
>     <mailto:edupython-unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>
>     For more options, visit this group at
>     http://groups.google.com/group/edupython?hl=en
>     -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew N. Harrington
>  Director of Academic Programs
>  Computer Science Department
>  Loyola University Chicago
>  512B Lewis Towers (office)
>  Snail mail to Lewis Towers 416
>  820 North Michigan Avenue
>  Chicago, Illinois 60611
> 
> http://www.cs.luc.edu/~anh <http://www.cs.luc.edu/%7Eanh>
> Phone: 312-915-7999
> Fax:    312-915-7998
> gdp at cs.luc.edu <mailto:gdp at cs.luc.edu> for graduate administration
> upd at cs.luc.edu <mailto:upd at cs.luc.edu> for undergrad administration
> aharrin at luc.edu <mailto:aharrin at luc.edu> as professor
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From csev at umich.edu  Wed Feb 13 18:21:21 2008
From: csev at umich.edu (csev)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:21:21 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Education BOF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1202468404.16831.edu-sig@python.org>
References: <mailman.13.1202468404.16831.edu-sig@python.org>
Message-ID: <624F484B-33DB-4E1D-B031-576534C6EC5D@umich.edu>

Was there ever a time figured out for the BOF in Chicago - or will we  
figure it out when we get there?

I am looking forward to is as I am teaching intro programming in  
Python for the first tie this semester and would like to learn from  
other folks teaching starting programmers.

Charles Severance
University of Michigan
www.dr-chuck.com

From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Thu Feb 14 01:57:02 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:57:02 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Education BOF at PyCon
In-Reply-To: <624F484B-33DB-4E1D-B031-576534C6EC5D@umich.edu>
References: <mailman.13.1202468404.16831.edu-sig@python.org>
	<624F484B-33DB-4E1D-B031-576534C6EC5D@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <47B391DE.7000208@canterburyschool.org>

I think we were talking about an open space gathering Friday evening and 
maybe dinner on Saturday.

Feel free to add yourself and any ideas you might have to 
http://wiki.python.org/moin/EduPython2008

Cheers,
Vern

csev wrote:
> Was there ever a time figured out for the BOF in Chicago - or will we  
> figure it out when we get there?
> 
> I am looking forward to is as I am teaching intro programming in  
> Python for the first tie this semester and would like to learn from  
> other folks teaching starting programmers.
> 
> Charles Severance
> University of Michigan
> www.dr-chuck.com
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Feb 18 06:54:50 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2008 21:54:50 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] the "minimalist vs. maximalist" spectrum
Message-ID: <f604188c0802172154k17be68adj884fbdacf413538b@mail.gmail.com>

So I've been cavorting in J-world some (Jsoftware.com).  That's
another math-through-programming REPL, in the tradition of APL and
ISETL.  Been blogging as usual, plus watching the EuroPython thing
gel.

A local gig in the private sector led to a big Chicago-based firm
thinking highly of Python (some buzzcrawler app my friend Patrick
wrote, after attending my classes).  I get the impression that word is
still spreading, the buzz about Python still getting going.

Like this head hunter I talked recently with was just starting to
learn about Python.  I pointed her to O'Reilly's famous "history of
programming languages" time line (not up to date, but still highly
informative).  Follow-up meeting on Tuesday.

Our Portland User Group (PUG) list has been fun lately, with basic /
core Python advice (Jason sure knows those itertools).

I'm still working with TECC, an Alaska based charter still on the
drawing board, and a possible outlet for Pythonic Math products,
forged here in Bridge City aka Portland.  LEP High, off the drawing
board (in the sense of fully operational) already had me in for a test
drive.  Heavy emphasis on peer-to-peer learning, like with Kusasa.

TECC's founder, Anna Roys, walked away with my copy of John Zelle's
book (my gift to her youngest).  Her family already invests in C++, or
was it C#.  Anyway, there's definitely a talent pool around Anchorage
taking shape on my radar (I haven't managed to jet up there yet though
-- way busy in PDX).  More on the math-teach list (Math Forum @
Drexel).

So we'll probably do cellular automata, fractals, the kind of eye
candy stuff we've talked a whole lot about here over the years
(surprise surprise).Kevin's PythonCard demos also fit here, plus lead
into code samples around how to leverage wxPython (see below).
Portland is heavily into nanotech.  Seems like CA studies and nanotech
also wind up co-mingling.

I find it useful to distinguish between Python packages written by pro
programmers like Kevin, and helpful to students in various walks of
life (e.g. Alice, no longer in Python), versus more Pippy-like stuff,
where the assumption is that users want direct access to some
calculator-like REPL, will do their own coding, maybe with some
scaffolding (e.g. a vector class, or something to write povray or x3d
files (why reinvent the wheel?)).

My company's output has focused mostly on the Pippy-like angle, moving
to other APIs only recently.  Others here are into providing deeper
packages, stuff students might use without trying to poke around in
the source code too much, which code is way above the beginner level.
Doesn't mean they can't do that eventually of course.  Go back to that
turtle, figure out what made it tick.

In between, are self-teaching products, i.e. learning tools that also
teach how to write rather elaborate programs (way above the "sequences
and series" of OEIS vintage that I focus on -- using Python generators
more often than not (many examples already given, I'll spare you the
repetition, plus "next syntax" has changed with 3.x, so a lot of my
stuff needs a rewrite)).

PyGeo falls into this category (a self-teaching product), in that
Arthur was looking to new recruit bona fide "code warriors", not just
students of projective geometry (the knowledge domain for this
package).

Environments like Leo suggest themselves at this juncture, as if
you're taking students deep into a source code forest, a lot will
depend on friendly documentation, a sense that you have a clear guide.

The fact of a Unicode basis also means these heavily documented code
piles take internationalization for granted (not true when I was first
cutting teeth as a coder of text based, then GUI apps).

Python is such a fertile mixing ground because it attracts the
minimalist REPL people, coming from Iverson's APL/J pipeline, (I'd
count myself in this group), *and* maximalist writers of "big code"
such as Zope.  We don't exactly compete, just come from different ends
on the spectrum, meeting in some happy middle ground.

A lot of us wear more than one hat on this small-to-large spectrum,
e.g. write unit tested embellishments by day, as part of a team, churn
out reams of disposable hobby code by night ("programming just for the
fun of it").

IDLE itself is a good symbol of this middle ground, in that it's what
gives minimalists their 5-10 liners, tiny modules of 2-3 classes (4D
Solutions:  permutations, game of life on a hexapent, fractals, NKS
stuff, polyhedra...), yet is itself a substantial package, based
around Tkinter, and requiring a team of maintainers, continuing what
Guido started.

Along one path you might move to MathCad say, or some other terse
notation (generators first, sigma notation to follow).  Along another,
you could drill down into IDLE or Pygeo or Plone or whatever, and
start seeing what deep, complicated Python programs look like under
the hood.  Keep digging to the system layer and below, if that's your
calling (all the way to the chip in some cases).

In sum, what I like about Python is that you can introduce it without
too much bias, to both "minimalists" and "maximalists".  Students at
the intro level get to share the same basic curriculum, and yet divide
up at the next level, now having more to go on to make an informed
choice -- exactly what one wants in a CS0 (or in some exotic hybrid
"gnu math" sequence such as we're sourcing from Portland).

Kirby
4Dsolutions.net

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 02:19:25 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:19:25 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Deliverable Lesson Package = runnable Python Module
Message-ID: <f604188c0802251719k75ae543eg9e25fd04bd5a2101@mail.gmail.com>

My projects have brought me to "lesson plan as python module"
or "python module as lesson plan" concept, a quasi no-brainer
for a lotta ya already, i.e. it's what you've been doing all along.

The "lesson reading / plan = Python module" idea connects to
the rich data structures idea (also a thread on comp.lang.python
not so long ago too).  Like you might keep your Periodic Table of
Elements on the side, in some text-based format, and pipe
it in with a reader, or you might start with it already in a
Pythonic data structure (it's not either/or), e.g.  a module with
each element a class instance of Atom, with attributes protons
and neutrons etc. (why reinvent the wheel?).

Here's a link to a home grown example of recent vintage,
floating around among teachers:

http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/python/global_matrix.py

Note that much of the verbiage is about the knowledge domain
(hexapent geometry -- HP4E is one of my pet projects, named in
honor of CP4E).  The lesson isn't so much about the Python
implementation, which is quite trivial in this case i.e. is not
a "big code" example (very minimal Python 3.x).

What we expect are many similar modules but with at least
the comments sections swapped out, replaced with text in
other languages, including left to right cursives -- the promise
of Unicode.  Your on-ramp to programming doesn't *have*
to mean complete immersion in Latin-1.

The format is simple enough that individual teachers now swap
these around i.e. we're not trying to go for an embeddable XML
type solution, documentation directives, just native Python in
these examples, cut and pastable into any reasonably Unicode-
aware text editor.**

Kirby
4D

 ** I'm aware of other fancy skinning techniques, some with tools
for easy code extraction -- again, it's not either/or.

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Feb 27 01:55:21 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:55:21 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
Message-ID: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>

So what's instead of reload in Python 3.x?

I did some Googling, got stuff like:
http://www.techlists.org/archives/programming/pythonlist/2007-08/msg04244.shtml

I've been enjoying the EuroPython logo contest, lots of cool entries:

http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2008/02/pythonic-art.html
http://controlroom.blogspot.com/2008/02/new-entries.html

Probably any books in production should take 3.x as the new standard
right? Even if we go back to 2.x in the sidebars, to help new students
understand an older code base.

Running a2 on my Ubuntu Dell, with IDLE 'n everything.

I haven't rewritten my own 4D Solutions code base yet, so it's not like
I'm in a big hurry or anything.  3.x is in alpha, not in production.

But books are different from electronic files, in terms of sheer bulk
and lag time to market.  Ending up on the culling table at Fry's too
soon is bad for business.

I anticipate fewer school books, more Safari-like services, even if you
ask for hardcopy in places -- not by government edict (though govt still
wastes too much paper IMO), more market forces, the result of
individuals trying to stay up to date (like how *do* you, without a
subscription? without RSS?).

Kirby
4D

From guido at python.org  Wed Feb 27 02:22:02 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 17:22:02 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:55 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> So what's instead of reload in Python 3.x?

imp.reload()

PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
:-)

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Wed Feb 27 02:43:08 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:43:08 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C4C02C.8070201@canterburyschool.org>

Last month one of ours gave it a "wicked awesome!" ;-)

Cheers,
Vern

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
> :-)
> 

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From bblais at bryant.edu  Wed Feb 27 03:09:23 2008
From: bblais at bryant.edu (Brian Blais)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:09:23 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>

On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
> :-)


What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th  
graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.


			bb

-- 
Brian Blais
bblais at bryant.edu
http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais



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From winstonw at stratolab.com  Wed Feb 27 16:28:51 2008
From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:28:51 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>
Message-ID: <5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>

My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white  
rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also  
they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they  
love that.

-Winston


On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:

> On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
>> :-)
>
>
> What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th  
> graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>
>
> 			bb
>
> -- 
> Brian Blais
> bblais at bryant.edu
> http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

Winston Wolff
Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
(646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com


From guido at python.org  Wed Feb 27 18:12:58 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:12:58 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>
	<5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>

How old are your students? We are considering pygame, but the teacher
is taken aback by the large amount of setup code needed. Also, running
programs using pygame from IDLE on a Mac seems flaky.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Winston Wolff <winstonw at stratolab.com> wrote:
> My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white
>  rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also
>  they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they
>  love that.
>
>  -Winston
>
>
>
>
>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
>
>  > On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>  >
>  >> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>  >> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
>  >> :-)
>  >
>  >
>  > What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th
>  > graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>  >
>  >
>  >                       bb
>  >
>  > --
>  > Brian Blais
>  > bblais at bryant.edu
>  > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
>  > Edu-sig mailing list
>  > Edu-sig at python.org
>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>
>  Winston Wolff
>  Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
>  (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com
>
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From guido at python.org  Wed Feb 27 18:45:02 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:45:02 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>
	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>
	<5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>
	<ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802270945k2ba60e9fsb9b398488d9b8083@mail.gmail.com>

I'd like to learn more about GASP (and whether it works on OSX) but I
am having a hard time finding a recent download link to the sources.
Is there someone here who has recently worked with it and remembers
where they got it? I've found http://pypi.python.org/pypi/gasp/0.4.5
-- is that the latest?

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org> wrote:
> It depends on how motivated the kids are and how much time you've got,
>  but I would tend to agree with the teacher - in my experience that
>  amount of setup is likely to lose a fair number of them. One option
>  might be GASP, which puts a LiveWires wrapper around pygame.
>
>
>  Vern
>
>  Guido van Rossum wrote:
>
>
> > How old are your students? We are considering pygame, but the teacher
>  > is taken aback by the large amount of setup code needed. Also, running
>  > programs using pygame from IDLE on a Mac seems flaky.
>  >
>  > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Winston Wolff <winstonw at stratolab.com> wrote:
>  >> My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white
>  >>  rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also
>  >>  they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they
>  >>  love that.
>  >>
>  >>  -Winston
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
>  >>
>  >>  > On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>  >>  >
>  >>  >> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>  >>  >> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
>  >>  >> :-)
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  > What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th
>  >>  > graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  >                       bb
>  >>  >
>  >>  > --
>  >>  > Brian Blais
>  >>  > bblais at bryant.edu
>  >>  > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>  >
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>> _______________________________________________
>  >>  > Edu-sig mailing list
>  >>  > Edu-sig at python.org
>  >>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>  >>
>  >>  Winston Wolff
>  >>  Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
>  >>  (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>
>  --
>
>
> This time for sure!
>     -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>  -----------------------------
>  Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>  Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>  vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Wed Feb 27 18:24:37 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:24:37 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>	<5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>
	<ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>

It depends on how motivated the kids are and how much time you've got, 
but I would tend to agree with the teacher - in my experience that 
amount of setup is likely to lose a fair number of them. One option 
might be GASP, which puts a LiveWires wrapper around pygame.

Vern

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> How old are your students? We are considering pygame, but the teacher
> is taken aback by the large amount of setup code needed. Also, running
> programs using pygame from IDLE on a Mac seems flaky.
> 
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Winston Wolff <winstonw at stratolab.com> wrote:
>> My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white
>>  rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also
>>  they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they
>>  love that.
>>
>>  -Winston
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
>>
>>  > On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>  >
>>  >> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>>  >> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
>>  >> :-)
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th
>>  > graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >                       bb
>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > Brian Blais
>>  > bblais at bryant.edu
>>  > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>  > Edu-sig mailing list
>>  > Edu-sig at python.org
>>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>
>>  Winston Wolff
>>  Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
>>  (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From winstonw at stratolab.com  Wed Feb 27 18:52:20 2008
From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:52:20 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>	<5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>
	<ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>
Message-ID: <DE7F2BA7-1A4E-4E3D-AD4B-5FE6FF2993EC@stratolab.com>

Hello Guido and Vern-

My Python students range from 11 to 16 years old.

I agree that PyGame's setup is too long and laborious.  So I use my  
own wrapper that reduces the setup code to two lines: import and  
create a Screen() object.  I also wrote an IDLE replacement that runs  
the code in a separate process because PyGame was causing page faults  
if ran in a thread.  You can get my PyGame wrapper (I call it  
moonunit) and IDE (I call it MakeBot), both available in one installer  
here:

	http://stratolab.com/misc/makebot/

and the source:

	http://stratolab.com/wiki/doku.php?id=Stratotools

The Windows installer works fine on XP, I haven't tested on Vista. The  
Macintosh installer has not been updated to Leopard yet.  I have it  
mostly running here, but there are some weird problems with OpenGL/ 
Numpy.

-Winston

On Feb 27, 2008, at 12:24 PM, Vern Ceder wrote:

> It depends on how motivated the kids are and how much time you've  
> got, but I would tend to agree with the teacher - in my experience  
> that amount of setup is likely to lose a fair number of them. One  
> option might be GASP, which puts a LiveWires wrapper around pygame.
>
> Vern
>
> Guido van Rossum wrote:
>> How old are your students? We are considering pygame, but the teacher
>> is taken aback by the large amount of setup code needed. Also,  
>> running
>> programs using pygame from IDLE on a Mac seems flaky.
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Winston Wolff <winstonw at stratolab.com 
>> > wrote:
>>> My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white
>>> rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also
>>> they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they
>>> love that.
>>>
>>> -Winston
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>>> >> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said  
>>> too.
>>> >> :-)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what  
>>> 8th
>>> > graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >                       bb
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Brian Blais
>>> > bblais at bryant.edu
>>> > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> > Edu-sig mailing list
>>> > Edu-sig at python.org
>>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>>
>>> Winston Wolff
>>> Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
>>> (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com
>>>
>>>
>
> -- 
> This time for sure!
>   -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> -----------------------------
> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

Winston Wolff
Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
(646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com


From vceder at canterburyschool.org  Wed Feb 27 18:53:53 2008
From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:53:53 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Reloaded?
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802270945k2ba60e9fsb9b398488d9b8083@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0802261655v1f1dee13p49fb5ab8754eb1a0@mail.gmail.com>	
	<ca471dc20802261722s2d6089tf01847b88f670aa3@mail.gmail.com>	
	<278DB7EE-BF06-446D-8288-0A50F9A3ECC9@bryant.edu>	
	<5DC297BC-8D31-4B98-B87E-1EEA105824C6@stratolab.com>	
	<ca471dc20802270912j56156ea2m7cc3a594f4998088@mail.gmail.com>	
	<47C59CD5.7080700@canterburyschool.org>
	<ca471dc20802270945k2ba60e9fsb9b398488d9b8083@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C5A3B1.2070603@canterburyschool.org>

Have you tried https://launchpad.net/gasp ? That's the latest state of 
play, even though the version numbers might suggest otherwise...

Vern

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I'd like to learn more about GASP (and whether it works on OSX) but I
> am having a hard time finding a recent download link to the sources.
> Is there someone here who has recently worked with it and remembers
> where they got it? I've found http://pypi.python.org/pypi/gasp/0.4.5
> -- is that the latest?
> 
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:24 AM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org> wrote:
>> It depends on how motivated the kids are and how much time you've got,
>>  but I would tend to agree with the teacher - in my experience that
>>  amount of setup is likely to lose a fair number of them. One option
>>  might be GASP, which puts a LiveWires wrapper around pygame.
>>
>>
>>  Vern
>>
>>  Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>
>>
>>> How old are your students? We are considering pygame, but the teacher
>>  > is taken aback by the large amount of setup code needed. Also, running
>>  > programs using pygame from IDLE on a Mac seems flaky.
>>  >
>>  > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Winston Wolff <winstonw at stratolab.com> wrote:
>>  >> My students love anything to do with graphics.  Even making a white
>>  >>  rectangle on the screen and then redrawing it in red is cool.  Also
>>  >>  they love transparency--with PyGame, you can set the alpha and they
>>  >>  love that.
>>  >>
>>  >>  -Winston
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  On Feb 26, 2008, at 9:09 PM, Brian Blais wrote:
>>  >>
>>  >>  > On Feb 26, 2008, at Feb 26:8:22 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >> PS. Just watched two groups of 8th grade middle school girls go
>>  >>  >> through their first Python class. Cool! (That's what they said too.
>>  >>  >> :-)
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > What did they cover in that class?  I'd be curious to know what 8th
>>  >>  > graders consider "cool", after 1 class of programming.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >                       bb
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  > --
>>  >>  > Brian Blais
>>  >>  > bblais at bryant.edu
>>  >>  > http://web.bryant.edu/~bblais
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>> _______________________________________________
>>  >>  > Edu-sig mailing list
>>  >>  > Edu-sig at python.org
>>  >>  > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>  >>
>>  >>  Winston Wolff
>>  >>  Stratolab - Kids exploring computers, comics, and robots
>>  >>  (646) 827-2242 - http://stratolab.com
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>> This time for sure!
>>     -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>>  -----------------------------
>>  Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>>  Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>>  vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>>
> 
> 
> 

-- 
This time for sure!
    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
-----------------------------
Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137

From chuy at google.com  Thu Feb 28 23:59:52 2008
From: chuy at google.com (Jessie 'Chuy' Chavez)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 16:59:52 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] edupython '08
Message-ID: <467d7230802281459v37ba9b59h5ccabc673a61922b@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'm an engineer at Google in Chicago (working on java not python:)  but also
a former math/science teacher interested in meeting up for EduPython this
year.  I've been following the list via feeds though, sadly,  haven't had
much time to participate.   I'm glad PyCon is in town this year and look
forward to attending this year's conference as well as the friday and
saturday nite edu-sig BOF.

If folks are interested, I can offer up a meeting/tour at our office in
River North. I added it to the wiki page as a suggestion.

Thanks and hope to see soon,
Jessie Chavez
Software Engineer
Google, Inc. - Chicago
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