From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 16:40:31 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 07:40:31 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Happy New Year from Kirby Message-ID: I hope ya'll had a good New Years experience, got home safely and so on (I was already home, which made the evening's logistics simpler). When I wasn't out on a boat (watching a guy test his new GPS), or watching TV, or whatever, I kept enhancing my Python @ Winterhaven thing. I'm pretty happy with the results for right now: http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/ Yes, I'm using a lot of recycled material, but hey, that's called "eco-friendly and efficient" in some circles. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060101/0af9afa9/attachment.html From jmillr at umich.edu Sun Jan 1 20:05:24 2006 From: jmillr at umich.edu (John Miller) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 14:05:24 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Brainstorming a new worksheet for 2006 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <67DF57EF-6CBB-4309-8774-43915FCA079E@umich.edu> kirby urner wrote: > That should be enough to get me going. I'll be back soon with that > URL. > It'll be a work in progress and I'll be open to feedback (positive, > negative, neutral, indifferent). > > Kirby One small suggestion. Instead of this: ''' Examples of data structures are: list [a, b, c] dictionary {a:1, b:2, c:3} string "abc" tuple (a,b,c) ''' I suggest this: ''' Examples of data structures are: [a, b, c] # a list {a:1, b:2, c:3} # a dictionary "abc" # a string (a,b,c) # a tuple ''' This cleanly separates the syntax from the labeling, and reinforces the commenting notation. Looking at the larger picture, I'm feeling that there is a need for an online place to provide for the teaching/learning of python that is specifically structured for high school credit. You may have heard that Michigan is thinking of making the completion of an online course a graduation requirement. If this passes, and other states follow, there might well be demand for such a course, or set of courses. I really like Kirby's penchant for sharing his educational endeavors with us, and the materials that go with them, however, it is all very *specific* to his particular situation. I've been wondering if there isn't some way to foster greater collaboration with what Kirby is doing, while at the same time, engender more such efforts by those of us inclined to do so. For example, one well-regarded, open-source curriculum management system is Moodle (moodle.org) (think Blackboard, or WebCT, only free.) If we set up a moodle site, we could each prototype courses, placing emphasis where each of us felt was appropriate or necessary for our own needs, or the perceived needs of a potential audience. We might then synthesize our efforts somehow and make it available to schools (the horizon gets hazy at this point...) One drawback, in my mind, is that moodle runs on php rather than python, and I wouldn't like the subtle irony of that situation. The obvious python product I suppose is plone (plone.org) but that would have to be heavily customized to make it more like a courseware system than a generic content management system. Or maybe using php isn't so bad... Anyway, just wondering if any others were feeling similarly. John Miller From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 1 21:49:22 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 12:49:22 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Brainstorming a new worksheet for 2006 In-Reply-To: <67DF57EF-6CBB-4309-8774-43915FCA079E@umich.edu> References: <67DF57EF-6CBB-4309-8774-43915FCA079E@umich.edu> Message-ID: > > I suggest this: > > ''' > Examples of data structures are: > > [a, b, c] # a list > {a:1, b:2, c:3} # a dictionary > "abc" # a string > (a,b,c) # a tuple > ''' Good suggestion, I'll do it. > For example, one well-regarded, open-source curriculum management > system is Moodle (moodle.org) (think Blackboard, or WebCT, only > free.) If we set up a moodle site, we could each prototype courses, > placing emphasis where each of us felt was appropriate or necessary > for our own needs, or the perceived needs of a potential audience. We > might then synthesize our efforts somehow and make it available to > schools (the horizon gets hazy at this point...) A faculty guy I work with at the school has likewise suggested Moodle. I suspect I'll be spreading Python internally to Portland Public more than I'm engaged in out-of-state collaborations, but that's just a guess. Portland seems receptive to the spin I'm putting on things (the GIS emphasis was on request BTW -- that's why all that Google Earth, latitude/longitude stuff -- already part of the curriculum). One drawback, in my mind, is that moodle runs on php rather than > python, and I wouldn't like the subtle irony of that situation. The > obvious python product I suppose is plone (plone.org) but that would > have to be heavily customized to make it more like a courseware > system than a generic content management system. Or maybe using php > isn't so bad... Yeah, we're not trying to only use Python for everything under the sun. Use whatever tools are available, don't always reinvent the wheel. I use lots of tools besides Python and am the more powerful for it. Thanks for the useful feedback (just updated my section on generators to include examples of two: one for Pascal's Triangle, another for Fibonaccis, both integral in my DM/CS hybrid). Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060101/f6f6005b/attachment.htm From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Mon Jan 2 00:52:00 2006 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2006 15:52:00 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Brainstorming a new worksheet for 2006 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: kirby urner wrote: > ... > Python: > shell mode > primitive objects vs. collections > Collections: > list > dictionary > string > tuple 'd move string out of Collections. It cannot have elements of a different type (there is no character type), nor is it mutable. Better to be more standard and not call it a collection. Later you can say it behaves in some ways like an ordered list of the individual characters in the string. --Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org From radenski at chapman.edu Mon Jan 2 00:39:18 2006 From: radenski at chapman.edu (Radenski, Atanas) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 15:39:18 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python as a CS1 Language: Summary of Responses Message-ID: I couple of weeks ago I asked for a list of schools that use Python as a CS1/CS2 language. Here is a cumulative list (in alphabetical order) that includes responses from several of you. Canadian Mennonite University (Manitoba, Canada) Centre College (KY, USA) Chapman University (CA, USA) Coventry University (United Kingdom) Georgia Tech (GA, USA) Hofstra University (NY, USA) Lewis and Clark College (OR, USA) Loyola University Chicago (IL, USA) [Python used in a course somewhere between CS0 and CS1] Luther College (IA, USA) Simon Fraser University (BC, Canada) St. Louis University (MO, USA) University of California Irvine (CA, USA) University of Colorado (CO, USA) [Unclear which campus] Wartburg College (IA, USA) Many thanks to all who responded. Further updates will be appreciated. Atanas Atanas Radenski mailto:radenski at chapman.edu http://www.chapman.edu/~radenski/ In this world, time and space are the same -- Richard Wagner ("Parsifal", 1882) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060101/cdd9dc80/attachment.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 2 02:04:04 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 17:04:04 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Brainstorming a new worksheet for 2006 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think because strings are considered *sequences* that they're also legitimately *collections*. http://docs.python.org/lib/typesseq.html i.e. it's hard for me to think an object called a "sequence" wouldn't also be a "collection" (though not all collections are sequences). 's' is a sequence with one element. iter is supposed to take a "collection" as its argument, and strings may be fed to iter. >>> s = iter('a') >>> s.next() 'a' Another author who lumps strings with lists as collections is Dave Kuhlman in Python 101: "Collections are things like strings (arrays of characters), lists, tuples, and dictionaries." http://www.rexx.com/~dkuhlman/python_101/python_101.html Given there's no formal "collection interface" like in Java (a list of methods any collection must support), I suppose the concept is a little hazy around the edges in Python world. "Iterable" is perhaps better defined? SmallTalk definitely considers strings under the umbrella of collections. Currently the page reads: """ Our first practice sessions involved using Python's primitive objects, such as different types of number, plus characters. Then we started looking at collection types, which are designed to organize information in easy-to-use *data structures*. Examples of data structures are: *[a, b, c] # list {a :1, b :2, c :3} # dictionary "abc" # string (a, b, c) # tuple* Using data structures, we're able to save a lot of information in a ready-to-use form. """ It's a little ambiguous, in that I use the word 'character' but as you point out, there's no 'character' type as distinct from 'string' in Python. However, given the 8th grade audience, I think the important thing is just to get letters mixed in with numbers when we speak of 'types of object' (they're used to the idea of integers versus floats, plus one kid brought up complex -- so then we have letters too, and all the stuff you might do with 'em). ...I may reword. Keep those suggestions coming -- useful thinking on my end. Kirby On 1/1/06, Scott David Daniels wrote: > > kirby urner wrote: > > ... > > Python: > > shell mode > > primitive objects vs. collections > > Collections: > > list > > dictionary > > string > > tuple > > 'd move string out of Collections. It cannot have elements of a > different type (there is no character type), nor is it mutable. > Better to be more standard and not call it a collection. Later > you can say it behaves in some ways like an ordered list of the > individual characters in the string. > > --Scott David Daniels > Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060101/dd5ca79c/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jan 10 23:04:02 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:04:02 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] More from Portland Message-ID: I've found younger kids especially (13ish) like the Madlib motif, i.e. fill-in-the-blanks stories. In today's lesson @ Winterhaven, I had kids enter the code below, helped with debugging (I had about 30, each with a Win2000 box), then suggested they come up with more imaginative stories of their own (by changing the code). One student was quite creative with the dictionary keys, putting in things like 'Noun ending in er' (the keys double as prompts in raw_input). On another front, Winterhaven is happy enough with how this beta is going, and gave me a Moodle account to develop local teaching materials. This will assist in the process of spreading Python to other public schools in the area. Plus sometimes we have kids author content, e.g. some of the Moodle-based HTML teaching is actually done by students. The worksheet that went with the code below also got into the 'if __name__ == '__main__': option, for when you want to run at the command line, or in IDLE simply by pressing F5. Until today, we've always imported everything in the IDLE shell. Per my blog entry of earlier today, Oregon is launching some new education initiatives. My Oregon Curriculum Network is well positioned to make some of our dreams come true (plus I'm pretty good at frustrating some of the nightmares others-who-shall-remain-nameless might find it convenient to capitalize on). Kirby """ Worksheet: substituting strings """ story = """ Once upon a time, deep in an ancient jungle, there lived a %(animal)s. This %(animal)s liked to eat %(food)s, but the jungle had very little %(food)s to offer. One day, an explorer found the %(animal)s and discovered it liked %(food)s. The explorer took the %(animal)s back to %(city)s, where it could eat as much %(food)s as it wanted. However, the %(animal)s became homesick, so the explorer brought it back to the jungle, leaving a large supply of %(food)s. The End """ thewords = ['animal', 'food', 'city'] userpicks = {} def tellstory(): """ loop through thewords and get user choices in a dictionary named userpicks, then substitute userpicks into the story """ for word in thewords: userpicks[word] = raw_input("Enter a value for %s: " % word) print story % userpicks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060110/4e9499ae/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 15 16:14:39 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 07:14:39 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? Message-ID: Did anyone else get asked to review this bogus text book by some company in England? I suspect it's a front for Python's competition, as the survey questions ask for all kinds of intelligence, in exchange for reading a couple tawdry chapters and some measly amount of money. Anyway, I sent it back with negative comments, payment refused. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060115/f79cbb31/attachment.htm From dooms at info.ucl.ac.be Sun Jan 15 16:32:26 2006 From: dooms at info.ucl.ac.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?=) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 16:32:26 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43CA6B0A.5060608@info.ucl.ac.be> kirby urner a ?crit : >Did anyone else get asked to review this bogus text book by some company in >England? > Yes, I turned down the offer because I lacked time to do the review on time. I am amused to see it was bogus. Tell us more about it. Best, -- Gr?goire From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 15 17:44:00 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 08:44:00 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: <43CA6B0A.5060608@info.ucl.ac.be> References: <43CA6B0A.5060608@info.ucl.ac.be> Message-ID: Maybe I'll run some checks, but I can't say for sure it was bogus. It was definitely thrown together, and full of misinformation about Python, e.g. leading CS students to think IDLE is Windows-only, and the only way to make your Python experience resemble what you'd get on Linux is by installing Cygwin. No mention of Mono or .NET, no real overview of the history or future of Python (giving the impression the authors were clueless). Anytime the text got at all detailed (technically speaking), it would "gloss over for now" and promise we'd get back to it. But of course the two sample chapters didn't really get back to anything (it's all Tk turtle graphics, like fourth graders might do, plus some obsessing about using Python as a calculator, a parody of the first 10 minutes of Guido's tutorial), plus the survey asks me to do all kinds of homework, like "if this isn't right, please show us how" (given everything is wrong, that's a tall order) -- and for less than I make in an hour working for trusted clients around Portland (like Free Geek or the Hillsboro police). On another front, I see I'm still listed as edu-sig page manager (different from edu-sig list manager). I'm willing to let that be for now. Oregonian reporters have started writing to me, getting more background, and I've pointed to that python.org page in connection with my curriculum prototyping gig at Winterhaven. I've been posting quite a bit to math-thinking-l by the way. I've amused some of them with my quirky writing style (a known quantity here on edu-sig). Feel free to peruse the archive (I'm not suggesting anyone here *needs* to join -- we've already got it all right here when it comes to mixing math and programming, it seems to me (still, I find this other venue a good outlet)). If I had an easy way to edit my page, I might even make a link to it (we could use more snake charmers -- Schemer-dreamers seem over-represented). Here's the archive: http://mail.geneseo.edu/pipermail/math-thinking-l/ (note: Python powered). Finally, I haven't registered for Pycon yet. Prospects seem dim that I'll go. This has nothing to do with any disillusionment with Pycon, which I highly respect and enjoy and get value from. It has more to do with Texas. It's not like I haven't been out of the country before, but even a world traveler like me can't be everywhere at once. We're saving up for a trip to Italy, maybe next winter. Kirby On 1/15/06, Gr?goire Dooms wrote: > > kirby urner a ?crit : > > >Did anyone else get asked to review this bogus text book by some company > in > >England? > > > Yes, I turned down the offer because I lacked time to do the review on > time. > I am amused to see it was bogus. Tell us more about it. > > Best, > -- > Gr?goire > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060115/ca11c527/attachment.htm From ajsiegel at optonline.net Sun Jan 15 19:35:35 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 13:35:35 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Powertoy ;) Message-ID: <43CA95F7.6080804@optonline.com> The relevance is a little Microsoft bashing which I think is always useful in the context of education, and some "why learn to program" from a personal frame of reference. The motive is really just some show-and-tell. Trying to finalize a website for a PyGeo release I had decided that I would rather show some sequences of Povray rendering of PyGeo animations as sequence of stills than as an animated gif. Google on "html slideshow" and find that a "HTML Slide Show Wizard" is among the WindowsXP "powertoys" at http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx The wizard is just that - and one lives with its output - backgrounds, arrow placements, etc.. And what it is doing is so simplistic that it is quite funny that it would be among the "powertoys". But Microsoft counts on a certain kind of audience for its wizardry. Attached is a small Python script with more functionality than the XP powertoy. Sample of slideshow is at: http://pygeo.sourceforge.net/slideshows/multiply_html/1.html Whether the slideshow idea works for this purpose being another matter. Art . -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: makeslides.py Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060115/5e462705/attachment.pot From vceder at canterburyschool.org Mon Jan 16 00:56:28 2006 From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2006 18:56:28 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: References: <43CA6B0A.5060608@info.ucl.ac.be> Message-ID: <43CAE12C.5040604@canterburyschool.org> Actually, I doubt the offer is bogus. Thomson is a pretty large company, and as far as I can tell, the message did actually originate from their UK offices. They are publishers (through a subsidiary) of the " Programming for the Absolute Beginner" series, among other things. Anyway, I agreed to review it, but I haven't actually done much more than read the proposal, which was rather turgidly written, but not horribly wrongheaded, IMHO. I agree that 75 quid is hardly big bucks, and the text may leave something to be desired, but that does't strike me as reason to suspect foul play. On the other hand, I may just be too gullible - that's been suggested before. ;) Vern kirby urner wrote: > > Maybe I'll run some checks, but I can't say for sure it was bogus. > > It was definitely thrown together, and full of misinformation about > Python, e.g. leading CS students to think IDLE is Windows-only, and the > only way to make your Python experience resemble what you'd get on Linux > is by installing Cygwin. No mention of Mono or .NET, no real overview > of the history or future of Python (giving the impression the authors > were clueless). > > Anytime the text got at all detailed (technically speaking), it would > "gloss over for now" and promise we'd get back to it. But of course the > two sample chapters didn't really get back to anything (it's all Tk > turtle graphics, like fourth graders might do, plus some obsessing about > using Python as a calculator, a parody of the first 10 minutes of > Guido's tutorial), plus the survey asks me to do all kinds of homework, > like "if this isn't right, please show us how" (given everything is > wrong, that's a tall order) -- and for less than I make in an hour > working for trusted clients around Portland (like Free Geek or the > Hillsboro police). > > On another front, I see I'm still listed as edu-sig page manager > (different from edu-sig list manager). I'm willing to let that be for > now. Oregonian reporters have started writing to me, getting more > background, and I've pointed to that python.org page > in connection with my curriculum prototyping gig at Winterhaven. > > I've been posting quite a bit to math-thinking-l by the way. I've > amused some of them with my quirky writing style (a known quantity here > on edu-sig). Feel free to peruse the archive (I'm not suggesting anyone > here *needs* to join -- we've already got it all right here when it > comes to mixing math and programming, it seems to me (still, I find this > other venue a good outlet)). > > If I had an easy way to edit my page, I might even make a link to it (we > could use more snake charmers -- Schemer-dreamers seem > over-represented). Here's the archive: > http://mail.geneseo.edu/pipermail/math-thinking-l/ (note: Python powered). > > Finally, I haven't registered for Pycon yet. Prospects seem dim that > I'll go. This has nothing to do with any disillusionment with Pycon, > which I highly respect and enjoy and get value from. It has more to do > with Texas. It's not like I haven't been out of the country before, but > even a world traveler like me can't be everywhere at once. We're saving > up for a trip to Italy, maybe next winter. > > Kirby > > On 1/15/06, *Gr?goire Dooms* > wrote: > > kirby urner a ?crit : > > >Did anyone else get asked to review this bogus text book by some > company in > >England? > > > Yes, I turned down the offer because I lacked time to do the review on > time. > I am amused to see it was bogus. Tell us more about it. > > Best, > -- > Gr?goire > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 From andrew.baisley at gmail.com Mon Jan 16 16:37:33 2006 From: andrew.baisley at gmail.com (Andrew Baisley) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 15:37:33 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> I have just started a Python club after school, presently I have 15 members 14 - 17 yrs old. None of them has any programming experience. We have Python 2.4 installed on our network. I am looking for good ideas/resources to capture their imagination and get them going. Any suggestions gratefully received. Yours, Andrew Baisley Haverstock School Camden London UK -- Yours, Andrew Baisley -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060116/5b6a282d/attachment.html From delza at livingcode.org Mon Jan 16 19:10:27 2006 From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:10:27 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Games are often interesting projects. Paul Prescod has an exercise he uses when teaching introductory Python which might be interesting: 1. Install Pygame[1] and the Solarwolf[2] game. 2. Play with it a bit 3. Open up the python files and explore: it's quite readable code 4. Make some changes which let you "cheat" give yourself powerups, make the enemies slower, etc. 5. Let you imagination go from there. 6. If you prefer puzzle games to action games, try this with Pathological[3] instead. --Dethe [1] http://www.pygame.org/ [2] http://www.pygame.org/shredwheat/solarwolf/ [3] http://pathological.sourceforge.net/ On 16-Jan-06, at 7:37 AM, Andrew Baisley wrote: > I have just started a Python club after school, presently I have 15 > members > 14 - 17 yrs old. > > None of them has any programming experience. > > We have Python 2.4 installed on our network. > > I am looking for good ideas/resources to capture their imagination > and get > them going. > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > Haverstock School > Camden > London > UK > > > -- > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig "We realize you had a choice betwen several bankrupt airlines to fly today, and we thank you for choosing our bankrupt airline." --Delta Airlines pilot From rmalouf at mail.sdsu.edu Mon Jan 16 16:48:46 2006 From: rmalouf at mail.sdsu.edu (Rob Malouf) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 07:48:46 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1450DA66-DA0D-4200-8C3D-C5CA9C7CBE6B@mail.sdsu.edu> Congrats! Take a look at this: http://nltk.sourceforge.net/ --- Rob Malouf Department of Linguistics and Oriental Languages San Diego State University On Jan 16, 2006, at 7:37 AM, Andrew Baisley wrote: > I have just started a Python club after school, presently I have 15 > members 14 - 17 yrs old. > > None of them has any programming experience. > > We have Python 2.4 installed on our network. > > I am looking for good ideas/resources to capture their imagination > and get them going. > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > Haverstock School > Camden > London > UK > > > -- > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From dblank at brynmawr.edu Mon Jan 16 22:56:09 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (Douglas S. Blank) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 16:56:09 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <1450DA66-DA0D-4200-8C3D-C5CA9C7CBE6B@mail.sdsu.edu> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> <1450DA66-DA0D-4200-8C3D-C5CA9C7CBE6B@mail.sdsu.edu> Message-ID: <1137448569.14773.656.camel@mightymouse.brynmawr.edu> I second the recommendation of the Natural Language Toolkit. Python makes a nice shell to play around with some linguistic tools. See also: http://mainline.brynmawr.edu/Courses/cs325/fall2005/ especially some of the materials for a gentle intro to Python and the NLTK by one of my colleagues. You may also like to explore Robotics with Python. See: http://PyroRobotics.org/ We have an all-Python simulator now, so you can get going immediately. Works with Windows and Linux. And maybe MacOS X. It is easy to run, and students with no background (in robotics, AI, or programming) can begin changing programs right off the bat. Whatever you do, have fun! -Doug On Mon, 2006-01-16 at 07:48 -0800, Rob Malouf wrote: > Congrats! Take a look at this: > > http://nltk.sourceforge.net/ > > --- > Rob Malouf > Department of Linguistics and Oriental Languages > San Diego State University > > On Jan 16, 2006, at 7:37 AM, Andrew Baisley wrote: > > > I have just started a Python club after school, presently I have 15 > > members 14 - 17 yrs old. > > > > None of them has any programming experience. > > > > We have Python 2.4 installed on our network. > > > > I am looking for good ideas/resources to capture their imagination > > and get them going. > > > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > > > Yours, > > > > Andrew Baisley > > Haverstock School > > Camden > > London > > UK > > > > > > -- > > Yours, > > > > Andrew Baisley > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -- Douglas S. Blank Computer Science Assistant Professor Bryn Mawr College (610)526-6501 http://cs.brynmawr.edu/~dblank From winstonw at stratolab.com Tue Jan 17 16:27:50 2006 From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:27:50 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If you are using Mac OS X, you might like MakeBot.app, my simplified IDE for teaching. It is a very easy to use interface to Python, easing the learning curve to write your first program. I.e. you can teach them just one line of code and execute it, without having to explain command line interfaces. Not that command line interfaces are bad, just that it's a lot to learn when starting. http://stratolab.com/misc/makebot Also, have you seen the LiveWires game programming package? It builds on top of pygame. http://www.livewires.org.uk/python/lwpackage-dev.html -ww On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:37 AM, Andrew Baisley wrote: > I have just started a Python club after school, presently I have 15 > members 14 - 17 yrs old. > > None of them has any programming experience. > > We have Python 2.4 installed on our network. > > I am looking for good ideas/resources to capture their imagination > and get them going. > > Any suggestions gratefully received. > > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > Haverstock School > Camden > London > UK > > > -- > Yours, > > Andrew Baisley > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060117/355ede61/attachment.htm From ajudkis at verizon.net Wed Jan 18 01:13:36 2006 From: ajudkis at verizon.net (Andy Judkis) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:13:36 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python Message-ID: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> Hi Andrew, I would have a look at RUR-PLE, at Livewires, and also the book Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson. RUR-PLE is great for a little while, it's a little robot on the screen that can be programmed to move around mazes and so forth using a very limited set of instructions. It's quite an eye-opener to kids to see how a few simple constructs can lead to all kinds of unexpected behavior. Go to http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/ I think that the Livewires stuff (http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/pyBiblio/livewires/course/) is a good follow-on to RUR-PLE. It's very well organized as a Python module built on top of pygame plus a set of instructional material and game-oriented challenges. I found that even these simple challenges are too hard for my kids (15 and 16 years old) to understand without a lot of additional hand-holding. Beware of assuming that things that are obvious to those of us who are experienced programmers are going to be obvious to kids who've never programmed at all. The idea that someone with no previous exposure will find Python "readable" seems pretty optimistic to me -- I'm sure there are kids like that but I haven't had any in my classes. Something as trivial as for val in range(10,0,-1): print val print "Blastoff!" is not self-explanatory to normal people! We're about to start a Python club of our own here at my school, perhaps we can trade notes, maybe have our kids email one another? A bunch of the kids here are excited by the prospect of a regional programming competition for high-schoolers at New Jersey Institute of Technology (http://cs.njit.edu/contest/) It's limited to Java and C++ this year but they said they'd consider expanding that list for next year. . . Regards, Andy Judkis Academy of Allied Health and Science Neptune, NJ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060117/05cf6db8/attachment.html From dblank at brynmawr.edu Wed Jan 18 01:21:36 2006 From: dblank at brynmawr.edu (dblank at brynmawr.edu) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:21:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> Message-ID: <48071.68.34.179.225.1137543696.squirrel@webmail.brynmawr.edu> > Hi Andrew, [snip] > Beware of assuming that things that are obvious to those of us who are > experienced programmers are going to be obvious to kids who've never > programmed at all. The idea that someone with no previous exposure will > find Python "readable" seems pretty optimistic to me -- I'm sure there are > kids like that but I haven't had any in my classes. Something as trivial > as > > for val in range(10,0,-1): > print val > print "Blastoff!" > > is not self-explanatory to normal people! Or even non-normal people, like programmers! Of course, you'd start with: for val in [10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]: print val print "Blastoff!" Have fun, -Doug > Andy Judkis > Academy of Allied Health and Science > Neptune, NJ_______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > From winstonw at stratolab.com Wed Jan 18 04:12:57 2006 From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 22:12:57 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> Message-ID: Yes, Michael Dawson's book is great. I've read it and it's perfect for beginners of high-school age since it focuses on programming games, rather than accounting packages. -winston On Jan 17, 2006, at 7:13 PM, Andy Judkis wrote: > Hi Andrew, > > I would have a look at RUR-PLE, at Livewires, and also the book > Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson. > ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060117/7ab47aff/attachment.html From wescpy at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 08:19:47 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (w chun) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:19:47 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <78b3a9580601172319x225d542fuaebcd8c3126bad69@mail.gmail.com> if it's the thomson book, i don't think it's a fraud, but i don't think it will be received well. i had to negotiate for a higher rate in exchange for "my opinion." i mentioned the shortcomings the book had, and gave them *my* idea of what such a book should be like, and just pointed them to "Core Python." :-) then they conveniently forgot to pay me..., no wait, it was an "error in the accounting dept," which they fixed, and finally sent across the pond. the main problem is that they are so many good books on the market now, that i don't see any reason why anyone should buy it much less publish it. cheers, -wesley From wescpy at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 08:26:47 2006 From: wescpy at gmail.com (w chun) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 23:26:47 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] ANN: upcoming Python course (student/teacher discount) Message-ID: <78b3a9580601172326p7be782fasb4e30e0eb4e1fef9@mail.gmail.com> folks, i'm leading another intense introduction to Python here in the San Francisco Bay Area. it will be close to the SF airport, and those traveling will have access to a free shuttle from the airport to the hotel. for those who are local, there is closeby BART and CalTrain access, making it fairly reachable from most parts of the Bay. it's Feb 1-3, 2006, and 9a-5p each day. the course fee is $1095. students, teachers, those with financial hardship, and repeat students will get a 50% discount. see the FAQ for details. feel free to forward this to anyone you know who may be interested. there are 9-10 more seats left in the class. a follow-on advanced course is coming in May 2006. also hope to see some of you at PyCon. more info available at http://cyberwebconsulting.com ... this is the only time you will get this announcement from me. thanks, -wesley From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 16:38:39 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 07:38:39 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580601172319x225d542fuaebcd8c3126bad69@mail.gmail.com> References: <78b3a9580601172319x225d542fuaebcd8c3126bad69@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Not to belabor the issue, but for this to be a bogus or scam operation doesn't necessarily implicate this publisher of high repute, with whom I've made my peace. The authors submitting this draft didn't arrive with much bio in my inbox, i.e. I know nothing that would certify them as Pythonista insiders, so if they were plants, here to discredit Python by saying IDLE is Windows only, there's nothing Thomson has to do about it, except watch. Anyway, I don't think there's much purpose to all this paranoia (and yes, I'm the one who stirred it up in the first place). I usually rely on Arthur to come out with the dark motives hypotheses. Now we know that, left to my own devices, I'm able to auto-generate same. Kirby On 1/17/06, w chun wrote: > > if it's the thomson book, i don't think it's a fraud, but i don't > think it will be received well. i had to negotiate for a higher rate > in exchange for "my opinion." i mentioned the shortcomings the book > had, and gave them *my* idea of what such a book should be like, and > just pointed them to "Core Python." :-) then they conveniently > forgot to pay me..., no wait, it was an "error in the accounting > dept," which they fixed, and finally sent across the pond. the main > problem is that they are so many good books on the market now, that i > don't see any reason why anyone should buy it much less publish it. > > cheers, > -wesley > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060118/78cc931f/attachment.html From ajsiegel at optonline.net Wed Jan 18 18:26:10 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:26:10 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002501c61c54$4666f160$1702a8c0@BasementDell> Anyway, I don't think there's much purpose to all this paranoia (and yes, I'm the one who stirred it up in the first place). I usually rely on Arthur to come out with the dark motives hypotheses. Kirby True. Sometimes I even get the feeling that I am being dissed on obscure discussion groups in the course of obscure threads in which I am uninvolved ;) And in html no less. Isn't it better to send plain text? Art -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060118/8e9fd907/attachment.html From andre.roberge at gmail.com Wed Jan 18 21:28:29 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:28:29 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Introduction to object and "dot" notation: feedback wanted Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, I am busy writing lessons for rur-ple (I noticed it's been kindly mentioned here recently) and thought, in spite of the "flack" following the request received by some of you for a book review ;-) , that I would ask for feedback about an introduction I have written to OOP and the "dot" notation. [I am *not* planning to ask feedbacks on all the lessons ;-)] Context 1. The set-up of rur-ple is a world in which a robot can be made to accomplish certain tasks. Initially, the "function-based" approach is used to instruct the robot to do its stuff. For example, a simple program might be as follows: if next_to_a_beeper(): pick_beeper move() turn_off() Context 2. The preceding lessons would have covered python data types, variables, functions, and most python keywords, all used in the context of the robot world or at the interpreter. And now... here's the lesson which you are welcome to trash, criticize, shoot down in flames or ignore! Andr? P.S. html formatting rudely removed from what follows... =================================== __Object-Oriented Programming: "dot" notation__ We are going to learn about a modern programming style called Object-Oriented Programming [OOP]. Before we start writing, we will first learn how to read and understand the notation used. ------------- __All in a dog's day__ Fido is a dog. During a typical day, he does various actions: he eats, runs, sleeps, etc. Here's how an object-oriented programmer might write this. Fido = Dog() Fido.eats() Fido.runs() Fido.sleeps() In addition, Fido has various qualities or attributes. He is tall (for a dog) and his hair is black. Here's how the programmer might write the same things. Fido.size = "tall" Fido.hair_colour = "black" In the object-oriented language, we have the following: = Dog is an example of a class (of objects). = Fido is an instance (or particular object) in the Dog class. = eats(), runs() and sleeps() are methods of the Dog class; 'methods' are essentially like 'functions' which we saw before (the only difference is that they belong in a given class/instance). = size and hair_colour are attributes of a given instance/object = Objects can also have other objects that belong to them, each with their own methods or attributes: Fido.tail.wags() Fido.tail.type = "bushy" Fido.left_front_paw.moves() Fido.head.mouth.teeth.canine.hurt() We'll see how this works later. For now, let's see how Reeborg can use the "dot" notation. -------------- __A used robot get his name__ So far, all the programs we wrote instructing Reeborg to accomplish tasks have been written without using the Object-Oriented Programming (OOP) notation. Let's start with a simple example. First, we start by having an empty world, removing the robot if needed by pressing the add/remove robot button Now, you might remember that RUR in RUR-PLE stands for: Roberge's *Used Robot*; the robots we use are old and faulty. [We will learn how to fix them later.] So, we will create our first instance of the UsedRobot class and name it, appropriately, Reeborg! We will then instruct it to take one step and then turn itself off. Reeborg = UsedRobot() Reeborg.move() Reeborg.turn_off() Try it! ------------------------ __More robots__ Just like functions can have arguments, methods can too. Start with an empty world and try the following: # add robot at origin [by default], but with more interesting colour Larry = UsedRobot(colour='blue') # second robot, default colour (grey) facing North Curly = UsedRobot(1, 3, 'N') # Third robot carries beepers Moe = UsedRobot(1, 2, beepers=9, colour='yellow') .for i in range(3): . Larry.move() . Curly.move() . Moe.move() Curly.turn_left() Larry.move() Curly.move # Turning off any one robot ends the program Moe.turn_off() Robots come in a variety of colours: grey (by default), yellow, blue, light blue, green and purple. They can be positioned anywhere in the world (with more than one robot at the same intersection), face any of the four directions ('E' [by default], 'N', 'S', 'W') or carry a number of beepers from the start. Note that there are two named arguments (beepers and colour) and three unnamed ones (street, avenue and orientation). The two named arguments must appear last (their order may be interchanged); the three unnamed arguments, if they appear, must appear in the same order. Thus, if we want to specify an orientation (say 'N'), we must first specify a street and an avenue so that the orientation is the third argument. The following are allowed declarations: R1 = UsedRobot(2) # created at 2nd street, 1st avenue, facing East R2 = UsedRobot(2, 3) # 2nd street, 3rd avenue, facing East R3 = UsedRobot(3, 1, 'S') # 3rd steet, 1st avenue, facing South R4 = UsedRobot(5, colour='yellow') # 5th street, 1st avenue, facing East The following declarations are not allowed: R5 = UsedRobot(3, 'S') # orientation is not 3rd argument R6 = UsedRobot(colour='yellow', 5) # unnamed argument listed after named one ========= end of lesson ========== From kirby.urner at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 01:04:05 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 16:04:05 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Introduction to object and "dot" notation: feedback wanted In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> References: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Just a quick note of approval re use of Dog class. You might want to lowercase fido, or not. I'm used to reserving capitals for the class definition, keeping all instances lower, but of course there's nothing much beyond taste to influence such decisions about style. Perhaps more should be included in standard CS readings about coding style in general -- like, some coders prefer variable width fonts in their text editor, whereas I'm an old school fixed width coder. Plus I support your approach of focusing on dot notation as a critical step (my approach as well). I favor a first pass using existing Python objects, already dot-ready (e.g. lists and dictionaries), then an interlude defining functions, using the learned collection types, then back to dot notation again, but this time rolling your own classes (with metaclasses in some future pass). Possible mnemonic: yourdot-funk-mydot. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060118/72941fe3/attachment.html From andre.roberge at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 03:23:42 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:23:42 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Introduction to object and "dot" notation: feedback wanted In-Reply-To: References: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601181823l350bddbbxe23d4338cf6955a@mail.gmail.com> On 1/18/06, kirby urner wrote: > > Just a quick note of approval re use of Dog class. You might want to > lowercase fido, or not. I'm used to reserving capitals for the class > definition, keeping all instances lower, but of course there's nothing much > beyond taste to influence such decisions about style. I thought about doing that ... but, then I thought I had been talking about Reeborg (with a capital letter) all the time that it would look artificial to suddenly use a lowercase letter. At the very least I could put a note about the standard convention ... but I wonder if this would be seen more as a distraction at this stage...(me ambivalent?... maybe I am...) > > Plus I support your approach of focusing on dot notation as a critical step > (my approach as well). :-) .... I realised after reading the lesson I wrote that I never explained in words about how the "dot" connected an attribute/method to an instance - I just showed it. Should I repeat it in words? > > I favor a first pass using existing Python objects, already dot-ready (e.g. > lists and dictionaries), then an interlude defining functions, using the > learned collection types, then back to dot notation again, but this time > rolling your own classes (with metaclasses in some future pass). > Good idea... I have not written the lesson about lists (or any other sequences yet) and just realised that I will have to introduce the dot notation then (to show, at the very least, how to append items to a list.) Perhaps I can modify your usual approach: introduce the dot notation earlier (pretty much with the lesson I submitted for comments) but with a mention that we will learn more about classes later. Then, in the lesson immediately following it, introduce lists AND lists methods. As for functions... The way rur-ple is structured, the first Python keyword introduced is "def" to define new functions in the robot world. Then it's if, else, elif, pass, not, while, ... all of this before even introducing numbers, strings and variables. > Possible mnemonic: yourdot-funk-mydot. I wouldn't repeat that in front of my kids for fear of being misunderstood ;-) > > Kirby > Andr? From ajsiegel at optonline.net Thu Jan 19 16:47:26 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 10:47:26 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Parody text book? In-Reply-To: <002501c61c54$4666f160$1702a8c0@BasementDell> References: <002501c61c54$4666f160$1702a8c0@BasementDell> Message-ID: <43CFB48E.30206@optonline.com> > Anyway, I don't think there's much purpose to all this paranoia (and > yes, I'm the one who stirred it up in the first place). I usually > rely on Arthur to come out with the dark motives hypotheses. > > Kirby Of course there is another way to look at it. Money, prestige, influence are the *light* motives. Real education is the dark motive. ;) Art From peter at mapledesign.co.uk Thu Jan 19 20:16:08 2006 From: peter at mapledesign.co.uk (Peter Bowyer) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 19:16:08 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Introduction to object and "dot" notation: feedback wanted In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.co m> References: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20060119191306.02337e30@127.0.0.1> At 20:28 18/01/2006, Andre Roberge wrote: >Fido.left_front_paw.moves() I have a query about this call. The way the left_front_paw moves is not going to be very different from right_front_paw or the back paws. Now if it's identical, in a simplified model, does not Fido.moves(Fido.left_front_paw) make more sense? It is harder to understand, and I'm not happy with the argument to the method, but it promotes code reuse. Peter -- In the beginning was the word, and the word was Content-type: text/plain. From andre.roberge at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 20:44:44 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:44:44 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Introduction to object and "dot" notation: feedback wanted In-Reply-To: <6.2.3.4.0.20060119191306.02337e30@127.0.0.1> References: <7528bcdd0601181228v6c9d5b8aq9ba12bd124ad9352@mail.gmail.com> <6.2.3.4.0.20060119191306.02337e30@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601191144n1ba49178td2b8dabd6e0964f4@mail.gmail.com> On 1/19/06, Peter Bowyer wrote: > At 20:28 18/01/2006, Andre Roberge wrote: > >Fido.left_front_paw.moves() > > I have a query about this call. The way the left_front_paw moves is > not going to be very different from right_front_paw or the back > paws. Now if it's identical, in a simplified model, does not > Fido.moves(Fido.left_front_paw) > make more sense? It is harder to understand, and I'm not happy with > the argument to the method, but it promotes code reuse. > > Peter Since this is intended to be the first introduction to the dot notation, I think it would be a bit more confusing then necessary. What I want to illustrate is the "chaining" that can occur with using the dot notation. It is more the notation, than the underlying implementation that I want to introduce at this point. In term of promoting code reuse, my first inclination would be to have something like Fido.left_front_paw = Paw() # Paw() is a class, with a move() method Fido.right_front_paw = Paw() instead of having a method argument. [One might argue that Fido.move() has to imply that each individual paws must move, hence your observation about having it as a method argument instead ... hmmmm... ] I'll have to think about it further and I thank you for your suggestions. Andr? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 21:12:09 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 12:12:09 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Some fun curriculum writing (Urner) Message-ID: Probably not everyone will find the snippet below as funny as I do. It might help if you've seen Disney's version of 'The Jungle Book' which includes this Kaa character. This is my Kaa impersonation. There's no need to reveal more context, except by way of background, they've invited Alan Kay to be a part of this project. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay Here's the snippet: """ PS: from a PR (public relations) standpoint, please be aware that although Python is free and open source, some people find snake imagery unsettling (the Monty Python association is wearing thin with time), plus CP4E or Computer Programming for Everybody has a history of DARPA funding, i.e. there's some funny business with the military that, combined with the snake bit, means a lot of people just feel better about Perl or Ruby. There's nothing I can do about that, really (history is history). I think pairing Python with Squeak is a pretty good idea. """ Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060119/49850664/attachment.htm From delza at livingcode.org Thu Jan 19 23:23:24 2006 From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:23:24 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 17-Jan-06, at 7:27 AM, Winston Wolff wrote: > If you are using Mac OS X, you might like MakeBot.app, my > simplified IDE for teaching. It is a very easy to use interface to > Python, easing the learning curve to write your first program. > I.e. you can teach them just one line of code and execute it, > without having to explain command line interfaces. Not that > command line interfaces are bad, just that it's a lot to learn when > starting. > > http://stratolab.com/misc/makebot MakeBot looks interesting, but I don't see any documentation for it. The web page claims it was inspired by DrawBot, but that DrawBot is specialized for only 2D images, which implies that MakeBot does more, but doesn't say what that more is. Sprites? Animation? 3D? Sound? I'd love to learn more about it. --Dethe "I started with nothing, and I still have most of it." -- Steven Wright From kirby.urner at gmail.com Thu Jan 19 23:24:28 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 14:24:28 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Some fun curriculum writing (Urner) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's a well written Kaa page: http://disney.go.com/vault/archives/villains/kaa/kaa.html And then there's this entry in my blog: http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2006/01/kaa-meets-tiger.html Maybe we'll be seeing some good Kaa snippets in Google Video one of these days soon. Kirby On 1/19/06, kirby urner wrote: > > Probably not everyone will find the snippet below as funny as I do. It > might help if you've seen Disney's version of 'The Jungle Book' which > includes this Kaa character. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060119/bd6f0b73/attachment.html From lac at strakt.com Fri Jan 20 01:51:42 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:51:42 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton of "Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:43:05 +0100." <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> References: <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200601200051.k0K0pgX3016154@theraft.strakt.com> Awake for over 40 hours, no kidding that I cannot type .... In a message of Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:43:05 +0100, Laura Creighton writes: >Ok, now that EuroPython is no longer in my home town in G?teborg, I am >This means that I have only done a minimal job of getting US US as in You and Me and everybody else on this list. Not the USA. Not that we _mind_ American visitors, just that was not what I meant when I capitalised 'us'. >the Europython we want. skip >change I can saddle some of you with work there, and this will >add to my prestige as a 'getter of things done'. I guess I really must want some change, but it was CHANCE that I meant to write there. ok, take care all, Laura > From lac at strakt.com Fri Jan 20 01:43:05 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 01:43:05 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 Message-ID: <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> Ok, now that EuroPython is no longer in my home town in Göteborg, I am more free to organise things around here. (The last 2 years I have been more involved with making sure that everything works ok, in the way that a co-chairman can only be.) This means that I have only done a minimal job of getting US the Europython we want. This year I will have more time. Ok gang, its our conference. We have a budget to invite some people we like ... and Kirby, I already got the word that we want you to come again and explain what you are doing now .... I would like to know who of you are already planning on coming, who are thinking of it, and what we can do to get more python educators and 'the rest of us' to the conference. I do not know whether it is better to discuss this here or on the Europython mailing list. _Here- has the advantage that I get all the people I am interested in, with the disadvantage that I also get those as are not interested. _There_ has the the advantage as we can shame the rest into more and better action, which is competition at its best. Also there is some change I can saddle some of you with work there, and this will add to my prestige as a 'getter of things done'. But overall, I think it is better to stay here for now. If too many non-European edu people complain we can reconsider. Ok gang. It is our conference. Brainstorming time. What would we like? how do we get it? we do not even need to follow the 'tracks and talks' requirement. Whatever we want is on the table for the simple reason we want it. Let the open brainstorming begin. Laura From ajsiegel at optonline.net Fri Jan 20 02:36:06 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:36:06 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <000001c61d61$e1fb8bf0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> > -----Original Message----- > From: edu-sig-bounces+ajsiegel=optonline.net at python.org > [mailto:edu-sig-bounces+ajsiegel=optonline.net at python.org] On > Behalf Of Laura Creighton > Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:43 PM > To: edu-sig at python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 > > Ok, now that EuroPython is no longer in my home town in > Gvteborg, I am more free to organise things around here. > (The last 2 years I have been more involved with making sure > that everything works ok, in the way that a co-chairman can only be.) > > This means that I have only done a minimal job of getting US > the Europython we want. > > This year I will have more time. > > Ok gang, its our conference. We have a budget to invite some > people we like ... and Kirby Glad there was more to the sentence. ;) Art From lac at strakt.com Fri Jan 20 03:43:28 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 03:43:28 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: Message from Arthur of "Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:36:06 EST." <000001c61d61$e1fb8bf0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> References: <000001c61d61$e1fb8bf0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> Message-ID: <200601200243.k0K2hSss021158@theraft.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 19 Jan 2006 20:36:06 EST, Arthur writes: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: edu-sig-bounces+ajsiegel=optonline.net at python.org >> [mailto:edu-sig-bounces+ajsiegel=optonline.net at python.org] On >> Behalf Of Laura Creighton >> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 7:43 PM >> To: edu-sig at python.org >> Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 >> >> Ok, now that EuroPython is no longer in my home town in >> Gvteborg, I am more free to organise things around here. >> (The last 2 years I have been more involved with making sure >> that everything works ok, in the way that a co-chairman can only be.) >> >> This means that I have only done a minimal job of getting US >> the Europython we want. >> >> This year I will have more time. >> >> Ok gang, its our conference. We have a budget to invite some >> people we like ... and Kirby > >Glad there was more to the sentence. ;) > >Art I am never going to live this down, I know it, I know it I know it,. Kirby, forgive me. Laura > From dooms at info.ucl.ac.be Fri Jan 20 13:16:03 2006 From: dooms at info.ucl.ac.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?=) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:16:03 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 Message-ID: <43D0D483.8060409@info.ucl.ac.be> Laura Creighton a ?crit : >I would like to know who of you are already planning on >coming, who are thinking of it, and what we can do to get >more python educators and 'the rest of us' to the conference. >I do not know whether it is better to discuss this here or on >the Europython mailing list. > > I have been using Python for 3 years for one of our AI courses at UCLouvain. The software is based on Peter Norvig's AIMA python code, but I've also developped a few puzzles and games for weekly assignments. This course also features an agent development contest where groups of students compete in a championship. I am considering preparing a talk about this experience. All the best, -- Gr?goire Dooms From ajsiegel at optonline.net Fri Jan 20 14:56:13 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 08:56:13 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: <200601200243.k0K2hSss021158@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <000701c61dc9$47094660$1702a8c0@BasementDell> > -----Original Message----- > From: Laura Creighton [mailto:lac at strakt.com] > >> Ok gang, its our conference. We have a budget to invite > some people > >> we like ... and Kirby > > > >Glad there was more to the sentence. ;) > > > >Art > > > I am never going to live this down, > I know it, I know it I know it,. > Come-on - I have more than this to live down on a bi-weekly basis. It's practically policy here. Art From winstonw at stratolab.com Fri Jan 20 16:12:19 2006 From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 10:12:19 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7A85D272-428D-4246-B6BA-5103263FBDC7@stratolab.com> Indeed, I haven't written any documentation since I have received no feedback that anybody is actually using it. Although that's probably and chicken and egg situation. What I liked most about DrawBot was that you could write a few lines and the click RUN to see your program run. That was much easier to teach than BBedit for editing and a separate Terminal window to run the program. I also looked at IDLE for this purpose, but I didn't like it. Regarding it's capabilities, I wanted to do things beyond 2D scalable graphics, so I decided that I would take OUT the graphics stuff, since that is readily available in any number of libraries. I developed my own graphics library, but later found it to be similar to LiveWires. So what MakeBot is useful for is as an editor. If doing graphics, import the graphics library of your choice. -ww On Jan 19, 2006, at 5:23 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > On 17-Jan-06, at 7:27 AM, Winston Wolff wrote: > >> If you are using Mac OS X, you might like MakeBot.app, my >> simplified IDE for teaching. It is a very easy to use interface >> to Python, easing the learning curve to write your first program. >> I.e. you can teach them just one line of code and execute it, >> without having to explain command line interfaces. Not that >> command line interfaces are bad, just that it's a lot to learn >> when starting. >> >> http://stratolab.com/misc/makebot > > MakeBot looks interesting, but I don't see any documentation for > it. The web page claims it was inspired by DrawBot, but that > DrawBot is specialized for only 2D images, which implies that > MakeBot does more, but doesn't say what that more is. Sprites? > Animation? 3D? Sound? > > I'd love to learn more about it. > > --Dethe > > "I started with nothing, and I still have most of it." -- Steven > Wright > ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060120/4c784690/attachment.html From andre.roberge at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 16:48:53 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:48:53 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <7A85D272-428D-4246-B6BA-5103263FBDC7@stratolab.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> <7A85D272-428D-4246-B6BA-5103263FBDC7@stratolab.com> Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601200748j23f66e5eg8417c647f0a24b53@mail.gmail.com> On 1/20/06, Winston Wolff wrote: > Indeed, I haven't written any documentation since I have received no > feedback that anybody is actually using it. Although that's probably and > chicken and egg situation. > > What I liked most about DrawBot was that you could write a few lines and the > click RUN to see your program run. That was much easier to teach than > BBedit for editing and a separate Terminal window to run the program. I > also looked at IDLE for this purpose, but I didn't like it. > This looks like a very interesting idea. I have looked at the screenshot on your website and have a few questions: 1. How specific to the Mac is it? From your website, it seems to be an absolute requirement. Is the source code available? [I am a Windows user.] 2. I noticed a "stop" button. I'm curious as to how you have implemented this functionality - as well as the possibility to "drop down" to the interpreter level at the end of a script. After seeing it, I would like to add this capability in my own programming learning environment. Andr? From winstonw at stratolab.com Fri Jan 20 17:37:40 2006 From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:37:40 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601200748j23f66e5eg8417c647f0a24b53@mail.gmail.com> References: <421d38c70601160718ra9e5a31r@mail.gmail.com> <421d38c70601160737k34ca0f80y@mail.gmail.com> <7A85D272-428D-4246-B6BA-5103263FBDC7@stratolab.com> <7528bcdd0601200748j23f66e5eg8417c647f0a24b53@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Andr?- 90% of the program is the user interface. The actually running of the program is just spawning a Python process. I do a little bit of magic to allow multi-file programs that I discuss below, but basically it's just popen(). Regarding the "stop" button, that is just killing the process. And the ">>>" button, is just adding the command line option to Python: -i : inspect interactively after running script Regarding the magic I do before running a script, if there exits a file named main.py in the current or parent folder, then that is run instead of the current script. And the first argument on the command line is the current script's file name. This allows me to write multi-file programs, but it also allows me to do funny things like pre-load certain libraries and add them to __built_in__ or to execute the user's script in a testing framework which I do for a tutorial. I haven't made these things ready for release due to time, but having the main.py file that can "override" the execution of these scripts turned out to be very handy. -winston On Jan 20, 2006, at 10:48 AM, Andre Roberge wrote: > > This looks like a very interesting idea. I have looked at the > screenshot on your website and have a few questions: > 1. How specific to the Mac is it? From your website, it seems to be > an absolute requirement. Is the source code available? [I am a > Windows user.] > 2. I noticed a "stop" button. I'm curious as to how you have > implemented this functionality - as well as the possibility to "drop > down" to the interpreter level at the end of a script. After seeing > it, I would like to add this capability in my own programming learning > environment. > > Andr? ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060120/5b007d07/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Fri Jan 20 20:47:10 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:47:10 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: <000701c61dc9$47094660$1702a8c0@BasementDell> References: <200601200243.k0K2hSss021158@theraft.strakt.com> <000701c61dc9$47094660$1702a8c0@BasementDell> Message-ID: I'm going to post to that other math/CS list now. This thread has remained entertaining. Kirby On 1/20/06, Arthur wrote: > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Laura Creighton [mailto:lac at strakt.com] > > >> Ok gang, its our conference. We have a budget to invite > > some people > > >> we like ... and Kirby > > > > > >Glad there was more to the sentence. ;) > > > > > >Art > > > > > > I am never going to live this down, > > I know it, I know it I know it,. > > > > Come-on - I have more than this to live down on a bi-weekly basis. > > It's practically policy here. > > Art > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060120/5d1d25a1/attachment.htm From ajsiegel at optonline.net Mon Jan 23 02:18:17 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:18:17 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement Message-ID: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> I will going out with the PyGeo1.0 alpha release within the next few days. There has been about as much attention to detail connecting to this release as I am capable. Tested on WindowsXP with Python2.4 and ubuntu Linux and Python2.3. Nonetheless, there is the having left home and forgotten something important, I'm not sure what, kind of feeling.. My intention is to promote PyGeo mostly outside the Python community. And if I have any success it will be the first exposure by some folks to Python. So it would nice if I got it nice. The site is http://pygeo.sourceforge.net with downloads available on sourceforge. My impression of how impressions are formed on projects such as this is on the weakest link in the chain So frank feedback from anyone willing to take some time and have a look is appreciated. Art From dooms at info.ucl.ac.be Mon Jan 23 10:21:08 2006 From: dooms at info.ucl.ac.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?=) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:21:08 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: <200601220038.k0M0cqpM012805@theraft.strakt.com> References: <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> <43D0D438.2040908@info.ucl.ac.be> <200601220038.k0M0cqpM012805@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D4A004.4030304@info.ucl.ac.be> Laura Creighton a ?crit : >In a message of Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:14:48 +0100, Gr?goire Dooms writes: > > >>I have been using Python for 3 years for one of our AI courses at >>UCLouvain. The software is based on Peter Norvig's AIMA python code, but >>I've also developped a few puzzles and games for weekly assignments. >>This course also features an agent development contest where groups of >>students compete in a championship. >>I am considering preparing a talk about this experience. >> >>All the best, >>-- >>Gr?goire Dooms >> >> >Sounds cool. Do you compete with other schools? > > No, not yet :-). This competition is one assignment out of 7 (of a 5 ECTS course). I am thinking of giving students the agents of the year before to see if they can come up with ways to enhance the results. This will be for next year. Is there a CFP for Europython ? What is the deadline for submitting a paper/talk ? Best, -- Gr?goire From lac at strakt.com Mon Jan 23 18:09:19 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:09:19 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Europython Monday 3 July to Wednesday 5 July 2006 In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?= of "Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:21:08 +0100." <43D4A004.4030304@info.ucl.ac.be> References: <200601200043.k0K0h5nN015905@theraft.strakt.com> <43D0D438.2040908@info.ucl.ac.be> <200601220038.k0M0cqpM012805@theraft.strakt.com> <43D4A004.4030304@info.ucl.ac.be> Message-ID: <200601231709.k0NH9JF8022377@theraft.strakt.com> In a message of Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:21:08 +0100, Gr?goire Dooms writes: >Laura Creighton a ?crit : > >>In a message of Fri, 20 Jan 2006 13:14:48 +0100, Gr?goire Dooms writes: >> >> >>>I have been using Python for 3 years for one of our AI courses at >>>UCLouvain. The software is based on Peter Norvig's AIMA python code, bu >t >>>I've also developped a few puzzles and games for weekly assignments. >>>This course also features an agent development contest where groups of >>>students compete in a championship. >>>I am considering preparing a talk about this experience. >>> >>>All the best, >>>-- >>>Gr?goire Dooms >>> >>> >>Sounds cool. Do you compete with other schools? >> >> >No, not yet :-). This competition is one assignment out of 7 (of a 5 >ECTS course). >I am thinking of giving students the agents of the year before to see if >they can come up with ways to enhance the results. >This will be for next year. > >Is there a CFP for Europython ? What is the deadline for submitting a >paper/talk ? Not yet, and not set yet. Laura > > >Best, >-- >Gr?goire > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 23 22:36:27 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 13:36:27 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> Message-ID: Thanks Arthur. I'll be taking a test drive soon and will provide some feedback, probably on edu-sig. More engaging feedback will likely come from people who know projective geometry, its principal theorems, a lot better than I do. So don't hold your breath for my remarks to be breathtaking in their insightfulness. I doubt they will be. Kirby On 1/22/06, Arthur wrote: > > > I will going out with the PyGeo1.0 alpha release within the next few days. > > There has been about as much attention to detail connecting to this > release as I am capable. > > Tested on WindowsXP with Python2.4 and ubuntu Linux and Python2.3. > > Nonetheless, there is the having left home and forgotten something > important, I'm not sure what, kind of feeling.. > > My intention is to promote PyGeo mostly outside the Python community. > And if I have any success it will be the first exposure by some folks to > Python. > > So it would nice if I got it nice. > > The site is > > http://pygeo.sourceforge.net > > with downloads available on sourceforge. > > My impression of how impressions are formed on projects such as this is > on the weakest link in the chain > > So frank feedback from anyone willing to take some time and have a look > is appreciated. > > Art > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060123/b786e178/attachment.html From ajsiegel at optonline.net Mon Jan 23 23:24:33 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:24:33 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> Message-ID: <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> kirby urner wrote: > Thanks Arthur. I'll be taking a test drive soon and will provide some > feedback, probably on edu-sig. More engaging feedback will likely > come from people who know projective geometry, its principal theorems, > a lot better than I do. So don't hold your breath for my remarks to > be breathtaking in their insightfulness. I doubt they will be. > > Kirby Thanks for any effort you undertake. And its not so much the substantive side of things I am asking about. PyGeo either will or will not hold its own on that score. More concerned about the overall impression being made. Is the web-site strong enough / appropriate to generate interest from folks (e.g. math educators) who have some focus on the subject matter related to PyGeo. Is the install easy enough for someone not Python literate? Are the examples illustrative of the functionality, enticing. I guess all those questions are matters of degree. And at this point I am mostly interested in any show stoppers you stumble on. Art p.s. Amazing how much goes into the release of something like this. To me, just getting a little sourceforge literate was a chore - SSH keys and such. Kind of humbling, in that there is so much of this going on - who are these people that knock this stuff out? OTOH, I would say that 98% of the potential audience for something like PyGeo is knocked out just by the fact it requires one to operate in an environment that is not primarily GUI based. And for most people computing, and interacting with a GUI are synonymous - and as far as they think they should need to go. Quite a divide. Art > On 1/22/06, *Arthur* > wrote: > > > I will going out with the PyGeo1.0 alpha release within the next > few days. > > There has been about as much attention to detail connecting to this > release as I am capable. > > Tested on WindowsXP with Python2.4 and ubuntu Linux and Python2.3. > > Nonetheless, there is the having left home and forgotten something > important, I'm not sure what, kind of feeling.. > > My intention is to promote PyGeo mostly outside the Python community. > And if I have any success it will be the first exposure by some > folks to > Python. > > So it would nice if I got it nice. > > The site is > > http://pygeo.sourceforge.net > > with downloads available on sourceforge. > > My impression of how impressions are formed on projects such as > this is > on the weakest link in the chain > > So frank feedback from anyone willing to take some time and have a > look > is appreciated. > > Art > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 00:07:31 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 15:07:31 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> Message-ID: > > Quite a divide. > > Art Yes. I've overheard supposedly well-educated lawyers expressing some amazement at the thought that Microsoft Word actually had to be "written" in some sense. What could that mean? Their imaginations boggle. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060123/4c74ee65/attachment.html From ajsiegel at optonline.net Tue Jan 24 01:09:43 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:09:43 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> Message-ID: <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> kirby urner wrote: > > Quite a divide. > > Art > > > Yes. I've overheard supposedly well-educated lawyers expressing some > amazement at the thought that Microsoft Word actually had to be > "written" in some sense. What could that mean? Their imaginations > boggle. > > Kirby I think we agree that the term "well-educated" needs some redefinition. but not sure we agree too much about how, and redefined to what. Art From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 02:30:43 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:30:43 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601231730s1e0c6f61o67077d806a7a16be@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/06, Arthur wrote: > [Snip] Hi Arthur, I'm documenting the process as I go along, in a nitpicking fashion. Also, I'm doing it as someone who is just interested in getting a quick look at the program, more out of curiosity. My experience will *not* mirror that of someone interested in teaching or doing research in geometry. *** Apologies to all for the rambling style of this post; I just want to give a glimpse at a real-life experience of a first time user. **** ------------------- Going to vpython website; the link brings me to the vpython version for Python 2.3 (I have 2.4 on my machine). I don't want to install an older version. I decide to look around and find the version for Python 2.4 Your website mentions prominently that NumPy is required as well as VPython, but I miss the comment that NumPy is included with VPython later on. Downloaded and installed PyGeo without a hitch. Look for it in the startup menu or the desktop (it never gave any indication it was creating a shortcut): no shortcut present. This is ok, but an option to create a shortcut on windows might be nice for the casual windows user. (I've never done it myself, but still!) Hunt for PyGeo... found a help file (txt) in the pygeo folder, but no readme. A readme.txt file would be nice. Guessing that I have to call it using vpyframe.py... Wrong guess... Look around (I should have read more carefully your website perhaps), and find the documentation, including the quickstart.html Try the Hello Point example using PythonWin... crash PythonWin (on the fourth line) :-( Try with the interactive python shell.... crash it on the second line. This is not going well for me. Try it with the shell included with rur-ple ;-) Similar as PythonWin IDE. rur-ple seems to hang when the display.pickloop() is called. However, I can move around the point, with the mouse (it changes color as I move it around). [The "hanging behavior" should not surprise me; it's most likely a conflict between the wxpython mainloop and tkinter.] Ok, playing with it. Call help; I can enlarge the help window, but no additional text it shown. However, I can scroll down and see the rest of the text. Back to reading the documentation... ok, there's a lot more there that I should have looked at first. Reading some more, I found out why rur-ple became irresponsive once I activated the pickloop() (My own fault for not reading). Ok, now I'm puzzling how I'd get out of the loop to continue experimenting and try the line example. Can't find out how; kill rur-ple to get out. Try the second example with Idle. The "output" in the terminal window is different than before and different also from the documentation; the lines with "vector" are not displayed as a response (they were when using PythonWin or rur-ple), but LineFromPoints is (which is different from the documentation) >>> from pygeo import * >>> display=display() >>> p1=FreePoint(1,4,5) >>> p2=FreePoint(5,11,9) >>> Line(p1,p2) LineFromPoints(<1, 4, 5>,<5, 11, 9>) I try to play with it without "starting" the loop and I find out that the right mouse button allows me to move things around. It is fairly reponsive. I find that, after I call the pickloop() method, I can kill pygeo (without killing idle). I try again with rur-ple - killing the pygeo window kills rur-ple altogether. Browsing the documentation gives a good feeling. One "surprising" observation: on the complex/index.html page, on the left hand side (navigation sidebar?) there are links to Complex Numbers, Complex Plane and the Riemann sphere elsewhere on the documentation; on the right-hand, the same three terms have external links, one to wolfram stuff, the other two to wikipedia entries. (find out it is the same elsewhere). I have a problem with links to exactly the same phrases on the same page pointing in different places. ============================ Time for some "concluding" observations. It looks like a powerful package, with a lot of thought having gone into it. (I don't say that to be nice!). The pictures on the website are tentalizing ... but how do I get to draw them. To parody an old ad: "where's the code?". I crave for a "tutorial" showing, step by step, what it is good for. If part of the stated goal is to have "elementary schools students and their teachers"... I say that there are many things missing. I can't imagine an average elementary school teacher even beginning to grasp how to potentially use it in the classroom. (Of course, kids are a different matter ;-) As a fellow developper, I am *very impressed* by the quality of what I see. All in all, it looks like it is ready for a 1.0 release to a specialized audience. It does need more work (in my opinion) on the accompanying writeup. Then again, perhaps it is there and I have simply missed it in my hasty way to look at it. ==== Back to working on my own stuff. I hope that, one day (next release perhaps ;-) Arthur will have the time to document in the same cavalier fashion his attempt at playing with rur-ple !! Andr? From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 02:48:02 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 21:48:02 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601231748re9e8118ld590f19840ad1f35@mail.gmail.com> On 1/22/06, Arthur wrote: > > I will going out with the PyGeo1.0 alpha release within the next few days. > 2nd look... (I'm watching the Canadian election results instead of programming.... boring right now, so I went back to PyGeo's site). ==== The documentation looks very complete; good from a programmer's point of view. Again, I'm looking at things quickly, but there's very little to be disappointed from, at first view. One minor nitpick: the links to the wolfram site contain, to my mind, very little material. Compared to the amount of work PyGeo must have required, I'd suggest a tiny bit more and do your own write up (with PyGeo generated pictures!) of the information that can be currently obtained from the wolfram site. Ok, enough from me for tonight! I'd encourage other people on the list to have a look at PyGeo! Andr? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 04:19:39 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:19:39 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> Message-ID: Need to try lots of stuff. Obviously not everybody wants to try my stunts. I don't jump in for others at the drop of a hat either -- like in a circus, the lion tamer isn't necessarily a clown or vice versa (but if you can do 'em both, fine). For example, I'm clearly mixed up in some rag tag army of Tetrahedronistas, waging rebel action against the Giant Cube (aka Borg). Romantic? Sure. But fraught with risks. I'm proud to have a Python logo emblazoned on my armour, but I'm not suggesting everyone who enjoys Python needs to enlist in my crew. So *many* user groups partially overlap in Python. Your group and mine, for example, whatever that means. I haven't read much Klein yet (nor met Calvin). Love his bottle. Kirby On 1/23/06, Arthur wrote: > > kirby urner wrote: > > > > > Quite a divide. > > > > Art > > > > > > Yes. I've overheard supposedly well-educated lawyers expressing some > > amazement at the thought that Microsoft Word actually had to be > > "written" in some sense. What could that mean? Their imaginations > > boggle. > > > > Kirby > > I think we agree that the term "well-educated" needs some redefinition. > > but not sure we agree too much about how, and redefined to what. > > Art > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060123/d45d7acf/attachment-0001.htm From ajsiegel at optonline.net Tue Jan 24 15:03:20 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (ajsiegel at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:03:20 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601231748re9e8118ld590f19840ad1f35@mail.gmail.com> References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <7528bcdd0601231748re9e8118ld590f19840ad1f35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Andre - I am on a short business trip so it is difficult to reply properly. Just wanted to thank you for your work, and let you know that I find the comments quite helpful. Bottom line, I conclude that is unwise to attempt to reach out beyond the Python literate community before I can offer a more complete environment for PyGeo as part of the distribution. I think the solution will be a customized sCIte editor. I have looked at this before and it doesn't seem overly difficult to do, and a distribution of this kind seems to be within the license terms and intent of the sCIte author. And yes, I will recipricate re: rur-ple (Caught your "rant" on planetpython, btw) Art ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Roberge Date: Monday, January 23, 2006 8:48 pm Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement > On 1/22/06, Arthur wrote: > > > > I will going out with the PyGeo1.0 alpha release within the next > few days. > > > > 2nd look... (I'm watching the Canadian election results instead of > programming.... boring right now, so I went back to PyGeo's site). > ==== > The documentation looks very complete; good from a programmer's point > of view. Again, I'm looking at things quickly, but there's very > little to be disappointed from, at first view. > > One minor nitpick: the links to the wolfram site contain, to my mind, > very little material. Compared to the amount of work PyGeo must have > required, I'd suggest a tiny bit more and do your own write up (with > PyGeo generated pictures!) of the information that can be currently > obtained from the wolfram site. > > Ok, enough from me for tonight! I'd encourage other people on the > list to have a look at PyGeo! > > Andr? > From ajsiegel at optonline.net Tue Jan 24 15:47:44 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (ajsiegel at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 09:47:44 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: kirby urner Date: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:19 pm Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement > > So *many* user groups partially overlap in Python. Your group and > mine, for > example, whatever that means. I haven't read much Klein yet (nor met > Calvin). Love his bottle. Calvin's a swell fellow. Love's horses. Gotta love a guy who loves horses. I forget why. >From my perspective you are more mainstream when it comes to your view of the role of technology, and I am more mainstream when it comes to my view of mathematics. Together we could rule the mainstream world. boring. Art > > Kirby > > On 1/23/06, Arthur wrote: > > > > kirby urner wrote: > > > > > > > > Quite a divide. > > > > > > Art > > > > > > > > > Yes. I've overheard supposedly well-educated lawyers > expressing some > > > amazement at the thought that Microsoft Word actually had to be > > > "written" in some sense. What could that mean? Their > imaginations> > boggle. > > > > > > Kirby > > > > I think we agree that the term "well-educated" needs some > redefinition.> > > but not sure we agree too much about how, and redefined to what. > > > > Art > > > > > From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jan 24 19:32:49 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 10:32:49 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> Message-ID: I thought Calvin loved Hobbes. You're probably right about your being more mainstream in mathematics. As I make clear in my blog, I'm not even a math PhD wannabee, whereas I *am* actively seeking to credential in American literature, as one of the chief architects of the emerging Slayer mythology (Buffy, Serenity,... Ultimate Collection). In other words, Fuller School business is leading me more in the direction of science fiction, with mathematics a layer over that (they teach Synergetics in Narnia, didn't ya know). Python, both the logo and the language, becomes a part of the armour plating (IronPython -- even better). The Evil Empire is a thralldom of cube and server farms. We want to help free the drones to experience more tourism and nonviolent adventure. Kirby On 1/24/06, ajsiegel at optonline.net wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: kirby urner > Date: Monday, January 23, 2006 10:19 pm > Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement > > > > So *many* user groups partially overlap in Python. Your group and > > mine, for > > example, whatever that means. I haven't read much Klein yet (nor met > > Calvin). Love his bottle. > > Calvin's a swell fellow. Love's horses. Gotta love a guy who loves > horses. > > I forget why. > > From my perspective you are more mainstream when it comes to your view of > the role > of technology, and I am more mainstream when it comes to my view of > mathematics. > > Together we could rule the mainstream world. > > boring. > > Art > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060124/ba29f314/attachment.html From ajsiegel at optonline.net Tue Jan 24 21:11:49 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (ajsiegel at optonline.net) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 15:11:49 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: kirby urner Date: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:32 pm Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement > I thought Calvin loved Hobbes. Both materialists. Calvin's material being denim, primarily. Different Hobbes? Art -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060124/03fcc52d/attachment.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Wed Jan 25 17:12:23 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:12:23 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement In-Reply-To: References: <43D42ED9.5050602@optonline.com> <43D557A1.20308@optonline.com> <43D57047.7010506@optonline.com> Message-ID: Enter Calvin Hobbes in Google images. That's who I mean now, though yes, jeans were a theme too. Kirby On 1/24/06, ajsiegel at optonline.net wrote: > > *----- Original Message -----* > > *From*: kirby urner > > *Date*: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:32 pm > > *Subject*: Re: [Edu-sig] Pre-announcement announcement > > > I thought Calvin loved Hobbes. > > Both materialists. > > Calvin's material being denim, primarily. > > Different Hobbes? > > Art > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060125/b6dcb3f3/attachment.htm From adam at monkeez.org Thu Jan 26 13:06:09 2006 From: adam at monkeez.org (adam) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 12:06:09 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> Message-ID: <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Good to read that someone else has started a club. I have about 5 eleven year olds who are intersted to learn more. We've tweaked the pygame demo 'chimp' with photos of themselves and changing the sounds, which has whetted their apetite to learn more about the mechanics of Python. > Hi Andrew, > > I would have a look at RUR-PLE, at Livewires, and also the book Python > Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson. > > RUR-PLE is great for a little while, it's a little robot on the screen > that can be programmed to move around mazes and so forth using a very > limited set of instructions. It's quite an eye-opener to kids to see how > a few simple constructs can lead to all kinds of unexpected behavior. Go > to http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/ Thanks for this resource - will look into it. > Regards, > > Andy Judkis I've started writing some basic documentation [1] aimed at this age group which describes the basics of installing python (on Windows I'm afraid) and then the basic concepts of variables and touching on Built-ins. Unfortunately, I've not got a great deal of time to spend on this (full-time teaching committment) and so it's something I'd be interested in expanding with the community. I'd be interested in developing the documentation with others using the GPL, possibly managing it through CVS (or some other version control that I can learn easily). The original doc is developed in .sgml, but I'm not wedded to it. Please also feel free to comment on the quality of the docs - they're far from perfect. If anyone else is interested in preparing these docs, and knows enough to help out, please contact me. If you think the docs may be useful to what you're trying to do, and you develop more, consider forwarding them for me to add. TIA. Adam [1] http://www.sjb-school.org/cc/python/python-kids.en/python-kids.html From catherine.curley at gmail.com Thu Jan 26 23:27:26 2006 From: catherine.curley at gmail.com (catherine curley) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:27:26 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Message-ID: Adam I'm an old COBOL programmer/analyst that have moved on to other areas over time. I'm trying to get my 12 year old interested in computers instead of just playing games. I've gone through a number of the tutorials available on the internet but haven't come up with suitable examples that would be suitable for a 12 year old to try. He can enter the instruction in some of the tutorials but he can't comprehend how he might use python. Have you come across any simple exercises for kids. Catherine On 1/26/06, adam wrote: > > Good to read that someone else has started a club. I have about 5 eleven > year olds who are intersted to learn more. We've tweaked the pygame demo > 'chimp' with photos of themselves and changing the sounds, which has > whetted their apetite to learn more about the mechanics of Python. > > > Hi Andrew, > > > > I would have a look at RUR-PLE, at Livewires, and also the book Python > > Programming for the Absolute Beginner by Michael Dawson. > > > > RUR-PLE is great for a little while, it's a little robot on the screen > > that can be programmed to move around mazes and so forth using a very > > limited set of instructions. It's quite an eye-opener to kids to see > how > > a few simple constructs can lead to all kinds of unexpected behavior. Go > > to http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net/ > > Thanks for this resource - will look into it. > > > > Regards, > > > > Andy Judkis > > I've started writing some basic documentation [1] aimed at this age group > which describes the basics of installing python (on Windows I'm afraid) > and then the basic concepts of variables and touching on Built-ins. > > Unfortunately, I've not got a great deal of time to spend on this > (full-time teaching committment) and so it's something I'd be interested > in expanding with the community. > > I'd be interested in developing the documentation with others using the > GPL, possibly managing it through CVS (or some other version control that > I can learn easily). The original doc is developed in .sgml, but I'm not > wedded to it. Please also feel free to comment on the quality of the docs > - they're far from perfect. > > If anyone else is interested in preparing these docs, and knows enough to > help out, please contact me. If you think the docs may be useful to what > you're trying to do, and you develop more, consider forwarding them for me > to add. > > TIA. > Adam > > [1] http://www.sjb-school.org/cc/python/python-kids.en/python-kids.html > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060126/323f4d9b/attachment.html From winstonw at stratolab.com Fri Jan 27 00:39:17 2006 From: winstonw at stratolab.com (Winston Wolff) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 18:39:17 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Message-ID: You might want to look at Processing ( http://www.processing.org/ ). Although it Java and not Python, it's great for first getting into programming. With one or two lines of code you can have shapes appear on screen. With a few more lines you can have animation or 3D. They have lots of documentation too. -ww On Jan 26, 2006, at 5:27 PM, catherine curley wrote: > Adam > > I'm an old COBOL programmer/analyst that have moved on to other > areas over time. I'm trying to get my 12 year old interested in > computers instead of just playing games. I've gone through a > number of the tutorials available on the internet but haven't come > up with suitable examples that would be suitable for a 12 year old > to try. He can enter the instruction in some of the tutorials but > he can't comprehend how he might use python. Have you come across > any simple exercises for kids. > > Catherine > ______________________________________________________ winston wolff - (646) 827-2242 - http://www.stratolab.com learning by creating - video game courses for kids in new york From adam at monkeez.org Fri Jan 27 08:03:19 2006 From: adam at monkeez.org (adam) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 07:03:19 -0000 (GMT) Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Message-ID: <4626.84.45.156.162.1138345399.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Catherine, > Adam > > I'm an old COBOL programmer/analyst that have moved on to other areas over > time. I'm trying to get my 12 year old interested in computers instead > of > just playing games. I've gone through a number of the tutorials available > on the internet but haven't come up with suitable examples that would be > suitable for a 12 year old to try. He can enter the instruction in some > of > the tutorials but he can't comprehend how he might use python. Have you > come across any simple exercises for kids. > > Catherine The children started off interested in just playing games. I didn't think this would lead to a great learning experience, so I offered them the chance of making their own games. As I only have a very limited experience of Pygame, I thought we would look at the demos that come with Pygame (it's a separate download to Pygame, but requires Pygame). I had a hunch that if we changed some graphics and sounds, Pygame would cope pretty well with it, which it did. I took a photo of a boy's head and replaced that for the chimp. They thought this was hilarious. We started to look for other areas where we could 'adapt' the game. We replaced the one boy's head for the groups (in one long time) and then recorded them shouting "ouch!". This enthused them even more. We had to find out how to change the screen size and colour for these new graphics. From that, some want to write their own mini-game, which has meant we've needed to start learning Python. The children valued seeing the source code and being able to adapt it. They now want to add their own. This is just the experience we went through - it might work for your children, or might not. Apologies if this is a rambling post, but it is early here. Adam From andre.roberge at gmail.com Fri Jan 27 16:57:52 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 11:57:52 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Off-topic query for rur-ple users Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601270757y565639dcif51bdde8a9ed4d28@mail.gmail.com> Please, accept my apologies to bring this slightly off-topic question. This is the only way I know to reach RUR-PLE users. How important is it to have a browser included within rur-ple itself? Would there be any objections in eliminating the browser, and using your favourite browser (firefox, etc.) to read the lessons in a separate window? You may want to send your reply directly to me (return address should be part of the message; if not: andre dot roberge at gmail dot com) so as to not "pollute" induly this list. Thanks, Andr? ==== P.S. Just a note about the fact that this is not *completely* off-topic for this list: the PLE in RUR-PLE stands for Python Learning Environment. It is designed for learning Python for people that don't know anything about programming (hence the post to the python-tutor list). It has been used by some teachers in a classroom environment (hence the post to the edu-sig list). It has been very strongly inspired by Guido van Robot (hence the post to the gvr-devel list) and has served as the basis of the world-builder module now included with GvR. From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 02:17:41 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:17:41 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Fwd: Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> <4626.84.45.156.162.1138345399.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: kirby urner Date: Jan 27, 2006 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Starting Python To: adam I think the Python curriculum for children that young is still in its infancy, yet we've already seen many promising developments, Pygame being one of them (although the package by itself is quite low level -- best to start with working code, as Adam is doing). I've had some success with Madlibs at that age, i.e. fill-in-the-blank stories, where the reader/user supplies the missing nouns, verbs and so on. After playing user for awhile, you get to pop open the source and change the story itself, preserving syntax. I'm teaching 8th graders once a week this year, and learning a lot doing it. That's a little bit older than 12 though, more like 15. In the meantime, I'm working on a moodle to define a Algebra with Python course that isn't overly age/grade specific, i.e. an adult could use it. It's directed primarily at teachers, but I expect some of the more curious students will find it and flip through it, just for kicks. My hope is to get a guest password for members of this list, so other teachers can eyeball my latest and greatest math/cs hybrid (yes, it's basically more of the same). Kirby On 1/26/06, adam wrote: > > Catherine, > > > Adam > > > > I'm an old COBOL programmer/analyst that have moved on to other areas > over > > time. I'm trying to get my 12 year old interested in computers instead > > of > > just playing games. I've gone through a number of the tutorials > available > > on the internet but haven't come up with suitable examples that would be > > suitable for a 12 year old to try. He can enter the instruction in some > > of > > the tutorials but he can't comprehend how he might use python. Have you > > > come across any simple exercises for kids. > > > > Catherine > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060127/41193e6f/attachment.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 04:54:19 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:54:19 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Cut and paste from Moodle (apologies if formatting messed up) Message-ID: 1Introduction to CS201 What this course is about: learning enough Python to make your explorations of algebra concepts more enjoyable and self-informative. Getting Started Some brief remarks about getting going in Python How to Think Like a Computer Scientist The Python version of Allen Downey's open source book, with Jeff Elkner. Introducing Sequences A first look at sequences as a stepping stone into various algebra topics. On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences Enter the beginning terms of your sequence and see if there's a corresponding sequence in the database. Pythonic Mathematics I wrote this PDF for Europython 2005, held in Gothenberg, Sweden. This PDF summarizes a lot of my thinking at the time, and likely reflects a lot of my thinking to this day. I also have an accompanying PowerPoint version(shared with my audience in Sweden). This course needs DVD clips I think a lot of this material would be much more accessible if we had an easy way to pull up relevant short clips, such as we find on Sesame Street about the letter A or number 5, except about other topics (the ones studied here). The emergence of video.google.com is an exciting development in this regard. Classroom Infrastructure A posting to the Math Forum about new technology I'd like to see in the classroom. 2Prime and Composite Numbers Let's review what we know about the positive integers: they break down into roughly two sets: the prime and the composite. The numbers 1 and 0 don't really belong to either group. Basic Operations in Python In this curriculum segment, we investigate primitive numeric operations, plus we import some functions from the math module. Euclid's Algorithm for the GCD Euclid's algorithm is one of the oldest on record. We don't think Euclid invented it, any more than we suppose Plato first discovered the five Platonic solids. However, Euclid, like Plato, helped ensure this valuable method remained available to subsequent scholars. Functions and Looping Here we look at control structures within the body of a Python function. We also take a look at how to set default arguments. Generators and Pascal's Triangle The concept of a generator is not unique to Python -- I believe it was inspired by a feature in Icon, another language, just like list comprehension syntax was inspired by Haskell. A generator is like a looping function with state, i.e. it remembers local variables from one cycle to the next. Dot Notation Common to many object oriented languages is dot notation, a way of using the period to gain access to an object's properties and methods. 3Triangular and Square Numbers Let's write Python functions to return the Nth term in the Triangular and Square number sequences. Tetrahedral and Cubic Numbers Now let's use Python to generate these polyhedral number sequences. Cuboctahedral and Icosahedral Numbers Finally, let's explore this important number sequence, and where it takes us in molecular biology, crystallography, chemistry, and architecture. Python and Mathematics (PyCon 2004) Note: I was unable to actually present this paper owing to sudden news of family illness. I was in DC for a symposium on Buckminster Fuller, on a panel with E.J. Applewhite and others. Then I helped Blaine D'Amico with a science workshop for kids (we built at octet truss out of toothpicks). After that, I flew home. Microarchitecture of the Virus The icosahedral numbers thread turns into the geodesic spheres thread, leading to microbiology (virology), architecture (Tacoma Dome etc.), and chemistry (buckyballs, nanotubes). Prototyping Shelters This is a sidebar on pioneering work in the world of shelter design. Fuller called them "environment controls" in an effort to counter our prejudicial imaginations, which a very biased towards a particular concept of "home". Perhaps these prototypes are for vacation or resort villages, or for disaster relief. 4Types of Object Now that we've learned about controlling flow using functions, it's time to package our functions, as methods, into objects. Objects maintain state and allow us to organize our thinking using metaphors that remind us of our real world experience, of objects with properties (e.g. color) and behavior (e.g. wags tail). Playing with Robots Ideally, this curriculum segment will benefit from marketplace innovations in the "programmable robot pet" genre. This course would especially benefit if the control language were Python. 5The Rational Number Type Let's develop a Rat class (or name it something else if you're afraid of rats). The Polynomial Type Polynomials have degree and coefficients. In this module we develop a compact way of expressing polynomial objects, such that we may multiply them together. Dividing one polynomial by another is not guaranteed to give you a new polynomial however. Polynomials form a Ring (see future module). Vector Type We're going through these in fairly quick progression. This is a preview course. We go back and dissect and embellish in more detail in follow-up courses. This is all about whetting the appetite and providing overview. A Quick Dive into Fractals When two complex numbers multiply, the Argand Diagram shows a rotation and magnitude effect. An iterative approach (start with any complex number on the plane and keep plugging back in) will give a divergent or convergent result, with the rate of divergence driving a color wheel mapping. Fractals with Python and PIL PIL is Python's Imaging Library. Using PIL, we're able to control the individual pixels on a canvas object, allowing us to publish the visual representation of a fractal, once we've chosen a color scheme. Python Code for a Vector Class No need to reinvent the wheel. Start with working code, tweak to taste. Python Code for Talking to POV-Ray Python is a good glue language. What does that mean? In this module, we translate "vector talk" (is in coords.py) into "scene description language," the native language of POV-Ray . Replace "html" with "py" in the URL for a plaintext version. A Shapes class This may be more source code than you want or need. Many will call my approach idiosyncratic, in that I make use of quadrays, a type of simplicial coordinate system, plus calibrate my volumes to match those of the concentric hierarchy in synergetics. These are somewhat esoteric features that only a few teachers will probably care for, at least initially. 6Modulo Number Type This class allows us to set a class variable (new concept in this context), namely the Modulus N for all the objects. These objects, basically integers, will then perform arithmetic operations modulo N. GCD and Relative Primality If two integers have no factors in common other than one, we say their relatively prime, or coprime. Some people call them "strangers." They have no common denomintor. Our GCD function will therefore tell us about the relative primehood of any two integers. Euler's Totient Concept The totient of a positive integer N is the number of smaller positive integers that are relatively prime to N. For example, the numbers less than 12 with 1 as the only common factor are: 1, 5, 7, 11. Therefore, the totient of 12 is 4. 7Properties of a Group A review of Group Theory concepts covered so far. Vegetable Group Soup This demo uses vegetables in place of integers in Z(6). The supplementary reading is somewhat technical for early algebra students, but the demo itself should prove fairly digestible. Properties of a Ring The algebraic structure known as a Ring introduces and second operation, in relationship to the first. We have full group properties for the first operation, but not the second. Properties of a Field Fields have two operations, both with full group properities, plus the distributive relationship between them. 8Polyhedra and Symmetry Groups Polyhedra may be categorized according to what kinds of rotational symmetry they support and their various axes. For example, the icosahedron is 5-fold symmetric around its vertex-to-opposite-vertex axes: if you rotate it 1/5th of a complete rotation around such an axis (72 degrees), it ends up looking unchanged. Symmetry: A Unifying Concept by Istvan and Magdolna Hargittai 9Fermat's Little Theorem Fermat's Little Theorem defines a condition that's always true for prime numbers, but is also true for some composites. By tweaking the condition, we're albe to filter out almost all composites, but not all of them. Euler's Theorem Euler's Theorem is actually more general than Fermat's Little Theorem, i.e. once we prove Euler's is true, we get Fermat's as a consequence. Crypto 101 A short introduction to the history of cryptography, with special attention to the symmetric secret key system versus the public key system. This is how we pay them back for slogging through some of those number theory segments: RSA will be somewhat comprehensible. 10Topical Review and Class Party This might be some multi-media blow-out, where we recap a lot of content visually, with allusions to future possibilities, but let the students have fun, let off steam, stage a dance, invite a band, whatever. ------------------------------ You are logged in as Kirby Urner( Logout ) CS201 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060127/783c3df1/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 04:57:06 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 19:57:06 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Cut and paste from Moodle (apologies if formatting messed up) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yikes, that came out really ugly. My apologies. The links are all to some intranet and I don't have a password for you yet. I'll wait until I have something more presentable. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060127/8ffda682/attachment.html From andre.roberge at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 05:06:42 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 00:06:42 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Cut and paste from Moodle (apologies if formatting messed up) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601272006w22e557f9xcdea026c22de90dd@mail.gmail.com> On 1/27/06, kirby urner wrote: > > Yikes, that came out really ugly. My apologies. The links are all to some > intranet and I don't have a password for you yet. I'll wait until I have > something more presentable. > > Kirby > It does look very promising though! I'm curious about your rats ;-) I suspect I have something similar in the works, but I call it "fraction" given the intended audience which may include some younger students than yours ;-) Andr? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 05:12:23 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:12:23 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? Message-ID: Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have ideas for doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle someplace, we could develop open source courseware, either as individuals or in teams. The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new site. I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through the interface, will restore to another Moodle. I could easily transfer the content in that case. Others could roll their own. Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm sure there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it seems like a pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more vertical market than Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with distance education courseware in mind. I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and running. But if someone in the Python community does, and wants to use edu-sig as a staging ground and talent pool, I bet we could go places with it. Lots of new tutorials, useless python and vaults of parnassus type stuff could be recast in a more distance education friendly format. Kirby 4D/OCN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060127/5cf083fd/attachment.htm From delza at livingcode.org Sat Jan 28 05:22:56 2006 From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:22:56 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> I have a server that I'd be willing to use to host a Python moodle. Do you want me to set it up, or would you rather I give you access? It's livingcode.org (pardon the front page, I'm in the process of building a new one) and it's a dreamhosts site, so it's got PHP, MySQL, python, and lots of other goodies built in. --Dethe On 27-Jan-06, at 8:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: > Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > ideas for > doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle someplace, we > could > develop open source courseware, either as individuals or in teams. > > The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new > site. > I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through the > interface, > will restore to another Moodle. I could easily transfer the > content in that > case. Others could roll their own. > > Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm > sure > there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it seems like a > pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more vertical market than > Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with distance education > courseware > in mind. > > I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and > running. But if > someone in the Python community does, and wants to use edu-sig as a > staging > ground and talent pool, I bet we could go places with it. Lots of new > tutorials, useless python and vaults of parnassus type stuff could > be recast > in a more distance education friendly format. > > Kirby > 4D/OCN > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig "Isn't 'A guy tried to smuggle plutonium from Tajikistan into Afganistan or Pakistan' just a fancy way of saying 'Live for the moment?'" --Get Your War On From kabads at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 12:47:17 2006 From: kabads at gmail.com (Adam Cripps) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:47:17 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> Message-ID: On 1/28/06, Dethe Elza wrote: > I have a server that I'd be willing to use to host a Python moodle. > Do you want me to set it up, or would you rather I give you access? > > It's livingcode.org (pardon the front page, I'm in the process of > building a new one) and it's a dreamhosts site, so it's got PHP, > MySQL, python, and lots of other goodies built in. > > --Dethe > > On 27-Jan-06, at 8:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > > Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > > ideas for > > doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle someplace, we > > could > > develop open source courseware, either as individuals or in teams. > > > > The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new > > site. > > I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through the > > interface, > > will restore to another Moodle. I could easily transfer the > > content in that > > case. Others could roll their own. > > > > Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm > > sure > > there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it seems like a > > pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more vertical market than > > Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with distance education > > courseware > > in mind. > > > > I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and > > running. But if > > someone in the Python community does, and wants to use edu-sig as a > > staging > > ground and talent pool, I bet we could go places with it. Lots of new > > tutorials, useless python and vaults of parnassus type stuff could > > be recast > > in a more distance education friendly format. > > > > Kirby > > 4D/OCN I'd be interested in this - although my focus would be 10 and 11 year olds - although this isn't limiting people to a particular course according to their age. My aim would be to develop some materials collaboratively - can moodle also fulfill this (or am I the only one who needs this)? Adam (using different email account) -- http://www.monkeez.org PGP key: 0x7111B833 From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 16:55:32 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:55:32 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> Message-ID: Hi Dethe -- livingcode.org seems a logical and appropriate place for a Python Courseware Moodle. If you feel led, have the time, I think you should set it up and keep tight control of security. Mete out accounts as you see fit, with the right to revoke. It's your server and you should treat it as such, not as community property. Then the moodles themselves will belong to their authors, internal to the infrastructure you provide, as Dungeon Master (DM). Anyway, that's one model for a Moodle. Just a proposal, obviously, since it involves you doing the work. My first step, if given a teacher account, would be to move a copy of my Algebra with Python course to it. Kirby PS: I'm curious about the specs regarding this host. Do you want to handle the bandwidth that might be needed if word gets out that livingcode has some of the latest and greatest learning materials in the "programming to learn" genre? Of course if transferring content proves as easy as I hope, then other Python Moodles could pop up to help distribute the work load. I might even bring one on-line someday, if I ever get a bigger crew together locally. On 1/27/06, Dethe Elza wrote: > > I have a server that I'd be willing to use to host a Python moodle. > Do you want me to set it up, or would you rather I give you access? > > It's livingcode.org (pardon the front page, I'm in the process of > building a new one) and it's a dreamhosts site, so it's got PHP, > MySQL, python, and lots of other goodies built in. > > --Dethe > > On 27-Jan-06, at 8:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > > Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > > ideas for > > doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle someplace, we > > could > > develop open source courseware, either as individuals or in teams. > > > > The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new > > site. > > I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through the > > interface, > > will restore to another Moodle. I could easily transfer the > > content in that > > case. Others could roll their own. > > > > Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm > > sure > > there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it seems like a > > pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more vertical market than > > Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with distance education > > courseware > > in mind. > > > > I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and > > running. But if > > someone in the Python community does, and wants to use edu-sig as a > > staging > > ground and talent pool, I bet we could go places with it. Lots of new > > tutorials, useless python and vaults of parnassus type stuff could > > be recast > > in a more distance education friendly format. > > > > Kirby > > 4D/OCN > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > "Isn't 'A guy tried to smuggle plutonium from Tajikistan into > Afganistan or Pakistan' just a fancy way of saying 'Live for the > moment?'" --Get Your War On > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060128/9751b0ba/attachment.htm From bmiller at luther.edu Sat Jan 28 16:51:34 2006 From: bmiller at luther.edu (Brad Miller) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:51:34 -0600 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <52039EE4-698D-452F-B031-F519DF4439A4@luther.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Great Idea, I would also offer www.pythonworks.org/moodle as a home. I have a CS1 course (using Zelle's book) that I can put out on whatever site we decide to use. By May I'll have a CS2 course ready to go. Brad On Jan 27, 2006, at 10:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > ideas for doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle > someplace, we could develop open source courseware, either as > individuals or in teams. > > The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new > site. I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through > the interface, will restore to another Moodle. I could easily > transfer the content in that case. Others could roll their own. > > Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm > sure there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it > seems like a pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more > vertical market than Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with > distance education courseware in mind. > > I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and > running. But if someone in the Python community does, and wants to > use edu-sig as a staging ground and talent pool, I bet we could go > places with it. Lots of new tutorials, useless python and vaults > of parnassus type stuff could be recast in a more distance > education friendly format. > > Kirby > 4D/OCN > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD25MGt6pClM1VKiYRAmKdAJ9dPFgZmIt3HPuVZOjdiB7FEJaLfACgt1Uw p5IeHS6fztdx23Im71tC9Ig= =cxkO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vceder at canterburyschool.org Sat Jan 28 18:28:41 2006 From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:28:41 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> Message-ID: <43DBA9C9.7040207@canterburyschool.org> (pardon the previous blank post - I pulled the trigger too fast ;) ) I would also have some things to contribute, and I think either livingcode.org or pythonworks.org would be great choices. Since pythonworks already has a Moodle, it might be the place to start... As to the admin policies, I would agree that Kirby's suggestions are reasonable. Cheers, Vern kirby urner wrote: > Hi Dethe -- > > livingcode.org seems a logical and appropriate > place for a Python Courseware Moodle. > > If you feel led, have the time, I think you should set it up and keep > tight control of security. Mete out accounts as you see fit, with the > right to revoke. It's your server and you should treat it as such, not > as community property. Then the moodles themselves will belong to their > authors, internal to the infrastructure you provide, as Dungeon Master > (DM). > > Anyway, that's one model for a Moodle. Just a proposal, obviously, > since it involves you doing the work. > > My first step, if given a teacher account, would be to move a copy of my > Algebra with Python course to it. > -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 From vceder at canterburyschool.org Sat Jan 28 18:27:28 2006 From: vceder at canterburyschool.org (Vern Ceder) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:27:28 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> Message-ID: <43DBA980.6080108@canterburyschool.org> kirby urner wrote: > Hi Dethe -- > > livingcode.org seems a logical and appropriate > place for a Python Courseware Moodle. > > If you feel led, have the time, I think you should set it up and keep > tight control of security. Mete out accounts as you see fit, with the > right to revoke. It's your server and you should treat it as such, not > as community property. Then the moodles themselves will belong to their > authors, internal to the infrastructure you provide, as Dungeon Master > (DM). > > Anyway, that's one model for a Moodle. Just a proposal, obviously, > since it involves you doing the work. > > My first step, if given a teacher account, would be to move a copy of my > Algebra with Python course to it. > > Kirby > > PS: I'm curious about the specs regarding this host. Do you want to > handle the bandwidth that might be needed if word gets out that > livingcode has some of the latest and greatest learning materials in the > "programming to learn" genre? Of course if transferring content proves > as easy as I hope, then other Python Moodles could pop up to help > distribute the work load. I might even bring one on-line someday, if I > ever get a bigger crew together locally. > > On 1/27/06, *Dethe Elza* > wrote: > > I have a server that I'd be willing to use to host a Python moodle. > Do you want me to set it up, or would you rather I give you access? > > It's livingcode.org (pardon the front page, > I'm in the process of > building a new one) and it's a dreamhosts site, so it's got PHP, > MySQL, python, and lots of other goodies built in. > > --Dethe > > On 27-Jan-06, at 8:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > > Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > > ideas for > > doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle someplace, we > > could > > develop open source courseware, either as individuals or in teams. > > > > The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new > > site. > > I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through the > > interface, > > will restore to another Moodle. I could easily transfer the > > content in that > > case. Others could roll their own. > > > > Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm > > sure > > there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it seems > like a > > pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more vertical market > than > > Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with distance education > > courseware > > in mind. > > > > I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and > > running. But if > > someone in the Python community does, and wants to use edu-sig as a > > staging > > ground and talent pool, I bet we could go places with it. Lots > of new > > tutorials, useless python and vaults of parnassus type stuff could > > be recast > > in a more distance education friendly format. > > > > Kirby > > 4D/OCN > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > "Isn't 'A guy tried to smuggle plutonium from Tajikistan into > Afganistan or Pakistan' just a fancy way of saying 'Live for the > moment?'" --Get Your War On > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- This time for sure! -Bullwinkle J. Moose ----------------------------- Vern Ceder, Director of Technology Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804 vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137 From delza at livingcode.org Sat Jan 28 19:58:21 2006 From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:58:21 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> Message-ID: <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> Kirby wrote: > If you feel led, have the time, I think you should set it up and > keep tight > control of security. Mete out accounts as you see fit, with the > right to > revoke. It's your server and you should treat it as such, not as > community > property. No but my time is quite limited, and there are a handful of people on this list I would trust with access if they were inclined to set it up. On the other hand, I've already downloaded it and read through the install procedure and it doesn't look too hard either to set up or to maintain, so I can take that on. > Then the moodles themselves will belong to their authors, > internal to the infrastructure you provide, as Dungeon Master (DM). Yes, I'm not offereing to open up root access to every member of the list forever or anything. > PS: I'm curious about the specs regarding this host. Do you want > to handle > the bandwidth that might be needed if word gets out that livingcode > has some > of the latest and greatest learning materials in the "programming > to learn" > genre? I've only ever used a tiny fraction of the resources of the host. Unless python pedagogical materials become the new slashdot (or Digg?) they should be more than sufficient. Video is the only really crushing burden for a host, and if they are Creative Commons licensed they could be hosted at archive.org and linked from the moodle. > Of course if transferring content proves as easy as I hope, then > other Python Moodles could pop up to help distribute the work > load. I might > even bring one on-line someday, if I ever get a bigger crew together > locally. I think that one-stop shopping might be better. I already feel that crucial python information is spread too much across multiple Wikis, documentation projects, etc. Which brings me to the next point. Brad wrote: > Great Idea, I would also offer www.pythonworks.org/moodle as a home. > > I have a CS1 course (using Zelle's book) that I can put out on > whatever site we decide to use. > By May I'll have a CS2 course ready to go. Since Brad already has a moodle *and* content for it, and pythonworks.org appears to be a fine name for it, I'm perfectly willing to go with that. The offer for a moodle at livingcode still stands if we find we need it for any reason (different grade levels, more resources, whatever). Is everyone OK with this plan (especially Brad)? --Dethe PowerPoint can make almost anything appear good and look professional. Quite frankly, I find that a little bit frightening. --David Byrne From catherine.curley at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 22:52:52 2006 From: catherine.curley at gmail.com (catherine curley) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 21:52:52 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> Message-ID: Hi to all Any only new to python and trying to terach myself and introduct my 12 year old. Would be very interested in keeping in touch with your ideas but afraid would not have any input at this stage. To keep up, should I try to get into moodle also - please direct me. Catherine On 1/28/06, Dethe Elza wrote: > > Kirby wrote: > > > If you feel led, have the time, I think you should set it up and > > keep tight > > control of security. Mete out accounts as you see fit, with the > > right to > > revoke. It's your server and you should treat it as such, not as > > community > > property. > > No but my time is quite limited, and there are a handful of people on > this list I would trust with access if they were inclined to set it > up. On the other hand, I've already downloaded it and read through > the install procedure and it doesn't look too hard either to set up > or to maintain, so I can take that on. > > > Then the moodles themselves will belong to their authors, > > internal to the infrastructure you provide, as Dungeon Master (DM). > > Yes, I'm not offereing to open up root access to every member of the > list forever or anything. > > > PS: I'm curious about the specs regarding this host. Do you want > > to handle > > the bandwidth that might be needed if word gets out that livingcode > > has some > > of the latest and greatest learning materials in the "programming > > to learn" > > genre? > > I've only ever used a tiny fraction of the resources of the host. > Unless python pedagogical materials become the new slashdot (or > Digg?) they should be more than sufficient. Video is the only really > crushing burden for a host, and if they are Creative Commons licensed > they could be hosted at archive.org and linked from the moodle. > > > Of course if transferring content proves as easy as I hope, then > > other Python Moodles could pop up to help distribute the work > > load. I might > > even bring one on-line someday, if I ever get a bigger crew together > > locally. > > I think that one-stop shopping might be better. I already feel that > crucial python information is spread too much across multiple Wikis, > documentation projects, etc. Which brings me to the next point. > > Brad wrote: > > > Great Idea, I would also offer www.pythonworks.org/moodle as a home. > > > > I have a CS1 course (using Zelle's book) that I can put out on > > whatever site we decide to use. > > By May I'll have a CS2 course ready to go. > > Since Brad already has a moodle *and* content for it, and > pythonworks.org appears to be a fine name for it, I'm perfectly > willing to go with that. The offer for a moodle at livingcode still > stands if we find we need it for any reason (different grade levels, > more resources, whatever). > > Is everyone OK with this plan (especially Brad)? > > --Dethe > > PowerPoint can make almost anything appear good and look > professional. Quite frankly, I find that a little bit frightening. > --David Byrne > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060128/0017ac58/attachment.html From catherine.curley at gmail.com Sat Jan 28 23:00:49 2006 From: catherine.curley at gmail.com (catherine curley) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 22:00:49 +0000 Subject: [Edu-sig] Starting Python In-Reply-To: References: <003d01c61bc4$09ccbb30$6401a8c0@Gandalf> <54142.213.166.17.25.1138277169.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> <4626.84.45.156.162.1138345399.squirrel@webmail.monkeez.org> Message-ID: Kirby Have just read another email about a new site for moodle - possible say your response - have responded to that. Any interested in any way of trying to get my 12 year old interested in programming. Am myself one third through Alan Gauld tutorial. Have my 12 year old going through the lessons in Rur-ple. Hopefully at the end he will be interested in moving forward - he is a good maths student and if he would relate to something that you are developing, it would be great. Catherine On 1/28/06, kirby urner wrote: > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: kirby urner > Date: Jan 27, 2006 5:15 PM > Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Starting Python > To: adam > > > I think the Python curriculum for children that young is still in its > infancy, yet we've already seen many promising developments, Pygame being > one of them (although the package by itself is quite low level -- best to > start with working code, as Adam is doing). > > I've had some success with Madlibs at that age, i.e. fill-in-the-blank > stories, where the reader/user supplies the missing nouns, verbs and so on. > After playing user for awhile, you get to pop open the source and change the > story itself, preserving syntax. > > I'm teaching 8th graders once a week this year, and learning a lot doing > it. That's a little bit older than 12 though, more like 15. > > In the meantime, I'm working on a moodle to define a Algebra with Python > course that isn't overly age/grade specific, i.e. an adult could use it. > It's directed primarily at teachers, but I expect some of the more curious > students will find it and flip through it, just for kicks. > > My hope is to get a guest password for members of this list, so other > teachers can eyeball my latest and greatest math/cs hybrid (yes, it's > basically more of the same). > > Kirby > > > On 1/26/06, adam < adam at monkeez.org> wrote: > > > > Catherine, > > > > > Adam > > > > > > I'm an old COBOL programmer/analyst that have moved on to other areas > > over > > > time. I'm trying to get my 12 year old interested in computers > > instead > > > of > > > just playing games. I've gone through a number of the tutorials > > available > > > on the internet but haven't come up with suitable examples that would > > be > > > suitable for a 12 year old to try. He can enter the instruction in > > some > > > of > > > the tutorials but he can't comprehend how he might use python. Have > > you > > > come across any simple exercises for kids. > > > > > > Catherine > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060128/38411770/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 00:51:20 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:51:20 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> Message-ID: I see that the backup of the moodle appears to contain everything needed to restore it elsewhere. It also comes with an unencrypted username, and an encrypted password (MD5?). If I publish my zip backup to the Internet, inviting Pythonistas to restore it within their own Moodles, if wishing to subscribe to my courseware, then they might want to replace my username/password with one generated locally. If my content is used, I would appreciate if some note was made that I'm not actively maintaining it directly, i.e. it's a sysop function to download and upload, whereas I may not even have access into the account. A similar policy would hold on my end: if you let me use your content, but don't have an account on my moodle, I'll let the public know that, if I choose to subscribe. Another way to go would be to give me a username and password and get them to me securely, with the password in both plaintext and hash form (either that, or we nail down the hash algorithm, so I can run it on my side -- but without needing to set up anything new in Moodle). Then I could backup from my Moodle, replace the info below, log in to your Moodle and restore. This would be more work for me, but I could see developing this form of relationship in a few cases. Kirby >From moodle.xml a 100,135 byte file inside the backup. Picture files (of which I have only four so far, 2 pngs and 2 jpegs) get stored separately (note: I monkeyed with the hash, so don't expect to a dictionary attack will work). - <#> - <#> 13 manual 1 0 kurner 73c4bbb8w65b4fea366e743b6ce48541 CS201 Kirby Urner kirby.urner at gmail.com 0 0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060128/6a4fcc9b/attachment.html From chuck at freshsources.com Sat Jan 28 18:46:10 2006 From: chuck at freshsources.com (Chuck Allison) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:46:10 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <52039EE4-698D-452F-B031-F519DF4439A4@luther.edu> References: <52039EE4-698D-452F-B031-F519DF4439A4@luther.edu> Message-ID: <1803159653.20060128104610@freshsources.com> I don't know if this would be of interest, but I teach Python to corporations (Symantec at the moment). I have materials that worked well with testers with little or no programming experience. Probably not suitable for youngsters, but I say, let's spread the word to everyone! Saturday, January 28, 2006, 8:51:34 AM, you wrote: BM> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- BM> Hash: SHA1 BM> Great Idea, I would also offer www.pythonworks.org/moodle as a home. BM> I have a CS1 course (using Zelle's book) that I can put out on BM> whatever site we decide to use. BM> By May I'll have a CS2 course ready to go. BM> Brad BM> On Jan 27, 2006, at 10:12 PM, kirby urner wrote: >> >> Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have >> ideas for doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle >> someplace, we could develop open source courseware, either as >> individuals or in teams. >> >> The Algebra with Python stuff I'm doing could be cloned to the new >> site. I'm pretty sure the backup zip I'm able to create through >> the interface, will restore to another Moodle. I could easily >> transfer the content in that case. Others could roll their own. >> >> Seems like a good idea (didn't someone already propose this?). I'm >> sure there are plenty of alternatives to Moodle, but so far it >> seems like a pretty workable solution to a problem. It's more >> vertical market than Plone, i.e. is built from the ground up with >> distance education courseware in mind. >> >> I don't have the server or the time to get a Moodle up and >> running. But if someone in the Python community does, and wants to >> use edu-sig as a staging ground and talent pool, I bet we could go >> places with it. Lots of new tutorials, useless python and vaults >> of parnassus type stuff could be recast in a more distance >> education friendly format. >> >> Kirby >> 4D/OCN >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Edu-sig mailing list >> Edu-sig at python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig BM> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- BM> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) BM> iD8DBQFD25MGt6pClM1VKiYRAmKdAJ9dPFgZmIt3HPuVZOjdiB7FEJaLfACgt1Uw BM> p5IeHS6fztdx23Im71tC9Ig= BM> =cxkO BM> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- BM> _______________________________________________ BM> Edu-sig mailing list BM> Edu-sig at python.org BM> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -- Best regards, Chuck From andre.roberge at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 04:53:44 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:53:44 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I just uploaded (I had to do it twice to get it right) a new set of lessons for rur-ple on sourceforge.net. They are in a file named "html.zip". There are about a dozen new additional lessons. [rur-ple is a learning environment for Python, inspired by Karel the Robot, and Guido van Robot ... but it allows so much more!] I would describe the new lessons as a "beta" release. They can't properly be viewed through the browser included in rur-ple, because of my use of style files. This won't change in the future. The "index" file (rur.htm) has not been fully updated. However, if you use it to take you to the first lesson, you should be able to navigate from one lesson to the next. I have made a small change in the robot language [facing_North() has been changed to facing_north()]; the current version of rur-ple on sourceforge uses the old notation. Future lesson numbering will be of the form 0.n where n= number of lessons included, until I have enough to call it a "complete" introduction to Python. I will need to make a new release soon of rur-ple, so that it will work properly on MacOs. Also, I'm *really* excited about a significant change I have made to the last notebook page (the simple Python editor) for the app. I am waiting to have lessons written for it (I just need two or three more I think) and then I'll do a new rur-ple release. Now, how's that for a teaser ;-) *Please*, don't be shy to give me some feedback (good *and* bad). Andr? From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 17:04:02 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 08:04:02 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> References: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andre --- My plan is to introduce my daughter to Python using the robot theme. Your curriculum is an obvious place to start. I will be starting a more in depth investigation of your work in the near future. My longer term hope is to see some physical robot offerings on the market (in addition to the screen based ones) with some kind of Python capability -- perhaps just a module with pre-defined motions the user might resequence or trigger based on events (sensor inputs), per Lego Mindstorms example. Also, I'm hoping the screen-based options become more visually sophisticated, ala the Sims genre, i.e. we could script theater, complete with dialog and sound, using Python (yes, this is Alice territory). Arthur, before you blow your stack, this theater or playhouse genre isn't about learning or teaching programming necessarily. It's about scripting plays and sharing them with your friends. Programming is a prerequisite, but by the time you start animating some Shakespeare play or whatever, we assume you've already got those skills. Python is for people who already know how to program, not just for those into learning how. An important fact to keep in mind, as we explore the space of potentially marketable products. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/e2335b37/attachment.html From delza at livingcode.org Sun Jan 29 18:56:51 2006 From: delza at livingcode.org (Dethe Elza) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 09:56:51 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. In-Reply-To: References: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 29-Jan-06, at 8:04 AM, kirby urner wrote: > Hi Andre --- > > My plan is to introduce my daughter to Python using the robot > theme. Your curriculum is an obvious place to start. I will be > starting a more in depth investigation of your work in the near > future. I'm also introducing my daughter to programming with robots. If they're close to the same age (mine is nine) we might be able to brainstorm approaches and share successes. > My longer term hope is to see some physical robot offerings on the > market (in addition to the screen based ones) with some kind of > Python capability -- perhaps just a module with pre-defined motions > the user might resequence or trigger based on events (sensor > inputs), per Lego Mindstorms example. Pyro (http://pyrorobotics.org/) does exactly this. It provides an environment for programming physical robots, but you can also run them in a simulator which uses OpenGL to create both the robot and a world for the robot to interact with. Could be interesting to bring something like this to RUR-PLE. > Also, I'm hoping the screen-based options become more visually > sophisticated, ala the Sims genre, i.e. we could script theater, > complete with dialog and sound, using Python (yes, this is Alice > territory). Nothing wrong with going into Alice territory. Squeak smalltalk has a 3D distributed environment called Croquet (http:// www.opencroquet.org/) which they are planning to hook up to Python in the near future (looking through their wiki and developer blogs, it looks like they've already integrated Python via their Babel component, and even developed their Wicket component with it, but that it needs further testing?). > Arthur, before you blow your stack, this theater or playhouse genre > isn't about learning or teaching programming necessarily. It's > about scripting plays and sharing them with your friends. In my case it is because my daughter wants to create her own games, animations, and art using the computer. She was fascinated by a screensaver I wrote and wants to make her own. I'm looking at RUR- PLE and other tools for making it easier for her to dive in. --Dethe > Programming is a prerequisite, but by the time you start animating > some Shakespeare play or whatever, we assume you've already got > those skills. > > Python is for people who already know how to program, not just for > those into learning how. > > An important fact to keep in mind, as we explore the space of > potentially marketable products. > > Kirby > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig Ninety percent of the technology hasn't even been developed yet. -- Tim Armstrong, Google From bmiller at luther.edu Sun Jan 29 19:02:28 2006 From: bmiller at luther.edu (Brad Miller) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:02:28 -0600 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> Message-ID: <1A57A366-9329-4AAC-A244-EC1DBCE504A0@luther.edu> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Jan 28, 2006, at 12:58 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > > Since Brad already has a moodle *and* content for it, and > pythonworks.org appears to be a fine name for it, I'm perfectly > willing to go with that. The offer for a moodle at livingcode still > stands if we find we need it for any reason (different grade levels, > more resources, whatever). > > Is everyone OK with this plan (especially Brad)? > I am happy to host and administer the moodle. I'm no expert moodle admin, but we use moodle extensively on campus so I know people who are. If you have a moodle site you want added let me know and I'll create an instructor account for you. It might be a nice idea to add a wiki or discussion group to your moodle to allow the community to comment and discuss the course. It would also be nice if there was a link within each moodle to the zip file that contains the backup. That way if someone wants to download and start using a moodle they can get started quickly. Will guest access be sufficient to let people poke around and view the contents of the moodles? We'll need to see how to make that work effectively. Brad > --Dethe > > PowerPoint can make almost anything appear good and look > professional. Quite frankly, I find that a little bit frightening. > --David Byrne > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFD3QM/t6pClM1VKiYRAlXqAKCk1EE+dmPQkmSDxnPAdkOnHGCxTgCg0w2Z 6pzrXKqFNnlrMkkJV/By5IY= =OS4/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 19:26:22 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 10:26:22 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <1A57A366-9329-4AAC-A244-EC1DBCE504A0@luther.edu> References: <0017F2ED-938E-4F54-9737-C57F893DD55B@livingcode.org> <3304057E-0C76-4003-94DC-1B2D9C799A3E@livingcode.org> <1A57A366-9329-4AAC-A244-EC1DBCE504A0@luther.edu> Message-ID: This all sounds very constructive. The suggestion to add a Wiki is great, and to make a link to some source point where updates to the moodle may be obtained. I'm still working on my Algebra with Python moodle. I don't have enough interactive resources. It's top heavy on framework, needs more hands-on exercises and stuff for people to actually *do*. Kirby > I am happy to host and administer the moodle. I'm no expert moodle > admin, but we use moodle extensively on campus so I know people who are. > > If you have a moodle site you want added let me know and I'll create > an instructor account for you. > > It might be a nice idea to add a wiki or discussion group to your > moodle to allow the community to comment and discuss the course. > > It would also be nice if there was a link within each moodle to the > zip file that contains the backup. That way if someone wants to > download and start using a moodle they can get started quickly. > > Will guest access be sufficient to let people poke around and view > the contents of the moodles? We'll need to see how to make that work > effectively. > > Brad > > > --Dethe > > > > PowerPoint can make almost anything appear good and look > > professional. Quite frankly, I find that a little bit frightening. > > --David Byrne > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Edu-sig mailing list > > Edu-sig at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFD3QM/t6pClM1VKiYRAlXqAKCk1EE+dmPQkmSDxnPAdkOnHGCxTgCg0w2Z > 6pzrXKqFNnlrMkkJV/By5IY= > =OS4/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/4be66ebb/attachment.htm From ajsiegel at optonline.net Sun Jan 29 19:38:18 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 13:38:18 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. In-Reply-To: References: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43DD0B9A.6040706@optonline.com> kirby urner wrote: > Hi Andre --- > > My plan is to introduce my daughter to Python using the robot theme. > Your curriculum is an obvious place to start. I will be starting a > more in depth investigation of your work in the near future. > > My longer term hope is to see some physical robot offerings on the > market (in addition to the screen based ones) with some kind of Python > capability -- perhaps just a module with pre-defined motions the user > might resequence or trigger based on events (sensor inputs), per Lego > Mindstorms example. > > Also, I'm hoping the screen-based options become more visually > sophisticated, ala the Sims genre, i.e. we could script theater, > complete with dialog and sound, using Python (yes, this is Alice > territory). > > Arthur, before you blow your stack, this theater or playhouse genre > isn't about learning or teaching programming necessarily. It's about > scripting plays and sharing them with your friends. What I would tend to blow my stack about is more the notion of pushing things off into to future... as if the barriers was technological. if: IDLE 1.1.2 >>> from visual import * >>> display(background=color.white) >>> sphere(color=color.blue) ain't enough to get a kid excited, the kid is simply jaded. A fancier technology - Croquet? - plays better to the jaded, perhaps. seems to me with some certainty that playing to jaded sensibilities is not the role that educators should play. > An important fact to keep in mind, as we explore the space of > potentially marketable products. didn't know we were. Art From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 20:06:28 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 11:06:28 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. In-Reply-To: <43DD0B9A.6040706@optonline.com> References: <7528bcdd0601281953g472db53ep77f8dddc36fb63d@mail.gmail.com> <43DD0B9A.6040706@optonline.com> Message-ID: > > if: > > IDLE 1.1.2 > >>> from visual import * > >>> display(background=color.white) > > >>> sphere(color=color.blue) > > > ain't enough to get a kid excited, the kid is simply jaded. > > A fancier technology - Croquet? - plays better to the jaded, perhaps. I understand your point and I think you've expressed it effectively. However, the Dragon Kit might be sold as such: a laboratory for scripting dragon behaviors, and sharing these creations with your friends online. You can even make them fight each other in cyber-arenas, which are firewalled to ensure no remote controlling i.e. your dragon competes on the merits of its code, with no last minute patches once the bout is in progress. However, other dragon ethusiasts would have little interest in arena-based dragon fights. They're more into intricate storytelling, complete with wizards, knights, the works. More like Shrek. Oh yeah, some programming required (says so on the box, little Python logo). But like duh, that's a given. All such toys require some kind of programming, that's what we went to school for, to learn from like you're showing above (VPython and so on, with lots of cross-references to other disciplines, no market-centric bias to push someone's bottom line). seems to me with some certainty that playing to jaded sensibilities is > not the role that educators should play. > > > An important fact to keep in mind, as we explore the space of > > potentially marketable products. > > didn't know we were. > > Art > > I routinely rope in commercial products for their educational value, including but not limited to computer games and simulations. It's important for our family that we have access to toyz. I actively stimulate the imaginations of toy makes with descriptions of what we'd likely buy, and charge on our Platinum Amazon Visa, which I just signed for while buying Tara a new robot dog with her own money (the 16+% variable APR is pretty outrageous -- thinking mainly of the promotional discount, which turned out not to apply, as this was a pass through from Toys R Us, and therefore apparently not qualified). Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/d00a9eba/attachment-0001.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Sun Jan 29 21:51:56 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 12:51:56 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] moodle thread outcomes (4D Studios) Message-ID: This link to Math Forum @ Drexel shows how this Moodle thread has been a good experience for me: http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=4229415&tstart=0 I now have a good model for courseware distribution: create a host, subscribe to teacher feeds (your choices will reflect your values in some way), then add yourself as a teacher on your own faculty, when you feel ready. Invite subscribers. And so on. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/e3662b04/attachment.htm From ajsiegel at optonline.net Sun Jan 29 22:32:44 2006 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:32:44 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. Message-ID: <001201c6251b$8afbcba0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> From: kirby urner [mailto:kirby.urner at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:06 PM >I routinely rope in commercial products for their educational value, including but not limited to computer games and >simulations. It's important for our family that we have access to toyz. I actively stimulate the imaginations of toy >makes with descriptions of what we'd likely buy, and charge on our Platinum Amazon Visa, which I just signed for while >buying Tara a new robot dog with her own money (the 16+% variable APR is pretty outrageous -- thinking mainly of the >promotional discount, which turned out not to apply, as this was a pass through from Toys R Us, and therefore apparently >not qualified). Good American ;) Forgive me my relentlessly adversarial stance. But I was a misunderstood child, you see. My father was the poor boy, who was able to provide me with some advantages. Like nice toys. Would drive him crazy that I wouldn't "take better care of them". The evidence was certainly there - the toy in pieces. But the toys actually sucked - and the only interest I had in them was taking them apart, to see how they worked, and for scrap parts to build some whozeewhatsit (that never quite worked). The spirit isn't dead. Last month instead of showing up to the extended family holiday party with gifts, I offered to take the kids shopping the following morning. A cousin is a glassblower living a pretty Spartan/ low tech existence out in the country. His youngest insisted he wanted to shop at a hardware store - where he went through the isles picking out odd pieces of this and that - whozeewhatsit components, quite enviously. Not an electronic component among them. PyGeo is, I guess, by current whozeewhatsit. The fact that it happens to rely on some electronic underpinning being mostly happenstance. Art From andre.roberge at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 00:42:26 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:42:26 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] ANN: Rur-ple lessons 0.36 Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601291542g16fc57ddjbc05d8c2f11d56a7@mail.gmail.com> Announcing RUR-PLE lessons 0.36 RUR-PLE stands for Roberge's Used Robot: a Python Learning Environment. This is the first official release of the lessons, separately from the application. The lessons are intended as a somewhat non-typical introduction to programming using Python, that has been used for other languages (just google "Karel Robot" for some examples). The version number (0.36) indicates that 36 complete lessons (plus a few more incomplete ones) are included. The complete introduction to Python (version 1.0) will probably include 50 lessons in total. This version contains more than 50% more material than what is included in the latest rur-ple release on sourceforge. A link to the download page can be found at http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net ===== In 1981, Richard Pattis introduced "Karel the Robot" as a tool to teach computer programming. Reeborg is a robot built on the 1981 Pattis' model... and it is starting to show its age. It has an oil leak, which allows us to follow its trail. Its compass is broken; it only knows if it is facing north or not, unlike Karel who could determine its orientation with respect to all four cardinal points. Pattis' Karel the Robot was named after the author Karel Capek, who popularized the word robot in his play Rossum's Universal Robots (RUR). While RUR-PLE shares the basic RUR acronym, in this case it stands for Roberge's Used Robot. However, through the magic of Guido van Rossum's Python, you can learn how to fix it and design a better one, worthy of the name Rossum's Universal Robot. From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 00:53:40 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 15:53:40 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] [ANN] rur-ple: pre-release of new lessons. In-Reply-To: <001201c6251b$8afbcba0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> References: <001201c6251b$8afbcba0$1702a8c0@BasementDell> Message-ID: On 1/29/06, Arthur wrote: > > From: kirby urner [mailto:kirby.urner at gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 2:06 PM > > Forgive me my relentlessly adversarial stance. But I was a misunderstood > child, you see. My father was the poor boy, who was able to provide me > with > some advantages. Like nice toys. Would drive him crazy that I wouldn't > "take better care of them". The evidence was certainly there - the toy in > pieces. Good autobio. I can also see why this might predispose you to appreciate the open source approach, where the guts are within reach, and if you don't like how your Tivo is programmed or whatever, you can just hack on it. That's the spirit behind O'Reilly's Make: magazine for sure -- seems you would have loved a subscription, might even today. Other products come sealed up tight with a lot of warnings, and trying to get to the guts voids the waranty or whatever. Some might rather reverse engineer, and damage the goods beyond repair anyway, because the working version isn't as valuable as the non-working version with the guts exposed (to them). You get into tense family dynamics when you have say a brother with a little sister, and the boy likes to take apart sister's favorite gizmos, to say "what makes them tick" (but he of course lacks the skills to put humpty dumpty together again). Obviously, parental intervention is in order. Or maybe it's the girl who's training to become an astronaut, and who keeps making off with the brother's boy toys to do secret projects with them. One day, her hide-out is discovered... (many story-lines diverge). Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/18e1120f/attachment.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 01:36:20 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 16:36:20 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] ANN: Rur-ple lessons 0.36 In-Reply-To: <7528bcdd0601291542g16fc57ddjbc05d8c2f11d56a7@mail.gmail.com> References: <7528bcdd0601291542g16fc57ddjbc05d8c2f11d56a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Andre -- I'm going through this first lesson 0.36, not having installed the full wx in this particular Windows machine. I'm very impressed by the quality of these materials, in terms of their graphical sophistication. I also like the multi-lingual approach. That's something missing from most USA-based curricula: any attempt to blend in more than one language (it's either all English, or all something else, but rarely a blend). Kirby On 1/29/06, Andre Roberge wrote: > > Announcing RUR-PLE lessons 0.36 > > RUR-PLE stands for Roberge's Used Robot: a Python Learning Environment. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/1a408dc9/attachment.html From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 05:04:34 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2006 20:04:34 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Raw moodle content for Moodle testing now available Message-ID: OK, I uploaded two Python courses I'm working on for Portland Public Schools, via the Winterhaven facility. Neither is complete, i.e. I'm actively adding to both. These are snapshots. They're basically XML (moodle.xml) within zips. In once case, I've also got two picture files. Per my recent post, the teacher section normally contains username and encrypted password. I've removed the password, leaving an empty tag. The username is still kurner. The files: Geonumeracy (very sketchy, just started today, but is closer to what I've actually been teaching) http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup-cs100-20060129-2054.zip (Python with Algebra, definitely a prototype) http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup-cs201-20060129-2052.zip If anyone gets one or both of these hosted in a Moodle and can provide a guest account, I have a group in South Africa I'd like to share the guest login with. Then I won't need to wait for Winterhaven. I'm curious to see the outcome of this experiment. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060129/2b7940a5/attachment.htm From bmiller at luther.edu Mon Jan 30 14:16:24 2006 From: bmiller at luther.edu (Brad Miller) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:16:24 -0600 Subject: [Edu-sig] Raw moodle content for Moodle testing now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Both are available for guest access at http://www.pythonworks.org/moodle If you go there you should see three courses, all should be available for viewing by guests. Brad On Jan 29, 2006, at 10:04 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > OK, I uploaded two Python courses I'm working on for Portland > Public Schools, via the Winterhaven facility. Neither is complete, > i.e. I'm actively adding to both. These are snapshots. > > They're basically XML ( moodle.xml) within zips. In once case, > I've also got two picture files. > > Per my recent post, the teacher section normally contains username > and encrypted password. I've removed the password, leaving an > empty tag. The username is still kurner. > > The files: > > Geonumeracy (very sketchy, just started today, but is closer to > what I've actually been teaching) > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup- > cs100-20060129-2054.zip > > (Python with Algebra, definitely a prototype) > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup- > cs201-20060129-2052.zip > > If anyone gets one or both of these hosted in a Moodle and can > provide a guest account, I have a group in South Africa I'd like to > share the guest login with. Then I won't need to wait for > Winterhaven. > > I'm curious to see the outcome of this experiment. > > Kirby > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060130/4ee94b8c/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060130/4ee94b8c/attachment.pgp From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 18:40:52 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:40:52 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python-Only Moodle? In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20060129094417.01f9e988@mapledesign.co.uk> References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060129094417.01f9e988@mapledesign.co.uk> Message-ID: I don't see it as either / or. I'm going ahead with Moodle simply because that's what my school district uses. But that doesn't predispose me to think other solutions are inferior. On the contrary, I think Moodle is just the beginning. Kirby On 1/30/06, Peter Bowyer wrote: > > At 04:12 28/01/2006, kirby urner wrote: > >Here's an idea. Given a lot of us teach Python, plan to, or have > >ideas for doing so, if we had shared access to a Python Moodle > >someplace, we could develop open source courseware, either as > >individuals or in teams. > > A central site would be great. However I'm wondering if Moodle is > the right tool? I've played with it through their online demo, and > did not find it easy to navigate or use the course material. There > did not seem to be a way to author structured and interlinked course > material. > > Might not a wiki such as MoinMoin be a better option (as Scipy are > using for their new site)? > > Peter > > -- > Maple Design - quality web design and programming > http://www.mapledesign.co.uk > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060130/b92e0834/attachment.htm From kirby.urner at gmail.com Mon Jan 30 18:43:53 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 09:43:53 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Raw moodle content for Moodle testing now available In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Excellent. I've sent the URL along to shuttleworthfoundation.org http://wiki.tsf.org.za/shuttleworthfoundationwiki/ClassroomCoders This is an interesting project in that it relies on peer-to-peer with teachers as expert facilitators, but not necessarily authorities on the subject material, which gets imported through various channels, remixed, and sent back out to eager beaver peers. Kirby On 1/30/06, Brad Miller wrote: > > Both are available for guest access athttp://www.pythonworks.org/moodle > > If you go there you should see three courses, all should be available for > viewing by guests. > > Brad > > On Jan 29, 2006, at 10:04 PM, kirby urner wrote: > > > OK, I uploaded two Python courses I'm working on for Portland Public > Schools, via the Winterhaven facility. Neither is complete, i.e. I'm > actively adding to both. These are snapshots. > > They're basically XML ( moodle.xml) within zips. In once case, I've also > got two picture files. > > Per my recent post, the teacher section normally contains username and > encrypted password. I've removed the password, leaving an empty > tag. The username is still kurner. > > The files: > > Geonumeracy (very sketchy, just started today, but is closer to what I've > actually been teaching) > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup-cs100-20060129-2054.zip > > (Python with Algebra, definitely a prototype) > http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/winterhaven/backup-cs201-20060129-2052.zip > > If anyone gets one or both of these hosted in a Moodle and can provide a > guest account, I have a group in South Africa I'd like to share the guest > login with. Then I won't need to wait for Winterhaven. > > I'm curious to see the outcome of this experiment. > > Kirby > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060130/9f0230fd/attachment.html From mark.engelberg at alumni.rice.edu Mon Jan 30 19:51:04 2006 From: mark.engelberg at alumni.rice.edu (Mark Engelberg) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:51:04 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python/Gecode - was "The study of fixed points has been at the foundation of algorithms" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > An other area where I've been exposed ot fixed points is concurrent > constraint programming where constraint propagators are applied to a > computation space until a fixed point is reached (see for instance > http://www.gecode.org/ for a Open source implementation). Does anyone know if Python bindings for the gecode library is in development? I could really use this on a project I'm working on. Thanks, Mark From kirby.urner at gmail.com Tue Jan 31 02:13:37 2006 From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:13:37 -0800 Subject: [Edu-sig] Moodling right along... Message-ID: I've implemented Brad Miller's suggestion of linking back to the source from within the moodle itself. In both courses, I've got an Update Me! resource with a date stamp for the current version and a link to my server. Any Moodle manager should now be able to compare dates and restore an update (or not per whatever policies). I added a "Yak Shack" (Wiki) to both courses as well (another thing Brad suggested). http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/moodles/ Now that these pieces are in place, I don't expect to publish updates all that often. Once a month maybe? We shall see. Kirby -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20060130/349d569d/attachment.html From andre.roberge at gmail.com Tue Jan 31 04:13:56 2006 From: andre.roberge at gmail.com (Andre Roberge) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 23:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] ANN: Rur-ple 0.95 has been released Message-ID: <7528bcdd0601301913o1588960fud839d4b888fe6228@mail.gmail.com> RUR-PLE 0.95 has been released. A link to the download page can be found at http://rur-ple.sourceforge.net (The site is slightly out of date, and there is no plan to update it in the future as it provides an excellent idea of what RUR-PLE is about.) This new version contains a few bug fixes and it should now work properly on MacOS. wxPython 2.6+ is strongly recommmended. There has been a few minor changes in the robot instructions, and the lessons has undergone some major changes. RUR-PLE stands for Roberge's Used Robot: a Python Learning Environment. This learning environment contains four main elements: 1. A simple html browser to look at the documentation and, potentially, the lessons. However, the new lessons use cascading style sheets which cannot be interpreted correctly by the browser. Usage of an external browser (Firefox :-) is strongly recommended. 2. A "robot world" with a robot that can accomplish tasks through Python programs. 3. A built-in interpreter which can be used to play with Python 4. A built-in file editor which can be used for futher Python explorations. The interface is available in English, French and Spanish. Translations are welcome! Version 0.95 contains 36 complete lessons (English version only). The lessons are also available as a separate download. Version 1.0, which will aim to be a "complete" Python tutorial for people that have never programmed before, should have approximately 50 lessons. A few "bonus" lessons have been included. In particular, it is suggested that you have a look at "A Robotic Fairy Tale". ===== In 1981, Richard Pattis introduced "Karel the Robot" as a tool to teach computer programming. Reeborg is a robot built on the 1981 Pattis' model... and it is starting to show its age. It has an oil leak, which allows us to follow its trail. Its compass is broken; it only knows if it is facing north or not, unlike Karel who could determine its orientation with respect to all four cardinal points. Pattis' Karel the Robot was named after the author Karel Capek, who popularized the word robot in his play Rossum's Universal Robots (RUR). While RUR-PLE shares the basic RUR acronym, in this case it stands for Roberge's Used Robot. However, through the magic of Guido van Rossum's Python, you can learn how to fix it and design a better one, worthy of the name Rossum's Universal Robot. ==== If you've read this far... Version 0.95 contains a new feature, which has been made available as a separate download: lightning.py This is a cross between a Python editor and a Python interpreter. Just enter a script in the Editor window, press "run", and you get the result in the output window. It handles input() and raw_input() through dialogs. I like it so much, that I submitted a simplified version to the online Python cookbook. From dooms at info.ucl.ac.be Tue Jan 31 10:39:13 2006 From: dooms at info.ucl.ac.be (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?=) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:39:13 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python/Gecode - was "The study of fixed points has been at the foundation of algorithms" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43DF3041.3070902@info.ucl.ac.be> Mark Engelberg a ?crit : >>An other area where I've been exposed ot fixed points is concurrent >>constraint programming where constraint propagators are applied to a >>computation space until a fixed point is reached (see for instance >>http://www.gecode.org/ for a Open source implementation). >> >> > >Does anyone know if Python bindings for the gecode library is in >development? I could really use this on a project I'm working on. > > I know this request is shared by several (current and potential) users of gecode. I don't have the time to develop one before summer but I am (and will be) trying to convince others to do it before. It might be easy to do by starting from the SWIG generated JAVA wrapper which is currently under development. On the other hand Logilab.fr provides a Python-only constraint programming lib based on the Mozart/Gecode idea of computation spaces and cloning. But beware it is very preliminary: the only propagator available is a generic, enumeration based, forward checking algo. HTH, -- Gr?goire From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 31 16:12:26 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:12:26 +0100 Subject: [Edu-sig] Python/Gecode - was "The study of fixed points has been at the foundation of algorithms" In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Dooms?= of "Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:39:13 +0100." <43DF3041.3070902@info.ucl.ac.be> References: <43DF3041.3070902@info.ucl.ac.be> Message-ID: <200601311512.k0VFCQdQ017313@theraft.strakt.com> There is also Gustavo Niemeyer's python-constraint package, which is also very preliminary. http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2005-July/004153.html Laura In a message of Tue, 31 Jan 2006 10:39:13 +0100, Gr?goire Dooms writes: >Mark Engelberg a ?crit : > >>>An other area where I've been exposed ot fixed points is concurrent >>>constraint programming where constraint propagators are applied to a >>>computation space until a fixed point is reached (see for instance >>>http://www.gecode.org/ for a Open source implementation). >>> >>> >> >>Does anyone know if Python bindings for the gecode library is in >>development? I could really use this on a project I'm working on. >> >> >I know this request is shared by several (current and potential) users >of gecode. >I don't have the time to develop one before summer but I am (and will >be) trying to convince others to do it before. >It might be easy to do by starting from the SWIG generated JAVA wrapper >which is currently under development. >On the other hand Logilab.fr provides a Python-only constraint >programming lib based on the Mozart/Gecode idea of computation spaces >and cloning. But beware it is very preliminary: the only propagator >available is a generic, enumeration based, forward checking algo. > >HTH, >-- >Gr?goire > >_______________________________________________ >Edu-sig mailing list >Edu-sig at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig