From ajsiegel at optonline.net Tue Jun 1 14:18:55 2004 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Tue Jun 1 14:18:58 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0HYN00A3R6VLQS@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> > -----Original Message----- > From: edu-sig-bounces@python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces@python.org] On > Behalf Of Scott David Daniels > Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 4:04 PM > To: edu-sig@python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython > I looked over the code I thought I had re-done, and it was not > what I remembered working on. Here is a working version that > doesn't build up a massive string, but rather writes to a destination. > If you need a destination, make a CStringIO and use it. It would > be fun to try and mix this with the PyGeo code. I gave it a whirl with PyGeo. About the furthest I've ever gotten into string processing (not fun to me) was my effort to follow and extend Ruth's povexport.py code. So that I am not sure I follow what you are accomplishing versus the "stock" code. I did end up writing to a file your version and my modified version of Ruth's, and notice that while they are in substance the same, yours is more coherently formatted. Which is significant if one wants, as I sometimes do, to do some hand editing to an export file. I can't swear that the formatting issues I see in my version are Ruth's issue, or something I cause by my futzing with it. Could you explain better the "use case" difference between your version and Ruth's? 2 BTWs: 1. I seemed to have needed to change AttributeError to KeyError on line 344. 2. The functionality I would like to see is PovRay automatically called to render the exported code - rather than requiring a separate look for the file and call to PovRay. At a practical level, this would provide for a more coherent workflow - looking at what you got and redoing it until you have it as you want to see it. But I don't have the confidence that I could accomplish this sensibly in a crossplatform way, that would fail gracefully, not require config files (where is the pvengine executable?), etc. Any thoughts? Art From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Tue Jun 1 23:01:47 2004 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Tue Jun 1 23:01:05 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: <0HYN00A3R6VLQS@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> References: <0HYN00A3R6VLQS@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Message-ID: Arthur wrote: >>I looked over the code I thought I had re-done, and it was not >>what I remembered working on. Here is a working version that >>doesn't build up a massive string, but rather writes to a destination. >>If you need a destination, make a CStringIO and use it. It would >>be fun to try and mix this with the PyGeo code. OK, I sure mangled that explanation. I should have said: If you need a string, use a CStringIO as the destination and unpack when done. > I gave it a whirl with PyGeo. > > About the furthest I've ever gotten into string processing (not fun to me) > was my effort to follow and extend Ruth's povexport.py code. So that I am > not sure I follow what you are accomplishing versus the "stock" code. > ... Could you explain better the "use case" difference between your > version and Ruth's? I have images with tens of thousands of truncated torii. The torii get turned into curves, and the resultant file is massive. Unfortunately, the N**2 effect of string concatenation was making these runs take a _long_ time. > 2 BTWs: > > 1. I seemed to have needed to change AttributeError to KeyError on line 344. Most likely correct. > 2. The functionality I would like to see is PovRay automatically called to > render the exported code - rather than requiring a separate look for the > file and call to PovRay. At a practical level, this would provide for a > more coherent workflow - looking at what you got and redoing it until you > have it as you want to see it. But I don't have the confidence that I could > accomplish this sensibly in a crossplatform way, that would fail gracefully, > not require config files (where is the pvengine executable?), etc. Any > thoughts? I do know the pov-ray people have been pretty insistent on making sure nobody repackages it in a way you don't see their interface. I think we'd need to wait for the repackaging they are in the midst of. -Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels@Acm.Org From urnerk at qwest.net Tue Jun 1 23:16:55 2004 From: urnerk at qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Tue Jun 1 23:17:00 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > 2. The functionality I would like to see is PovRay automatically called > to > > render the exported code - rather than requiring a separate look for the > > file and call to PovRay. At a practical level, this would provide for a > > more coherent workflow - looking at what you got and redoing it until > you > > have it as you want to see it. But I don't have the confidence that I > could > > accomplish this sensibly in a crossplatform way, that would fail > gracefully, > > not require config files (where is the pvengine executable?), etc. Any > > thoughts? > I do know the pov-ray people have been pretty insistent on making sure > nobody repackages it in a way you don't see their interface. I think > we'd need to wait for the repackaging they are in the midst of. > > -Scott David Daniels > Scott.Daniels@Acm.Org I think it's fine to invoke povray from within Python using os.system or some such. Povray remains an independent program with its own identity. I have a pov.py that looks like this, which might give some ideas. But yes, in this version the paths to the pvengine are hardcoded. It'd take some doing (not a lot) to make this more friendly to configure (not my need at this time). But at least I test for which operating system (no Mac option as yet). def render(filename="default.pov"): if os.name == 'linux2': linuxcomm = "povray +V +W640 +H480 +FN16 +AM2 +Q9 +A0.3 +P +L/home/urnerk/include" print "Rendering... (this will take some time)" os.system(linuxcomm+" +I"+filename) if os.name == 'nt': wincomm = '"c:\\program files\\POV-Ray for Windows v3.5\\bin\\pvengine" -V fpp.ini' print "Rendering... (this will take some time)" # os.system(wincomm+" +I"+filename) os.system(wincomm) Note -- the fpp.ini thing shows another way to invoke povray, with all the command line settings pre-saved in a file (which my Python code also happens to write). Kirby From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Wed Jun 2 09:26:26 2004 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Wed Jun 2 09:25:37 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirby Urner wrote: >>I do know the pov-ray people have been pretty insistent on making sure >>nobody repackages it in a way you don't see their interface. I think >>we'd need to wait for the repackaging they are in the midst of. > I think it's fine to invoke povray from within Python using os.system > or some such. Povray remains an independent program with its own > identity. I know we are free individually to make these changes. However, I'd like some clarification to verify the command-line thing-ami-bob would not incur their ire (I'm unclear where they draw the line, and they have felt very burned at least a few times). > I have a pov.py that looks like this, which might give some ideas. But yes, > in this version the paths to the pvengine are hardcoded. It'd take some > doing (not a lot) to make this more friendly to configure (not my need at > this time). But at least I test for which operating system (no Mac option > as yet). > > def render(filename="default.pov"): > if os.name == 'linux2': > linuxcomm = "povray +V +W640 +H480 +FN16 +AM2 +Q9 +A0.3 +P > +L/home/urnerk/include" > print "Rendering... (this will take some time)" > os.system(linuxcomm+" +I"+filename) > > if os.name == 'nt': > wincomm = '"c:\\program files\\POV-Ray for Windows > v3.5\\bin\\pvengine" -V fpp.ini' > print "Rendering... (this will take some time)" > # os.system(wincomm+" +I"+filename) > os.system(wincomm) How about something like: def render(filename="default.pov"): if os.name == 'linux2': cmd = ("povray +V +W640 +H480 +FN16 +AM2 " "+Q9 +A0.3 +P +L/home/urnerk/include +I" + filename) elif os.name == 'nt': cmd = ('"c:\\program files\\POV-Ray for ' 'Windows v3.5\\bin\\pvengine" -V fpp.ini') # or use r'HKLM\SOFTWARE\Classes\Applications' # r'\pvengine.exe\shell\RenderAndExit\command' else: raise NotImplementedError, 'Not ready for os %r' % os.name print "Rendering... (this will take some time)" os.system(cmd) -Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels@Acm.Org From urnerk at qwest.net Wed Jun 2 17:48:08 2004 From: urnerk at qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Wed Jun 2 17:48:13 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I know we are free individually to make these changes. However, I'd > like some clarification to verify the command-line thing-ami-bob would > not incur their ire (I'm unclear where they draw the line, and they > have felt very burned at least a few times). > I suppose one might ask them. I'm not touching their source code, nor changing povray in any way. I'm just using it as I would /any/ unix command line program. To say you don't want to be used in this way is to say you don't really want to be part of unix/linux -- but since they've compiled a version for us, it seems to me that's not really their concern. Also, in linux, there's no official UI other than the command line (in Windows, there's a cool graphical UI). > > How about something like: << SNIP >> Looks good to me. Kirby From Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org Thu Jun 3 08:26:40 2004 From: Scott.Daniels at Acm.Org (Scott David Daniels) Date: Thu Jun 3 08:25:48 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Kirby Urner wrote: >>... I'd like some clarification to verify the command-line thing-ami-bob >>would not incur their ire (I'm unclear where they draw the line, and they >>have felt very burned at least a few times).... > I suppose one might ask them.... I'm just using it as I would /any/ unix > command line program.... Ah... I agree there is little to do on unix. I thought you were doing NT / 2K / XP / .... Do you know who I should contact (I expect the answer is sure)? -Scott David Daniels Scott.Daniels@Acm.Org From urnerk at qwest.net Thu Jun 3 10:33:07 2004 From: urnerk at qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu Jun 3 10:33:12 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Ah... I agree there is little to do on unix. I thought you were doing > NT / 2K / XP / .... Do you know who I should contact (I expect the > answer is sure)? > > -Scott David Daniels > Scott.Daniels@Acm.Org Not sure whom to contact, but I bet povray.org gives some ideas. I /do/ sometimes invoke pvengine on a Windows machine the same way. I'm automating animations, doing 270-300 frames over a few hours, with Python generating the povray .inc files from a spreadsheet (where the bulk of the information is saved). My goal is to have the same process work on either platform. But in distributing this code, I wouldn't try to distribute povray as something hidden or behind the scenes. I'd just say "get POV-Ray and install it -- you can use it for *lot's* of other things, then enter a path to it here: [ ]." Kirby From david at handysoftware.com Thu Jun 3 12:47:04 2004 From: david at handysoftware.com (David Handy) Date: Thu Jun 3 12:45:10 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: <200406031433.i53EXEwc027676@handysoftware.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Kirby Urner wrote: > I'm > automating animations, doing 270-300 frames over a few hours, with Python > generating the povray .inc files from a spreadsheet (where the bulk of the > information is saved). That sounds so cool! What program are you using to put the frames together into a movie? What is the final file format? From urnerk at qwest.net Thu Jun 3 18:47:19 2004 From: urnerk at qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu Jun 3 18:47:26 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On linux, I generate .tga files from povray, and make them into a movie using mencoder, which comes with mplayer (the "do everything" media player out of Hungary). On Windows, I generate .bmp files from povray, and use a free utility called bmp2avi.exe. An advantage of the mencoder route is it'll compress to DivX directly (or is it MPEG4? -- in any case a very tight/compressed format), whereas on Windows, the .avi output files are simply huge (like 300 meg), meaning I need to compress them further with Dr. DivX (comes out about 1.5 meg) -- proprietary and paid for. Examples of the animations I'm doing with Python + Povray are at ftp://www.4dsolutions.net/pub (the raw data comes from sensors strapped to the body of a dancer, who does her moves while a numbers stream to a file -- which files I get, after cleaning, in spreadsheet format). However, in order to view them, you have to be able to play DivX -- a codec Windows doesn't come with natively (mplayer on linux should have no problem). A solution is to download the (free and open source) VLC player from Videolan (www.videolan.org <-- .org, not .com). This will play the animations at my ftp site. There's an OSX version of VLC too I think. Kirby > -----Original Message----- > From: edu-sig-bounces@python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces@python.org] On > Behalf Of David Handy > Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 9:47 AM > To: Kirby Urner > Cc: edu-sig@python.org > Subject: RE: [Edu-sig] Re: VPython > > On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Kirby Urner wrote: > > > I'm > > automating animations, doing 270-300 frames over a few hours, with > Python > > generating the povray .inc files from a spreadsheet (where the bulk of > the > > information is saved). > > That sounds so cool! What program are you using to put the frames together > into a movie? What is the final file format? > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From lgrandel at abo.fi Thu Jun 10 10:18:48 2004 From: lgrandel at abo.fi (Linda Grandell) Date: Thu Jun 10 10:20:35 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] How to evaluate programming skills, are there any international benchmarks? Message-ID: <40C86DC8.2010309@abo.fi> Hello everybody, I have been going through the edu-sig archive for a couple of months now; there is really a lot to read and learn in there. I work at the Department of Computer Science at ?bo Akademi University in Turku, Finland. For the last two years I have been active in a project, whose aim is to acquaint high school students with computer science, since no true computer science education is available to them otherwise. While working with these high school students I have realized how important it would be for them to get a true and correct conception of what computer science is all about. I think the idea of CP4E, proposed by Guido van Rossum, is very good. I believe that everybody (not only future computer scientist) would gain from knowing how to program, due to the meta skills learned in the process. When one learns to program one also acquires knowledge in how to solve problems, think logically, methodically and algorithmically. I think the basic education in computer science has not been given enough attention; in my opinion the basic computer science courses should have high priority, since they act as starting points into the field. I feel that programming should be taught in high schools, since these should provide all-round learning and ensure that the students receive the skills and knowledge needed for further study and in life in general. The reason I am telling you all this is to set some kind of background to what I want to ask you about. I am about to engage myself in research as a PhD-student, focusing on how programming and algorithmic thinking can be taught to high school students. I have been very fascinated by Python, and have decided to use that as the first thing to try out in order to get some results on how high school students should (or shouldn't :) be taught. I will start by developing a course in Python that I will give to newbies in high schools. I have not had any problem in finding material for the course, but what I do see as a problem is how I should go about evaluating the course. Since I am aiming at a PhD, I would, naturally, like to be able to extract some information about whether the course promoted the problem solving, programming and algorithmic thinking skills of the students. Since there are a lot of different persons on this mailing list, I thought it would be a good idea to write down my ponderings here. * Have anybody else done anything like what I am about to do? I would really like to hear about your experiences. * Are there any international benchmarks one can use to measure the results of this kind of an "experiment"? What should be measured and how? * What kind of research methods can and should be used? * The course will contain about 28-30 hours; I have a feeling that we will be able to cover much more programming theory using Python than, for instance, Java, but does anybody have an idea about how far we could get in that time? I am very enthusiastic about this project and I am really looking forward to giving the course. I am grateful for any answers, thoughts and advice you can give me. Best regards, Linda Grandell ?bo Akademi University Turku, Finland From delza at blastradius.com Thu Jun 10 14:20:13 2004 From: delza at blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Thu Jun 10 14:20:32 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Vancouver Python Workshop Message-ID: Hi folks, Thought some of you, especially those on the west coast of North America, might be interested in this. http://www.vanpyz.org/conference/ The Vancouver Python Workshop (VPW) will be held in beautiful Vancouver, Canada on July 31 to August 2, 2004. The keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, creator of Python, and Paul Everitt, founder of Zope. Many other Python luminaries will speak and attend. I'm not a Python luminary, being more of the lurking persuasion, but there's a good chance I'll be presenting on PyGame. I hope to meet some of you face to face there. --Dethe -- Dethe Elza, Technical Architect BLAST RADIUS STRATEGYTECHNOLOGYDESIGN www.blastradius.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2371 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/edu-sig/attachments/20040610/428c60c2/smime.bin From marilyn at deliberate.com Thu Jun 10 20:40:44 2004 From: marilyn at deliberate.com (Marilyn Davis) Date: Thu Jun 10 20:40:52 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] How to evaluate programming skills, are there any international benchmarks? In-Reply-To: <40C86DC8.2010309@abo.fi> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Linda Grandell wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I have been going through the edu-sig archive for a couple of months > now; there is really a lot to read and learn in there. > > I work at the Department of Computer Science at ?bo Akademi University > in Turku, Finland. For the last two years I have been active in a > project, whose aim is to acquaint high school students with computer > science, since no true computer science education is available to them > otherwise. While working with these high school students I have realized > how important it would be for them to get a true and correct conception > of what computer science is all about. I think the idea of CP4E, > proposed by Guido van Rossum, is very good. I believe that everybody > (not only future computer scientist) would gain from knowing how to > program, due to the meta skills learned in the process. When one learns > to program one also acquires knowledge in how to solve problems, think > logically, methodically and algorithmically. > > I think the basic education in computer science has not been given > enough attention; in my opinion the basic computer science courses > should have high priority, since they act as starting points into the > field. I feel that programming should be taught in high schools, since > these should provide all-round learning and ensure that the students > receive the skills and knowledge needed for further study and in life in > general. > > The reason I am telling you all this is to set some kind of background > to what I want to ask you about. I am about to engage myself in research > as a PhD-student, focusing on how programming and algorithmic thinking > can be taught to high school students. I have been very fascinated by > Python, and have decided to use that as the first thing to try out in > order to get some results on how high school students should (or > shouldn't :) be taught. > > I will start by developing a course in Python that I will give to > newbies in high schools. I have not had any problem in finding material > for the course, but what I do see as a problem is how I should go about > evaluating the course. Since I am aiming at a PhD, I would, naturally, > like to be able to extract some information about whether the course > promoted the problem solving, programming and algorithmic thinking > skills of the students. Since there are a lot of different persons on > this mailing list, I thought it would be a good idea to write down my > ponderings here. > > * Have anybody else done anything like what I am about to do? I would > really like to hear about your experiences. > > * Are there any international benchmarks one can use to measure the > results of this kind of an "experiment"? What should be measured and how? Hi Linda, Good luck with your research. I teach Python, and I teach high school students, but I haven't taught Python to high school students. I think it would be the best combo. I teach students that the point of programming language is to communicate with other engineers in a language that also the computer understands. When I evaluate their programs, whether or not the program runs is almost irrelevant. That the code is easy to read, well-structured, well-chosen identifier names, ... is everything. I grade their programs as if I was grading poetry or art. If there is pleasure in reading a program, it is a good program. If it is frustrating to read, it's bad code. Also, I give a really low score for students who do not follow the specification exactly. While I encourage experimentation in general, when they are submitting a program for a grade, I insist that they make every effort to have nothing extra in it, and that the code follows the specification exactly. These are important for production code at work. My students seem to like me anyway. :^) > > * What kind of research methods can and should be used? > > * The course will contain about 28-30 hours; I have a feeling that we 30 hours goes by in a snap for students who are programming in Python. > will be able to cover much more programming theory using Python than, > for instance, Java, but does anybody have an idea about how far we could > get in that time? > > I am very enthusiastic about this project and I am really looking > forward to giving the course. I am grateful for any answers, thoughts > and advice you can give me. > > Best regards, Good luck!!! Marilyn Davis > > Linda Grandell > ?bo Akademi University > Turku, Finland > > > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > -- From ajsiegel at optonline.net Mon Jun 14 20:47:05 2004 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Mon Jun 14 20:47:45 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] T.C. MItts Message-ID: <0HZB00FB8RIJLN@mta9.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> I wandered into a little gem of a book, and thought I'd share a reference to it here, as I think it to have bearing. The Education of T.C MITS What modern mathematics means to you By Lillian R. Lieber Drawings by High Gray Lieber Copyright 1942,1944 renewed 1972 W.W. Notton & Company. Inc. >From the preface (trying to be true to the typographical structure): """ "The past is antiquated You must be progressive." "The past as wonderful, The new-fangled fads are A sign of decadence" ... Oh, we know you do not like Mathematics, But We promise not to use it as an instrument of torture but to show what bearing it may have on the contradictory advice mentioned above, as well as on such things as: Democracy Freedom and License Pride and Prejudice Success Isolationism Preparedness Tradition Progress Idealism Common Sense Human Nature War Self-reliance Humility Tolerance Provincialism Anarchy Loyalty Abstract Art And so on. """ The authors, methodology for communication: """ To do this VIVIDLY, we use pictures whenever possible. And top do it CLEARLY, we use the clearest language man has invented: Mathematics. """ She also apparently wrote a wonderful book on Relativity, which I have ordered (paying dearly for a vintage copy). She would be bruised to think that, I think, that women have less of an interest in these subjects than men. Art From sandysj at juno.com Wed Jun 16 11:25:49 2004 From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys) Date: Thu Jun 17 15:17:38 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] How to evaluate programming skills, are there any inte rnational benchmarks? Message-ID: <20040616.082623.386.3078@webmail12.nyc.untd.com> > ... > The reason I am telling you all this is to set some kind of > background to what I want to ask you about. I am about to engage > myself in research as a PhD-student, focusing on how programming > and algorithmic thinking can be taught to high school students. > I have been very fascinated by Python, and have decided to use > that as the first thing to try out in order to get some results > on how high school students should (or shouldn't :) be taught. > ... Linda, As a PhD candidate you must have some theories on how high school students should or shouldn't be taught. Would you care to share? What experiments do you plan to do to test you hypothesis? Thanks, Jeff Sandys ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! From lgrandel at abo.fi Fri Jun 18 07:24:47 2004 From: lgrandel at abo.fi (Linda Grandell) Date: Mon Jun 21 00:27:35 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] How to evaluate programming skills, are there any international benchmarks? In-Reply-To: <40D1BCE6.108581CA@juno.com> References: <40D1BCE6.108581CA@juno.com> Message-ID: <40D2D0FF.8090804@abo.fi> >>... >>The reason I am telling you all this is to set some kind of background >>to what I want to ask you about. I am about to engage myself in research >>as a PhD-student, focusing on how programming and algorithmic thinking >>can be taught to high school students. I have been very fascinated by >>Python, and have decided to use that as the first thing to try out in >>order to get some results on how high school students should (or >>shouldn't :) be taught. >>... > > > Linda, as a PhD candidate you must have some theories on how high school > students should or shouldn't be taught. Would you care to share? > > What experiments do you plan to do to test you hypothesis? > > Thanks, > Jeff Sandys Hi Jeff, Nice to see you are interested in teaching programming to high school students programming. As I wrote in my first post (I think), I am in the very beginning of my research, and haven't made any final decisions yet. Currently, I am reading about what have already been done, and my plan is to choose the best parts from different approaches and combine them into one, single strategy for teaching. This is probably the way all researchers in this field start out :) At this point I am thinking of using Python, pair programming, "lectureless instruction" and work in labs. I will write a short tutorial in Swedish, using "How to think as a Computer Scientist" as a basis. I am not really sure on how detailed the tutorial will be, that depends on how much time I have :) I have also thought about introducing PyGame as "something fun to work with" outside class. Before I make any decisions regarding experiments etc. I want to read the book "Computer Science Education Research" by Fincher and Petre (http://www.szp.swets.nl/szp/books/19629.htm). I have ordered it, but it hasn't come yet; with my luck, I am sure it won't arrive until after the vacations sometimes in August. I would be glad to share and discuss ideas with others. Teaching programming is a challenge, but indeed an interesting and motivating one! /Linda *********************************************************************** Linda Grandell, M.Sc. Assistant, Department of Computer Science ?bo Akademi University http://www.abo.fi/~lgrandel "You are never given a dream without also being given the power to make it true." - R.Bach From jj2kk4 at yahoo.com Fri Jun 25 06:33:05 2004 From: jj2kk4 at yahoo.com (Joel Kahn) Date: Fri Jun 25 06:33:09 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Possible Book Message-ID: <20040625103305.56499.qmail@web51702.mail.yahoo.com> A publisher named No Starch Press . . . http://www.nostarch.com . . . has a call out for book proposals. No Starch generally focuses on computer stuff--much of their output is similar to O'Reilly, with whom they work in some ways--but No Starch is not afraid to push the boundaries of what constitutes a "technology book" once in a while. Two examples: _Internet For Cats_ and _The Spam Letters_. I'm thinking about hitting No Starch with a book idea aimed at spreading VPython to not-so-technical art educators and similar folk. The project might work better if I co-author the work with someone who can fill in some gaps and supply more angles. Before I say more about what I'm thinking of, I want input from edu-sig members. Joel __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From ajsiegel at optonline.net Fri Jun 25 08:44:08 2004 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Fri Jun 25 08:45:03 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] Possible Book In-Reply-To: <20040625103305.56499.qmail@web51702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0HZV00FGX7DN0T@mta5.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> Joel - I've been blabbing on edu-sig since early in its existence. And have blabbed enthusiastically here much about Vpython, since quite early in its existence. Its original name was to be Visual Python. And I think it does in fact succeed in extending Python quite seamlessly into the visual realm. Especially the Python those of us here see as having potent educational potential. And none of this is abstract to me. Though the beginning of PyGeo pre-dates Vpython (I started with pyopengl), the availability of Vpython allowed me to get places with it that I would not have otherwise gotten. And though PyGeo is geared toward math/geometry - as I have blabbed repeatedly - I don't see those subjects distanced from Art to any great extent. Close neighbors. There is nothing particularly profound about my perception - beyond the fact that it ignores prevailing cultural perceptions of the moment. I would be interested in your reaction and thoughts on how our interests might be brought closer together. Art > -----Original Message----- > From: edu-sig-bounces@python.org [mailto:edu-sig-bounces@python.org] On > Behalf Of Joel Kahn > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 6:33 AM > To: edu-sig@python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] Possible Book > > A publisher named No Starch Press . . . > > http://www.nostarch.com > > . . . has a call out for book proposals. No Starch > generally focuses on computer stuff--much of their > output is similar to O'Reilly, with whom they work in > some ways--but No Starch is not afraid to push the > boundaries of what constitutes a "technology book" > once in a while. Two examples: _Internet For Cats_ and > _The Spam Letters_. > > I'm thinking about hitting No Starch with a book idea > aimed at spreading VPython to not-so-technical art > educators and similar folk. The project might work > better if I co-author the work with someone who can > fill in some gaps and supply more angles. > > Before I say more about what I'm thinking of, I want > input from edu-sig members. > > Joel > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig From ajsiegel at optonline.net Wed Jun 30 09:43:52 2004 From: ajsiegel at optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Wed Jun 30 09:44:22 2004 Subject: [Edu-sig] FW: Joint statement about debian edu participation from the GUADEC 2004 Message-ID: <0I0400FNJJH727@mta7.srv.hcvlny.cv.net> -----Original Message----- From: Knut Yrvin [mailto:knuty@skolelinux.no] Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:25 AM To: debian-edu@lists.debian.org Subject: Joint statement about debian edu participation from the GUADEC 2004 -------- English ---------- Joint statement by debian edu and Skolelinux together with PSL-Brasil, gnu/LinEx and other participiant from the GNOME community In a meeting held tuesday 29 june 2004 we aggread to advance the international cooperation of Free and Open Source Software in education: through the sharing of architecture and applications. The intention is to eliminate the duplication of work and to facilitate communication of ideas between the participants. In this way we hope to improve the competence of our digital skills and to ensure universal access to technology for youth and adults. Open minds and Open Source means that we can learn from each other and to create for oneself. In order to make this happen each generation must posess the right to form, change and adapt the technology. This cooperation is of mutual benefit and will take place through traditional Free and Open Source development channels, for example the debian-edu@lists.debian.org mailinglist. - LinEx in Spain, Jose Angel Diaz Diaz Chief Manager of Digital Literacy Plan - PSL-Brasil in Brazil, Paulino Michelazzo - Skolelinux in Norway, Knut Yrvin Project manager