[Edu-sig] readable vs. writable <<>> shell vs. editor

[Jason Cunliffe]

[Follow-up on my recent harvest full-moon rants]

Tim Peters is right as usual.

My assumptions that most people very quickly feel comfortable with Rebol are
mistaken.
Some do, some don't.


The ones who stay with it [and whom I encounter] mostly tend to be the people
who took to it like ducks to water. The others indeed flounder, finding the
freeform dynamic qualities hard and confusing.
I've been asking why, and considering characteristics of Python and Rebol as I
switch between them..

Python is very architectural and its #1 characteristic is readability and
consistency.
As Guido and Tim quickly pointed out, Python leaves one in no doubt.
Reading other people's Python code is therefore especially valuable for
learning.
Python encourages one to think structurally, by its design and with the tools it
provides.
It is also very writable. The shell and immediate self awareness of new objects
in the dictionary.

One analogy is how well one quickly one can follow when entering a movie or
conversation somewhere in the middle. Python provides full-time subtitles, free
headset with UN translator and an index for the whole event.

...................
Rebol is conversational, narrative and poetic. It is very writeable [like
FORTH], because one can build up words and meaning rapidly inline as part of a
message stream. Rebol programmers perhaps depends more on the shell. I think in
Rebol people have more iterative writing workflow sessions, using frequent cut
and paste in both directions. Moving between shell and editor to refine elegant
short final versions.

Rebol is harder to read. It depends upon a core vocabulary, fluency of idiom,
building pattern recognition. And upon the skill with which the writer chose his
words.
It is poetic like good FORTH. Leo Brodie's classic book "Starting Forth"
described this art and process well.

Rebol is a little like a movie where one can get out of one's seat and climb
right into the film and join in the conversation. You may or may not be welcome
and understood by those there. Exciting, uncertain stuff.

"Purple Rose of Cairo", USA [] dir: Woody Allen
http://dvdmg.com/purpleroseofcairo.shtml

"Escape from Cinema Liberty", Poland [1991]
Exuberant attack on censorship parodies Polish politics and 'The Purple Rose of
Cairo' in
the same breath. 92 min.
http://www.hollywood.com/movies/detail/movie/179041
http://www.y.net.ye/polemb/kulturae.html


I'd be interested to hear how others move between shell and editor in Python..
What have you observed about beginners and developing habits?

./Jason