[Edu-sig] programming for artists

[Jason Cunliffe]

<Arthur_Siegel@rsmi.com> wrote:

> I would add significantly, if my understasnding is correct,`
> Industrial Light & Magic - sort the THE 3d animation
> studio.

Yes. Art Thanks for catching that one..

> A comprehensive list of  multi-media apps - including commerical ones -
> using Python in some manner could go on significantly.
>
> The point is that the market is speaking in a clear way by finding
> a significant niche for Python in this kind of work.

Gets the job done quickly, pragmatically, is readable by people working
under insane deadlines etc..The Film + TV bussiness udnerstand that most of
what they do need only last as long as the illusion needs to. Many artists
and technicians aworking in film are amazingly quick to adapt. Less
preoccupied in theory and rigour, they need to experiment, model extend and
combine. Python fits their heads I guess.

> Interestingly, it's all pretty far off to the side of the things happening
> closer
> to the inside of the Python community.
>
> I think it safe to guess that there are 100 posts to comp.lang.python
> related to to Web based technologies for every one related to
> multimedia.

I think one reason is that many people working in commerical media do not
tend to spend time online very much during projects unless they are in
research stage of jobs or simply really get stuck. Many Artists are often
quite private. When was the last time Larry Cuba posted to comp.lang.python?
Perhaps he had no need, perhaps not his style.. I know he is not interested
in Python for Python's sake, but as  a tool to realize his artistic ideas.
comp.lang.python is well populated by people for whom Python is a world unto
itself as are many [most] other newsgroups.

I have also found that most lists and newsgroups tend to be rather
design-blind [programmer-oriented] in a creative media sense. So those type
of discussions don't happen adn people neednig that dialogue go elsewhere,
often using private email between a small group. Thus many users fly under a
nd over the obvious 'radar'.

For example I worked a few years ago in the UK at a very busy CDRMOM
multimedia house. They had _no_ time to be online. The best they could do
was to go across the room and ask someone else. Once they a had a basic set
of working tools/techniques, they just kept on extending them as each
project demanded. At lunchtime they might discuss a 'better' way, but for
presetnation next morning at 9am they would use whatever worked, whihc was
also what they knew would work.

> All this is mostly random observation.
>
> Except that I am surprised the 'inside' Python community hasn't
> better embraced these developments.  A cgi related question on
> comp.lang.python will always seem appropriate - a Blender related
> one always off-key.

Right.
For example almost never do you see Blender, Lightflow, related questions.
But you know there are people out there learning and using these tools, The
handful of gurus act as magnets for newbies interested in  those \, so they
gather around  those sites and lisst, only rarely surfacing to ask some
{dict} or debug some module installation question. ALso Python is quite easy
and often people don't need to do very complicated things at all - hence no
posts.


OTOH Artists struggling with programming are overwhelmed or bored by
technical groups. They tend to gather in forums with others working from
similar artistic perspective. Also many use Macs in preference to Win32 or
*nuix because that is what their art schools got them started on.

How many times have you seen a post about Alice, or VPython or even the work
discussed here? How many times have you seen people from Disney or ILM
posting to the list? Pehasp they do under a different name. Often there are
strict NDA[non-disclosure agreements] in FX business. This is the same in
WallStreet to. Some people simply don't like to tip their hand, while others
are embarrassed about the quality of their code, even though it does 'work'
for them, they feel thre is nothing to publicize or that would be useful to
others, so they keep quiet. Just like many lists have many listening and
learning but not posting.

A friend presently works on the specialFX crew for the mega 'Lord of the
Rings' trilogy being made in New Zealand. He uses ML because he sys he
doesnt have so many 'surprises'. He writes most of his own code becuase he
knows what it does, and takes it with him. He started out as an architecture
student who fell in love with radiosity early on. That dragged him into Unix
programming and he never looked back.


> The little marketing man in my head says that Python should show off a
little
> better in this arena. The standard distribution does not give any real
hint
> that
> Python is a player in the world of multi-media. The facts are it very much
is.

And growing rapidly.. There is a book project I would like to work with
people here on:
Programming for Artists with Python.

PIL
LightFlow
PoserPro
Blender
etc..

A shame though there is not yet any  category and encouragement to highlight
creative work in this area on either python.org or The Vaults.

It would be great to see how art+media+architecture schools might benefit
from CP4E more oriented to their needs and sensibilities..


./Jason