[Edu-sig] Interactive Numeracy

[Kirby Urner]

Hi Dethe --

I've played with Vpython some and think it points in a very
promising direction.  A trap to avoid is any sense that it
has to be either/or.  

The Povray approach makes sense if you have partially 
overlapping study programs which delve into Povray more 
deeply for what it is:  a ray tracer with a large 
vocabulary, lots of features (especially impressive given 
how lenient are the usage rules).  For example, maybe 
an art class uses Povray (here's an example of one sculptor's 
output: http://reality.sculptors.com/~salsbury/House/ )

I also like the fact that Povray knows nothing about 
Python, and Python nothing about Povray (out of the box)
and yet they can easily be loosely coupled in this way, 
to have one output the source files for the other.  It
could go the other way too:  have the Python image 
processing library make modifications directly to the
graphical outputs in Povray.

Anyway, I think the number of permutations whereby module
A may be used in synergy with module B (and C, and D)
is overwhelming, and a great many of these permutations
will pay off.  All any one of us can do is pick a few 
that are promising and demonstrate the virtues.

So yes, by all means, if you're inspired to do so, please 
explore the Vpython approach and keep us apprised of 
your results (as you've just been doing).  There certainly 
may come a time when I do more with it myself.  Arthur's 
approach was also very significant (PyGeo).

In my own case, the live interactive geometry program 
I've done the most curriculum writing around is being
developed in Java, is open source and free, and is 
available in both applet and standalone forms at via
http://www.fluidiom.com/  There may be a JPython angle
to all this in future, I don't really know.  Povray, 
VRML and ActiveWorlds are already part of that scene.

Thanks again for the information.  I hadn't realized 
that Vpython had been upgraded and now coexists with the
rest of Python in a more mature fashion.  That's good 
news and I look forward to redownloading it at some 
future date.

Kirby

PS:  at http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/oop7.html I do more
to wire Python to a VRML back end, vs. just Povray.  I think 
that'd be the next logical step for my source code in the 
Numeracy essay -- to gain the VRML output option everywhere 
you currently have the Povray option.


At 09:28 AM 12/06/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>On Kirby's Numeracy pages
>(http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy1.html), he uses python to
>write out PovRay data and drive PovRay.  This is nice and gives an immediate
>result, which can be added to a web page.  I've been playing with VPython,
>though and it gives a more tactile result: you can immediately manipulate
>the resulting 3D object(s).  One thing which was holding me back from
>wholeheartedly recommending it was the requirement that you uninstall Python
>and install VPython.  Well, VPython has been updated to use Python 2.0 and
>now it plays nice with others.  You can get it at
>http://virtualphoton.pc.cc.cmu.edu/projects/visual/.