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M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
M````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
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*````````````````
`
end
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 16 16:17:14 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: [JPython] jpython/jython as a first programming language?
References:
Message-ID: <000a01c0677b$a8065700$89e16dd1@oemcomputer>
Eric -
Are you aware of the Python EDU-SIG list. Though not JPython specific, much
goes on there relevant to your inquiry.
ART
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Freudenthal
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 7:57 AM
Subject: [JPython] jpython/jython as a first programming language?
> I'm tempted to teach my teenage stepson python. Clearly to succeed, he
must
> begin having fun very quickly. Python seems to have the desirably short
> learning curve, however it would seem to be harder to come up with fun
> projects & deployment strategies to keep him interested than with, say,
> java. Enter jython/jpython, which would seem to reduce this problem (hey,
> it includes swing). Is it mature enough for this? Are there any books
yet?
>
> Suggestions are welcome,
>
> Thanks, eric
>
> ---
> Eric Freudenthal // Courant Institute // New York University
> office: 212-998-3345 // cell:917-279-6208
> 715 Broadway, Room 1011, New York, NY 10003
> cell pager: eric.pager@freudenthal.net (100 char limit)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> JPython-Interest maillist - JPython-Interest@python.org
> http://www.python.org/mailman/listinfo/jpython-interest
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 16 16:33:44 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:33:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Edu-sig] Virus alert.
Message-ID: <200012161633.LAA00155@maynard.mail.mindspring.net>
begin 644 Happy99.exe
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`
end
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 16 16:41:28 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:41:28 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Virus alert.
References: <200012161610.JAA17414@ace.DELOS.COM>
Message-ID: <001c01c0677f$233112a0$89e16dd1@oemcomputer>
> Sending out viruses, perchance?
Certainly not with any intention.
But apparently yes.
Simply forwarded Eric's message from JPython list.
Apologize. Any clues to what happened are appreciated.
Re-iterates again a sense of jinx in my efforts toward EDU-SIG
involvement.
ART
From support@messagelabs.com Sat Dec 16 16:36:10 2000
From: support@messagelabs.com (support@messagelabs.com)
Date: 16 Dec 2000 16:36:10 -0000
Subject: [Edu-sig] WARNING. You sent a potential virus or unauthorised code
Message-ID: <20001216163610.2959.qmail@mail-server-8.star.net.uk>
The Star Scanning System discovered a potential virus
or unauthorised code in a message sent by you.
The message was diverted into the virus holding pen on
mail server mail-server-8.star.net.uk (id 667838_976984570)
and will be held for 10 days before being destroyed.
------------------------------------------------
To help identify the message:
The message was titled 'Edu-sig digest, Vol 1 #188 - 4 msgs'
The message date was Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:36:04 -0500 (EST)
The message identifier was <20001216163604.844C4E74E@mail.python.org>
The message was detected on server mail-server-8.star.net.uk
The message recipients were
azar.rauf@sstuk.com
------------------------------------------------
What was it:
Scanner 1 (NAI Virus Scan) reported the following:
/var/qmail/queue/split/0/667838_2U_Happy99.exe
Found the W32/Ska@M virus !!!
/var/qmail/queue/split/0/667838_3U_Happy99.exe
Found the W32/Ska@M virus !!!
------------------------------------------------
Did the mail reach any recipients?
If you are a customer of Star Internet, then the
mail has been intercepted, and will not reach any
recipients. Depending on your configuration, the
intended recipients may or may not have received a
warning message similar to this.
If you are not a customer of Star Internet, then
only the mail sent to customers of Star Internet
has been intercepted. Mail to other recipients
will not have been stopped. All recipients will
have received a warning message similar to this.
------------------------------------------------
What now?
To find information on the scanner that detected the virus
use the following links:
NAI uvscan: http://www.nai.com
Cybersoft vfind: http://www.cyber.com
F-Secure: http://www.f-secure.com
You may be able to find more information on the virus detected
from the following information sites:
http://www.f-secure.com/virus-info/
http://vil.nai.com/
If your virus scanner does not detect a virus, do not attempt
to send the mail again - our virus scanners will still detect
a virus. You should contact our support department to
resolve the problem, quoting virus pen number 667838_976984570,
mail server mail-server-8.star.net.uk.
If you need more information, or if you believe this to be a
false alarm, please contact your local helpdesk / administrator,
or contact Star Support on:
+44 (0)1285 884433
or support@star.net.uk.
_______________________________________________________________
This message has been checked for all known viruses by the
MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. For further information visit
http://www.messagelabs.com/stats.asp
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 16 17:14:41 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 12:14:41 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Apologies
Message-ID: <001301c06783$b1075b80$fde06dd1@oemcomputer>
I apologize for sending you a worm virus called "happy99.exe" It was
inadvertently attached to a recent e-mail *i* sent you . DO NOT CLICK ON
THIS ATTACHMENT FILE , and do not save it on your hard-disk but immediately
DELETE the attachment.
If you did start the program, you certainly noted the nice fireworks it
presented to you, and this means that you are INFECTED too.
Happily this worm does almost no harm to your computer, but it spreads
itself easily by e-mails you send to other people.
To get rid of it you have to execute several easy steps.
You may find them on the Internet at http://www.cetest.nl/happy99.htm
Please accept my apologies.
Regards,
ART
From pdx4d@teleport.com Sat Dec 16 18:03:10 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 10:03:10 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Virus alert.
In-Reply-To: <001c01c0677f$233112a0$89e16dd1@oemcomputer>
References: <200012161610.JAA17414@ace.DELOS.COM>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001216100310.008333a0@pop.teleport.com>
Art --
It's ye old Happy99.exe. I've seen it -- and inadvertently
spread it -- in times gone by. I'm sharing this with the
list in case anyone booted the Happy99.exe attachment and
watched the little fireworks display. If you did, you've
been infected.
Happy99 emails itself in the background, as a separate
send (not as an attachment to your original) -- so it'll
show up a little later from X, after X has sent you
something. X often doesn't have a clue this is going
on, until X starts getting replies saying "what's with
that file?" or whatever. Happy99.exe's job is to forward
itself to others -- it even keeps a log of whom it has
mailed itself to.
Happy99.exe does no serious damage to your files or
boot sector. However, it does conceal itself rather
cleverly -- just finding Happy99.exe and deleting it
from your drive will *NOT* disinfect your computer, IF,
that is, you've actually booted/run Happy99.exe --
delete it NOW if you haven't run it (delete it anyway,
but you'll need to do more). If you HAVE run it, go
here for steps to clear it off:
http://www.pchell.com/internet/happy99.shtml
Kirby
At 11:41 AM 12/16/2000 -0500, Arthur Siegel wrote:
>> Sending out viruses, perchance?
>
>Certainly not with any intention.
>
>But apparently yes.
>
>Simply forwarded Eric's message from JPython list.
>
>Apologize. Any clues to what happened are appreciated.
>
>Re-iterates again a sense of jinx in my efforts toward EDU-SIG
>involvement.
>
>ART
From pdx4d@teleport.com Sat Dec 16 19:53:29 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 11:53:29 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Edu-sig snippets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20001214210342.009c35c0@pop.teleport.com>
References:
<3.0.3.32.20001214105126.00a14100@pop.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001216115329.00a2f6f0@pop.teleport.com>
Spending some time searching the web for pre-existing
educational Python. Of course there's plenty to find,
including another version of RSA I'm studying:
http://tor.dhs.org/~zephyrfalcon/snippets/source/246.py
This version uses the "random bases" method (1
References:
<3.0.3.32.20001214105126.00a14100@pop.teleport.com>
<3.0.3.32.20001216115329.00a2f6f0@pop.teleport.com>
Message-ID:
On page 39 of the 1st edition of "Discovering Geometry", Chapter 1
begins with the following quote:
"We have to reinvent the wheel every once in a while,
not because we need a lot of wheels; but because
we need a lot of inventors." - Bruce Joyce
I've always loved that quote (and the book in which I found it,
for that matter ;-) so I greatly appreciated these comments
by Kirby.
jeff
On 16 Dec 2000 11:53:29 -0800, Kirby Urner wrote:
> Given how much Python is out there, by talented authors
> in many walks of life, we should:
>
> (a) make use of their contributions with attribution and
>
> (b) not discourage students from reinventing these
> wheels over and over, since it's the process of coming
> up with these yourself, even while looking over at
> the work of others, which constitutes the core
> educational process.
>
> Kirby
From urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU Mon Dec 18 09:08:01 2000
From: urner@alumni.Princeton.EDU (Kirby Urner)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 01:08:01 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Reinventing the wheel...
Message-ID:
I've upgraded http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/clubhouse.html=20
to include some RSA stuff. I think that page is finally=20
close to done and I plan to give it a rest.[1]
In exploring the web for relevant input, it became clear=20
to me that I'm venturing in territory typically covered=20
in college computer science courses. =20
That doesn't need to change, but I remain persuaded that=20
by adopting a "computer at your elbow" approach to math=20
teaching, we could have a lot more segues between K-12=20
and what's now considered college-level material.
Awhile back, Tim Peters recommended 'Concrete Mathematics'=20
(Knuth a co-author) as a good example of a "math through
programming" text book. I subsequently bought it, and=20
had to agree. So how do we "lower a ladder" to middle=20
and high schoolers starting from there? I think Python
is part of the answer.
In sum, none of the content I'm covering in my curriculum
writing is really new. All that I'm doing is wiring up=20
the topics in a somewhat different way, changing the mix,
reorganizing the hyperlinks. This is a fairly conservative
approach, in other words.[2] =20
However, I think the result could be a much higher level=20
of math appreciation for younger students (or for adults=20
returning for more), plus better segues into computer=20
science, for those wishing to go that route.
>"We have to reinvent the wheel every once in a while,
>not because we need a lot of wheels; but because
>we need a lot of inventors." - Bruce Joyce
>
>I've always loved that quote (and the book in which I found it,
>for that matter ;-) so I greatly appreciated these comments
>by Kirby.
>
>jeff
That's a great quote jeff, hadn't seen it before. Thanks
for posting it.
Kirby
Notes:
[1]
The Miller-Rabin stuff was confusing because I think some=20
web authors don't communicate it properly. Fortunately,=20
Knuth includes it in 'The Art of Programming' vol 2 (took
me awhile to realize that) and his Algorithm P on pg. 395
seems pretty clear -- helped me streamline the gist of the
test:
Given candidate prime n, random base b < n, and m,s such=20
that m*(2**s) =3D n-1:
def algP(m,s,b,n):
"""
based on Algorithm P in Donald Knuth's 'Art of
Computer Programming' v.2 pg. 395=20
"""
result =3D 0
y =3D pow(b,m,n)
for j in range(s):
if (y=3D=3D1 and j=3D=3D0) or (y=3D=3Dn-1):
result =3D 1
break
y =3D pow(y,2,n)
return result
If this spits back a 1, your candidate n passes the test=20
for base b. The idea is to test a number of random bases=20
(except I go with low primes in sequence, as per Paul=20
Emerson's thesis, an OK alternative, yes?) -- the more=20
bases you test, the higher chance a number still passing=20
is prime; with the chance of being wrong equal to=20
(1./4)**(number of tests) -- gets small quickly.
Anyway, the above source is quite a bit more succinct=20
than before.
[2] =20
Probably the one thing I include that's controversial is=20
mention of Bucky Fuller's concentric hierarchy of polyhedra
-- a way of scaling/organizing common polys which brings=20
out some whole-number relationships and morph-relationships
which geometers haven't traditionally focussed on (even=20
though they've always been there). I think Fuller's=20
approach is a pedagogic advance and makes polys more=20
friendly to younger people (a thesis I've empirically=20
tested in the field, with good results). Plus it phases
in sphere packing in tandem with the polys, and that's
highly useful as well. (Note: Alexander Graham Bell was
also obsessed with the tetrahedron, not just Bucky).
With more polyhedra earlier in the curriculum, we have=20
more opportunities to use them later (say in high school)
as objects subjected to transformations (scaling, translation,
rotation), using object-oriented programming techniques.=20
Lots of intro-to-OOP books use polygons as example objects,
(e.g. triangle as a subclass of polygon), but I'd go with=20
full-fledged polyhedra instead (e.g. tetrahedron as a=20
subclass of polyhedron). With polyhedra, your Python can=20
be about manipulating 3-tuple vectors (x,y,z), not just=20
planar (x,y) vectors, and the graphics/animations will=20
be far more interesting. Plus you might want to explore=20
with quadrays -- another wrinkle/feature in my curriculum=20
writing: see http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/quadrays.html=20
for more info.
From klm@digicool.com Mon Dec 18 19:32:12 2000
From: klm@digicool.com (Ken Manheimer)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 14:32:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: Reinventing the wheel...
In-Reply-To: <20001218170110.0136CE94F@mail.python.org>
Message-ID:
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 Kirby Urner wrote:
> had to agree. So how do we "lower a ladder" to middle
> and high schoolers starting from there? I think Python
> is part of the answer.
>
> In sum, none of the content I'm covering in my curriculum
> writing is really new. All that I'm doing is wiring up=20
> the topics in a somewhat different way, changing the mix,
> reorganizing the hyperlinks. This is a fairly conservative
> approach, in other words.[2] =20
>
> However, I think the result could be a much higher level=20
> of math appreciation for younger students (or for adults=20
> returning for more), plus better segues into computer=20
> science, for those wishing to go that route.
I have to come out of lurk-mode for a moment to say how glad i am to see
what kirby (and others) is doing - from my casual tracking of it, it
sounds like something i *very much* would have liked to have around when i
was first learning this kind of math. It sounds like something i'd enjoy
now, for that matter!
Thanks, kirby,
Ken Manheimer
klm@digicool.com
From pdx4d@teleport.com Mon Dec 18 18:41:10 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:41:10 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Reinventing the wheel...
In-Reply-To:
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001218104110.0085f830@pop.teleport.com>
At 01:08 AM 12/18/2000 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I've upgraded http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/clubhouse.html
>to include some RSA stuff. I think that page is finally
>close to done and I plan to give it a rest.[1]
Duh: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/clubhouse.html
^^^
Good summary post though -- I think I'll copy it to
k12.ed.math and maybe math-teach w/ the above typo fixed.
Kirby
From Arthur_Siegel@rsmi.com Wed Dec 20 23:13:06 2000
From: Arthur_Siegel@rsmi.com (Arthur_Siegel@rsmi.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:13:06 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] PyOpenGL is back
Message-ID: <00300804.N22121@rsmi.com>
The good news:
What I believe is a potent CP4E combo - Python\Numeric\PyOpenGL - is back to a
state of easy
accessibility on Windows.
PyOpenGL, on sourceforge, has a 1.56b1 release with self-executing install
which works nicely with Python20 (BeOpen) - though
had trouble against the ActiveState distro.
Numeric, also on sourceforge, has a compiled Windows version. Unzip to
Python20 directory and you're home.
The bad news:
Given the above I went back to PyGeo and had a play. I'm still a fan (of my
own efforts).
Once I make a few Python20 compatibility changes (used 'append' with 2 args
here and there), I'm going to
lobby for some attention for it again. What's to lose.
ART
From humbert@hagen.de Thu Dec 21 00:00:18 2000
From: humbert@hagen.de (L. Humbert)
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 01:00:18 +0100
Subject: [Edu-sig] Some simple extension for little automata theory at secondary II level
Message-ID: <3A414811.5CE62197@hagen.de>
Hi,
I found your article
http://gnosis.cx/publish/programming/charming_python_4.txt
at the moment I'm doing some little theory on automata at my school and
so I took your source-code,
added a little swing-coded gui and it works fine
which jpython and jython, so that my students can go on with some
interest, because it has a nice interface (;-
tnx
for giving the idea to realize this automata
Ludger
PS: you can find the source-code and a few little pictures at
http://bscw.hagen.de/pub/german.cgi/d572828/
as
AUTOMAT.tar.gz
From pdx4d@teleport.com Thu Dec 21 07:25:45 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:25:45 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] PyOpenGL is back
In-Reply-To: <00300804.N22121@rsmi.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001220232545.00a2fca0@pop.teleport.com>
>Once I make a few Python20 compatibility changes (used 'append' with 2 args
>here and there), I'm going to
>lobby for some attention for it again. What's to lose.
>
>ART
Glad you're back to PyGeo, next generation. Good news
all 'round.
Kirby
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 23 21:15:33 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:15:33 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] My new CP4E Mega Theory
Message-ID: <001301c06d25$7e582fa0$63e16dd1@oemcomputer>
Group -
Devoting time to some redesign of PyGeo - trying to emphasis
the concept of the sourcecode as an integral part of the application -
using the app and attempting to gain an understanding how it is doing what
it is doing are intended to be two sides of one coin.
Where this is leading me:
1) Simplification - less attempts at bells and whistles. Killed much of the
GUI stuff, e.g
2) Source code annotation - the source is the text. Doing it is hard and
boring at the same time. I'll see how long my enthusiasm lasts and how far I
get.
But most interestingly (here's the Mega Theory part) -
3) Using OOP to layer complexity. The top-level classes accessed directly by
scripts are simplest, which inherit from classes which reveal more of the
basic analytics, which inherit from classes which wrap Numeric in friendlier
terms and handle more of the advanced analytics and matrix algebra, which
inherit from Numeric, which extends C, where I get lost. Younger or less
motivated observers will stop at top-level classes and hopefully learn a
good deal about programming and geometry. Other folks might trace the path
beyond where I choose to stop.
But the basic concept of using inheritance in this way has general
significance in a CP4E sense, I believe.
And in the CP4E sense, is a better alternative - I believe - to relegating
Python to the role of simple scripting of compiled code (e.g, C or C++),
which (even if opensource) is beyond the reach of most of us anxious to take
a peek behind the Wizard's curtain - the languages being different and the
shift in levels of complexity (not necessarily because of the languages
themselves, but more because of a shift in focus by the creator) too abrupt.
ART
From jasonic@nomadicsltd.com Sun Dec 24 00:44:02 2000
From: jasonic@nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 19:44:02 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Season of Lights!
Message-ID: <008c01c06d42$9cafa600$c3090740@megapathdsl.net>
Hello
Solstice/Seasons greeting to you all..
Since it is the time of lights, and wishing you all godspeed along the paths
towards beautiful ways to explore CP4E or CP4F [Computer programming for
FUN], there is a magical Python library for sculpting with light :
LightFlow
http://www.lightflowtech.com/
The Lightflow Rendering Interface is an object oriented programming
interface to synthetic rendering, which provides a common environment and
description language to treat light distribution in three dimensional
spaces.
A major advantage of the system is that it has been made looking for
complete extensibility since its creation, providing the user with simple
and flexible extension mechanisms, which allow, among the others, procedural
definition of: surface and volumetric patterns and materials, new parametric
surface types, general lighting systems, camera lenses and output
redirection.
The interface is made up by a set of language independent classes and
procedures that allow to define three dimensional scenes, so that an actual
interface implementation may be easily used both as an output device by
external programs and as a separate rendering tool by single individuals.
Currently, two versions of the Lightflow Rendering Interface are freely
available for non commercial uses: the Client Side C++ API, and a limited
Python wrapping that allows easy scene construction via scripting
Lightflow Rendering Tools: Client Side API - Python Module
http://www.lightflowtech.com/download.html
Some breathtaking sample Lightflow images at:
http://www.hypercomplex.org/quats2.htm
http://www.lightflowtech.com./photo_img.html
http://www.lightflowtech.com./products.html
http://www.lightflowtech.com./images/anisotropic6_b.jpg
http://www.lightflowtech.com./images/bspline5_b.jpg
http://www.lightflowtech.com./images/bspline4_b.jpg
http://www.lightflowtech.com./images/cornell5_b.jpg
And last but not __least__:
Inspiring testimonial to the evidenct value of learning progamming young
by Lightflow's brilliant author, Jacopo Pantaleoni....
http://www.lightflowtech.com/info.html
I am Jacopo Pantaleoni, my age is 21, and I live in Italy, where I study
Mathematics at the University of Padova.
I am interested in the field of Computer Graphics since I was 13, and I have
become an active developer about three years later, when my brother, expert
of computer languages (see www.elasticworld.org), taught me how to program.
I have always been fascinated by the world of science and mathematics, but
my mind focused on the latter only two years ago, when I choosed to
investigate this incredible field to join the needs of my already formed
interest in synthetic rendering.
My intention was to acquire a deeper knowledge of the concepts that I
already used in my very first rendering and modeling applications with the
constant help of my brother. Now that these concepts are clear enough, I am
starting to appreciate mathematics as a "stand-alone program", which is
becoming my main source of pleasure after Lightflow.
My preferred research fields are:
Computational Geometry, including :
Multi Dimensional Search Structures
Spatial Caching Schemes
Algebraic Variaties
Voronoi Diagrams
Real Analysis, including :
Function Approximation
Wavelets
Differential Equations
Topology
However, as I said previously, my main interests are growing around
Lightflow, which took me five years of intense development. This software is
born to satisfy my personal needs, providing all those functionalities that
the other commercial and free programs did not ever grouped into one
coherent solution.
With the time passing, I have started to treat Lightflow as a pure
development platform, a testbed for those futuristic features that once were
exclusive domain of the supercomputing world, such as global illumination,
volumetric rendering and hypertextures.
Recently this project has become a solid reality, next to the pubblication
of an article of mine on Computer Gazette, the most popular computer
graphics magazine in Italy, and next to the interest of Darkside, an
authorized Alias|Wavefront training center...
And now, The Show Must Go On...
Best wishes + enjoy!
- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 24 04:03:56 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 23:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Seasons of Light
Message-ID: <000701c06d5e$8b0fdd40$abe06dd1@oemcomputer>
Yow!!!
Where was that hiding. Images are stunning.
PovRay, or better, scripted directly from Python.
Kirby should have fun with it.
As will I.
Thought I had a handle on what was out there for Python and 3D.
A nice seasons of light surprise indeed.
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 24 15:51:50 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:51:50 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] Lightflow
Message-ID: <000501c06dc1$78ab93c0$efe06dd1@oemcomputer>
Jason -
Just to let you know the Lightflow cite was a beauty for me.
As referenced by me on edu-sig in the past:
Povray was something I fell in love with early on, and more than any
other single app was what inspired me to pursue a look behind the Wizard's
curtain.
I have always hoped to add the feature of high quality output to PyGeo.
Imagining in my Quixotic way (I have recently grown a goatee which might
someday be worthy of Don himself) PyGeo in the hands of students, I had
always wanted to give them a good quality hard copy of a construction they
may have created (once they have manipulated it interactively into a pose
that might prefer).
The output to Povray scripts ala Kirby was always a possibility, but
more than I was willing to pursue. The programming seemed to need to be
string processing intensive - something I simply do not enjoy.
And I'm in this for the fun - CP4F.
Lightflow opens up new, more straightforward possibilities. I'll let
you know if I get anywhere interesting with it.
ART
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 25 17:32:38 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 12:32:38 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Lightflow again
Message-ID: <001301c06e98$be5ca1c0$93e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Sorry for the multi-posts - and the change of subjects a bit from CP4E to
general Python advocacy.
But finding Lightflow quite exciting. Seems to be very much the up and
coming raytracer/radiosity engine.
3dWin (and its crossplatform engine - 3dto3d) - which is a 3d file format
converter which has been on the scene for many years - now includes the
ability to import files from standard 3d modeler formats
(3dStudio, Lightwave, AutoDesk) and output Python files which can be
rendered by Lightflow.
Just thought it interesting to see Lightflow as the impetus for work on the
automated generation of Python code.
Do any other such examples exist?
From jasonic@nomadicsltd.com Tue Dec 26 15:30:41 2000
From: jasonic@nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:30:41 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Lightflow = Fw: Announce: 3DWin 4.5a, a 3D file format converter with OpenGL Support
Message-ID: <001001c06f50$cf0741c0$c3090740@megapathdsl.net>
Note: export to Lightflow (*.py) funcion
- Jason
----------------------------------------------
From:
> Hi,
>
> TB Software presents the new version of 3DWin, the 3D file format
converter.
> Beside several mesh processing features it offers full uv and material
support for various 3d file formats.
> 3DWinOGL is a new member of the 3DWin product line. It bases on the 3DWin
engine and adds visual support
> during the conversion process with help of OpenGL.
>
> 3DWin's strength is the high stability of processing different file
formats.
> "Quality not Quantity" is the motto of the software development when
commenting number of supported file formats.
>
> 3DWin is available at
> http://www.stmuc.com/thbaier
>
> This update is free for registered users.
>
>
> What's new:
>
> * new 3DWinOGL beta (registered users only)
> * support for PovRay 3.5
> * LW support for detail polygons
>
> Fixes:
>
> * Direct X out fix
>
> The Basics:
>
> * running under Win95/98/NT4/W2K
> * easy installation
> * plugin architecture
> * updates via support web page.
> * clear and comfortable userinterface
> * full help support
> * fast and robust conversion routines
> * reliable handling of larges scenes
> * detailed statistics about conversion process
> * supports polygon meshes including normals and uv vectors
> * supports light and camera conversion
> * supports material and image map conversion (registered version only)
> * batch processing (registered version only)
> * Quadview OpenGL support
>
> Import:
>
> Generic ASCII format (*.raw)
> 3dStudio (*.3ds, *.prj)
> Lightwave (*.lwo, *.lws)
> Autodesk (*.dxf)
> WaveFront (*.obj)
> Protein Data Bank (*.pdb)
> Direct X (*.x)
> LightWave (*.lwo, *.lws)
> Quake MDL (*.mdl, *.md2)
>
> Export:
> Generic ASCII format (*.raw)
> 3dStudio (*.3ds, *.asc)
> Autodesk (*.dxf)
> VRML 1.0/2.0 (*.wrl)
> POV-Ray and Moray (*.inc, *.udo)
> WaveFront (*.obj)
> OpenGL (*.C)
> Renderman/BMRT (*.rib)
> Lightflow (*.py)
> Direct X (*.x)
> LightWave (*.lwo, *.lws)
> Quake MDL (*.mdl, *.md2)
>
> © by TB Software 2000
>
From jasonic@nomadicsltd.com Tue Dec 26 15:40:38 2000
From: jasonic@nomadicsltd.com (Jason Cunliffe)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 10:40:38 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Lightflow again
References: <001301c06e98$be5ca1c0$93e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <001101c06f52$32c2c300$c3090740@megapathdsl.net>
Art
Delighted to hear you are excited as I am about Lightflow... this python api
has really got me dreaming!
I have been digging around for more tools & examples beyond the intro python
code in the Lightflow docs..
Here's what I found so far this morning - hope some of this may be helpful
to you:
hamaPatch
http://www.crosswinds.net/~hamapatch/
hamaPatch is a free spline-based 3d modelling program for Windows 95,
featuring shaded previews, export to many popular 3d fomats, and the ability
to perform test renders in POV-Ray or BMRT. It includes many options and
tools for creating, editing, and previewing 3d models. hamaPatch is still
under development by its creator, Hamakazu, so its functionality will
continue to expand.
[note: hamaPatch includes a 'render to POVray/lightflow' button.]
Version 2.09 hamapatch.zip (303 kb) updated 09/23/00
3DWin is available at
> http://www.stmuc.com/thbaier
*new* version integrates openGL and exports to Lightflow as .py files among
many others
Blender to POV-Ray, Lightflow etc.
http://www.q-bus.de/Blender/test001.html
Last updated (13-Dec-1999)
As a first test I want to extract the information about some (or all)
primitives Blender supports and to write it to renderer specific files which
allow several renderers to produce a picture similar to the picture Blender
can render with it´s own renderer.
The basic idea is to use Blenders scripting facilities to collect
information about the scene. There are two ways to bind Python scripts to
Blender (This is described in more detail on the Blender Python Scripting
Page):
You can bind a script to an individual object and execute this program every
time the user changes frames, and during rendering and animation playback.
You can execute a script by opening the script window (SHIFT-F11), loading
the appropriate python script (OPEN NEW) and executing it with ALT-P.
Do please keep me posted of any work you do with Lightflow.
I have had some trivial install snags - so I have not yet beean able to get
Lightflow runnig correctly on my laptop system [Sony VIAO Win98se].
-( Pretty sure it's Something to do with PATHs not beingg set correctly.
arg!@#.. hopefully this will be solved before dusk
best wishes
- Jason
___________________________________________________________
Jason CUNLIFFE = NOMADICS['Interactive Art and Technology']
----- Original Message -----
From: Arthur Siegel
To: Jason Cunliffe ;
Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 12:32 PM
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Lightflow again
> Sorry for the multi-posts - and the change of subjects a bit from CP4E to
> general Python advocacy.
>
> But finding Lightflow quite exciting. Seems to be very much the up and
> coming raytracer/radiosity engine.
>
> 3dWin (and its crossplatform engine - 3dto3d) - which is a 3d file format
> converter which has been on the scene for many years - now includes the
> ability to import files from standard 3d modeler formats
> (3dStudio, Lightwave, AutoDesk) and output Python files which can be
> rendered by Lightflow.
>
> Just thought it interesting to see Lightflow as the impetus for work on
the
> automated generation of Python code.
>
> Do any other such examples exist?
From fig@monitor.net Tue Dec 26 17:22:37 2000
From: fig@monitor.net (Stephen R. Figgins)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:22:37 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Lightflow again
References: <001301c06e98$be5ca1c0$93e06dd1@oemcomputer> <001101c06f52$32c2c300$c3090740@megapathdsl.net>
Message-ID: <3A48D3DD.F0E9766B@monitor.net>
It looks like Lightflow only works with 1.5.2, is that correct?
Stephen
From delza@antarcti.ca Tue Dec 26 17:57:12 2000
From: delza@antarcti.ca (Dethe Elza)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 09:57:12 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: PyGeo (was: My new CP4E Mega Theory)
References: <001301c06d25$7e582fa0$63e16dd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <003901c06f65$49635300$29777318@poco1.bc.wave.home.com>
Art,
Happy Boxing Day!
Where can I find/find more about PyGeo? I've been looking at the VPython
work, but I'd prefer a straight Python/PyOpenGL/Numeric tool. I've tried
the links I could find from python.org and google, but all lead to starship,
which seems to be perpetually down.
Failing a link, could you please explain more about what PyGeo *is*?
TIA
Dethe
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 27 01:28:29 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:28:29 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: PyGeo
Message-ID: <000b01c06fa4$5364ab80$89e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Dethe,
Thanks for the interest.
PyGeo is a basic dynamic spacial (3d) geometry app. One defines geometric
relationships by Python script and then can manipulate the resulting
construction interactively, observing the change on the construction as a
whole from a change in position of some point defining the construction.
The rendering is all with PyOpenGL, the matrix math with Numeric, the rest
just Python. I did do a Java3d vecmath clone "wrapper" around Numeric (in
Python) to allow one to access Numeric using method calls more standard to a
3d graphics matrix library.
Performance, on complex constructions, sucks. Whether that's my coding (my
Numeric "wrapper" is suspect from a performance point of view), Tkinter, or
whatever. But it is quite spunky on simpler constructions.
And performance, for its purpose, (the codes the text), is mostly besides
the point.
Now with compiled PyOpenGL and Numeric again available I will put it up
again where interested folks might take a look.
I hate doing HTML - so I won't hold it up to do a "page". I'll simply put
it up where it can be fetched. Tonight, tomorrow. I'll note it here with a
cite when its available.
ART
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 27 01:38:57 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:38:57 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Seasons of Light
Message-ID: <001301c06fa5$c8c64d60$89e06dd1@oemcomputer>
>>It looks like Lightflow only works with 1.5.2, is that correct?
Yes. It's an extension compiled against 1.5.
I had to reinstall 1.5.2 to use it. My 2.0 and 1.5.2 installs on Windows2000
seem to be at peace with each other - so I'm at peace with having had to
reinstall. Less at peace with having to undo my Python2.0 changes to PyGeo
(import OpenGL as GL; self.array -= p1.array,etc) to see what I might be
able to do with it and Lightflow.
Assumedly a 2.0 compatible Lightflow will come along before long.
From delza@alliances.org Wed Dec 27 16:14:41 2000
From: delza@alliances.org (Dethe Elza)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 08:14:41 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] re: PyGeo
References: <000b01c06fa4$5364ab80$89e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3A4A1571.21E4D2EB@alliances.org>
Art,
Thanks for your reply, I'm looking forward to seeing it. I've been talking
with the VPython folks too--apparently it was originally a "pure" python
(plus PyOpenGL, plus Numeric) implementation as well, but was too slow. Now
it is a mass of C.
I'm curious what in Python is making 3D work so slow even when using
compiled libraries for what should (in my limited understanding) be the
difficult and time-consuming parts. Are there things that should be added
to Numeric &/or PyOpenGL which would make high-level tools like PyGeo and
VPython doable in "pure" python on top of those libraries?
Because I think 3D is very valuable as a teaching tool, whether you call
it CPFE or PFI (Programming (for the) Fun (of) It), but unless the 3D can
happen in Python (with decent performance) we lose the benefits of using
Python as the teaching language (or at least some of the benefits).
--Dethe
==========================================================================
| Dethe Elza | delza@alliances.org | http://i.am/dethe | 604-207-4266 |
==========================================================================
"Well I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five years now, doctor, and I'm
happy to state I've finally won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd, Harvey
From pdx4d@teleport.com Thu Dec 28 02:35:05 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:35:05 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: value of 3D, benefits of Python
In-Reply-To: <3A4A1571.21E4D2EB@alliances.org>
References: <000b01c06fa4$5364ab80$89e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001227183505.0091e590@pop.teleport.com>
>Because I think 3D is very valuable as a teaching tool,
>whether you call it CPFE or PFI (Programming (for the)
>Fun (of) It), but unless the 3D can happen in Python
>(with decent performance) we lose the benefits of using
>Python as the teaching language (or at least some of the
>benefits).
>
>--Dethe
Maybe some other term than '3D' would more precisely
identify the functionality you seek. You seem to be
talking about real time, interactive, videogame type
experiences -- something consumer-level software/hardware
has only gotten good at recently (since the good ol'
days of Pong and pre-GUI OSes).
When it comes to learning the nuts and bolts of 3D,
it's important to distill generic concepts from the
vast smorgasbord of implementations. And even at the
generic level, you've got the math frameworks, such
as xyz, homogenous coordinates, transformation matrics
and quaternions, and then the more computer-oriented
frameworks, such as viewing frustrum, clipping
rectangles, textures, and the different APIs (e.g.
OpenGL, DirectX, Java3D etc.).
In my Python + Povray approach, it's mostly the math
frameworks I'm trying to tune in at the conscious level
-- mostly by implementing Vector as a Python class.
Python is good for playing with Vectors because of the
operator overloading feature: you can write __add__
and __mul__ methods and have these pertain to vectors,
e.g. (a,b,c) + (d,e,f) = (a+d,b+e,c+f). Or:
>>> from coords import Vector
>>> a = Vector((1,2,3))
>>> b = Vector((4,5,6))
>>> a+b
Vector (5.0, 7.0, 9.0)
When you want to rotate a vector around an axis, that's
a method too:
>>> a = Vector((1,0,0)) # pointing along x-axis
>>> a.roty(180) # rotate 180 deg around y-axis
Vector (-1.0, 0.0, 0.0)
So the point of "pure Python" in my own curriculum writing
is to help reinforce vector concepts -- what we normally
teach under the heading of "linear algebra"; the roty
method is where the rotation matrix lives and needs to
_not_ be buried in some library (in this instance, given
the goals for the lesson plan). Comprehension, not speed, is
what's critical. Yet I'd call all of this '3D' certainly.[1]
Pedagogy, not system performance, is what's behind this
strategy. Like, even Povray by itself will scale and
rotate an object, once you've defined it and named it.
So if I'd just wanted to show an icosahedron, and then
another one rotated 30 degrees with respect to the first,
there's really no reason I'd have to use Python matrices
to do that -- just name the first icosa 'MyIcosa' and
tell Povray to rotate it and draw it again -- one line
in the .pov script. But I don't do that, because that
would hide precisely the implementation details I'm trying
to bring to the foreground and "render" (make explicit)
in Python.
So the decision to bring a rotation matrix into "pure Python"
wasn't at all for speed reasons (in my case) -- unless we're
talking about "vs pencil and paper". In that limited sense,
of the tedium out of manual calcs, I _do_ think automating
with a computer language, even while learning it on paper,
_is_ partly about getting some decent performance gains, so
that applying a rotation to each of 12 vertices does _not_
take a half hour, but under a second.
_That_ kind of speed (over pencil and paper manipulation)
is what opens up interesting applications, such as rendering
rotated polyhedra. A lot of these manipulations just seem
"too expensive" if done over and over by hand -- whereas
computers let us do them "in bulk" or "in volume" i.e. very
_cheaply_.[2]
Whereas I think Python is a fine little language (like APL
in some ways, my first love, but without the funny squiggles),
and a good first one, plus may be used in synergy with the
various frameworks to elucidate their innards (the tack
I took vis-a-vis the Blowfish crypto algorithm -- you'd
really want to do that in faster code, or even in hardware,
if speed were the core concern), I don't think we should
feed the fantasy that "I can get by with Python for
everything I'd ever want to do with computers." It's not
the "be all end all language" -- no language is. In my
paradigm, there's no such thing as "the" computer language,
and anyone with pretensions to being a CS type should know
at least 3 rather well (preferably from different families,
e.g. a LISPish one should be part of the mix).
Python defines a namespace in which to come up for air, get
some overview, have your mind suffused with the necessary
abstractions, but then where you go from here is very domain-
dependent. If you're a budding videogame programmer, you're
likely going to move off towards C/C++ and/or assembler
and/or other packages and skills. No problem. We're not
trying to set up a perimeter to hem students in, making
their knowledge strictly coincident with that of any given
Python user's. We're trying to open doors, many of which
are exits from Python (many drift in and out).
Kirby
Notes:
[1] actually, in my own case, '4D' would be another
way of describing '3D', because I've tracked Bucky Fuller
into the remote reaches of his off-beat synergetics
vocabulary. He didn't "believe" in dimensionality as
normally foisted upon us in this culture (in school
rooms, one room or otherwise), didn't think "height,
width and breadth" are really conceptual primitives,
rather that "volume" comes as a package deal, indivisible.
Given the tetrahedron is the "room with the fewest walls"
(the most primitive container), he was inclined to call
volume '4D', thinking of the tetrahedron's 4 vertices
or 4 faces (as you prefer). But this is very esoteric
-- no one talks this way except Fuller Schoolers. On
the other hand, such thinking did inspire David Chako
and others to elaborate a 4D coordinate system that uses
4-tuples instead of xyz 3-tuples for points in space.
And it doesn't require negative numbers be used for
any point's address. I've built this 4-tuple vector
into coords.py as a subclass of Vector (called Qvector)
i.e.
class Qvector(Vector):
"""Subclass of Vector that takes quadray coordinate args"""
[2] Most high school level approaches to matrices
that I've seen make do with the "simultaneous equations"
problem, solved by reducing a matrix, and never get into
rotation, scaling, translation, as applications of matrix
algebra (except maybe briefly, and then usually only in
a plane). This is probably because it's labor intensive,
using paper and pencil, to apply the same rotation matrix
to the 12 or so vertices of a polyhedron. Too much work.
But that's precisely where computers come in, giving us
the opportunity to do something fun and intellectually
stimulating with this matrix concept. For related reading
at my website, see: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/cowenmemo.html
(Cowen later responded and said he thought my ideas were
on target and interesting).
From ajs@ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 28 14:10:48 2000
From: ajs@ix.netcom.com (Arthur Siegel)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:10:48 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] PyGeo available
Message-ID: <000601c070d7$fb62a740$c8e06dd1@oemcomputer>
Group -
PyGeo as is can be retrieved from:
http://home.ix.netcom.com/~ajs/zipfiles/
Sample scripts included in the zip file.
Also there is javageo - a web-enabled java version for anybody interested in
taking a look.
The announcement comes with my usual demand that all within earshot drop
what they are doing, retrieve, explore for 1.75 hours and revert with
laudatory comments in a timely manner.
ART
From fcy@acm.org Thu Dec 28 16:40:32 2000
From: fcy@acm.org (Fred Yankowski)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 10:40:32 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] number-line graphics for teaching arithmetic
Message-ID: <20001228104032.A15576@enteract.com>
My 7-year-old son is learning arithmetic and I'd like him to be able
to play with some kind of interactive number line program in order to
learn some visualizations of arithmetic. I'm thinking that this group
-- with its keen interest in Python and graphics -- might have some
suggestions of how I could find/create such a program.
Here are some scenarios of use:
+ Child types "8 + 5" into a text box (or describes that same
calculation in some point&click interface). Program then displays a
number line with a vector drawn from 0 to 8, labeled with the quantity
"8", and another vector drawn from 8 to 13, labeled "5".
+ Child types "16 - 9". Program displays a vector from 0 to 16 and
another vector of length 9 from 16 back to 7.
+ As above, but program also draws an additional vector to represent
the sum of the original vectors.
+ Working from the graphic for "8 + 5", the child drags the right-most
end of the "5" vector. The program interactively redraws the "5"
vector, relabeling it to new lengths based on current pointer
location. Only whole-number points on the number line can be
selected.
As you can see, this is quite trivial. The goal (at least at first)
is not to teach programming, but rather to provide an interactive
visualization of basic arithmetic. Even so, Python seems
well-suited. So what graphic packages might work well with Python to
allow me to do this? The ability to deploy the resulting application
via a web page would be a big plus, but not essential. (Thinking
about that last point, perhaps Flash might be the way to go in the
long run.)
--
Fred Yankowski fred@OntoSys.com tel: +1.630.879.1312
Principal Consultant www.OntoSys.com fax: +1.630.879.1370
OntoSys, Inc 38W242 Deerpath Rd, Batavia, IL 60510, USA
From pdx4d@teleport.com Fri Dec 29 07:34:06 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 23:34:06 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] number-line graphics for teaching arithmetic
In-Reply-To: <20001228104032.A15576@enteract.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
Hi Fred --
Your number line program sounds like fun -- especially for
the person learning a programming language. For a 7 year
old, it might be just as instructive to use felt pens or
colored pencils though.
As mentioned at my "Getting Inventive with Vectors" at
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/numeracy1.html , I like to
go for a more complete vector concept, and not make the number
line too front and center initially. Space first, planes
and lines second, is my approach (take freedoms away later,
but start with what's most familiar and real i.e. volume).
The way the curriculum is now, we associate numbers with
lengths, and then take this away later, saying you need
vectors to extend in space, whereas the real numbers only
*scale* vectors (are not independently geometric).
So to kids, it seems like real numbers start out acting like
vectors, but then vectors come along and start doing the
number line thing like they've already been doing -- but
now using this new terminology. Confusing. Recapitulates
the historical sequence (Euclid -> Grassmann) more than
presents a coherent conceptual logic.[1]
The idea of translating a pencil through space without rotation
should be communicable to a 7 year old. If it slides around
in space without change in orientation, that's what we call
translation (I bet with whole body movements the idea of
motion without rotation would get across -- e.g. have kids
slide across the room without changing the direction they're
facing).
So you have a bunch of these pencils pointing in various directions
(various lengths too, if you like), and you get to slide them
anywhere so long as you don't change direction. Put them
tip-to-tail and that's what we mean by "adding the pencils"
(or call them arrows -- then it's just a short step to "vectors"
-- as a key term).
Here, a computer could be helpful, giving a graphical notion
of different segments adding up tip-to-tail. It's hard to hold a
lot of pencils in space. Pictures help.
You could talk about a swimming sea turtle that swallowed a die
(random chooser device). At each turn to play, it could pick
any of the (6) plus/minus XYZ vectors and move in that direction,
with each hop being a segment (a tail-to-tip interval corresponding
to a pencil in the above discussion):
>>> import turtles, povray, functions # Python 101 modules
>>> myfile = povray.Povray("ocean.pov") # open a povray file
>>> seaturt = turtles.Turtle(turtles.xyzrays(),myfile) # xyz freedoms
>>> seaturt.randomwalk(10) # take 10 random hops
>>> functions.xyzaxes(myfile,3) # add xyz axes to picture
>>> myfile.close() # close file
>>> myfile.render() # render (or do it manually)
Result: http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/graphics/ocean.gif
(notice how the turtle back-tracks at one point).
Because these kids start in space, they already know what a
tetrahedron and an icosahedron are too, and so you can intelligibly
have your turtle swim in one of the 4 directions defined by the
tetrahedron's 4 vertices (or one of the icosahedron's 12).
The turtles.py module already defines tetrays and icorays
for this purpose.
See "Random Walks in the Matrix":
http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/ocn/numeracy3.html
Once a fully spatial sense is developed, THEN I'd reduce it to
a single line on which you can only point left or right (or whatever
we call the two directions (your left or my left?)). I do it
this way because I think space/volume is actually more natural
and easier to understand than these artificially constrained
"number line" domains.
At this number line level, with degrees of freedom highly
(artificially) restricted, you could, if you wanted, do some
simple programming. Maybe with slightly older kids.
For example (the methods in action):
>>> a = arrow(10)
>>> b = arrow(-5)
>>> c = arrow(8)
>>> d = arrow(-3)
>>> e = arrow(9)
>>> aprinter([a,b,c,d,e])
10 ---------->
-5 <-----
8 -------->
-3 <---
9 --------->
Result 19
>>> aprinter([a,c,d,d])
10 ---------->
8 -------->
-3 <---
-3 <---
Result 12
=========================
Simple source code behind the above:
def arrow(n):
line=''
if n<0: line = '<'
line+=abs(n)*'-'
if n>0: line += ">"
line += '\n'
return (n,line)
def aprinter(arrows):
sum = 0
for a in arrows:
print "%#3i %s" % a
sum += a[0]
print "Result %#3i " % sum
[1]
http://www.maths.utas.edu.au/People/dfs/Papers/GrassmannLinAlgpaper/node1.html
From fred@ontosys.com Fri Dec 29 16:29:44 2000
From: fred@ontosys.com (Fred Yankowski)
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:29:44 -0600
Subject: [Edu-sig] number-line graphics for teaching arithmetic
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>; from pdx4d@teleport.com on Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:34:06PM -0800
References: <20001228104032.A15576@enteract.com> <3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <20001229102944.A81981@enteract.com>
Kirby,
Thank you for the reply. I've read through some of your "Numeracy"
writings in the past and have run some of the Python/PovRay programs
as well. I'll try running the examples you included in your note.
On Thu, Dec 28, 2000 at 11:34:06PM -0800, Kirby Urner wrote:
> Your number line program sounds like fun -- especially for
> the person learning a programming language. For a 7 year
> old, it might be just as instructive to use felt pens or
> colored pencils though.
My primary goal is to teach useful visual models for arithmetic.
Doing some fun programming (myself and/or with my son) is a bonus, but
secondary.
> As mentioned at my "Getting Inventive with Vectors" at
> http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/numeracy1.html ,
... I think that URL should be
...
> I like to go for a more complete vector concept, and not make the
> number line too front and center initially. Space first, planes and
> lines second, is my approach (take freedoms away later, but start
> with what's most familiar and real i.e. volume).
That sounds cool, but I'm not convinced about how well it actually
plays out. Worth a try though.
> So to kids, it seems like real numbers start out acting like
> vectors, but then vectors come along and start doing the
> number line thing like they've already been doing -- but
> now using this new terminology. Confusing. Recapitulates
> the historical sequence (Euclid -> Grassmann) more than
> presents a coherent conceptual logic.[1]
I followed your references about Grassmann and I'm interested in
learning more. Can you refer me to some good books on the subject?
I took many Math classes in college (too many years ago) so I can
handle an in-depth presentation. I've meant to learn differential
geometry for many years, ever since picking up Wheeler's "Gravitation"
book, but have never taken the time to do so. Maybe this study will
edge me into it. While browsing in the bookstore I encountered a book
called "Geometric Transformations" by Mortenson. Is that a good
reference for this subject?
--
Fred Yankowski fred@OntoSys.com tel: +1.630.879.1312
Principal Consultant www.OntoSys.com fax: +1.630.879.1370
OntoSys, Inc 38W242 Deerpath Rd, Batavia, IL 60510, USA
From pdx4d@teleport.com Sun Dec 31 04:56:00 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 20:56:00 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] number-line graphics for teaching arithmetic
In-Reply-To: <20001229102944.A81981@enteract.com>
References: <3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
<20001228104032.A15576@enteract.com>
<3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001230205600.007a2740@pop.teleport.com>
>> As mentioned at my "Getting Inventive with Vectors" at
>> http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/numeracy1.html ,
>
>... I think that URL should be
> ...
Thanks -- a mistake I make more often than I care to admit.
>I followed your references about Grassmann and I'm interested in
>learning more. Can you refer me to some good books on the subject?
>I took many Math classes in college (too many years ago) so I can
>handle an in-depth presentation. I've meant to learn differential
>geometry for many years, ever since picking up Wheeler's "Gravitation"
>book, but have never taken the time to do so. Maybe this study will
>edge me into it. While browsing in the bookstore I encountered a book
>called "Geometric Transformations" by Mortenson. Is that a good
>reference for this subject?
>
I think the best reference, or a very good one, is
Michael J. Crowe's 'A History of Vector Analysis: The Evolution
of the Idea of a Vectorial System' (Dover, 1967, 1994). And
because it's Dover, it's highly affordable (unlike Springer-Verlag
stuff, which tends to be pricey).
Kirby
From pdx4d@teleport.com Sun Dec 31 18:10:48 2000
From: pdx4d@teleport.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 10:10:48 -0800
Subject: [Edu-sig] number-line graphics for teaching arithmetic
In-Reply-To: <20001229102944.A81981@enteract.com>
References: <3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
<20001228104032.A15576@enteract.com>
<3.0.3.32.20001228233406.00a66100@pop.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20001231101048.009bdd70@pop.teleport.com>
>> I like to go for a more complete vector concept, and not make the
>> number line too front and center initially. Space first, planes and
>> lines second, is my approach (take freedoms away later, but start
>> with what's most familiar and real i.e. volume).
>
>That sounds cool, but I'm not convinced about how well it actually
>plays out. Worth a try though.
>
Just an addendum: vectors are like dashed lines on a map.
Because of topography, the actual path goes up and down too.
It's every day experience. If you think of little arrows
showing your path from the kitchen to the bedroom, or from
your house to the grocery store, then that's tip-to-tail
vector addition. It's just a matter of adding those arrows
to the picture (a thought experiment).
Number line motion is more constrained, like a window in
a frame -- opens or closes. So you could take a closed
window (starting state) and to W+ W+ W+ W+, then W- W-.
These are increments in the "more open" and "more closed"
direction.
I guess you could say my approach is to deliberately get
away from the very abstract little pictures and go for real
world situations when possible. Then back to the pictures
(after a decent interval talking up the real world special
cases -- not "word problems" necessarily, just analogous
concepts).
I tend to think of these demos as "Sesame Street shorts" --
like all those video clips about the letter A and number 9,
except here about vectors, great circles, polyhedra, whatever.
E.g. I imagine kid voice in chorus saying "Open" "Open",
"Closed" and this window slides a bit each time. Then you
do the same thing with some valve-looking thing (circular
motion).
To this end, I think the Flash format might be very useful,
but haven't had time to master the relevant apps myself.
I imagine a huge collection of "math clips" being archived
to a DVD juke box (or single DVDs if the juke box is too
expensive/fancy in a given context).
The teacher can pull up these clips in a sort of "stream of
consciousness" manner, i.e. because they're quite short (many
under a minute), you keep the narrative threads going, plus
the teacher is in control of sequencing (much of the time)
-- not like traditional AV, where you devote pretty much
the whole class, or half of it, to some documentary or other.
Just sort of rambling here. Python is part of the mix in
these idealized math classes. Again, it's often a matter of
the teacher simply typing a few lines of code as she or he
presents, as in:
"Let's take prime numbers between 60,000 and 60,500..."
>>> pri = filter(lambda x: x<=60500 and x>=60000,primes.get2nb(60700))
>>> pri
[60013, 60017, 60029, 60037, 60041, 60077, 60083, 60089, 60091,
60101, 60103, 60107, 60127, 60133, 60139, 60149, 60161, 60167,
60169, 60209, 60217, 60223, 60251, 60257, 60259, 60271, 60289,
60293, 60317, 60331, 60337, 60343, 60353, 60373, 60383, 60397,
60413, 60427, 60443, 60449, 60457, 60493, 60497]
"Now lets run a Fermat test on them, using 2 as a base..."
>>> >>> map(primes.fermat,map(long,pri))
[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,
1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1]
... and so on.
NOTE: in this case, running get2nb(60700) or so before
class might have been a good idea, as it took a minute or
so to generate 'em using trial-by-division. But they're
cached, so the 2nd time, the the function returns quasi-
instantaneously.
Kirby