[Distutils] latest setuptools appears to require six in a breaking way

[Eric Brunson]

Donald,

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain the situation so
thoroughly.  I guess it's pretty easy to get confused by where the tools
overlap and where they are disjoint.  I think I understand better.

To be sure, my original email was focused on the setuptools instability
we've seen in the past 6 to 8 weeks, as we rely on that for our CI and
deployment automation.  I hope is a growing pain and things will settle
down in the near term.  I know there are big changes going on and these
sorts of things can't always be painless.

Sincerely,
e.

On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 12:14 PM Eric Brunson <brunson at brunson.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 5:52 PM Donald Stufft <donald at stufft.io> wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 25, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Eric Brunson <brunson at brunson.com> wrote:
>
> It wasn't until recently the I realized how quickly releases to setuptools
> and pip are being made, starting back in mid Dec when much of our
> dependency resolution started failing.  There were three releases in the
> past two days.  Four major and 22 minor releases in the past two months.
> While I applaud the speed of development and the improvement in these
> tools, don't you feel that breaking changes should be advertised better
> before release or perhaps we should slow down the cadence for release?
>
> I think an expectation that every setuptools user in the community start
> their day by checking to see if there was a release in the past 24 hours is
> a little unreasonable.  I've spent a dozen hours since 32.0.0 resolving
> breakage in my own projects and assisting other developers in my org with
> their setuptools issues, all the while pushing setuptools as the best
> practice to do development and distribution.  Is this period of breaking
> changes a short term thing that we just have to tough out for a few more
> weeks?
>
> Thanks,
> e.
>
>
>
> I don’t believe that pip is really releasing that quickly. We generally
> make 1-2 “major” versions a year that include breaking changes, 2-4 “minor”
> releases a year that add new features, and 6-10 patch releases that fix
> bugs. To me that feels like a pretty decent pace of balancing not breaking
> people and getting new changes into people’s hands and getting rid of
> broken or less optimal parts of the code.
>
> Now, setuptools is releasing faster than pip is and whether that’s a good
> thing or not I don’t know. That’s a question for Jason largely :)
>
>
> Hey Donald,
>
> Thanks for the reply.
>
> Doesn't pip rely heavily on setuptools?  I understand they have different
> origins, but I thought that since pip was moved under the purview of PYPA a
> lot of work was being done to converge the projects. When I run a pip -e
> one of the last message I see is "running setuptools.py develop", which
> isn't really a dependency, but can certainly cause people to infer that the
> problem is with pip and not know setuptools. Even the release notes
> Matthias references mentions pip as though it might be affected.
>
> If pip doesn't rely on setuptools, does that mean we have two separate and
> possibly different dependency resolution algorithms?
>
> Sincerely,
> e.
>
> _______________________________________________
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