From ams.fwd at gmail.com Mon Apr 1 20:04:38 2013 From: ams.fwd at gmail.com (AM) Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2013 11:04:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Who else has played with AWS new OpsWorks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5159CC36.9040409@gmail.com> On 03/30/2013 10:26 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > AWS has a fairly new OpsWorks app that is basically Chef in a web > interface so one can deploy their own python apps. > > I'm trying to add a custom Django 1.5 layer and app and was wondering > if anyone has already approached this problem? > > Cheers, > > > Glen > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does > his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, > bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies Based on some early deployments that I have tested out, my experience has been the following: Pros: - Rapid deployment to many many instances via a single click or cli command. - Easy interface for setting up stacks and layers - I would recommend using their interface for installing system packages instead of using chef (appears to be faster) - Since it runs chef-solo, you can test out chef changes easily without messing with environments Cons: - Its based on the Peritor/Scalarium branch of chef which is roughly a patched version of 0.9.14 or so, not all existing cookbooks will work and may require patching. - No databags, though it can be simulated with custom chef options in the stack - Instance bringup time is looong. From what I can tell the instance boots at least twice. - I would recommend wrapping all recipes for each of the layer steps in a single recipe, so that you can run it when you need it. There seems to be no way to run setup or configure from the API or UI other than executing custom recipes. - Non-instance bring-up steps can randomly fail or take a long time so you do need to watch it to make sure that they completed properly - No ELB support, you have to manually add it to an AS group - EIP support is a bit weird, ie if you already have one, you cannot use it, although it /can/ generate one for you which seems a tad useless. - For development purposes I would highly recommend running an instance with 0.9.16 for testing purposes or else it gets very very painful. HTH AM From newtonhanes at hushmail.com Wed Apr 3 00:59:12 2013 From: newtonhanes at hushmail.com (newtonhanes at hushmail.com) Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2013 18:59:12 -0400 Subject: [Baypiggies] Biggest Fake Conference in Computer Science In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20130402225912.9869010E2D5@smtp.hushmail.com> We are researchers from different parts of the world and conducted a study on the world?s biggest bogus computer science conference WORLDCOMP ( http://sites.google.com/site/worlddump1 ) organized by Prof. Hamid Arabnia from University of Georgia, USA. We submitted a fake paper to WORLDCOMP 2011 and again (the same paper with a modified title) to WORLDCOMP 2012. This paper had numerous fundamental mistakes. Sample statements from that paper include: (1). Binary logic is fuzzy logic and vice versa (2). Pascal developed fuzzy logic (3). Object oriented languages do not exhibit any polymorphism or inheritance (4). TCP and IP are synonyms and are part of OSI model (5). Distributed systems deal with only one computer (6). Laptop is an example for a super computer (7). Operating system is an example for computer hardware Also, our paper did not express any conceptual meaning. However, it was accepted both the times without any modifications (and without any reviews) and we were invited to submit the final paper and a payment of $500+ fee to present the paper. We decided to use the fee for better purposes than making Prof. Hamid Arabnia (Chairman of WORLDCOMP) rich. After that, we received few reminders from WORLDCOMP to pay the fee but we never responded. We MUST say that you should look at the above website if you have any thoughts to submit a paper to WORLDCOMP. DBLP and other indexing agencies have stopped indexing WORLDCOMP?s proceedings since 2011 due to its fakeness. See http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/db/conf/icai/index.html for of one of the conferences of WORLDCOMP and notice that there is no listing after 2010. See http://sites.google.com/site/dumpconf for comments from well-known researchers about WORLDCOMP. The status of your WORLDCOMP papers can be changed from ?scientific? to ?other? (i.e., junk or non-technical) at any time. See the comments http://www.mail-archive.com/tccc at lists.cs.columbia.edu/msg05168.html of a respected researcher on this. Better not to have a paper than having it in WORLDCOMP and spoil the resume and peace of mind forever! Our study revealed that WORLDCOMP is a money making business, using University of Georgia mask, for Prof. Hamid Arabnia. He is throwing out a small chunk of that money (around 20 dollars per paper published in WORLDCOMP?s proceedings) to his puppet (Mr. Ashu Solo or A.M.G. Solo) who publicizes WORLDCOMP and also defends it at various forums, using fake/anonymous names. The puppet uses fake names and defames other conferences to divert traffic to WORLDCOMP. That is, the puppet does all his best to get a maximum number of papers published at WORLDCOMP to get more money into his (and Prof. Hamid Arabnia?s) pockets. Monte Carlo Resort (the venue of WORLDCOMP until 2012) has refused to provide the venue for WORLDCOMP?13 because of the fears of their image being tarnished due to WORLDCOMP?s fraudulent activities. WORLDCOMP?13 will be held at a different resort. WORLDCOMP will not be held after 2013. The paper submission deadline for WORLDCOMP?13 was March 18 and it is extended to April 6 (it will be extended many times, as usual) but still there are no committee members, no reviewers, and there is no conference Chairman. The only contact details available on WORLDCOMP?s website is just an email address! What bothers us the most is that Prof. Hamid Arabnia never posted an apology for the damage he has done to the research community. He is still trying to defend WORLDCOMP. Let us make a direct request to him: publish all reviews for all the papers (after blocking identifiable details) since 2000 conference. Reveal the names and affiliations of all the reviewers (for each year) and how many papers each reviewer had reviewed on average. We also request him to look at the Open Challenge at http://sites.google.com/site/dumpconf Sorry for posting to multiple lists. Spreading the word is the only way to stop this bogus conference. Please forward this message to other mailing lists and people. We are shocked with Prof. Hamid Arabnia and his puppet?s activities http://worldcomp-fake-bogus.blogspot.com Search Google using the keyword worldcomp fake for additional links. From aahz at pythoncraft.com Wed Apr 3 04:03:11 2013 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Tue, 2 Apr 2013 22:03:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] OSCON 2013 registration is open Message-ID: <20130403020311.2C15D34604@mailbackend.panix.com> OSCON (O'Reilly Open Source Conference) will be held in Portland, OR July 22-26. This year we're celebrating the fifteenth anniversary! Registration is now open: http://www.oscon.com/oscon2013 http://www.oscon.com/oscon2013/public/schedule/grid Hope to see you there! -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "The joy of coding Python should be in seeing short, concise, readable classes that express a lot of action in a small amount of clear code -- not in reams of trivial code that bores the reader to death." --GvR From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 9 22:11:20 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 13:11:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for volunteers to take over the Baypiggies meetings in the South Bay Message-ID: Hi Everyone, There's a good chance that I'll be out of town for the April Baypiggies meeting. We do have someone interested in doing a presentation, I expect that his abstract will be emailed to me early this week. Regarding the future of the Baypiggies meetings.... I've been recruiting presenters for the Baypiggies meetings for quite a while now, it's time to pass the reigns onto other people. Ideally, this responsibility should be shared by more than one person, so that there is always someone to cover the meetings. Additionally, I have been the liaison with several book publishers to coordinate book distribution to reviewers and submit the book reviews back to the publishers. This is an optional responsibility, but the group can get discounts and other perks from the publishers, not to mention free books in exchange for good book reviews. This may sound like a lot of work, but most of this can be done via email and/or your web browser. Quite often, I've found presenters while I was attending presentations other than Bapiggies (SVLug, BArCMuT, ACCU, etc..) Someone does need to physically show up for the presentations though, to introduce the speakers and usher the meetings along. The website also needs to be updated on a monthly basis as well. If you are interested in doing this please contact me off-list, and I'll fill you in on the details. Thank you Tony Cappellini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 10 03:08:41 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 18:08:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies presentation topic for April 25, 2013 Message-ID: Hello Baypiggies, Daniel Myzyrycki has proposed this for the topic for the presentation on April 25. Since there is no contention for other presentations on this date, I see no reason why we should not proceed with this topic. Buildbot on Dotcloud and Docker: "Exercising your code often is key as it allows to spot and correct issues early, saving time and effort. Buildbot is a python continuous integration system designed to automate the build/test cycle. Docker is a Linux container runtime that complements LXC with a high-level API, running unix processes with strong guarantees of isolation and repeatability across servers." If you have projects that you would like to give a presentation on for meetings after April, please post a message to the list. Thank You Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 10 20:45:09 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:45:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Are any Symantec employees members of Baypiggies? Message-ID: Hello Baypiggies, We have received an email from Symantec requesting that an employee from Symantec present at the meetings. Are any of you Symantec employees- and if so, are you able to attend the meetings on a regular basis? Thanks Tony On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Amalia Francia (CS) < Amalia_Francia at symantec.com> wrote: Hi Tony, Would you happen to have a Symantec sponsor for future meetings in the caf?? Kristin Swanson used to be the sponsor but she is no longer with the company and it is required that a Symantec employee/host be present for all meetings going forward. Unfortunately, without a Symantec host, I will no longer be allowed to reserve the vCafe for your group. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smcbutler at gmail.com Sun Apr 14 23:31:22 2013 From: smcbutler at gmail.com (Simon Butler) Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:31:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python/Django developer needed Message-ID: Hi, we are a Mountain View, CA based startup company and are looking for a Python/Django person to develop/deploy Python based design tools. We are profitable with an established user based and offer competitive salaries/benefits, ESO plan etc. We are looking for an experienced programmer to help us scale our application, help with testing and other duties. You should be a problem solver, well organized with good communication skills. Please contact me directly for more information. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 22:30:21 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:30:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting changes. They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our meetings? In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google employees look into this and report back? What are your thoughts? Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simeonf at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 22:55:58 2013 From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:55:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I asked about the possibility of hosting us at Facebook last week when I saw discussions on the mailing list. I got an *extremely preliminary* positive response. If that were a firm offer how would Baypiggies as a whole feel about moving 9 miles North-West to the Facebook complex on Willow Road? Should I pursue Facebook as a possible regular venue? -regards Simeon Franklin 209 846-2151 On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > > Hello Everyone, > > > Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We > are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting > changes. > They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > > In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed > indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > > Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our > meetings? > > In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google > employees look into this and report back? > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > Thanks > > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From camembert at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 22:35:47 2013 From: camembert at gmail.com (Elizabeth Leddy) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 13:35:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might be worth asking them. Liz -- Elizabeth Leddy Sent with Sparrow (http://www.sparrowmailapp.com/?sig) On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > > Hello Everyone, > > > Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting changes. > They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > > In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > > Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our meetings? > > In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google employees look into this and report back? > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > Thanks > > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org (mailto:Baypiggies at python.org) > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at ericwalstad.com Tue Apr 16 23:01:15 2013 From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:01:15 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mozilla in SF gets my +1 EW On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: > I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always really > gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might be > worth asking them. > > Liz > > -- > Elizabeth Leddy > Sent with Sparrow > > On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. > We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting > changes. > They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > > In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed > indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > > Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our > meetings? > > In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google > employees look into this and report back? > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > Thanks > > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hyperneato at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:03:32 2013 From: hyperneato at gmail.com (Isaac) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:03:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 for SF On Tuesday, April 16, 2013, Eric Walstad wrote: > Mozilla in SF gets my +1 > EW > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy > > wrote: > >> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always >> really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might >> be worth asking them. >> >> Liz >> >> -- >> Elizabeth Leddy >> Sent with Sparrow >> >> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> >> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. >> We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting >> changes. >> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >> >> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed >> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >> >> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host >> our meetings? >> >> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google >> employees look into this and report back? >> >> >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tony >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org > 'Baypiggies at python.org');> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org > 'Baypiggies at python.org');> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:07:32 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:07:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the replies so far. This is always a painful process.... There is already a very large Python presence in SF with the Python Meetups hosted by Grace Law (and others, possibly) As I understand it, some of these meetings have turnouts of close to 100 people. Additionally, I believe there is yet another group known as the SF Python Drinkup (or something very close to that) It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, when there are already more than 1 Python-based meetings in the North Bay. The North-Bay meetings seem to be focused on web-based technologies, whereas the South-Bay meetings are more diverse. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad wrote: > Mozilla in SF gets my +1 > EW > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: > >> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always >> really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might >> be worth asking them. >> >> Liz >> >> -- >> Elizabeth Leddy >> Sent with Sparrow >> >> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> >> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. >> We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting >> changes. >> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >> >> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed >> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >> >> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host >> our meetings? >> >> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google >> employees look into this and report back? >> >> >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tony >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:08:16 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:08:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: <516DBD81.3080508@alluvialsw.com> References: <516DBD81.3080508@alluvialsw.com> Message-ID: +1 for FB, Menlo Park On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Monte Davidoff wrote: > On 4/16/13 1:55 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > >> Should I pursue Facebook as a possible regular venue? >> > > +1 for Facebook in Menlo Park > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at ericwalstad.com Tue Apr 16 23:18:19 2013 From: eric at ericwalstad.com (Eric Walstad) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:18:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good points, Tony. I hereby rescind my +1 for Mozilla SF. EW On Apr 16, 2013 2:07 PM, "Tony Cappellini" wrote: > Thanks for the replies so far. This is always a painful process.... > > > There is already a very large Python presence in SF with the Python > Meetups hosted by Grace Law (and others, possibly) > As I understand it, some of these meetings have turnouts of close to 100 > people. Additionally, I believe there is yet another group > known as the SF Python Drinkup (or something very close to that) > > It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, > when there are already more than 1 Python-based > meetings in the North Bay. The North-Bay meetings seem to be focused on > web-based technologies, whereas the South-Bay meetings > are more diverse. > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad wrote: > >> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >> EW >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: >> >>> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always >>> really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might >>> be worth asking them. >>> >>> Liz >>> >>> -- >>> Elizabeth Leddy >>> Sent with Sparrow >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> >>> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years >>> now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our >>> meeting changes. >>> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >>> >>> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed >>> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >>> >>> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host >>> our meetings? >>> >>> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google >>> employees look into this and report back? >>> >>> >>> >>> What are your thoughts? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Tony >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bpeterso2000 at yahoo.com Tue Apr 16 23:22:27 2013 From: bpeterso2000 at yahoo.com (Brian Peterson) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1366147347.48162.YahooMailNeo@web124905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> +1 for Facebook, Menlo Park ________________________________ From: Simeon Franklin To: Tony C Cc: Baypiggies Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed I asked about the possibility of hosting us at Facebook last week when I saw discussions on the mailing list. I got an *extremely preliminary* positive response. If that were a firm offer how would Baypiggies as a whole feel about moving 9 miles North-West to the Facebook complex on Willow Road? Should I pursue Facebook as a possible regular venue? -regards Simeon Franklin 209 846-2151 On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > > Hello Everyone, > > > Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We > are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting > changes. > They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > > In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed > indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > > Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our > meetings? > > In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google > employees look into this and report back? > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > Thanks > > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies _______________________________________________ Baypiggies mailing list Baypiggies at python.org To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:25:30 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:25:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alex, Are you a Mozilla employee? If so, please inquire as to Mozilla's rules for user groups meetings. Thanks On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Alex Kevin Wright wrote: > What about Mozilla in Mtn View? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > Thanks for the replies so far. This is always a painful process.... > > > There is already a very large Python presence in SF with the Python > Meetups hosted by Grace Law (and others, possibly) > As I understand it, some of these meetings have turnouts of close to 100 > people. Additionally, I believe there is yet another group > known as the SF Python Drinkup (or something very close to that) > > It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, > when there are already more than 1 Python-based > meetings in the North Bay. The North-Bay meetings seem to be focused on > web-based technologies, whereas the South-Bay meetings > are more diverse. > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad wrote: > >> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >> EW >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: >> >>> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always >>> really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might >>> be worth asking them. >>> >>> Liz >>> >>> -- >>> Elizabeth Leddy >>> Sent with Sparrow >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> >>> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years >>> now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our >>> meeting changes. >>> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >>> >>> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed >>> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >>> >>> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host >>> our meetings? >>> >>> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google >>> employees look into this and report back? >>> >>> >>> >>> What are your thoughts? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Tony >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simeonf at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:29:55 2013 From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:29:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: I wasn't going to say anything to this point because (confession) I co-organize SF Python Meetup. Hy Carrel (sometime baypiggy) does as well and Grace Law is the organizer. I had last year suggested Baypiggies move up the penninsula to be more accessible to the crowd of Pythonistas in SF proper; at that time Baypiggies as a community expressed the desire to serve the South Bay and told me to go kick SF Python back into gear if I wanted a meetup in SF. Did that, thanks :) So - SF Python isn't opposed to Baypiggies coming North or even combining forces - but I think Baypiggies already has expressed a preference for remaining a meetup for San Jose, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, etc that don't currently have a Python meetup that's easy to get to. I think (hope) Menlo Park still fits that preference. Pretty sure SF doesn't. Thanks Eric for understanding - come back out to SF Python sometime! Tony we do stuff besides the web... sometimes :) -best Simeon Franklin >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad >> wrote: >>> >>> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >>> EW From alizonelliott at mac.com Tue Apr 16 23:08:43 2013 From: alizonelliott at mac.com (Alizon Elliott) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:08:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66F93FD1-5A36-4B9B-AB36-30B2ADA4E0AD@mac.com> I think Facebook would be a great alternative. Alizon Elliott On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > I asked about the possibility of hosting us at Facebook last week when > I saw discussions on the mailing list. I got an *extremely > preliminary* positive response. If that were a firm offer how would > Baypiggies as a whole feel about moving 9 miles North-West to the > Facebook complex on Willow Road? Should I pursue Facebook as a > possible regular venue? > > -regards > Simeon Franklin > 209 846-2151 > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> >> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We >> are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting >> changes. >> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >> >> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed >> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >> >> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our >> meetings? >> >> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google >> employees look into this and report back? >> >> >> >> What are your thoughts? >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tony >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From kenobi at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:33:25 2013 From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:33:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: <66F93FD1-5A36-4B9B-AB36-30B2ADA4E0AD@mac.com> References: <66F93FD1-5A36-4B9B-AB36-30B2ADA4E0AD@mac.com> Message-ID: Up the street from Symantec is the Hacker Dojo. Is anyone a member there? --Rick Kwan On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Alizon Elliott wrote: > I think Facebook would be a great alternative. > > Alizon Elliott > > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 1:55 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > > > I asked about the possibility of hosting us at Facebook last week when > > I saw discussions on the mailing list. I got an *extremely > > preliminary* positive response. If that were a firm offer how would > > Baypiggies as a whole feel about moving 9 miles North-West to the > > Facebook complex on Willow Road? Should I pursue Facebook as a > > possible regular venue? > > > > -regards > > Simeon Franklin > > 209 846-2151 > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hello Everyone, > >> > >> > >> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years > now. We > >> are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting > >> changes. > >> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > >> > >> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed > >> indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > >> > >> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host > our > >> meetings? > >> > >> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google > >> employees look into this and report back? > >> > >> > >> > >> What are your thoughts? > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> > >> Tony > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Baypiggies mailing list > >> Baypiggies at python.org > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meredith at mochipuff.net Tue Apr 16 23:39:15 2013 From: meredith at mochipuff.net (Meredith Prince) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:39:15 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 for Facebook in Menlo Park --Meredith On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > I wasn't going to say anything to this point because (confession) I > co-organize SF Python Meetup. Hy Carrel (sometime baypiggy) does as > well and Grace Law is the organizer. I had last year suggested > Baypiggies move up the penninsula to be more accessible to the crowd > of Pythonistas in SF proper; at that time Baypiggies as a community > expressed the desire to serve the South Bay and told me to go kick SF > Python back into gear if I wanted a meetup in SF. Did that, thanks :) > > So - SF Python isn't opposed to Baypiggies coming North or even > combining forces - but I think Baypiggies already has expressed a > preference for remaining a meetup for San Jose, Sunnyvale, Mountain > View, etc that don't currently have a Python meetup that's easy to get > to. > > I think (hope) Menlo Park still fits that preference. Pretty sure SF > doesn't. Thanks Eric for understanding - come back out to SF Python > sometime! Tony we do stuff besides the web... sometimes :) > > -best > Simeon Franklin > > >>> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >>>> EW > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From cuba at well.com Tue Apr 16 23:31:41 2013 From: cuba at well.com (Larry Cuba) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:31:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20130416142422.0f9a8800@well.com> At 02:07 PM 4/16/2013, you wrote: >It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, when there are already more than 1 Python-based meetings in the North Bay. agreed. especially since some of those south-bay attendees are coming from points pretty far south. like Santa Cruz. From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 16 23:40:34 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:40:34 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: >>I think (hope) Menlo Park still fits that preference. Pretty sure SF > >>doesn't. Thanks Eric for understanding - come back out to SF Python > I'm OK with a move slightly northward, and we have had two good suggestions along those lines. since I've already expressed that I am resigning as the meeting coordinator, I should just be silent and let things work out however they best serve the local Python community. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com Tue Apr 16 23:07:13 2013 From: davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com (Monte Davidoff) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:07:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516DBD81.3080508@alluvialsw.com> On 4/16/13 1:55 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > Should I pursue Facebook as a possible regular venue? +1 for Facebook in Menlo Park From akwright at me.com Tue Apr 16 23:21:43 2013 From: akwright at me.com (Alex Kevin Wright) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:21:43 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: What about Mozilla in Mtn View? Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Thanks for the replies so far. This is always a painful process.... > > > There is already a very large Python presence in SF with the Python Meetups hosted by Grace Law (and others, possibly) > As I understand it, some of these meetings have turnouts of close to 100 people. Additionally, I believe there is yet another group > known as the SF Python Drinkup (or something very close to that) > > It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, when there are already more than 1 Python-based > meetings in the North Bay. The North-Bay meetings seem to be focused on web-based technologies, whereas the South-Bay meetings > are more diverse. > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad wrote: >> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >> EW >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: >>> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might be worth asking them. >>> >>> Liz >>> >>> -- >>> Elizabeth Leddy >>> Sent with Sparrow >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hello Everyone, >>>> >>>> >>>> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting changes. >>>> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >>>> >>>> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >>>> >>>> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our meetings? >>>> >>>> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google employees look into this and report back? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What are your thoughts? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> Tony >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fred at kas-group.com Tue Apr 16 23:53:31 2013 From: fred at kas-group.com (Fred C) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 14:53:31 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: <1366147347.48162.YahooMailNeo@web124905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1366147347.48162.YahooMailNeo@web124905.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B07F2C1-5426-42A4-8A14-9844B59798E7@kas-group.com> Also +1 for Menlo Park. Sent from my iPad On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:22 PM, Brian Peterson wrote: > +1 for Facebook, Menlo Park > > From: Simeon Franklin > To: Tony C > Cc: Baypiggies > Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 1:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed > > I asked about the possibility of hosting us at Facebook last week when > I saw discussions on the mailing list. I got an *extremely > preliminary* positive response. If that were a firm offer how would > Baypiggies as a whole feel about moving 9 miles North-West to the > Facebook complex on Willow Road? Should I pursue Facebook as a > possible regular venue? > > -regards > Simeon Franklin > 209 846-2151 > > > On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everyone, > > > > > > Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We > > are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting > > changes. > > They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. > > > > In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed > > indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. > > > > Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our > > meetings? > > > > In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google > > employees look into this and report back? > > > > > > > > What are your thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Tony > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 01:08:40 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:08:40 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: I've just got a connection at LinkedIn, and am investigating the possibility of them hosting our meetings. Are any Facebook employees members of Baypiggies? Do any Baypiggies know any Facebook employees? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From meredith at mochipuff.net Wed Apr 17 01:26:02 2013 From: meredith at mochipuff.net (Meredith Prince) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 16:26:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 For any site that keeps BayPiggies in the South Bay. --M Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2013, at 4:08 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > I've just got a connection at LinkedIn, and > am investigating the possibility of them hosting our meetings. > > > > > Are any Facebook employees members of Baypiggies? > Do any Baypiggies know any Facebook employees? > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From akwright at me.com Wed Apr 17 00:49:53 2013 From: akwright at me.com (Kevin Wright) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:49:53 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: I actually work for Red Hat on Castro Street in Mountain View and I'm checking with facilities to see we can have the meetings here. The problem is that even if I manage to get a room big enough to accommodate us all, I would need someone posted at the main door to let people in to the building after 6PM. Not exactly a fun job. This is why I was hoping for someone who works for Mozilla in Mountain View could let us use their cafeteria. Another possible venue would be the Linked-In campus where some of the South Bay PyLadies meetings have been held. It's really unfortunate that Symantec has changed their policy or that no Symantec employees could actually attend the meetings since that venue was both large enough for attendees, had sufficient parking and provided an excellent overhead projector. --Kevin On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:21 PM, Alex Kevin Wright wrote: > What about Mozilla in Mtn View? > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 2:07 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > >> Thanks for the replies so far. This is always a painful process.... >> >> >> There is already a very large Python presence in SF with the Python Meetups hosted by Grace Law (and others, possibly) >> As I understand it, some of these meetings have turnouts of close to 100 people. Additionally, I believe there is yet another group >> known as the SF Python Drinkup (or something very close to that) >> >> It would be a shame to shutout the regular Baypiggies south-bay attendees, when there are already more than 1 Python-based >> meetings in the North Bay. The North-Bay meetings seem to be focused on web-based technologies, whereas the South-Bay meetings >> are more diverse. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Eric Walstad wrote: >> Mozilla in SF gets my +1 >> EW >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Elizabeth Leddy wrote: >> I don't know about south bay but mozilla in downtown SF was always really gracious for our Plone meet ups. They are really into python - might be worth asking them. >> >> Liz >> >> -- >> Elizabeth Leddy >> Sent with Sparrow >> >> On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hello Everyone, >>> >>> >>> Symantec has been the host of our monthly meetings for several years now. We are very grateful for the hospitality and responsiveness to our meeting changes. >>> They are now requiring that an employee be present at all meetings. >>> >>> In other words, we have lost our venue. ALL meetings are postponed indefinitely until we find a new home, or decide otherwise. >>> >>> Are any Baypiggies members willing to see if their companies will host our meetings? >>> >>> In the past, Google was a gracious host for us. Would one of the Google employees look into this and report back? >>> >>> >>> >>> What are your thoughts? >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> Tony >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From markrabkin at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 00:35:44 2013 From: markrabkin at gmail.com (Mark Rabkin) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 15:35:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] =?utf-8?b?T3N6xb56cXpj?= Message-ID: <178ED10E-D5A2-4E10-B5E8-79DBE6CE3F16@gmail.com> Sent from my iPhone From simeonf at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 02:28:20 2013 From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 17:28:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies is looking for a new home. The April meeting is postponed In-Reply-To: References: <74E8FAD696A74B00BE90390DFA46C479@gmail.com> Message-ID: Reinforcements from Baypiggies who work at FB would be appreciated! However I did ask a manager there when I taught a class at FB last week. It's already been passed one level up the chain and again, totally unofficially, the reaction was positive. I phrased it as a "we might lose our current host" so it was not a sure thing on our part either. Now that we have definitely lost Symantec and also don't seem to have any objections to FB as a location I'm getting back to my acquaintance who is a manger there and probably willing to go to bat for us. I'll update the list when I have more definitive news. -regards Simeon Franklin On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > I've just got a connection at LinkedIn, and > am investigating the possibility of them hosting our meetings. > > > > > Are any Facebook employees members of Baypiggies? > Do any Baypiggies know any Facebook employees? > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 06:02:51 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 21:02:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN Message-ID: Hello Everyone, LinkedIn has given us a thumbs up and wants to know when our next meeting is. Do we want to make this the regular place for our meetings, or wait to see if we can get something going at FB in Menlo Park, or another venue? Please reply to the list. Thanks Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akwright at me.com Wed Apr 17 06:19:36 2013 From: akwright at me.com (Alex Kevin Wright) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 21:19:36 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for LinkedIn very nice facilities and good location. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > > Hello Everyone, > > LinkedIn has given us a thumbs up and wants to know when our next meeting is. > > Do we want to make this the regular place for our meetings, or wait to see if we can get something going at FB in Menlo Park, > or another venue? > > Please reply to the list. > > Thanks > > > Tony > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From alizonelliott at mac.com Wed Apr 17 07:33:28 2013 From: alizonelliott at mac.com (Alizon Elliott) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 22:33:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for LinkedIn. FB is a great option, but, if we have a BayPiggy who can make LinkedIn happen, that's preferable to talking a non-BayPiggy into helping us with space. Alizon Sent from my iPhone On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:19 PM, Alex Kevin Wright wrote: > +1 for LinkedIn very nice facilities and good location. > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:02 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > >> >> Hello Everyone, >> >> LinkedIn has given us a thumbs up and wants to know when our next meeting is. >> >> Do we want to make this the regular place for our meetings, or wait to see if we can get something going at FB in Menlo Park, >> or another venue? >> >> Please reply to the list. >> >> Thanks >> >> >> Tony >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From stephen at mcquay.me Wed Apr 17 07:49:22 2013 From: stephen at mcquay.me (Stephen M. McQuay) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 22:49:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130417054919.GB96548@octoroc.apple.com> On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 09:02:51PM -0700, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Do we want to make this the regular place for our meetings, or wait to > see if we can get something going at FB in Menlo Park, or another > venue? +1 for LinkeIn. -- Stephen -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 873 bytes Desc: not available URL: From davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com Wed Apr 17 08:52:23 2013 From: davidoff56 at alluvialsw.com (Monte Davidoff) Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2013 23:52:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516E46A7.5060208@alluvialsw.com> On 4/16/13 9:02 PM, Tony Cappellini wrote: > Do we want to make this the regular place for our meetings, or wait to > see if we can get something going at FB in Menlo Park, or another venue? +1 for LinkedIn From cirullo at sonoma.edu Wed Apr 17 17:47:45 2013 From: cirullo at sonoma.edu (Geoff Cirullo) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:47:45 +0000 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? Message-ID: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> Hi, I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding any North Bay groups? Thank You, Geoff From DennisR at dair.com Wed Apr 17 17:50:27 2013 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:50:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN Message-ID: <3ZrSdV15t2zPT9@mail.python.org> >or another venue? +1 LinkedIn From meredith at mochipuff.net Wed Apr 17 17:57:59 2013 From: meredith at mochipuff.net (Meredith Prince) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 08:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for LinkedIn --M From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 17 19:02:06 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 on LinkedIn Can we get it for Thur, 25-April from 7:30 to 9:30 pm -- with time to get in the room to set-up in advance to 7:30pm? Cheers, Glen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pawel.pietkiewicz at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 19:09:26 2013 From: pawel.pietkiewicz at gmail.com (Paul Pietkiewicz) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:09:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies has a new home: We got the OK from LinkedIN In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 for LinkedIn On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > +1 on LinkedIn > > Can we get it for Thur, 25-April from 7:30 to 9:30 pm -- with time to get > in the room to set-up in advance to 7:30pm? > > > Cheers, > > Glen > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 17 19:29:57 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:29:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart Message-ID: Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of the internals). And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. 3 4 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands generators and how to write one 6 - 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least concept of how to write one 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to write one 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library 10 - Guido; Core contributor Cheers, Glen -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rbalfanz at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 19:42:44 2013 From: rbalfanz at gmail.com (Ryan Matthew Balfanz) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:42:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done > this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It > can be useful to explain someone's skill set. > > For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 > below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges > as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 > and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope > on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of > the internals). > > And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's a > better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? > > 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" > 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. > 3 > 4 > 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands > generators and how to write one > 6 - > 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least > concept of how to write one > 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to > write one > 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library > 10 - Guido; Core contributor > > > Cheers, > > > Glen > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his > master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, > unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net Wed Apr 17 19:54:01 2013 From: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net (J. R. Carroll) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:54:01 -0400 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known as psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that others can then use for hiring decisions or ... Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a number of python forums that support job networking... If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then again, it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... but, fun to consider nonetheless! -J ---- J. R. Carroll Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics www.jrcresearch.net www.ontvp.com Cell: (650) 776-6613 Email: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net jrcarroll at hurtzlab.com jrc.csus at gmail.com On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz wrote: > The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: > http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > >> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done >> this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It >> can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >> >> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >> the internals). >> >> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's >> a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >> >> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >> 3 >> 4 >> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands >> generators and how to write one >> 6 - >> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least >> concept of how to write one >> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to >> write one >> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Glen >> -- >> >> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his >> master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, >> unearth it, and gnaw it still." >> >> --Henry David Thoreau >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaleh at speakeasy.net Wed Apr 17 19:51:02 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 10:51:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <69CDAEF7-61B6-472A-877D-C61EF96B05F8@speakeasy.net> Exposure to special member variables and methods like __add__ and the like for overloading. Exposure to docstrings and why they are useful -- knows about help() in the interpreter for instance What makes a Python file a module? What is needed to make a directory of modules loadable (aka __init__.py)? This question about what makes a module has been a solid litmus test for "yeah I have written a function or two" and "I get how Python works". Sad but true. Understands why from foo import bar is preferred to using *. But can also give reasons when to use *. Dynamic coding like using getattr() "Duck typing". Understands the Python idiom of "if the class has method A it works, don't care what class type it really is". Understands why passing in a File object is preferred to passing in a filename. Which leads to the conversation about testing and modularity. What I find interesting about this list is it is mostly "new" stuff. I have coded in Python since 1.5 and I am still learning about decorators. Other than in Django apps I have not used them much. I have never needed dis or the Python internals really. Other than learning about the GIL. On Apr 17, 2013, at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. > > For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of the internals). > > And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? > > 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" > 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. > 3 > 4 > 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands generators and how to write one > 6 - > 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least concept of how to write one > 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to write one > 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library > 10 - Guido; Core contributor > > From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 17 20:37:30 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:37:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This feedback has been invaluable. I encourage this thread to continue. I'm sitting behind the scenes and synthesizing all of this into a consistent/uniform document. When finished, I'll happily share. I've not yet seen a conflict between the different perspectives. Cheers, Glen On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM, J. R. Carroll wrote: > I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known as > psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which > includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements > blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these > requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that > others can then use for hiring decisions or ... > > Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this > listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is > huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this > development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a > group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of > KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF > would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a > number of python forums that support job networking... > > If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then again, > it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... but, > fun to consider nonetheless! > > -J > > > ---- > > > J. R. Carroll > Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs > Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics > www.jrcresearch.net > www.ontvp.com > Cell: (650) 776-6613 > Email: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net > jrcarroll at hurtzlab.com > jrc.csus at gmail.com > > > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz wrote: > >> The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: >> http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> >>> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done >>> this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It >>> can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >>> >>> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >>> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >>> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >>> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >>> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >>> the internals). >>> >>> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's >>> a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >>> >>> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >>> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >>> 3 >>> 4 >>> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands >>> generators and how to write one >>> 6 - >>> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at >>> least concept of how to write one >>> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how >>> to write one >>> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >>> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >>> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> Glen >>> -- >>> >>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does >>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury >>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." >>> >>> --Henry David Thoreau >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ademan555 at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 20:45:04 2013 From: ademan555 at gmail.com (Dan Roberts) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:45:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I feel like this scale compresses the entire range of what I would consider "effective Python developer" into 8 and 9. I think 8 should become 5 or 6. I'm not sure what other concepts to test in the range would be though. Other important competencies and factoids in no particular order are: * Know what PEP8 says, especially when not to use PEP8 * Being able to recite the Zen of Python while standing on your head * Exception handling * Understanding lexical closures in Python * Able to resist the temptation of deeply nested list comprehensions :-) * itertools * Possibly functools * Context Managers (concept and implementation) * Knows setuptools and distribute * Published on PyPi * NumPy, Twisted, Django and/or other common modules used in real world projects are good indicators of "have shipped something". Dumping a bunch of thoughts might not be that useful to the discussion, but here it is anyways! Cheers, Dan On Apr 17, 2013 10:30 AM, "Glen Jarvis" wrote: > Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done > this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It > can be useful to explain someone's skill set. > > For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 > below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges > as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 > and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope > on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of > the internals). > > And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, what's a > better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? > > 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" > 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. > 3 > 4 > 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands > generators and how to write one > 6 - > 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least > concept of how to write one > 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to > write one > 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library > 10 - Guido; Core contributor > > > Cheers, > > > Glen > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his > master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, > unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shakefu at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 20:58:59 2013 From: shakefu at gmail.com (Jake Alheid) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 11:58:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 1. Knows how to install and write "Hello World" 2. Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. 3. Understands basic classes and when to use them vs. a function/module of functions 4. Understands list/dict/set comprehensions and why they're useful; Exception handling and raising; Understands how to use pip/virtualenvs 5. Knows basic decorator usage and how to write them; how to use/write docstrings; understands dynamic lookups (getattr()); how to introspect objects in the interpreter with dir(), help(), etc.; how to write/run tests; Understands why to use virtualenvs 6. Understands magic methods (__getattr__, __setattr__), class methods, static methods, protected (._foo) vs. private (.__foo) members; knows how to write/use generators; knows basic speedups (when to use .join() vs 'str' + 'foo') 7. Understands how to create and distribute a pacakge with setup.py; Understands concurrency in Python and how to implement threading/green threads/callbacks; knows how the GIL affects different concurrency models; has a strong understanding of when to use different design patterns in Python; has a strong organizational understanding of large python projects 8. Understands Meta classes and how to use/write them; understands that everything in Python is a dict; knows order of lookups for variables, class members; knows how to monkeypatch models, instances, sys.modules, .__dict__, etc., and why not to do it; how to use inspect module; Can read/modify C extensions; 9. Understands Python internals (dir, ast, compile modules, ); Can write new C extensions from scratch 10. Guido; Core contributor I'm sure there's a lot more that I'm forgetting. So much Python! -- Jake Alheid http://about.me/jake On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > This feedback has been invaluable. I encourage this thread to continue. > I'm sitting behind the scenes and synthesizing all of this into a > consistent/uniform document. When finished, I'll happily share. > > I've not yet seen a conflict between the different perspectives. > > Cheers, > > > Glen > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM, J. R. Carroll > wrote: > >> I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known >> as psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which >> includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements >> blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these >> requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that >> others can then use for hiring decisions or ... >> >> Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this >> listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is >> huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this >> development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a >> group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of >> KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF >> would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a >> number of python forums that support job networking... >> >> If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then again, >> it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... but, >> fun to consider nonetheless! >> >> -J >> >> >> ---- >> >> >> J. R. Carroll >> Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs >> Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics >> www.jrcresearch.net >> www.ontvp.com >> Cell: (650) 776-6613 >> Email: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net >> jrcarroll at hurtzlab.com >> jrc.csus at gmail.com >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz > > wrote: >> >>> The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: >>> http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >>> >>>> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has >>>> done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for >>>> Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >>>> >>>> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >>>> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >>>> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >>>> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >>>> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >>>> the internals). >>>> >>>> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, >>>> what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >>>> >>>> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >>>> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >>>> 3 >>>> 4 >>>> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands >>>> generators and how to write one >>>> 6 - >>>> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at >>>> least concept of how to write one >>>> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how >>>> to write one >>>> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >>>> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> Glen >>>> -- >>>> >>>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does >>>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury >>>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." >>>> >>>> --Henry David Thoreau >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> >> > > > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his > master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, > unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bryceverdier at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 21:00:20 2013 From: bryceverdier at gmail.com (Bryce Verdier) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 12:00:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516EF144.8060107@gmail.com> I liked Dan's list. I would also like to append: The operator module: http://docs.python.org/2/library/operator.html CSV module can parse a file or sting by other delimiters besides ",". On 04/17/2013 11:45 AM, Dan Roberts wrote: > > I feel like this scale compresses the entire range of what I would > consider "effective Python developer" into 8 and 9. I think 8 should > become 5 or 6. I'm not sure what other concepts to test in the range > would be though. > > Other important competencies and factoids in no particular order are: > > * Know what PEP8 says, especially when not to use PEP8 > * Being able to recite the Zen of Python while standing on your head > * Exception handling > * Understanding lexical closures in Python > * Able to resist the temptation of deeply nested list comprehensions :-) > * itertools > * Possibly functools > * Context Managers (concept and implementation) > * Knows setuptools and distribute > * Published on PyPi > * NumPy, Twisted, Django and/or other common modules used in real > world projects are good indicators of "have shipped something". > > Dumping a bunch of thoughts might not be that useful to the > discussion, but here it is anyways! > > Cheers, > Dan > > On Apr 17, 2013 10:30 AM, "Glen Jarvis" > wrote: > > Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has > done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart > for Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. > > For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a > 7 below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone > else judges as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating > myself between an 8 and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing > decorators; yep on concept; nope on really writing meta classes; > yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of the internals). > > And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, > what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? > > 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" > 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. > 3 > 4 > 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; > Understands generators and how to write one > 6 - > 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has > at least concept of how to write one > 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and > how to write one > 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library > 10 - Guido; Core contributor > > > Cheers, > > > Glen > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog > does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; > gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ndavenport at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 21:04:49 2013 From: ndavenport at gmail.com (Neil Davenport) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 05:04:49 +1000 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: Hi Geoff, I'm in Sausalito and would also be interested in any groups up this way. I'm flying back home to Australia for about a month but would be keen when I get back. There are two options that I can think of if there isn't currently a group up here: 1. Carpool etc to the SF Python Meetup 2. Meetup informally in the area and try to entice some speakers to come over the bridge. I'm happy to donate my living room while the meetings are small. I'll even throw in some beer to bribe speakers and others to make the trip! If you can think of anywhere else that's suitable, I'd be happy to travel. If either of those options piques your interest (or anyone else's) feel free to reply on or off list. Kind regards, Neil On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Geoff Cirullo wrote: > Hi, > I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding any > North Bay groups? > Thank You, > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jjkunce at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 22:46:21 2013 From: jjkunce at gmail.com (Jeff Kunce) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:46:21 -0400 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <516EF144.8060107@gmail.com> References: <516EF144.8060107@gmail.com> Message-ID: I think this is a worthy exercise, and contributors to this list have come up with some great ideas. But I want to offer some caveats. 1. The order may not be the same in all environments. Some of the features of the language are more important for some types of programs than for others. The "coding culture" and the age of legacy code maintained can also play a factor. or example, I didn't see lambda functions on anyone's list - they might not be relevant to anyone so far, but they could be crucial in some shops. 2. The skills may not be as "ordered" as you think. I remember some attendees at an early Python conference asking Guido for his opinion on how to code something. He answered that he wasn't a good person to ask, because he didn't program in Python that much - he spent most of his time developing Python internals in C. 3. I know you are rating python-specific skills, but, in this day, the more important questions often pertain to an applicants knowledge of specific libraries and frameworks. And, please, use this chart as a guide for knowledgeable developer-interviewers. I really hate it when a list like this gets into the hands of an HR person who doesn't understand the concepts behind the terms. -- Jeff On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 3:00 PM, Bryce Verdier wrote: > I liked Dan's list. I would also like to append: > > The operator module: http://docs.python.org/2/library/operator.html > CSV module can parse a file or sting by other delimiters besides ",". > > > > On 04/17/2013 11:45 AM, Dan Roberts wrote: > > I feel like this scale compresses the entire range of what I would > consider "effective Python developer" into 8 and 9. I think 8 should become > 5 or 6. I'm not sure what other concepts to test in the range would be > though. > > Other important competencies and factoids in no particular order are: > > * Know what PEP8 says, especially when not to use PEP8 > * Being able to recite the Zen of Python while standing on your head > * Exception handling > * Understanding lexical closures in Python > * Able to resist the temptation of deeply nested list comprehensions :-) > * itertools > * Possibly functools > * Context Managers (concept and implementation) > * Knows setuptools and distribute > * Published on PyPi > * NumPy, Twisted, Django and/or other common modules used in real world > projects are good indicators of "have shipped something". > > Dumping a bunch of thoughts might not be that useful to the discussion, > but here it is anyways! > > Cheers, > Dan > On Apr 17, 2013 10:30 AM, "Glen Jarvis" wrote: > >> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has done >> this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for Python. It >> can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >> >> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >> the internals). >> >> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, >> what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >> >> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >> 3 >> 4 >> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; Understands >> generators and how to write one >> 6 - >> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least >> concept of how to write one >> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to >> write one >> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Glen >> -- >> >> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his >> master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, >> unearth it, and gnaw it still." >> >> --Henry David Thoreau >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing listBaypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aahz at pythoncraft.com Wed Apr 17 22:50:27 2013 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:50:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130417205027.GA1742@panix.com> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013, J. R. Carroll wrote: > > Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this > listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is > huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this > development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a > group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of > KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF > would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a > number of python forums that support job networking... There has historically been strong opposition in the Python community to anything that smacks of certification (the opposition mostly comes from seeing the ugly mess that certification often/usually leads to). So that's something to be aware of and possibly careful about. On the other hand, the Python community has also historically been very positive in encouraging various approaches to learning and training. So presenting this as a learning/training mechanism would likely get better traction. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." --Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut From ryan at ryanhiebert.com Wed Apr 17 22:52:07 2013 From: ryan at ryanhiebert.com (Ryan Hiebert) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:52:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: I'm near St. Helena, and if we can get something in the north bay, I'd come. On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Neil Davenport wrote: > Hi Geoff, > > I'm in Sausalito and would also be interested in any groups up this way. I'm flying back home to Australia for about a month but > would be keen when I get back. > > There are two options that I can think of if there isn't currently a group up here: > Carpool etc to the SF Python Meetup > Meetup informally in the area and try to entice some speakers to come over the bridge. I'm happy to donate my living room while the meetings are small. I'll even throw in some beer to bribe speakers and others to make the trip! If you can think of anywhere else that's suitable, I'd be happy to travel. > If either of those options piques your interest (or anyone else's) feel free to reply on or off list. > > Kind regards, > Neil > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Geoff Cirullo wrote: > Hi, > I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding any North Bay groups? > Thank You, > Geoff > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 17 22:53:30 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:53:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Great stuff!!! Also, this bumps me down to "where I know I belong." I'm now a 7.5ish -- not an 8.5ish. And, that's more realistic. I think everyone wants to be in the "10 category" just because it's the highest. But, if we don't make room for such things, we'll not have anywhere to grow. I will be consolidating more and be using this as a personal rating scale -- and also, as a somewhat objective way to judge the skill-set for new developers. And, frankly, how much simpler would it be to give a list like this to a recruiter, company and or developer. A developer won't be able to fake being in a higher category than he is. A company is generally pretty flexible in their role (i.e., we'll take a 4/5 for our junior position; a 6 for our regular positions; but the higher the better). 90% of the mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). I love it. Keep it coming :) Cheers, Glen On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Jake Alheid wrote: > > 1. Knows how to install and write "Hello World" > 2. Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. > 3. Understands basic classes and when to use them vs. a > function/module of functions > 4. Understands list/dict/set comprehensions and why they're useful; > Exception handling and raising; Understands how to use pip/virtualenvs > 5. Knows basic decorator usage and how to write them; how to use/write > docstrings; understands dynamic lookups (getattr()); how to introspect > objects in the interpreter with dir(), help(), etc.; how to write/run > tests; Understands why to use virtualenvs > 6. Understands magic methods (__getattr__, __setattr__), class > methods, static methods, protected (._foo) vs. private (.__foo) members; > knows how to write/use generators; knows basic speedups (when to use > .join() vs 'str' + 'foo') > 7. Understands how to create and distribute a pacakge with setup.py; > Understands concurrency in Python and how to implement threading/green > threads/callbacks; knows how the GIL affects different concurrency models; > has a strong understanding of when to use different design patterns in > Python; has a strong organizational understanding of large python projects > 8. Understands Meta classes and how to use/write them; understands > that everything in Python is a dict; knows order of lookups for variables, > class members; knows how to monkeypatch models, instances, sys.modules, > .__dict__, etc., and why not to do it; how to use inspect module; Can > read/modify C extensions; > 9. Understands Python internals (dir, ast, compile modules, ); Can > write new C extensions from scratch > 10. Guido; Core contributor > > I'm sure there's a lot more that I'm forgetting. So much Python! > > -- > Jake Alheid > http://about.me/jake > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > >> This feedback has been invaluable. I encourage this thread to continue. >> I'm sitting behind the scenes and synthesizing all of this into a >> consistent/uniform document. When finished, I'll happily share. >> >> I've not yet seen a conflict between the different perspectives. >> >> Cheers, >> >> >> Glen >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM, J. R. Carroll < >> jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net> wrote: >> >>> I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known >>> as psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which >>> includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements >>> blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these >>> requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that >>> others can then use for hiring decisions or ... >>> >>> Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this >>> listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is >>> huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this >>> development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a >>> group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of >>> KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF >>> would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a >>> number of python forums that support job networking... >>> >>> If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then >>> again, it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... >>> but, fun to consider nonetheless! >>> >>> -J >>> >>> >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> J. R. Carroll >>> Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs >>> Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics >>> www.jrcresearch.net >>> www.ontvp.com >>> Cell: (650) 776-6613 >>> Email: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net >>> jrcarroll at hurtzlab.com >>> jrc.csus at gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz < >>> rbalfanz at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: >>>> http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has >>>>> done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for >>>>> Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >>>>> >>>>> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >>>>> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >>>>> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >>>>> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >>>>> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >>>>> the internals). >>>>> >>>>> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, >>>>> what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >>>>> >>>>> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >>>>> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >>>>> 3 >>>>> 4 >>>>> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; >>>>> Understands generators and how to write one >>>>> 6 - >>>>> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at >>>>> least concept of how to write one >>>>> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how >>>>> to write one >>>>> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >>>>> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Glen >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does >>>>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury >>>>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." >>>>> >>>>> --Henry David Thoreau >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his >> master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, >> unearth it, and gnaw it still." >> >> --Henry David Thoreau >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > > -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simeonf at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 22:56:22 2013 From: simeonf at gmail.com (Simeon Franklin) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 13:56:22 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: If you can get a crowd together and a place (I recommend paying a little cash for a meetup.com account) I'll support you by coming and talking at your convenience*. I'm an instructor and regularly present so I've got talks on Django, Python language features etc. Mostly beginner and intermediate level talks but a couple advanced presentations as well. Feel free to email me off list. -regards Simeon Franklin * beer gratefully accepted :) On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ryan Hiebert wrote: > I'm near St. Helena, and if we can get something in the north bay, I'd come. > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Neil Davenport wrote: > > Hi Geoff, > > I'm in Sausalito and would also be interested in any groups up this way. > I'm flying back home to Australia for about a month but > would be keen when I get back. > > There are two options that I can think of if there isn't currently a group > up here: > > Carpool etc to the SF Python Meetup > Meetup informally in the area and try to entice some speakers to come over > the bridge. I'm happy to donate my living room while the meetings are > small. I'll even throw in some beer to bribe speakers and others to make the > trip! If you can think of anywhere else that's suitable, I'd be happy to > travel. > > If either of those options piques your interest (or anyone else's) feel free > to reply on or off list. > > Kind regards, > Neil > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Geoff Cirullo wrote: >> >> Hi, >> I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding any >> North Bay groups? >> Thank You, >> Geoff >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From shakefu at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 23:09:16 2013 From: shakefu at gmail.com (Jake Alheid) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:09:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was just looking at my suggested list, and honestly 1-4 should probably just be "1" with the other items spread out more... I wouldn't consider hiring anyone as a "Python" developer if they didn't have 1-4 already, and some of 5. Likewise, 9 and 10 should probably just be 10. If you're so close to the python internals that you can effectively work with bytecode or ASTs and write C extensions, you could probably be a core developer if you chose. Though, if someone's a developer in other language and has very limited exposure to Python, 1-4 might be relevant. But any professional developer should be able to pick up 1-4 (or their equivalents) super fast for any language (not just Python). Someone mentioned lambdas and closures. +1 for that. I'd put a good understanding of functional programming features in Python in the 6-7 range. Also +1 for whoever mentioned that the order isn't fixed. Some stuff (like concurrency or socket programming) you may never have to touch. Other stuff, like understanding basic classes -> class/static methods & private/protected -> dynamic getattr()/setattr() -> magic methods -> metaclasses -> attribute resolution order is a pretty normal flow. -- Jake Alheid http://about.me/jake On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > Great stuff!!! > > Also, this bumps me down to "where I know I belong." I'm now a 7.5ish -- > not an 8.5ish. And, that's more realistic. I think everyone wants to be in > the "10 category" just because it's the highest. But, if we don't make room > for such things, we'll not have anywhere to grow. > > I will be consolidating more and be using this as a personal rating scale > -- and also, as a somewhat objective way to judge the skill-set for new > developers. > > And, frankly, how much simpler would it be to give a list like this to a > recruiter, company and or developer. A developer won't be able to fake > being in a higher category than he is. A company is generally pretty > flexible in their role (i.e., we'll take a 4/5 for our junior position; a 6 > for our regular positions; but the higher the better). 90% of the > mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale > out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). > > I love it. Keep it coming :) > > Cheers, > > > Glen > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Jake Alheid wrote: > >> >> 1. Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >> 2. Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >> 3. Understands basic classes and when to use them vs. a >> function/module of functions >> 4. Understands list/dict/set comprehensions and why they're useful; >> Exception handling and raising; Understands how to use pip/virtualenvs >> 5. Knows basic decorator usage and how to write them; how to >> use/write docstrings; understands dynamic lookups (getattr()); how to >> introspect objects in the interpreter with dir(), help(), etc.; how to >> write/run tests; Understands why to use virtualenvs >> 6. Understands magic methods (__getattr__, __setattr__), class >> methods, static methods, protected (._foo) vs. private (.__foo) members; >> knows how to write/use generators; knows basic speedups (when to use >> .join() vs 'str' + 'foo') >> 7. Understands how to create and distribute a pacakge with setup.py; >> Understands concurrency in Python and how to implement threading/green >> threads/callbacks; knows how the GIL affects different concurrency models; >> has a strong understanding of when to use different design patterns in >> Python; has a strong organizational understanding of large python projects >> 8. Understands Meta classes and how to use/write them; understands >> that everything in Python is a dict; knows order of lookups for variables, >> class members; knows how to monkeypatch models, instances, sys.modules, >> .__dict__, etc., and why not to do it; how to use inspect module; Can >> read/modify C extensions; >> 9. Understands Python internals (dir, ast, compile modules, ); Can >> write new C extensions from scratch >> 10. Guido; Core contributor >> >> I'm sure there's a lot more that I'm forgetting. So much Python! >> >> -- >> Jake Alheid >> http://about.me/jake >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> >>> This feedback has been invaluable. I encourage this thread to continue. >>> I'm sitting behind the scenes and synthesizing all of this into a >>> consistent/uniform document. When finished, I'll happily share. >>> >>> I've not yet seen a conflict between the different perspectives. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> >>> Glen >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:54 AM, J. R. Carroll < >>> jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know of any python scales per-se, but I have done what is known >>>> as psychometric work (as a psychometrician) for nearly a decade (which >>>> includes conducting job/task analyses, construction of a requirements >>>> blueprint (test blue print), and then systematically outlining these >>>> requirements into testable/observable/quantitative 'bullet points' that >>>> others can then use for hiring decisions or ... >>>> >>>> Where am I going with this is that we have TONS of experience on this >>>> listserv (and I'm currently living in Boston and the Boston python group is >>>> huge as well) - I'd advocate about taking a more formal process in this >>>> development by leveraging all of our skills and designing something as a >>>> group/python-cult. If there is interests in putting together a list of >>>> KSAO's (knowledge skills abilities, and 'other') Im wondering if the PSF >>>> would be interested in somehow using it as well - seeing as there are a >>>> number of python forums that support job networking... >>>> >>>> If there is sufficient interest, I'd love to help/volunteer. Then >>>> again, it might be overkill for what you (and others) are thinking about... >>>> but, fun to consider nonetheless! >>>> >>>> -J >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> >>>> >>>> J. R. Carroll >>>> Independent Researcher through Hurtz Labs >>>> Research Methods, Test Development, and Statistics >>>> www.jrcresearch.net >>>> www.ontvp.com >>>> Cell: (650) 776-6613 >>>> Email: jrcarroll at jrcresearch.net >>>> jrcarroll at hurtzlab.com >>>> jrc.csus at gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Ryan Matthew Balfanz < >>>> rbalfanz at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The only ordered skill chart that comes to mind is: >>>>> http://www.unicyclist.org/cont/levels.cfm :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Any time I find myself making something up, I think "Who else has >>>>>> done this?" Does anyone else know of a standardized skill chart for >>>>>> Python. It can be useful to explain someone's skill set. >>>>>> >>>>>> For example, I just interviewed someone that would fall in about a 7 >>>>>> below. But, what one person judges as a 7 is not what someone else judges >>>>>> as a 7. For what it's wroth, I personally am rating myself between an 8 >>>>>> and a 9 on this scale... (yep on writing decorators; yep on concept; nope >>>>>> on really writing meta classes; yep on 'dis' library but nope on many of >>>>>> the internals). >>>>>> >>>>>> And, frankly, that's probably a tad high (for me at least)... So, >>>>>> what's a better rating scale? Has anyone seen such a thing? >>>>>> >>>>>> 1 - Knows how to install and write "Hello World" >>>>>> 2 - Understands basic data structures: list, dict, tuple, set, etc. >>>>>> 3 >>>>>> 4 >>>>>> 5 - Understands list comprehensions and why they're useful; >>>>>> Understands generators and how to write one >>>>>> 6 - >>>>>> 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at >>>>>> least concept of how to write one >>>>>> 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and >>>>>> how to write one >>>>>> 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library >>>>>> 10 - Guido; Core contributor >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Glen >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does >>>>>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury >>>>>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." >>>>>> >>>>>> --Henry David Thoreau >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Baypiggies mailing list >>>>> Baypiggies at python.org >>>>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does >>> his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury >>> it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." >>> >>> --Henry David Thoreau >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >>> >> >> > > > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his > master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, > unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaleh at speakeasy.net Wed Apr 17 23:11:14 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:11:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> On Apr 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > And, frankly, how much simpler would it be to give a list like this to a recruiter, company and or developer. A developer won't be able to fake being in a higher category than he is. A company is generally pretty flexible in their role (i.e., we'll take a 4/5 for our junior position; a 6 for our regular positions; but the higher the better). 90% of the mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). > You are either naive or used to WAY better recruiters than I am. For instance my LinkedIn profile says "Specialties: Getting things done. As long as it isn't with Java." I get at least a recruiter a week wanting to talk about a job involving Java because they saw the word "Java" on my page. From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 23:13:18 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:13:18 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies meetings at LinkedIn Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I've been in communication with our contact at LinkedIn, and have suggested that she distribute our meeting dates/times with internal software people so that they can attend and participate in the future meetings. Apparently, there is a group of Python users there and they are interested in attending Baypiggies meetings. I will be meeting with our contact this Friday to go over some details regarding the meeting location. Unfortunately, April 25th is not available to us at LinkedIn, since our contact will be on vacation that week. I think this is a small price to pay for an opportunity to be hosted by LinkedIn as well as have opportunities to meet with developers and hear about LinkedIn projects. If there are no objections, I'll advocate for our typical 4th Thursday of the month starting in May - subject to LinkedIn's availability and policies. Thanks for your attention and patience Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.berthelot at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 23:28:39 2013 From: david.berthelot at gmail.com (David Berthelot) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:28:39 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: Often the concepts like decorators take 5 minutes to understand to someone smart, modules API documentation can be looked up in seconds. So my approach to interview has been more focused on 'can you get things done' than on syntax or language specifics. To interview people, I've used a website that I developed for this purpose: http://hirebooth.com In my previous company, I lead a team and none of them programmed python before. Yet they picked it up in no time, pep8, decorators, iterators, etc... I just give people pointers, if they are smart they pick things up almost instantly. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:11 PM, Sean Perry wrote: > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 1:53 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > > > And, frankly, how much simpler would it be to give a list like this to a > recruiter, company and or developer. A developer won't be able to fake > being in a higher category than he is. A company is generally pretty > flexible in their role (i.e., we'll take a 4/5 for our junior position; a 6 > for our regular positions; but the higher the better). 90% of the > mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale > out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). > > > > You are either naive or used to WAY better recruiters than I am. For > instance my LinkedIn profile says "Specialties: Getting things done. As > long as it isn't with Java." I get at least a recruiter a week wanting to > talk about a job involving Java because they saw the word "Java" on my page. > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p at ulmcnett.com Wed Apr 17 23:14:25 2013 From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:14:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> On 4/17/13 1:53 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > 90% of the mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale > out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). I was told by a hiring manager in Silicon Valley recently that I (probably in the mid- to high-7's on this loose scale we are talking about) was the only person out of dozens presented by recruiters as "experienced python developers" that could even write a basic class definition. He doesn't want to even talk to the recruiters that presented these candidates again, but he feels like he has to given how hard it apparently is currently to find people that know how to do real stuff with Python. He could probably use such a list to do a 5-minute phone screening himself, but I don't see this working very well if administered by HR or outside recruiters that don't themselves have Python knowledge. I could see it as a self-evaluation part of the screening, where the candidate places themself and then the hiring manager can start there with specific phone screening questions based on that self-evaluated level. Paul From shaleh at speakeasy.net Wed Apr 17 23:43:38 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:43:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:28 PM, David Berthelot wrote: > Often the concepts like decorators take 5 minutes to understand to someone smart, modules API documentation can be looked up in seconds. So my approach to interview has been more focused on 'can you get things done' than on syntax or language specifics. > I largely agree with this but..... I have encountered a LOT of coders who code like they are using C in whatever language they are given. Think lots of explicit for loops and avoiding classes along with not designing for unit tests. They pick up Python the language without a problem. But they never write idiomatic Python. I ask about "deeper" language features because I am curious if the person has taken the time to learn about the language or if they looked at the quick start list because they had to use Python for the task at hand. They get kudos for being agnostic enough to consider another language but I find the quality of the code is better when I look for people who actually want to use the language and like it. From shaleh at speakeasy.net Wed Apr 17 23:50:12 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:50:12 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> References: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> Message-ID: <2E18978B-09E8-40BE-825F-F6752698E9C6@speakeasy.net> On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:14 PM, Paul McNett wrote: > On 4/17/13 1:53 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: >> 90% of the mismatches from recruiters could be cut down if we just handed this scale >> out and asked to self evaluate. (Or, I'm being naive?). > > I was told by a hiring manager in Silicon Valley recently that I (probably in the > mid- to high-7's on this loose scale we are talking about) was the only person out of > dozens presented by recruiters as "experienced python developers" that could even > write a basic class definition. > > He doesn't want to even talk to the recruiters that presented these candidates again, > but he feels like he has to given how hard it apparently is currently to find people > that know how to do real stuff with Python. > > He could probably use such a list to do a 5-minute phone screening himself, but I > don't see this working very well if administered by HR or outside recruiters that > don't themselves have Python knowledge. > > I could see it as a self-evaluation part of the screening, where the candidate places > themself and then the hiring manager can start there with specific phone screening > questions based on that self-evaluated level. > That matches my experience. I found people who "knew Python" but simple questions like "what makes a Python module" or "list the common data structures" would stump them. I had a candidate submit code that was correct and worked but horrific to consider. They took the working code and pasted it into another file so they could run tests against it. Part of the issue comes from seeking people at the "Principle Software Developer" level. Most of them I have seen tend to be well versed in C++ or Java but have largely given lip service to Python. Many still carry the "scripting languages are not for real work" idea that was common 10+ years ago. From david.berthelot at gmail.com Wed Apr 17 23:50:49 2013 From: david.berthelot at gmail.com (David Berthelot) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 14:50:49 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: I agree with you Sean, in my context (a silicon valley based fast growing startup), we had a hard time to find developers alone, competent developers were even harder to find, and finding competent python developers was a lot harder. Since we were growing fast and needed to hire multiple people in a short span of time, we needed to find the next best thing to a smart python coder, which was a smart coder in our case. On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Sean Perry wrote: > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:28 PM, David Berthelot wrote: > > > Often the concepts like decorators take 5 minutes to understand to > someone smart, modules API documentation can be looked up in seconds. So my > approach to interview has been more focused on 'can you get things done' > than on syntax or language specifics. > > > > I largely agree with this but..... I have encountered a LOT of coders who > code like they are using C in whatever language they are given. Think lots > of explicit for loops and avoiding classes along with not designing for > unit tests. They pick up Python the language without a problem. But they > never write idiomatic Python. I ask about "deeper" language features > because I am curious if the person has taken the time to learn about the > language or if they looked at the quick start list because they had to use > Python for the task at hand. They get kudos for being agnostic enough to > consider another language but I find the quality of the code is better when > I look for people who actually want to use the language and like it. > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaleh at speakeasy.net Thu Apr 18 00:01:15 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:01:15 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> That is the most frustrating part of Silicon Valley life. There are lots of people looking for work and lots of work looking for people. But for some reason one rarely finds the other. I have had to choose the candidate that was OK because we never found a good one. I have been hired into a job to find out they had been looking for months. LinkedIn, Dice, Monster, etc. none of it seems to really help. On Apr 17, 2013, at 2:50 PM, David Berthelot wrote: > I agree with you Sean, in my context (a silicon valley based fast growing startup), we had a hard time to find developers alone, competent developers were even harder to find, and finding competent python developers was a lot harder. Since we were growing fast and needed to hire multiple people in a short span of time, we needed to find the next best thing to a smart python coder, which was a smart coder in our case. > > From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Apr 18 00:08:49 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:08:49 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> References: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> Message-ID: > He could probably use such a list to do a 5-minute phone screening > himself, but I > don't see this working very well if administered by HR or outside > recruiters that > don't themselves have Python knowledge. > What if it were "self-evaluation?" The Python programmer self-selects against the list. The idea is that anyone who would dishonestly systematically shift themselves to a higher number would be "found out" in the real tech screening. It also helps get the tech screening off on the right foot (so we can focus on concepts around that number and not ask the list comprehension questions to start with). I find the biggest impediment is that most (although not all) recruiters simply want to find as many "bodies" as possible -- slinging resumes. So, they generally dislike a tool that would tell them that a candidate that they found doesn't fit a position (even though that's exactly what will eventually come out of the process). Recruiters would have to really trust the self-selection process. Cheers, Glen -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bitsink at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 00:43:48 2013 From: bitsink at gmail.com (Nam Nguyen) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:43:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: <516F10B1.7010608@ulmcnett.com> Message-ID: +1 to the self assessment list. If it comes with potential classification/grouping of similar/closely related knowledge into "groups". Kind of like how PyCon organized talks to tracks. Level has the connotation that a person must pass the lower level to advance to the higher one. Which is wrong most of the times, especially in programming. Is it harder to do OS level stuff, or is it harder to do web stuff? Is knowing about ctypes a more advanced knowledge than telnetlib? Nam On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > > He could probably use such a list to do a 5-minute phone screening >> himself, but I >> don't see this working very well if administered by HR or outside >> recruiters that >> don't themselves have Python knowledge. >> > > What if it were "self-evaluation?" The Python programmer self-selects > against the list. The idea is that anyone who would dishonestly > systematically shift themselves to a higher number would be "found out" in > the real tech screening. It also helps get the tech screening off on the > right foot (so we can focus on concepts around that number and not ask the > list comprehension questions to start with). > > I find the biggest impediment is that most (although not > all) recruiters simply want to find as many "bodies" as possible -- > slinging resumes. So, they generally dislike a tool that would tell them > that a candidate that they found doesn't fit a position (even though that's > exactly what will eventually come out of the process). Recruiters would > have to really trust the self-selection process. > > Cheers, > > > Glen > -- > > "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his > master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, > unearth it, and gnaw it still." > > --Henry David Thoreau > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Apr 18 00:45:09 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 15:45:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 3:01 PM, Sean Perry wrote: > That is the most frustrating part of Silicon Valley life. There are lots > of people looking for work and lots of work looking for people. But for > some reason one rarely finds the other. I have had to choose the candidate > that was OK because we never found a good one. I have been hired into a job > to find out they had been looking for months. LinkedIn, Dice, Monster, etc. > none of it seems to really help. > And, the flip side is true. We may take a job thinking we found the "perfect job." But, quite often, there is such a fly in the ointment. For example, I was hired to code. I hadn't coded now today. I've filled out incredibly tedious paper work for . And, I woke up at 7 am to do a skype interview with someone who was supposed to be the best thing since chopped bread and he didn't quite understand why a generator is useful... That's why I'm trying to fix this problem with a tool the recruiters (internal or external) can use :) Cheers, Glen -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janssen at parc.com Thu Apr 18 01:39:38 2013 From: janssen at parc.com (Bill Janssen) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:39:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <35420.1366241978@parc.com> Glen Jarvis wrote: > I hadn't coded now today. I've filled out > incredibly tedious paper work for . You mean there's paper work that isn't incredibly tedious?! Bill From max at slimmersoft.com Thu Apr 18 01:46:23 2013 From: max at slimmersoft.com (Max Slimmer) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 16:46:23 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group Message-ID: I live in Sebastopol and would be interested too. Sounds like we should organize when and where to get together. I have created a google group we can use: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/northbay-python -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shaleh at speakeasy.net Thu Apr 18 02:12:44 2013 From: shaleh at speakeasy.net (Sean Perry) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:12:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <35420.1366241978@parc.com> References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> <35420.1366241978@parc.com> Message-ID: On Apr 17, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: > Glen Jarvis wrote: > >> I hadn't coded now today. I've filled out >> incredibly tedious paper work for . > > You mean there's paper work that isn't incredibly tedious?! > > Bill What was the number in the news, something like 20% of Americans liked filling out their taxes. From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Apr 18 02:36:20 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 17:36:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: <35420.1366241978@parc.com> References: <2C3A507E-FBAF-40A8-AB82-EFC7E9D924C8@speakeasy.net> <48BE5960-5A3A-4E99-9A1C-BBFF5D9B6EE2@speakeasy.net> <35420.1366241978@parc.com> Message-ID: > You mean there's paper work that isn't incredibly tedious?! I like most paperwork as sad as that is. I even like taxes (I wrote my own accounting program to learn accounting and I use it to give to tax professionals). But, sadly, today's was a gazillion page document about TPS reports -- a TPS report for your TPS reports. It was given to me at 4:15 am and was a crisis to complete. And, I don't think they'll like some if the very professional but very honest answers where reality doesn't match the reality distortion field. I still hadn't coded today.... G From glen at glenjarvis.com Thu Apr 18 03:14:39 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 18:14:39 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> Message-ID: <3629306E-8E13-4EF0-8C97-4669086B712C@glenjarvis.com> I'll even sponsor the MeetUp for you for free (I have a MeetUp account). If it takes off, we can transfer it to you. You'll still be co-organizer (I'll also be co-organizer but won't be doing any work except for paying the account -- which I'm doing already). In a few months it may grow into its own thing and you may decide its worth paying the $20/month on your own. Cheers, Glen On Apr 17, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > If you can get a crowd together and a place (I recommend paying a > little cash for a meetup.com account) I'll support you by coming and > talking at your convenience*. I'm an instructor and regularly present > so I've got talks on Django, Python language features etc. Mostly > beginner and intermediate level talks but a couple advanced > presentations as well. Feel free to email me off list. > > -regards > Simeon Franklin > > * beer gratefully accepted :) > > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ryan Hiebert wrote: >> I'm near St. Helena, and if we can get something in the north bay, I'd come. >> >> On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Neil Davenport wrote: >> >> Hi Geoff, >> >> I'm in Sausalito and would also be interested in any groups up this way. >> I'm flying back home to Australia for about a month but >> would be keen when I get back. >> >> There are two options that I can think of if there isn't currently a group >> up here: >> >> Carpool etc to the SF Python Meetup >> Meetup informally in the area and try to entice some speakers to come over >> the bridge. I'm happy to donate my living room while the meetings are >> small. I'll even throw in some beer to bribe speakers and others to make the >> trip! If you can think of anywhere else that's suitable, I'd be happy to >> travel. >> >> If either of those options piques your interest (or anyone else's) feel free >> to reply on or off list. >> >> Kind regards, >> Neil >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Geoff Cirullo wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding any >>> North Bay groups? >>> Thank You, >>> Geoff >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Baypiggies mailing list >>> Baypiggies at python.org >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From ndavenport at gmail.com Thu Apr 18 04:31:52 2013 From: ndavenport at gmail.com (Neil Davenport) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 12:31:52 +1000 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: <3629306E-8E13-4EF0-8C97-4669086B712C@glenjarvis.com> References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> <3629306E-8E13-4EF0-8C97-4669086B712C@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: Hi to all, It sounds like we have enough interest to go ahead! To summarise we have: - A google group - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/northbay-python - A meetup account (thanks Glen) - A first speaker (thanks Simeon) - A venue (for a small group at least) - And some attendees. I've registered the domains northbay-python.com/net/org and will be hosting a very rudimentary WebApp there in the next few weeks to allow people to propose and vote for upcoming talks. I'm not sure if this duplicates functionality in Meetup.com but it's a Django app that I have lying around so it's pretty easy. I'll put the code on Github so that anyone that wants to improve on it can. I'm sitting at SFO right now so will be out of contact for a while but I wanted to capitalise on the momentum. Kind regards, Neil On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > I'll even sponsor the MeetUp for you for free (I have a MeetUp account). > If it takes off, we can transfer it to you. > > You'll still be co-organizer (I'll also be co-organizer but won't be doing > any work except for paying the account -- which I'm doing already). > > In a few months it may grow into its own thing and you may decide its > worth paying the $20/month on your own. > > Cheers, > > > Glen > > On Apr 17, 2013, at 1:56 PM, Simeon Franklin wrote: > > > If you can get a crowd together and a place (I recommend paying a > > little cash for a meetup.com account) I'll support you by coming and > > talking at your convenience*. I'm an instructor and regularly present > > so I've got talks on Django, Python language features etc. Mostly > > beginner and intermediate level talks but a couple advanced > > presentations as well. Feel free to email me off list. > > > > -regards > > Simeon Franklin > > > > * beer gratefully accepted :) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:52 PM, Ryan Hiebert > wrote: > >> I'm near St. Helena, and if we can get something in the north bay, I'd > come. > >> > >> On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:04 PM, Neil Davenport > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Geoff, > >> > >> I'm in Sausalito and would also be interested in any groups up this way. > >> I'm flying back home to Australia for about a month but > >> would be keen when I get back. > >> > >> There are two options that I can think of if there isn't currently a > group > >> up here: > >> > >> Carpool etc to the SF Python Meetup > >> Meetup informally in the area and try to entice some speakers to come > over > >> the bridge. I'm happy to donate my living room while the meetings are > >> small. I'll even throw in some beer to bribe speakers and others to > make the > >> trip! If you can think of anywhere else that's suitable, I'd be happy > to > >> travel. > >> > >> If either of those options piques your interest (or anyone else's) feel > free > >> to reply on or off list. > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Neil > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:47 AM, Geoff Cirullo > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> I'm in Santa Rosa, could someone provide contact information regarding > any > >>> North Bay groups? > >>> Thank You, > >>> Geoff > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Baypiggies mailing list > >>> Baypiggies at python.org > >>> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Baypiggies mailing list > >> Baypiggies at python.org > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Baypiggies mailing list > >> Baypiggies at python.org > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > _______________________________________________ > > Baypiggies mailing list > > Baypiggies at python.org > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aahz at pythoncraft.com Thu Apr 18 17:27:46 2013 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 08:27:46 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] North Bay Python/Django Group? In-Reply-To: References: <022384C531AD8B4FAE2ED8E759F342E002FBE7D3@challenger.solar.sonoma.edu> <3629306E-8E13-4EF0-8C97-4669086B712C@glenjarvis.com> Message-ID: <20130418152746.GA4609@panix.com> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013, Neil Davenport wrote: > > I'm sitting at SFO right now so will be out of contact for a while but I > wanted to capitalise on the momentum. Good show! Please feel free to continue posting announcements to BayPIGgies (note, not cross-post, cross-posting mailing lists is a Bad Idea.) -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." --Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut From clp302 at poda.net Thu Apr 18 20:14:48 2013 From: clp302 at poda.net (C Poda) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 11:14:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Study group for learning Python via coursera.org Message-ID: Hi, I'm starting the free Python class at coursera.org. It began Monday 4/15 (easy to join, not too late yet), & goes for 9 weeks. They rate it at 7-9 hrs of work/week: Intro to Interactive Programming in Python https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython Please contact me if you are interested in joining a study group, to meet weekly. Location is flexible; I'm near Redwood City. Let me know your preferences regarding location, day of week, and time of day. If you are part of an existing study group looking for a serious and motivated member, let me know. Also, if any experienced developers are interested in offering occasional real-world advice on our issues & code, please let me know. It would be nice to have a local expert available by email or to meet w/ us, perhaps 2-4 times during this course. Thanks. Christopher Poda clp302 -at- poda -dot- net From aahz at pythoncraft.com Fri Apr 19 02:22:19 2013 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 17:22:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Study group for learning Python via coursera.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20130419002219.GA11464@panix.com> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013, C Poda wrote: > > Also, if any experienced developers are interested in offering > occasional real-world advice on our issues & code, please > let me know. It would be nice to have a local expert available > by email or to meet w/ us, perhaps 2-4 times during this course. I'm at least theoretically available. (I was one of the TAs for Coursera last fall, would be interesting to see what they did with my feedback.) I'm in San Carlos and would strongly prefer somewhere mid-peninsula (although of course I'm generally available by e-mail). Note that I've got a long trip without Net access starting mid-May. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." --Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut From meredith at mochipuff.net Fri Apr 19 07:24:19 2013 From: meredith at mochipuff.net (Meredith Prince) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2013 22:24:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Study group for learning Python via coursera.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E0706D1-38A6-47CA-8C5E-3474569E67F1@mochipuff.net> Hi Christopher, Pyladies South Bay has a study group oriented around this same Coursera course. Currently we're meeting on Thursday evenings at a coffee shop in Mountain View, and you are certainly welcome to join us. (We're gender inclusive.) http://www.meetup.com/PyLadiesSF/events/114303242/ Our first meetup was tonight by the way, and had I actually read through all my email today, I would've invited you sooner. We discussed week 0, so you haven't missed much. If Mountain View is not too long of a trek for you, give us a try. --Meredith On Apr 18, 2013, at 11:14 AM, C Poda wrote: > Hi, > > I'm starting the free Python class at coursera.org. > It began Monday 4/15 (easy to join, not too late yet), & goes for > 9 weeks. They rate it at 7-9 hrs of work/week: > > Intro to Interactive Programming in Python > https://www.coursera.org/course/interactivepython > > Please contact me if you are interested in joining a study group, > to meet weekly. Location is flexible; I'm near Redwood City. > Let me know your preferences regarding location, day of week, > and time of day. If you are part of an existing study group > looking for a serious and motivated member, let me know. > > Also, if any experienced developers are interested in offering > occasional real-world advice on our issues & code, please > let me know. It would be nice to have a local expert available > by email or to meet w/ us, perhaps 2-4 times during this course. > > Thanks. > Christopher Poda > > clp302 -at- poda -dot- net > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From motoom at xs4all.nl Fri Apr 19 12:09:27 2013 From: motoom at xs4all.nl (Michiel Overtoom) Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2013 12:09:27 +0200 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Standardized Skill Scoring Chart In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 17, 2013, at 19:29, Glen Jarvis wrote: > 7 - Knows basic decorator usages; Why it's useful (DRY); and has at least concept of how to write one > 8 - Knows how to write decorators; Knows what Meta Classes are and how to write one > 9 - Knows internals of Python such as "dis" library Between 8 and 9, I'd add 'descriptors'. These are used behind the scenes for static/classmethods, properties etc... Interesting post by GvR: http://python-history.blogspot.nl/2010/06/inside-story-on-new-style-classes.html Greetings, -- "If you don't know, the thing to do is not to get scared, but to learn." - Ayn Rand From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 06:09:14 2013 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:09:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Heads up regarding the Baypiggies meetings at LinkedIn Message-ID: Hello Everyone, Monte Davidoff and I met with our contact at LinkedIn last Friday. It looks very positive that we will be able to have our meetings there. Our contact should be replying any day now regarding the 4th Thursday in May, as well as for the remainder of the year. LinkedIn has several rooms available, each room is more than adequate for our group and some are quite large. They have both wired & WiFi connections in all meeting rooms, as well as overhead projectors. Best of all, they don't have a policy which requires an employee to be present for the meetings (as of now), but someone will need to let us in. Our contact is also interested in distributing our meeting notices to people within LinkedIn. Hopefully, this will help to infuse new ideas and input into the group. Regarding new ideas: Monte suggested that we poll the group to ask what topics you would like to see at upcoming presentations. Please reply to the list with your suggestions. Thanks for your cooperation and patience during this transition. Tony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From elise.scher01 at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 13:01:24 2013 From: elise.scher01 at gmail.com (Elise Scher) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 04:01:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Baypiggies Digest, Vol 90, Issue 24 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Tony, LinkedIn where? Mountain View? Thanks, Elise L. Scher On 4/23/13, baypiggies-request at python.org wrote: > Send Baypiggies mailing list submissions to > baypiggies at python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > baypiggies-request at python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > baypiggies-owner at python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Baypiggies digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Heads up regarding the Baypiggies meetings at LinkedIn > (Tony Cappellini) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2013 21:09:14 -0700 > From: Tony Cappellini > To: Baypiggies > Subject: [Baypiggies] Heads up regarding the Baypiggies meetings at > LinkedIn > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Everyone, > > > Monte Davidoff and I met with our contact at LinkedIn last Friday. > It looks very positive that we will be able to have our meetings there. Our > contact should be replying any day now regarding > the 4th Thursday in May, as well as for the remainder of the year. > > LinkedIn has several rooms available, each room is more than adequate for > our group and some are quite large. > They have both wired & WiFi connections in all meeting rooms, as well as > overhead projectors. > > Best of all, they don't have a policy which requires an employee to be > present for the meetings (as of now), but someone will need to let us in. > > Our contact is also interested in distributing our meeting notices to > people within LinkedIn. Hopefully, this will help to infuse new ideas > and input into the group. > > Regarding new ideas: Monte suggested that we poll the group to ask what > topics you would like to see at upcoming presentations. > Please reply to the list with your suggestions. > > > Thanks for your cooperation and patience during this transition. > > > Tony > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > ------------------------------ > > End of Baypiggies Digest, Vol 90, Issue 24 > ****************************************** > From rbalfanz at gmail.com Tue Apr 23 22:55:57 2013 From: rbalfanz at gmail.com (Ryan Matthew Balfanz) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:55:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Web Developer Wanted for MindSnacks Message-ID: Hello, MindSnacks is looking for a contractor for some website work. If you, or someone you know, might be interested please let me know! Although we're an educational mobile gaming company, there's a strong Python presence internally. Company Info: - http://www.mindsnacks.com/ - https://twitter.com/MindSnacks - http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/02/mindsnacks-series-a/ (MindSnacks Nabs $6.5M From Sequoia To Bring Fun Educational Games To Your Mobile Device) - http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/19/with-5m-downloads-to-date-mindsnacks-brings-its-addictive-educational-games-to-the-ipad/(With 5M Downloads To Date, MindSnacks Brings Its Addictive Educational Games To The iPad) Thanks, Ryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 24 03:48:16 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 18:48:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Future ideas: A salty ansible Message-ID: In recent BayPIGgies (and MeetUp) talks, we discussed Configuration Management (in passing). Ruby seems to be ruling this space with Chef and Puppet. However, in our meeting we discovered Salt (a Python equivalent). Well, now I just discovered ansible. Salt: http://saltstack.com/community.html PyPI: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ansible/1.1 Docs: http://ansible.cc/docs/ Also, although it is Chef based (Chef Solo), we've recently discussed OpsWorks from Amazon as well. I'd love to see a talk that goes over the concepts of these four (possibly five) products, and makes it easy to digest. There's no way I can give this talk as I am struggling with Chef and Puppet and never really dove into Saltstack or Ansible. However, if different people volunteered to give a 15 min presentation on each of the components (and collaborated on a common intro on concepts), it may make it manageable. I could demo OpsWorks from Amazon and how it can be used to build a Python, Django, gunicorn, nginx environment. Just an idea to throw out there... Any interest? Cheers, Glen -- "Pursue, keep up with, circle round and round your life as a dog does his master's chase. Do what you love. Know your own bone; gnaw at it, bury it, unearth it, and gnaw it still." --Henry David Thoreau -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Apr 24 04:10:43 2013 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:40:43 +0530 Subject: [Baypiggies] Future ideas: A salty ansible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 7:18 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > I could demo OpsWorks from Amazon and how it can be used to build a > Python, Django, gunicorn, nginx environment. > > A quick Q here: how easy/tough is it to provision such a stack using OpsWorks? Regards, Venkat @venkasub -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen at glenjarvis.com Wed Apr 24 04:50:48 2013 From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis) Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 19:50:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Future ideas: A salty ansible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > A quick Q here: how easy/tough is it to provision such a stack using OpsWorks? From an already configured OpsWorks setup (Ruby and unicorn or PHP) -- dead easy! A python | Django | gunicorn | nginx -- harder since those aren't pre built recipes in AWS and you have to write your own (or find someone who did). And, recipes are in ruby .. I've been struggling to make the above stack with custom OpsWorks recipes ... G > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Apr 24 06:28:47 2013 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 09:58:47 +0530 Subject: [Baypiggies] Future ideas: A salty ansible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > > > A quick Q here: how easy/tough is it to provision such a stack using > OpsWorks? > > From an already configured OpsWorks setup (Ruby and unicorn or PHP) -- > dead easy! > > A python | Django | gunicorn | nginx -- harder since those aren't pre > built recipes in AWS and you have to write your own (or find someone who > did). And, recipes are in ruby .. I've been struggling to make the above > stack with custom OpsWorks recipes ... > I expected so. Anywayz, i am working on a complete stack tutorial on a stack like : ubuntu+django+nginx+uwsgi with a good amount of security and monitoring thrown in. This would be non-AWS specific writeup. It was quite interesting when i started searching around a bitas I did not find anything that is comprehensive online on this subject. Venkat @venkasub -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p at ulmcnett.com Wed Apr 24 14:34:07 2013 From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 05:34:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Future ideas: A salty ansible In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5177D13F.2060303@ulmcnett.com> On 4/23/13 6:48 PM, Glen Jarvis wrote: > I'd love to see a talk that goes over the concepts of these four (possibly five) > products, and makes it easy to digest. There's no way I can give this talk as I am > struggling with Chef and Puppet and never really dove into Saltstack or Ansible. > However, if different people volunteered to give a 15 min presentation on each of the > components (and collaborated on a common intro on concepts), it may make it > manageable. I could demo OpsWorks from Amazon and how it can be used to build a > Python, Django, gunicorn, nginx environment. +1 From tony at tcapp.com Thu Apr 25 06:01:21 2013 From: tony at tcapp.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2013 21:01:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Confirmation from LinkedIn for May 23rd Baypiggies meeting Message-ID: Hello Everyone, LinkedIn has just confirmed that we have a room reserved for our May 23rd, 7:30 PM-9PM. The address is 2061 Stierlin Ct, Mtn View, and the room name is "Neon Carrot. Our website will be updated with more info, as soon as it arrives. We will probably start the meeting at 7:45 PM to allow for everyone to find their way to the new location and room. Looking forward to seeing you there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From max at slimmersoft.com Thu Apr 25 18:25:27 2013 From: max at slimmersoft.com (Max Slimmer) Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2013 09:25:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python app not cleaning up in 64bit environment Message-ID: I have an app built with python2.7, py2exe. It uses wx libraries, ADIODBC and much more. When the app is run on a 64bit version of windows it leaves a copy of itself running, as seen in task manager. The only clue I have so far is if I try to re-install and there is one of these instances running it failes to load something in the wx library. Any one else experienced this, any ideas how to go about debuging? thanks, max -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p at ulmcnett.com Fri Apr 26 14:39:48 2013 From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett) Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2013 05:39:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] python app not cleaning up in 64bit environment In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <517A7594.4030900@ulmcnett.com> On 4/25/13 9:25 AM, Max Slimmer wrote: > I have an app built with python2.7, py2exe. It uses wx libraries, ADIODBC and much > more. When the app is run on a 64bit version of windows it leaves a copy of itself > running, as seen in task manager. The only clue I have so far is if I try to > re-install and there is one of these instances running it failes to load something in > the wx library. > > Any one else experienced this, any ideas how to go about debuging? I haven't seen this, but here are some general questions and areas to test: + Do you build with py2exe on a 64-bit Windows system with 64-bit python and wxPython versions? + What version of wx? + What version of py2exe? + Can you try building with cx_freeze or PyInstaller instead (py2exe, last I researched, seemed to have stalled out and I had other problems getting my app working on Vista and Win7) + Can you run your app directly from source on the target 64-bit machine for testing, to eliminate py2exe being the problem? + Can you build a stripped-down that loads and shows a wxFrame and then quits? My hunch is that the wx.App isn't exiting the MainLoop for some reason, but it could very well be for some reason unrelated to wx. All you can do is start pulling on various strings and watching for any change in behavior until you figure out the source of the problem. It's what coffee and loud music is for. Paul