From jeff at drinktomi.com  Fri Feb  1 02:45:24 2008
From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:45:24 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Publicizing PyCon kit available
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90801311148j4da62ed1x5bb4ddca027882e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6523e39a0801301247n50a08340t468f55f9a8380539@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90801311148j4da62ed1x5bb4ddca027882e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9C53834A-30AB-4591-82CE-3396A61E356E@drinktomi.com>

I'm going too.   Who's bringing the coconuts?

- Jeff Younker - jeff at drinktomi.com -



On Jan 31, 2008, at 11:48 AM, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

> Who's going to PyCon, besides me and Guido? ;)

From ken at seehart.com  Fri Feb  1 10:19:26 2008
From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 03:19:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python job
Message-ID: <2114.71.146.165.157.1201857566.squirrel@mail4.webfaction.com>

(If you have already sent me a response/resume, please resend.)


We are looking for one more python engineer at the Internet Chess Club
(www.chessclub.com).

Desired skills (you don't need all of them, but the more the better):
- wxPython and wxWebkit in particular (familiarity with embedded browser
issues)
- Javascript/pyjamas
- HTML
- Play chess (you don't have to be good at it)
- Unit testing (just for your own code, the nose framework is in place)

Work remotely, anywhere.  I'm advertising here because I have some
preference for ability to meet on occasion.

Ken Seehart
Pisces team lead
kenseehart at chessclub.com
(831)479-7684 (home)
(831)535-2442 (cell)


From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Sat Feb  2 00:02:59 2008
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 15:02:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: Publicizing PyCon kit available
Message-ID: <20080201230259.GA24289@panix.com>

Who wants to volunteer to represent BayPIGgies at any PyCon 2010 events?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of     
indirection."  --Butler Lampson

From lhawthorn at google.com  Sat Feb  2 04:15:24 2008
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 14:15:24 +1100
Subject: [Baypiggies] Room Found on the 21st (was: Valentines day
	baypiggies?)
Message-ID: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone,

We've secured the Kiev Conference room (1st Flr, 40) for you on the 21st.
Please plan to do the usual pre-registration on the wiki and to check in at
Building 40 reception.

Cheers,
LH

On Jan 25, 2008 8:02 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com> wrote:

> Aw. I wanted to bring my wife. *<{%{]}}} Well, my son and I will be
> there regardless.
>
> On Jan 24, 2008 12:51 PM, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That would be awesome. Leslie? Could you please?
> >
> >
> > On Jan 24, 2008 12:10 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > > I could do the 21st too. But someone else needs to decide and
> > > negotiate the room allocation with Leslie.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 24, 2008 12:01 PM, Aaron Maxwell <amax at redsymbol.net> wrote:
> > > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 11:37:50 jim stockford wrote:
> > > > >     now that we know guido's giving a talk on py3,
> > > > > maybe there's something to moving the date?
> > > > >     myself i'm in sympathy with _NOT_ letting candy
> > > > > companies push me around (i.e. keep the date),
> > > > > but the politics of romance and family is strong
> > > > > stuff.
> > > > >     opinions?
> > > >
> > > > I'll be there regardless.  But it would allow life to be more
> peaceful if it's
> > > > on some date other than the 14th.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Aaron Maxwell
> > > > http://redsymbol.net
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/<http://www.python.org/%7Eguido/>
> )
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Baypiggies mailing list
> > > Baypiggies at python.org
> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > cordially,
> > Anna
> > --
> > Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
> > Just like everybody else.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Baypiggies mailing list
> > Baypiggies at python.org
> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Edward Cherlin
> End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
> http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080202/da19138b/attachment.htm 

From keith at dartworks.biz  Sat Feb  2 04:45:27 2008
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 03:45:27 +0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] Room Found on the 21st (was: Valentines day
 baypiggies?)
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080202034527.71a55320@dartworks.biz>

Leslie Hawthorn wrote the following on 2008-02-02 at 14:15 PST:
===
> We've secured the Kiev Conference room (1st Flr, 40) for you on the 21st.
> Please plan to do the usual pre-registration on the wiki and to check in at
> Building 40 reception.

===

nice. The "NASA launch control" conference room. There's plenty of desk
space, so you can bring your laptops. ;-)



-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From guido at python.org  Sat Feb  2 05:37:13 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:37:13 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Room Found on the 21st (was: Valentines day
	baypiggies?)
In-Reply-To: <20080202034527.71a55320@dartworks.biz>
References: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080202034527.71a55320@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802012037y54dcd2c0r98bd5b61d1e9b593@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 7:45 PM, Keith Dart ♂ <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
> Leslie Hawthorn wrote the following on 2008-02-02 at 14:15 PST:
> ===
> > We've secured the Kiev Conference room (1st Flr, 40) for you on the 21st.
> > Please plan to do the usual pre-registration on the wiki and to check in at
> > Building 40 reception.
>
> ===
>
> nice. The "NASA launch control" conference room. There's plenty of desk
> space, so you can bring your laptops. ;-)

Also, we were there last month.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From jim at well.com  Sat Feb  2 18:58:37 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 09:58:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Room Found on the 21st (was: Valentines day
	baypiggies?)
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c30228fdbd843e64ef94829b0d51bf6c@well.com>


thank you.

On Feb 1, 2008, at 7:15 PM, Leslie Hawthorn wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> We've secured the Kiev Conference room (1st Flr, 40) for you on the  
> 21st.? Please plan to do the usual pre-registration on the wiki and to  
> check in at Building 40 reception.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>
> On Jan 25, 2008 8:02 AM, Edward Cherlin <echerlin at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> there regardless.
>>
>> On Jan 24, 2008 12:51 PM, Anna Ravenscroft <annaraven at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>  > That would be awesome. Leslie? Could you please?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 24, 2008 12:10 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>> > > I could do the 21st too. But someone else needs to decide and
>>  > > negotiate the room allocation with Leslie.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Jan 24, 2008 12:01 PM, Aaron Maxwell <amax at redsymbol.net>  
>> wrote:
>> > > > On Thursday 24 January 2008 11:37:50 jim stockford wrote:
>>  > > > > ? ? now that we know guido's giving a talk on py3,
>> > > > > maybe there's something to moving the date?
>> > > > > ? ? myself i'm in sympathy with _NOT_ letting candy
>>  > > > > companies push me around (i.e. keep the date),
>> > > > > but the politics of romance and family is strong
>> > > > > stuff.
>> > > > > ? ? opinions?
>> > > >
>>  > > > I'll be there regardless. ?But it would allow life to be more  
>> peaceful if it's
>> > > > on some date other than the 14th.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Aaron Maxwell
>>  > > > http://redsymbol.net
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Baypiggies mailing list
>> > > > Baypiggies at python.org
>>  > > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> > > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>> > > >
>>  > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > --Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
>> > > _______________________________________________
>>  > >
>> > > Baypiggies mailing list
>> > > Baypiggies at python.org
>> > > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>  > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > cordially,
>> > Anna
>> > --
>> > Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
>> > Just like everybody else.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>>  > Baypiggies mailing list
>> > Baypiggies at python.org
>> > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>  >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Edward Cherlin
>> End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
>> http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
>>  "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
>> _______________________________________________
>> Baypiggies mailing list
>> Baypiggies at python.org
>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
>
>
> --  
> Leslie Hawthorn
> Program Manager - Open Source
> Google Inc.
>
> http://code.google.com/opensource/ 
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

From annaraven at gmail.com  Sat Feb  2 19:56:53 2008
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:56:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Room Found on the 21st (was: Valentines day
	baypiggies?)
In-Reply-To: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4869cee70802011915r2b9e1bcdj550c7c82b6d4872d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cb361a610802021056h75b9016ew49634cd1c9109e8@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 1, 2008 7:15 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> We've secured the Kiev Conference room (1st Flr, 40) for you on the 21st.
> Please plan to do the usual pre-registration on the wiki and to check in at
> Building 40 reception.
>
> Cheers,
> LH

You rock!


-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
Just like everybody else.

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sun Feb  3 04:20:54 2008
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 19:20:54 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Grok and Plone
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0802021920o626423c4m49a4582fa7ff5b52@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Has anyone taken a look at http://grok.zope.org ? The actual site is a
Plone site.. but it's a newer web framework and looks really
interesting..

Please keep an eye on Plone.. not only is it growing.. but there is
talk of making it much, much easier to use.. and faster :-) Lots of
talk about WSGI and "Deliverance" which will improve the templating
story for Plone.

I'm participating in the Plone Summit February 8th - 10th (about 50
invited Plonista's getting together to talk about how to make Plone
even better)

Email me offlist and let me know if you have anything you'd like to
see discussed..(for those who are using Plone)

I'm also planning on starting a Plone user group.. but there is a
strong desire from most of the Plonista's in the area to have meetings
in SF.. but we'll see :-)

Best Regards,
Donna M. Snow, Principal
C Squared Enterprises
illuminating your path to Open Source
http://www.csquaredtech.com
imagination | innovation | brilliance
Business 408.866.1300

From keith at dartworks.biz  Sun Feb  3 04:45:12 2008
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 03:45:12 +0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] Grok and Plone
In-Reply-To: <baf0d46b0802021920o626423c4m49a4582fa7ff5b52@mail.gmail.com>
References: <baf0d46b0802021920o626423c4m49a4582fa7ff5b52@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080203034512.186b8ab2@dartworks.biz>

Donna Snow wrote the following on 2008-02-02 at 19:20 PST:
===
> Please keep an eye on Plone.. not only is it growing.. but there is
> talk of making it much, much easier to use.. and faster :-) Lots of
> talk about WSGI and "Deliverance" which will improve the templating
> story for Plone.
> 
===

That's nice, it needs it. ;-) I tried using it once... or twice. 

Then I started using Django. It's ok...

But WSGI is cool, and I now prefer the component model of WSGI, using
Pylons and flup and some of my own stuff. My own stuff also works with
lighttpd as the front-end, and it even configures it for you so you
don't have to deal with that (does virtual hosting, too).

A simple example of it is here:

http://www.pycopia.net/webtools/headers

This is implemented in about 60 lines of pure Python code, and no
templates, or writing of XHTML tags of any kind (but some CSS). 

Flexibility is its primary feature.

The main parts of this page is entirely constructed by this code:

# Request handlers creates response document, returns finalized form.
def headers(request):
    resp = framework.ResponseDocument(request, doc_constructor, 
	title="Request Headers")
    get_header_table(resp.doc, request.META)
    return resp.finalize()

# callback to render a cell
def renderval(d, NM, key):
    return repr(d[key])

# create a table and add it to the response document
def get_header_table(doc, environ):
    # create dictionary of header names and values.
    d = dict([(k[5:].replace("_", "-").capitalize(), v) 
		for k, v in environ.items() if k.startswith("HTTP")])
    # Add new XHTML table with its contents.
    tbl = doc.new_table(d.keys(), [curry(renderval, d)], ("HTTP Headers",))
    tbl.width = "100%"



-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From tomdiz at yahoo.com  Sun Feb  3 05:52:40 2008
From: tomdiz at yahoo.com (Thomas DiZoglio)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:52:40 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows Python 2.5.1 IPV6 problems
Message-ID: <969274.51870.qm@web53507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I'm trying to get some IPV6 python code running under
Windows. I have installed Python 2.5.1 for Windows
using the binaries from python.org.

The code works fine under Debian and MacOSX (both
using Python 2.5)

I have rebuilt the python binaries from source and set
ENABLE_IPV6. This didn't help. I have also read about
not being able to bind to a IPV4 and IPV6 socket. I
tried setting the setsockopt() call using IPV6_V6ONLY,
but this is not recognized by the python interpreter.

Thanks for any help I can get. I'm stuck on this and
searching the NET for help.

I get the following error:

C:\test_py>python ipv6.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "ipv6.py", line 119, in <module>
    main()
  File "ipv6.py", line 113, in main
    p = listenTCP6(6666, TrivialServerFactory())
  File "ipv6.py", line 95, in listenTCP6
    return reactor.listenWith(Port, port, factory,
backlog, interface)
  File
"C:\python251\lib\site-packages\twisted\internet\posixbase.py",
line 499,
 in listenWith
    p.startListening()
  File
"C:\python251\lib\site-packages\twisted\internet\tcp.py",
line 730, in st
artListening
    skt = self.createInternetSocket()
  File
"C:\python251\lib\site-packages\twisted\internet\tcp.py",
line 718, in cr
eateInternetSocket
    s = base.BasePort.createInternetSocket(self)
  File
"C:\python251\lib\site-packages\twisted\internet\base.py",
line 724, in c
reateInternetSocket
    s = socket.socket(self.addressFamily,
self.socketType)
  File "C:\Python251\lib\socket.py", line 154, in
__init__
    _sock = _realsocket(family, type, proto)
TypeError: an integer is required


Thanks.
-------------------------
t0md

I run with the following command:
python ipv6.py

------------------------------------------------
HERE IS THE CODE for ipv6.py:
------------------------------------------------

#this is copied verbatim from
http://twistedmatrix.com/trac/browser/sandbox/exarkun/ipv6.py
#I'm unclear on the license that applies

import socket
from twisted.internet import tcp
from twisted.internet import protocol
from twisted.internet import reactor

class IPv6Address(object):
    def __init__(self, type, host, port, flowInfo,
scope):
        self.type = type
        self.host = host
        self.port = port
        self.flowInfo = flowInfo
        self.scope = scope

    def __eq__(self, other):
        if isinstance(other, IPv6Address):
            a = (self.type, self.host, self.port,
self.flowInfo, self.scope)
            b = (other.type, other.host, other.port,
other.flowInfo, other.scope)
            return a == b
        return False
    
    def __str__(self):
        return 'IPv6Address(%s, %r, %d, %d, %d)' % (
            self.type, self.host, self.port,
self.flowInfo, self.scope)

def isIPv6Address(ip):
    try:
        socket.inet_pton(socket.AF_INET6, ip)
    except:
        return 0
    return 1

class Client(tcp.Client):
    addressFamily = socket.AF_INET6

    def resolveAddress(self):
        if isIPv6Address(self.addr[0]):
            self._setRealAddress(self.addr[0])
        else:
           
reactor.resolve(self.addr[0]).addCallbacks(
                self._setRealAddress,
self.failIfNotConnected
            )

    def getHost(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP',
*self.socket.getsockname())

    def getPeer(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP',
*self.socket.getpeername())


class Connector(tcp.Connector):
    def _makeTransport(self):
        return Client(self.host, self.port,
self.bindAddress, self, self.reactor)
    
    def getDestination(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP', self.host,
self.port, 0, 0)

class Server(tcp.Server):
    def getHost(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP',
*self.socket.getsockname())

    def getPeer(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP', *self.client)

class Port(tcp.Port):
    addressFamily = socket.AF_INET6

    transport = Server

    def _buildAddr(self, address):
        return IPv6Address('TCP', *address)

    def getHost(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP',
*self.socket.getsockname())

    def getPeer(self):
        return IPv6Address('TCP',
*self.socket.getpeername())

def connectTCP6(host, port, factory, timeout=30,
bindAddress=None, reactor=None):
    if reactor is None:
        from twisted.internet import reactor
    return reactor.connectWith(
        Connector, host, port, factory, timeout,
bindAddress
    )


def listenTCP6(port, factory, backlog=5,
interface='::', reactor=None):
    if reactor is None:
        from twisted.internet import reactor
    #IPV6_V6ONLY = 27, IPV6_BINDV6ONLY
    #IPPROTO_IPV6 = 41
    #_socket.socket.setsockopt(_socket.IPPROTO_IPV6,
_socket.IPV6_V6ONLY, 0)
    return reactor.listenWith(Port, port, factory,
backlog, interface)

def main():
    from twisted.internet import reactor

    class TrivialProtocol(protocol.Protocol):
        def connectionMade(self):
            print 'I (', self.transport.getHost(), ')
am connected! (to ', self.transport.getPeer(), ')'
            self.transport.write('Hello, world!\n')
        
        def dataReceived(self, data):
            print 'Received: ' + repr(data)

    class
TrivialServerFactory(protocol.ServerFactory):
        protocol = TrivialProtocol
    class
TrivialClientFactory(protocol.ClientFactory):
        protocol = TrivialProtocol
    
    p = listenTCP6(6666, TrivialServerFactory())
    c = connectTCP6('::1', 6666,
TrivialClientFactory())
    
    reactor.run()

if __name__ == '__main__':
    main()





CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Proprietary/Confidential Information belonging to Virgil Software, Inc. may be contained in this message. If you are not a recipient indicated or intended in this message (or responsible for delivery of this message to such person), or you think for any reason that this message may have been addressed to you in error, you may not use or copy or deliver this message (and all attachments) to anyone else. In such case, you should destroy this message (and all attached documents) and are asked to notify the sender by reply email.


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and 
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ 


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 02:33:25 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 17:33:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] OLPC repair by children
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802031733t1863bd00h43f107a3a8b18184@mail.gmail.com>

There's generally a lot of baloney on Engadget, but since there has
been a lot of OLPC activity in Baypiggies,
I though I'd pass this on. You can decide for yourself.


http://www.engadget.com/tag/OLPC/

From jjinux at gmail.com  Mon Feb  4 21:46:52 2008
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 12:46:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Concurrency in Python
Message-ID: <c41f67b90802041246l249d0caeg4ef54aaf8da6781b@mail.gmail.com>

I translated my talk into an article for Dr. Dobb's Journal, and it
just came out:

Concurrency and Python
http://ddj.com/linux-open-source/206103078

Enjoy!
-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From jeff at drinktomi.com  Tue Feb  5 00:46:37 2008
From: jeff at drinktomi.com (Jeff Younker)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 15:46:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] History of python naming
Message-ID: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>

Does anyone have pointers to the history of python naming
conventions?   I'm curious how the std library ended up with
outliers like StringIO.StringIO.

- Jeff Younker - jeff at drinktomi.com -




From guido at python.org  Tue Feb  5 00:54:19 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 15:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] History of python naming
In-Reply-To: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>
References: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802041554w5027a3fah120620b512a98f38@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 4, 2008 3:46 PM, Jeff Younker <jeff at drinktomi.com> wrote:
> Does anyone have pointers to the history of python naming
> conventions?   I'm curious how the std library ended up with
> outliers like StringIO.StringIO.

It was simply me experimenting with different ways of doing things,
way, way long ago. And perhaps not pushing back enough on alternative
naming conventions used by early contributors. PEP 8 came much, much
later.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From jjinux at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 02:24:51 2008
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:24:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] History of python naming
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802041554w5027a3fah120620b512a98f38@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>
	<ca471dc20802041554w5027a3fah120620b512a98f38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90802041724icd1c8ffu90119bcf2738d1fa@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 4, 2008 3:54 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2008 3:46 PM, Jeff Younker <jeff at drinktomi.com> wrote:
> > Does anyone have pointers to the history of python naming
> > conventions?   I'm curious how the std library ended up with
> > outliers like StringIO.StringIO.
>
> It was simply me experimenting with different ways of doing things,
> way, way long ago. And perhaps not pushing back enough on alternative
> naming conventions used by early contributors. PEP 8 came much, much
> later.

The killer for me was camelCaseMethod names.  I seem to remember them
being allowed by the style guide seven years ago, and I have a bunch
of legacy code using them.  I remember when I first read the style
guide again and noticed that they were not allowed.  I was like,
"Crap!  How am I supposed to change the public API of open source
code?!?" *sigh*

-jj

-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/

From guido at python.org  Tue Feb  5 02:44:52 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 17:44:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] History of python naming
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90802041724icd1c8ffu90119bcf2738d1fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>
	<ca471dc20802041554w5027a3fah120620b512a98f38@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90802041724icd1c8ffu90119bcf2738d1fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802041744w319910b5v30b695304aed54be@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 4, 2008 5:24 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 4, 2008 3:54 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> > On Feb 4, 2008 3:46 PM, Jeff Younker <jeff at drinktomi.com> wrote:
> > > Does anyone have pointers to the history of python naming
> > > conventions?   I'm curious how the std library ended up with
> > > outliers like StringIO.StringIO.
> >
> > It was simply me experimenting with different ways of doing things,
> > way, way long ago. And perhaps not pushing back enough on alternative
> > naming conventions used by early contributors. PEP 8 came much, much
> > later.
>
> The killer for me was camelCaseMethod names.  I seem to remember them
> being allowed by the style guide seven years ago, and I have a bunch
> of legacy code using them.  I remember when I first read the style
> guide again and noticed that they were not allowed.  I was like,
> "Crap!  How am I supposed to change the public API of open source
> code?!?" *sigh*

You don't, of course; at least not until you have  amajor API design
on hand anyways. The PEP allows for historical deviations; it's mainly
meant to prevent more of such deviations to happen.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From p at ulmcnett.com  Tue Feb  5 04:34:37 2008
From: p at ulmcnett.com (Paul McNett)
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 19:34:37 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] History of python naming
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90802041724icd1c8ffu90119bcf2738d1fa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8EE91875-277D-4FD4-B1DA-D0385BF1DEC5@drinktomi.com>	<ca471dc20802041554w5027a3fah120620b512a98f38@mail.gmail.com>
	<c41f67b90802041724icd1c8ffu90119bcf2738d1fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47A7D94D.9050508@ulmcnett.com>

Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:

> On Feb 4, 2008 3:54 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
>> On Feb 4, 2008 3:46 PM, Jeff Younker <jeff at drinktomi.com> wrote:
>> > Does anyone have pointers to the history of python naming
>> > conventions?   I'm curious how the std library ended up with
>> > outliers like StringIO.StringIO.
>>
>> It was simply me experimenting with different ways of doing things,
>> way, way long ago. And perhaps not pushing back enough on alternative
>> naming conventions used by early contributors. PEP 8 came much, much
>> later.
> 
> The killer for me was camelCaseMethod names.  I seem to remember them
> being allowed by the style guide seven years ago, and I have a bunch
> of legacy code using them.  I remember when I first read the style
> guide again and noticed that they were not allowed.  I was like,
> "Crap!  How am I supposed to change the public API of open source
> code?!?" *sigh*

I had the same experience. I actually still use camelMethods and 
TitleCase properties. Then again, I also indent with tabs.

PEP's are great, for Python and the standard library. But I'm glad I 
don't have to conform to PEP 8 to the letter of the law in my own code.

Paul

-- 
http://paulmcnett.com

From millman at berkeley.edu  Tue Feb  5 09:55:45 2008
From: millman at berkeley.edu (Jarrod Millman)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 00:55:45 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] SciPy: Dates for next year? I wanna go :)
In-Reply-To: <c7009a550711151631s2fb264a9oeb8ec6ece186465d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <498A25D283DC184C88B42674F85DE457072D996F@ex1.homegain.com>
	<c7009a550711151631s2fb264a9oeb8ec6ece186465d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c7009a550802050055r7f3e9d6fq9853cdb2bd2168a2@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 15, 2007 4:31 PM, Jarrod Millman <millman at berkeley.edu> wrote:
> On Nov 15, 2007 4:16 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen.jarvis at homegain.com> wrote:
> > I saw the SciPy conference on the website and was hoping there will be one
> > next year. Planning vacation days are better with advanced warning. Can
> > anyone tell me if the conference was successful, if there will be another
> > one, and what any of the dates (or tentative dates) are for the next one...?
>
> Yes, there will be a SciPy 2008 Conference at CalTech during the
> summer.  We haven't got the dates yet, but we will have them soon.  I
> will make sure to announce the conference here as soon as the details
> are nailed down.

Hello,

I know that it was asked on this list before (and I can't remember if
anyone had already announced it), so I wanted to let everyone know
that this year's SciPy conference will be held during the week of
August 19-24, 2008 at Caltech in Pasadena, CA.  The SciPy project
includes NumPy (an array packages) and SciPy (a collection of
toolboxes for optimization, clustering, interpolation, etc.).

Thanks,

-- 
Jarrod Millman
Computational Infrastructure for Research Labs
10 Giannini Hall, UC Berkeley
phone: 510.643.4014
http://cirl.berkeley.edu/

From ppergame at cisco.com  Tue Feb  5 20:21:25 2008
From: ppergame at cisco.com (Pavel Pergamenshchik)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:21:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Windows Python 2.5.1 IPV6 problems
In-Reply-To: <969274.51870.qm@web53507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <969274.51870.qm@web53507.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20080205112125.29915424@bile>

On Sat, 2 Feb 2008 20:52:40 -0800 (PST)
Thomas DiZoglio <tomdiz at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to get some IPV6 python code running under
> Windows. I have installed Python 2.5.1 for Windows
> using the binaries from python.org.
> 
> The code works fine under Debian and MacOSX (both
> using Python 2.5)
> 
> I have rebuilt the python binaries from source and set
> ENABLE_IPV6. This didn't help. I have also read about
> not being able to bind to a IPV4 and IPV6 socket. I
> tried setting the setsockopt() call using IPV6_V6ONLY,
> but this is not recognized by the python interpreter.

Works fine here with the binaries from python.org:

Python 2.5.1 (r251:54863, Apr 18 2007, 08:51:08) [MSC v.1310 32 bit
(Intel)] on win32 Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for
more information.
>>> from socket import *
>>> s=socket(AF_INET6, SOCK_STREAM)
>>> s.connect(('xzrq.net', 22))
>>> s.getpeername()
('2001:470:1f02:252::2', 22, 0, 0)

Are you sure the problem is with your Python installation (why did you
recompile it, anyway?) and not the script you are using?

From charlie.groves at gmail.com  Tue Feb  5 20:20:31 2008
From: charlie.groves at gmail.com (Charlie Groves)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:20:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Jython Sprint on February 16th
Message-ID: <96c4692d0802051120m46c61181va03839f39127bd42@mail.gmail.com>

I'm one of the Jython developers, and I'm hosting a day long sprint on
Jython in downtown San Francisco with another couple of the developers
on Saturday the 16th.  We're planning on working on various things
towards the next major release of Jython, 2.5.

Anyone else in the area with an interest in developing Jython is more
than welcome to join us.  There are plenty of things that remain to be
done, so we'll be happy to help you pick out a task to get started
with.  There are more details, directions and a signup on the event's
page at http://jython.eventwax.com/jython-sprint

Charlie

From afife at untangle.com  Wed Feb  6 07:48:45 2008
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:48:45 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Bruce Perens @ BALUG (Feb 19th)
Message-ID: <002c01c8688c$60f92530$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>

Howdy Folks:

Bruce Perens will be giving a talk titled "Innovation Goes Public" at the
Bay Area Linux Users Group (BALUG) on February 19th.  (See the abstract
below)  

If you'd like to come, please RSVP: 
  
  RSVP at balug.org

If you haven't been to BALUG in a while, this a great opportunity to check
out what we're up to... and who knows you may just wind up eating dinner
with Bruce Perens at your table. 

Upcoming 2008 speakers include:

  Feb 19th - Bruce Perens
  March 25th (New Date) - Mark Shuttleworth (Ubuntu/Canonical)
  April 15th - Eric Allman (Sendmail)
  May 20th - Jeremy Allison (Samba)
  June 17th - Andrew Morton (Linux kernel)
  July 15th - Mike Linksvayer (Creative Commons)

So why not signup for BALUG's extremely low volume announce list:

  http://lists.balug.org/listinfo.cgi/balug-announce-balug.org

Meeting Details...

  6:30pm
  February 19th, 2008 
 
  Four Seas Restaurant
  731 Grant Ave.
  San Francisco, CA 94108
  PARKING:  http://www.portsmouthsquaregarage.com/

Cost:

  The meetings are always free, but dinner is $13

ABSTRACT: "Innovation Goes Public"
 
Presented by Bruce Perens, co-founder of the Open Source initiative
insoftware.

Open Source provides much of the software infrastructure for many of the
world's largest companies and organizations: Merrill Lynch, Google, Pixar,
Amazon, the City of New York, and probably you - although you might not
know it. Innovative products like Linux, Firefox, and Apache are the
market-leaders in their sectors, but there are tens of thousands of Open
Source programs, used for just about everything. But the economics of Open
Source are non-intuitive: how can you make money by giving software away?
Why did IBM de-emphasize AIX, after spending Billions, in favor of Linux,
the product of a loose collaboration of programmers that it can never
control? How can the world's greatest city trust Open Source to help
manage its jails?

Bruce Perens will show how Open Source is often the most effective
strategy for creating and utilizing new innovation. He will explain the
economics of Open Source and how it works for profit-generating companies.
His talk will be clear to beginners yet informative even for Open Source
pros.

About BALUG:

  BALUG is lively gathering of Linux users & free software enthusiasts
that
  combines great food, community & intimate access to featured speakers.
  We meet in the bar of the Four Seas Restaurant from 6:30pm.  At 7pm, we
  share a family-style Chinese dinner, which is followed by our guest
  speaker.

BALUG Mailing list Policy:

  BALUG promises not to abuse other LUGs mailing lists.  Our current
policy
  is to make one monthly announcement on other Bay Area LUGs mailing
lists.
  If you feel this is not appropriate for a particular list, please tell
us
  which list and what you feel would be a more appropriate policy for that
  list.  Please send feedback to balug-contact at balug.org.

----------------------------------------
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 


From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Wed Feb  6 21:50:47 2008
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 12:50:47 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Concurrency in Python
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90802041246l249d0caeg4ef54aaf8da6781b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c41f67b90802041246l249d0caeg4ef54aaf8da6781b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40802061250w410411bfk23176c82ef3970bf@mail.gmail.com>

Nice article on a hard topic.  Great job!  Congrats on publication.  -- Charles


On Feb 4, 2008 12:46 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> I translated my talk into an article for Dr. Dobb's Journal, and it
> just came out:
>
> Concurrency and Python
> http://ddj.com/linux-open-source/206103078
>
> Enjoy!
> -jj
>
> --
> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jim at well.com  Fri Feb  8 17:27:25 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:27:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] bayPIGgies meets Thursday,
	2/21: Guido van Rossum on Python 3.0
Message-ID: <18d92102b34d6d39cd653b401245e87c@well.com>


* SPECIAL NOTE: because Valentine's Day is on the second
* Thursday of February (2/14) bayPIGgies has moved our
* meeting to the third Thursday of the month, 2/21.


bayPIGgies meeting Thursday 2/21:

Guido van Rossum on Python 3.0
by Guido van Rossum

Guido previews his keynote about Python 3000 at PyCon next
month. Hear all about what Python 3000 means for your code,
what tools will be available to help you in the transition,
and how to be prepared for the next millennium.


Location: Google Campus
Building 40, the Kiev room (first floor)

bayPIGgies meeting information:
http://baypiggies.net/new/plone

* Please sign up in advance to have your google access
badge ready:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
(no later than close of business on Wednesday.)


Agenda-----------------------------

..... 7:30 PM ...........................
General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements,
any first-minute announcements.


..... 7:35 PM to 8:45 PM ................

The Talk (may extend a bit late)


..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM or After The Talk ................
Mapping and Random Access

Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the
announcers are interested in.

Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually
on the announcements and other topics of interest.


..... The March Meeting  ................
TBD


From guido at python.org  Fri Feb  8 17:53:52 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 08:53:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] bayPIGgies meets Thursday,
	2/21: Guido van Rossum on Python 3.0
In-Reply-To: <18d92102b34d6d39cd653b401245e87c@well.com>
References: <18d92102b34d6d39cd653b401245e87c@well.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802080853m27c3f937i4a03d15a0dd01cfa@mail.gmail.com>

This is two weeks from now and is off the regular schedule. Can
somebody *please* update the website?

On Feb 8, 2008 8:27 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
> * SPECIAL NOTE: because Valentine's Day is on the second
> * Thursday of February (2/14) bayPIGgies has moved our
> * meeting to the third Thursday of the month, 2/21.
>
>
> bayPIGgies meeting Thursday 2/21:
>
> Guido van Rossum on Python 3.0
> by Guido van Rossum
>
> Guido previews his keynote about Python 3000 at PyCon next
> month. Hear all about what Python 3000 means for your code,
> what tools will be available to help you in the transition,
> and how to be prepared for the next millennium.
>
>
> Location: Google Campus
> Building 40, the Kiev room (first floor)
>
> bayPIGgies meeting information:
> http://baypiggies.net/new/plone
>
> * Please sign up in advance to have your google access
> badge ready:
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> (no later than close of business on Wednesday.)
>
>
> Agenda-----------------------------
>
> ..... 7:30 PM ...........................
> General hubbub, inventory end-of-meeting announcements,
> any first-minute announcements.
>
>
> ..... 7:35 PM to 8:45 PM ................
>
> The Talk (may extend a bit late)
>
>
> ..... 8:45 PM to 9:00 PM or After The Talk ................
> Mapping and Random Access
>
> Mapping is a rapid-fire audience announcement of topics the
> announcers are interested in.
>
> Random Access follows immediately to allow follow up individually
> on the announcements and other topics of interest.
>
>
> ..... The March Meeting  ................
> TBD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Feb  8 19:06:52 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 10:06:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] bayPIGgies meets Thursday,
	2/21: Guido van Rossum on Python 3.0
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802080853m27c3f937i4a03d15a0dd01cfa@mail.gmail.com>
References: <18d92102b34d6d39cd653b401245e87c@well.com>
	<ca471dc20802080853m27c3f937i4a03d15a0dd01cfa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802081006v12a7f682h9166b7713258e093@mail.gmail.com>

On Feb 8, 2008 8:53 AM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:
> This is two weeks from now and is off the regular schedule. Can
> somebody *please* update the website?

Done

From keith at dartworks.biz  Sat Feb  9 05:03:12 2008
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2008 04:03:12 +0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] News flash: Python possibly guilty in excessive DTD
	traffic
Message-ID: <20080209040312.725218a2@dartworks.biz>


http://www.w3.org/blog/systeam/2008/02/08/w3c_s_excessive_dtd_traffic

This is interesting. I've noticed that when you use Python's XML
package in validating mode it does try to fetch the DTD. Be careful
when you use that.




-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From guido at python.org  Sun Feb 10 18:20:44 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2008 09:20:44 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] News flash: Python possibly guilty in excessive
	DTD traffic
In-Reply-To: <20080209040312.725218a2@dartworks.biz>
References: <20080209040312.725218a2@dartworks.biz>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802100920g72f86c96r5f4276b4c12c7f@mail.gmail.com>

[+xml-sig]

On Feb 8, 2008 8:03 PM, Keith Dart ♂ <keith at dartworks.biz> wrote:
>
> http://www.w3.org/blog/systeam/2008/02/08/w3c_s_excessive_dtd_traffic
>
> This is interesting. I've noticed that when you use Python's XML
> package in validating mode it does try to fetch the DTD. Be careful
> when you use that.

I think this is worth filing a bug, but I'd like to understand better
where the call is made. I can't find any places in the standard xml
package that does this -- but I'm not all that familiar with the code.
Do you know if it's in the base xml package, or in etree, or in the
separately distributed "XMLplus"? Any details you have would be
appreciated (like a traceback from the point where the call is made).

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From keith at dartworks.biz  Mon Feb 11 23:32:40 2008
From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=)
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2008 22:32:40 +0000
Subject: [Baypiggies] News flash: Python possibly guilty in excessive
 DTD traffic
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802100920g72f86c96r5f4276b4c12c7f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080209040312.725218a2@dartworks.biz>
	<ca471dc20802100920g72f86c96r5f4276b4c12c7f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080211223240.06bd6cba@dartworks.biz>

Guido van Rossum wrote the following on 2008-02-10 at 09:20 PST:
===
> I think this is worth filing a bug, but I'd like to understand better
> where the call is made. I can't find any places in the standard xml
> package that does this -- but I'm not all that familiar with the code.
> Do you know if it's in the base xml package, or in etree, or in the
> separately distributed "XMLplus"? Any details you have would be
> appreciated (like a traceback from the point where the call is made).
===

Ok, I'll look. It's been a while since I've tried using it in that
mode. It was the XMLplus package (I always install that), but I think
it may have also been requested by the wrapped C library (expat). I'll
investigate further. 



-- 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Keith Dart <keith at dartworks.biz>
   public key: ID: 19017044
   <http://www.dartworks.biz/>
   =====================================================================


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 01:51:40 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:51:40 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Magazine
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802121651y1d608972r3866ba02ce3de94a@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry if this is in repetition, but for those who are not yet aware,
there is new (only a few months old) magazine on Python available in
print and/or download format.

http://pymag.phparch.com/

Alex Martelli has written an article in the January issue on Regular
Expressions.


Enjoy!

From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 09:24:27 2008
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 00:24:27 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone User Group
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0802130024m286b8180lcdd169ec9a45ebff@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm looking to (finally) start a Plone User Group in the area.. so far
it's looking like most would like to have it in San Francisco.. or
around there...

Anyone know of a good company to approach who might be interested in
hosting a Zope/Plone User Group (ZPUG).. thinking of calling it
BayPuggies (just kidding)..
:-) .. I considered Google.. but it's a bit out of the way for the
main concentration of Plone developers...in the Bay Area...

Anyway if anyone is interested.. or knows of a company with some space
to host a user group meeting and/or local sprints.. that'd be great.

Thank You!

Donna M. Snow

From jjinux at gmail.com  Wed Feb 13 21:36:58 2008
From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 12:36:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: PyCon: deadline for hotel reservations and
	early-bird registration coming soon!
In-Reply-To: <47B25137.70707@python.org>
References: <47B25137.70707@python.org>
Message-ID: <c41f67b90802131236u2dcbed66w2f3e7378d31682c0@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: David Goodger <goodger at python.org>
Date: Feb 12, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: PyCon: deadline for hotel reservations and early-bird
registration coming soon!
To: python-announce at python.org, python-list at python.org, Python Dev
<python-dev at python.org>


If you haven't registered for PyCon yet, now is the time!  The
early-bird registration deadline is February 20, one week away.  After
that, the price for registration will be going up.

     http://us.pycon.org/2008/registration/

The deadline for hotel reservations at the conference rate is also
February 20.  Act now, because the regular rate is considerably
higher!

     http://us.pycon.org/2008/registration/hotel/

A reminder to tutorial and talk speakers: you are responsible for your
own registration and hotel reservations.  So don't delay!

PyCon 2008: March 14-16, 2008 (& tutorials March 13, & sprints March 17-20)

David Goodger
PyCon 2008 Chair


--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list

        Support the Python Software Foundation:
        http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html




-- 
I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080213/b9471e81/attachment.asc 

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Thu Feb 14 00:15:22 2008
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:15:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: PyCon: deadline for hotel reservations and
	early-bird registration coming soon!
In-Reply-To: <c41f67b90802131236u2dcbed66w2f3e7378d31682c0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <47B25137.70707@python.org>
	<c41f67b90802131236u2dcbed66w2f3e7378d31682c0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40802131515h77a7a6cu663a8b816d1bb536@mail.gmail.com>

I never use my hotel room at conventions except for crashing a couple
hours.   As I'm not currently working for pay, would anyone like to
split a hotel room?

-- Charles

On Feb 13, 2008 12:36 PM, Shannon -jj Behrens <jjinux at gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: David Goodger <goodger at python.org>
> Date: Feb 12, 2008 6:08 PM
> Subject: PyCon: deadline for hotel reservations and early-bird
> registration coming soon!
> To: python-announce at python.org, python-list at python.org, Python Dev
> <python-dev at python.org>
>
>
> If you haven't registered for PyCon yet, now is the time!  The
> early-bird registration deadline is February 20, one week away.  After
> that, the price for registration will be going up.
>
>      http://us.pycon.org/2008/registration/
>
> The deadline for hotel reservations at the conference rate is also
> February 20.  Act now, because the regular rate is considerably
> higher!
>
>      http://us.pycon.org/2008/registration/hotel/
>
> A reminder to tutorial and talk speakers: you are responsible for your
> own registration and hotel reservations.  So don't delay!
>
> PyCon 2008: March 14-16, 2008 (& tutorials March 13, & sprints March 17-20)
>
> David Goodger
> PyCon 2008 Chair
>
>
> --
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-announce-list
>
>         Support the Python Software Foundation:
>         http://www.python.org/psf/donations.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> I, for one, welcome our new Facebook overlords!
> http://jjinux.blogspot.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 14 18:03:16 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 09:03:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] reminder: meeting next week, Guido on py 3.0
Message-ID: <fd25d1e538f850da90123e10d6f000a3@well.com>


    just in case habits kick in or someone
missed the email:
    because today is valentine's day, we've
moved the bayPIGgies meeting to next
week, Thursday, 2/21. Guido will speak
on py 3.0 changes.
jim


From hcharnaw at vmware.com  Thu Feb 14 23:52:55 2008
From: hcharnaw at vmware.com (Hayley Charnaw)
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 14:52:55 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] VMware: Python Engineer; Palo Alto CA
Message-ID: <8721079AE8F2194E98B7C5781F0D291F19D3C3@PA-EXCH23.vmware.com>

 

Python Software Engineer - ESX Installation and Update Management

Location: Palo Alto, CA

 

VMware Inc., a pioneer in virtualization software for industry-standard
computers, is seeking a software engineer with strong distributed systems,
client-server and scalable applications development experience.  ESX server
is a robust, production-proved virtualization layer than abstracts processor,
memory, storage and networking resources into multiple virtual machines.  ESX
Server delivers the highest levels of performance, scalability and
flexibility required for enterprise IT environments.

This R&D position resides in our Core Technologies Group and will be a part
of our Kernel Applications Group.  This is open source software.   The
engineer in this role will gain exposure to many parts of our core OS and our
applications. As a result of this exposure, he/she will interface with many
groups in and outside of R&D.   This is an extremely visible role, at VMware
we strive to make our user experience seamless.   This is an opportunity to
work with the best and brightest in the industry.

Responsibilities: 
This position's primary role is in the design and implementation of Open
Source software for ESX installation, deployment and distribution. Work will
involve interaction with product management and will require work with
releases of new operating system versions, driver updates, and building Red
Hat Package Management (RPM) packages. Most of the coding will be in done in
Python with some limited use of Perl and C. 

Requirements: 
BS in Computer Science or equivalent. 
Fluent in Python. 
Experience in Linux administration and configuration. 
Experience with RPMs. 
Experience building a Linux distribution or Linux rescue disk is preferred.
C and C++ programming is desired.

Experience with signature verification (GPG, Checksums) desired
Experience with GTK or Glade a plus. 
Experience with YUM a plus.

 

 

Interested parties please contact Hayley Charnaw hcharnaw at vmware.com or
650-427-2130 

 

Send Resume to:

Hayley Charnaw

Hcharnaw at vmware.com

650-427-2130

 

 

  

 

 

 

Thanks, 

Hayley Charnaw

VMware Recruiting

650-427-2130

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080214/5dd389e7/attachment.htm 

From afife at untangle.com  Sat Feb 16 18:57:01 2008
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:57:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Massive Ubuntu Installfest for Schools (March 1st)
Message-ID: <003501c870c5$6767c020$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>

On Saturday March 1st, Untangle and the ACCRC are organizing a massive
installfest for Bay Area schools.  We are refurbishing hundreds of
older/discarded computers with Ubuntu and donating them to Bay Area
schools.  We need your help from Linux users installing Ubuntu at the 4
locations, which are San Francisco, Berkeley, San Mateo & Marin County.

Signup sheets for each location are here:

  http://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Installfest

If you can make the installfest, you can still help by driving
participation by blogging about the event or voting for it on Digg or
Slashdot.

http://slashdot.org/bookmark.pl?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest

http://www.digg.com/submit?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest&phase=2

More info on the installfest here:

  www.untangle.com/installfest

Why the event is cool:

  Helps spread F/OSS (Ubuntu, Firefox, OpenOffice & more)

  Helps bridges the Digital Divide with underprivileged users 

  Keeps toxic computer equipment out of landfills (Aprox 25,000 pounds)

  Is a cool community effort

Thanks in advance for your help!

-Andrew
----------------------------------------
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 


From donnamsnow at gmail.com  Sat Feb 16 22:41:17 2008
From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow)
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:41:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Massive Ubuntu Installfest for Schools (March 1st)
In-Reply-To: <003501c870c5$6767c020$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>
References: <003501c870c5$6767c020$4301a8c0@Untangle.local>
Message-ID: <baf0d46b0802161341t61501cbbre542e8b5dfc67e42@mail.gmail.com>

blogged on planet.plone.org

Best Regards,
Donna M. Snow, Principal
C Squared Enterprises
illuminate your web
http://www.csquaredtech.com
(408)866-1300


On Feb 16, 2008 9:57 AM, Andrew Fife <afife at untangle.com> wrote:

> On Saturday March 1st, Untangle and the ACCRC are organizing a massive
> installfest for Bay Area schools.  We are refurbishing hundreds of
> older/discarded computers with Ubuntu and donating them to Bay Area
> schools.  We need your help from Linux users installing Ubuntu at the 4
> locations, which are San Francisco, Berkeley, San Mateo & Marin County.
>
> Signup sheets for each location are here:
>
>  http://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Installfest
>
> If you can make the installfest, you can still help by driving
> participation by blogging about the event or voting for it on Digg or
> Slashdot.
>
> http://slashdot.org/bookmark.pl?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest
>
> http://www.digg.com/submit?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest&phase=2
>
> More info on the installfest here:
>
>  www.untangle.com/installfest
>
> Why the event is cool:
>
>  Helps spread F/OSS (Ubuntu, Firefox, OpenOffice & more)
>
>  Helps bridges the Digital Divide with underprivileged users
>
>  Keeps toxic computer equipment out of landfills (Aprox 25,000 pounds)
>
>  Is a cool community effort
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> -Andrew
> ----------------------------------------
> Andrew Fife
> Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
> download.untangle.com
>
> 650.425.3327 (O)
> 415.806.6028 (C)
> afife at untangle.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080216/9fb72051/attachment.htm 

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Tue Feb 19 05:59:12 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 20:59:12 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Looking for osafoundation.org members in BayPiggies
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802182059i4c57ffc2i95bc072f6715d147@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for the BW, but this is group business

If there are any people from osafoundation.org, would you please email
me off list?

Thanks

From lhawthorn at google.com  Wed Feb 20 01:09:22 2008
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:09:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] please register on the wiki
Message-ID: <4869cee70802191609i2280e2eeob4f82c2e6a347b92@mail.gmail.com>

Hello folks,

Please remember to register on the wiki by 5 PM tomorrow to ensure
your pre-printed badge is available for you at security:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings

Remember, it's fine to not pre-register, but it does mean you will
need to plan to sign in at reception when you arrive.

Tiffany can confirm the lobby and room arrangements for us.

Cheers,
LH

-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/

I blog here:

http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com  -
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com -
http://www.hawthornlandings.org

From lhawthorn at google.com  Wed Feb 20 01:18:30 2008
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 16:18:30 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] please register on the wiki
In-Reply-To: <b62c7c790802191617u7f86256fm8ba78b48c51d5493@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4869cee70802191609i2280e2eeob4f82c2e6a347b92@mail.gmail.com>
	<b62c7c790802191617u7f86256fm8ba78b48c51d5493@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70802191618x2ca50f15lb12a20293bfde199@mail.gmail.com>

Sending just in case Tiff's post to the list bounces back.

Cheers,
LH

On Feb 19, 2008 4:17 PM, Tiffany Griffith <tgriffith at google.com> wrote:
> Please arrive at the lobby of bldg 40 - the meeting will be in the Kiev
> Training room.
> Thanks
> Tiffany
>
>
> On Feb 19, 2008 4:09 PM, Leslie Hawthorn <lhawthorn at google.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello folks,
> >
> > Please remember to register on the wiki by 5 PM tomorrow to ensure
> > your pre-printed badge is available for you at security:
> >
> > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
> >
> > Remember, it's fine to not pre-register, but it does mean you will
> > need to plan to sign in at reception when you arrive.
> >
> > Tiffany can confirm the lobby and room arrangements for us.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > LH
> >
> > --
> > Leslie Hawthorn
> > Program Manager - Open Source
> > Google Inc.
> >
> > http://code.google.com/opensource/
> >
> > I blog here:
> >
> > http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com  -
> > http://google-opensource.blogspot.com -
> > http://www.hawthornlandings.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tiffany Griffith  |  Open Source Programs Office  |  Google Inc.
> tgriffith at google.com  |  650-253.7242 Direct  | 650.214.8031 Fax
>
> "May the source be with you"
>



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/

I blog here:

http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com  -
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com -
http://www.hawthornlandings.org

From mrbmahoney at gmail.com  Wed Feb 20 04:32:05 2008
From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney)
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:32:05 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, February 21, 6 pm
Message-ID: <5538c19b0802191932s4f8413e2sc21cc92d00c14889@mail.gmail.com>

For Thursday, February 21, I can coordinate a pre-meeting
 dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting
 at Google .

 Restaurant reservations may be sent to my email until
 Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style,
 there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes.  Cost around
 $10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please.

 Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we
 finish and get everyone headed towards Google to
 complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start.

 The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View
 (650) 960-1677
 743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where
 Books, Inc is on the corner.
 Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View
 parking can be difficult.

 It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese
 restaurant.  This link has a downtown map and
 additional information.
 http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html

 I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm
 Thursday.

 If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me
 by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm
 the headcount.

From ross at pcnt.com  Thu Feb 21 00:36:16 2008
From: ross at pcnt.com (Ross Parlette)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:36:16 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration Wiki
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1203505201.13899.baypiggies@python.org>
References: <mailman.0.1203505201.13899.baypiggies@python.org>
Message-ID: <47BCB970.5070205@pcnt.com>

baypiggies-request at python.org wrote:
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
>
> Remember, it's fine to not pre-register, but it does mean you will
> need to plan to sign in at reception when you arrive.
>
> Tiffany can confirm the lobby and room arrangements for us.
>
> Cheers,
> LH
>   
I checked the registration page on the wiki and there are a LOT of folks 
registered. Should be a good meeting. I'm a bit puzzled by Skip 
Montanaro's name / link. It's well above the area I'd expect for meeting 
regestrants and links to a page right in the wiki, as do a couple of 
others. But his is the only one which has actual content. Is this 
something more of us should consider doing?

Also, when I generated the Feb list area on the page, I didn't delete 
the Jan sign-up list. But perhaps now we (soneone else?) should.

Ross Parlette


From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 21 00:55:52 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 15:55:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration Wiki
In-Reply-To: <47BCB970.5070205@pcnt.com>
References: <mailman.0.1203505201.13899.baypiggies@python.org>
	<47BCB970.5070205@pcnt.com>
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802201555u68308d13ydf052e85ccc3e55b@mail.gmail.com>

Instead of a wiki to add names for badges, we need a simple web entry
form that simply adds/deletes
names from a list which is not editable by everyone. Messing up the
list of names has happened several times.

Who are the web programmers out there?


On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Ross Parlette <ross at pcnt.com> wrote:
> baypiggies-request at python.org wrote:
>  >
>  > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
>  >
>  > Remember, it's fine to not pre-register, but it does mean you will
>  > need to plan to sign in at reception when you arrive.
>  >
>  > Tiffany can confirm the lobby and room arrangements for us.
>  >
>  > Cheers,
>  > LH
>  >
>  I checked the registration page on the wiki and there are a LOT of folks
>  registered. Should be a good meeting. I'm a bit puzzled by Skip
>  Montanaro's name / link. It's well above the area I'd expect for meeting
>  regestrants and links to a page right in the wiki, as do a couple of
>  others. But his is the only one which has actual content. Is this
>  something more of us should consider doing?
>
>  Also, when I generated the Feb list area on the page, I didn't delete
>  the Jan sign-up list. But perhaps now we (soneone else?) should.
>
>  Ross Parlette
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From ross at pcnt.com  Thu Feb 21 02:08:19 2008
From: ross at pcnt.com (Ross Parlette)
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:08:19 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Registration Wiki
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0802201555u68308d13ydf052e85ccc3e55b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.0.1203505201.13899.baypiggies@python.org>	
	<47BCB970.5070205@pcnt.com>
	<8249c4ac0802201555u68308d13ydf052e85ccc3e55b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47BCCF03.4020500@pcnt.com>

I'm not a web programmer but I suppose a general approach would be to 
allow a logged-in person to add his/her name as well as a guest or two. 
A non-logged-in person could add his/her name, but not guests? This 
would make it simple for members to sign up but also make it fairly easy 
for others to register or be registered.

Ross

Tony Cappellini wrote:
> Instead of a wiki to add names for badges, we need a simple web entry
> form that simply adds/deletes
> names from a list which is not editable by everyone. Messing up the
> list of names has happened several times.
>
> Who are the web programmers out there?
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:36 PM, Ross Parlette <ross at pcnt.com> wrote:
>   
>> baypiggies-request at python.org wrote:
>>  >
>>  > http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings
>>  >
>>  > Remember, it's fine to not pre-register, but it does mean you will
>>  > need to plan to sign in at reception when you arrive.
>>  >
>>  > Tiffany can confirm the lobby and room arrangements for us.
>>  >
>>  > Cheers,
>>  > LH
>>  >
>>  I checked the registration page on the wiki and there are a LOT of folks
>>  registered. Should be a good meeting. I'm a bit puzzled by Skip
>>  Montanaro's name / link. It's well above the area I'd expect for meeting
>>  regestrants and links to a page right in the wiki, as do a couple of
>>  others. But his is the only one which has actual content. Is this
>>  something more of us should consider doing?
>>
>>  Also, when I generated the Feb list area on the page, I didn't delete
>>  the Jan sign-up list. But perhaps now we (soneone else?) should.
>>
>>  Ross Parlette
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Baypiggies mailing list
>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>>     



From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Fri Feb 22 03:01:53 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:01:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Free Expo Passes for SD West, from O'Reilly Books
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802211801n44f4b3b1yb0d7d72f0dc5530b@mail.gmail.com>

Hello BayPIGgies members,


O'Reilly has graciously given us a code to get free EXPO PASSES for SD
West,  March 3-7, 2008, Santa Clara Convention Center.
You must register by Feb 27 to get the pass!


If you have any problems with registration, please email me privately.


Thanks O'Reilly!


******************************************************************************
Free Expo passes are available for the upcoming Southwest Developer
Conference & Expo (West).

Register at http://www.sdexpo.com with the priority code 8WEXH81 by
February 27 to get a free expo pass good for admission to the expo
floor, all keynote
presentations, the opening floor party, the Developer Bowl, and more.

Expo hall hours:

http://www.sdexpo.com/2008/west/expo.htm

******************************************************************************

From hugs at google.com  Fri Feb 22 19:25:31 2008
From: hugs at google.com (Jason Huggins)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 10:25:31 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announcement: Selenium Users Open Evening: Monday,
	February 25, 2008
Message-ID: <49fec330802221025i2fec331fg99189ddee2540941@mail.gmail.com>

Hello everyone!

If you're interested in web app testing tools, keep reading!

The skinny:
For those not familiar with it, Selenium is a cross-browser (IE, Firefox,
Safari), cross-platform (Mac, Windows, Linux), cross-language (Python, Perl,
Ruby, Tcl, Scheme, Java, C#) web application functional testing tool.

Google is hosting the first ever Selenium users meeting on Monday, February
25. Though Selenium is not a 100% Python-based project, many in Python-land
do use it. (In fact, Selenium was extracted from a Plone-based application
back in 2004!)

Here's the the official announcement about the event:
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/02/selenium-users-event-coming-up.html

And here's the direct link to the event sign-up page:
http://selenium.openqa.org/meetup.jsp

Hope to see you there!

Jason Huggins,
Test Engineer, Google
Selenium Creator/Developer
hugs at google dot com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080222/4ad4f666/attachment.htm 

From annaraven at gmail.com  Sat Feb 23 03:19:58 2008
From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:19:58 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [opensource] [UPDATED] "Innovation Goes Public"
	by Bruce Perens - March 6th
In-Reply-To: <39360782-12DD-4031-8CEB-B9713DFB046F@stanford.edu>
References: <7294B802-4BB4-46D9-8F00-D9B95FB1198B@stanford.edu>
	<39360782-12DD-4031-8CEB-B9713DFB046F@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <cb361a610802221819y7ec6070ctb03531fe7a7a4dbb@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Marco Wise <marco.wise at stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, Feb 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM
Subject: [opensource] [UPDATED] "Innovation Goes Public" by Bruce
Perens - March 6th
To: opensource at lists.stanford.edu, drupallers at lists.stanford.edu,
su_webmasters at lists.stanford.edu, wordpress-users at lists.stanford.edu,
mediawiki-users at lists.stanford.edu


[Updated with Location, lunch information, additional co-sponsor,
 flyer download location (bottom)]


 Hi All,

 The Stanford Open Source Lab is pleased to present "Innovation Goes
 Public", a talk by Bruce Perens, a leader in the Free Software and
 Open Source community and the creator of the Open Source Definition.
 Please save the date for this lunchtime talk on March 6th (lunch will
 be provided). Please forward this to anyone you think might be
 interested.

 Innovation Goes Public
 a talk by Bruce Perens

 Thursday March 6th from 12-1:30 (lunch will be provided)
 Psychology Building, Jordan Hall, Room 420-041


 Abstract:

 Open Source provides much of the software infrastructure for many of
 the world's largest companies and organizations: Merrill Lynch,
 Google, Pixar, Amazon, the City of New York, and probably you -
 although you might not know it. Innovative products like Linux,
 Firefox, and Apache are the market-leaders in their sectors, but there
 are tens of thousands of Open Source programs, used for just about
 everything. But the economics of Open Source are non-intuitive: how
 can you make money by giving software away? Why did IBM de-emphasize
 AIX, after spending Billions, in favor of Linux, the product of a
 loose collaboration of programmers that it can never control? How can
 the world's greatest city trust Open Source to help manage its jails?

 Perens will show how Open Source is often the most effective strategy
 for creating and utilizing new innovation. He will explain the
 economics of Open Source and how it works for profit-generating
 companies. His talk will be clear to beginners yet informative even
 for Open Source pros.

 --

 Biography:

 Bruce Perens is a leader in the Free Software and Open Source
 community. He advises large corporations and several national
 governments on Open Source policy. He is creator of the Open Source
 Definition, the manifesto of the Open Source movement in Software.
 Perens is a vice president at Sourcelabs, a venture-funded company
 that provides Open Source services to Wall Street. He is a visiting
 researcher at Agder University in Norway, funded by a national grant.
 He was HP's first Senior Global Strategist for Linux and Open Source,
 and was Senior Research Scientist for Open Source with George
 Washington University's Cyber Security Policy Research Institute. The
 Bruce Perens' Open Source Series from Prentice Hall published 24
 titles with Perens as series editor. Perens previously spent 20 years
 in the computer graphic animation industry, 12 of them at Pixar
 Animation Studios. He has a credit on the films A Bug's Life and Toy
 Story II.

 --

 This talk is co-sponsored by the Academic Technology Specialist
 program, the Center for Internet & Society, IT Services and Symbolic
 Systems.



 A flyer for this talk can be downloaded from here:
 https://www.stanford.edu/group/opensource/cgi-bin/wiki/index.php?title=Image:Perens.pdf
 Please let us know (opensource at lists.stanford.edu) if you are able to
 post this flyer around campus and where so we don't duplicate efforts.

 Thanks!


 _______________________________________________
 opensource mailing list
 opensource at lists.stanford.edu
 https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/opensource



-- 
cordially,
Anna
--
Walking through the water. Trying to get across.
Just like everybody else.

From rdm at cfcl.com  Mon Feb 25 03:21:26 2008
From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:21:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. February 27
Message-ID: <p06230954c3e7d67cd82e@[192.168.1.205]>

We continue to have fun playing with XO (OLPC) computers;
we'll be bringing ours to BASS again.  We've also had fun
talking with the MetaWeb folks about their Python/MQL/...
knowledge base, FreeBase (http://www.freebase.com).


The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again!  If you'd like to
eat good Chinese food, chat with other local scripters,
and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks,
this is the place to do it!

For your convenience, here are the critical details:

  Date:   Wednesday, February 27, 2008 (4th. Wed.)
  Time:   8:00 pm
  Place:  Pasquales Pizzeria
          701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.)
          San Francisco, California, USA
          415/661-2140


See the BASS web page for more information:

  http://cfcl.com/rdm/bass/

-r
-- 
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm            Rich Morin
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume     rdm at cfcl.com
http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog     +1 650-873-7841

Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development

From aahz at pythoncraft.com  Mon Feb 25 05:26:18 2008
From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:26:18 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announcement: Selenium Users Open Evening: Monday,
	February 25, 2008
In-Reply-To: <49fec330802221025i2fec331fg99189ddee2540941@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49fec330802221025i2fec331fg99189ddee2540941@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080225042618.GA18089@panix.com>

On Fri, Feb 22, 2008, Jason Huggins wrote:
>
> Google is hosting the first ever Selenium users meeting on Monday, February
> 25. Though Selenium is not a 100% Python-based project, many in Python-land
> do use it. (In fact, Selenium was extracted from a Plone-based application
> back in 2004!)

I'm interested, but I'm somewhat put off by the demand for ID.  I've
attended several events at Google in the past and this is the first time
I recall seeing that.  Is this a new policy or what?
-- 
Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com)           <*>         http://www.pythoncraft.com/

"All problems in computer science can be solved by another level of     
indirection."  --Butler Lampson

From guido at python.org  Mon Feb 25 05:44:21 2008
From: guido at python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:44:21 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announcement: Selenium Users Open Evening: Monday,
	February 25, 2008
In-Reply-To: <20080225042618.GA18089@panix.com>
References: <49fec330802221025i2fec331fg99189ddee2540941@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080225042618.GA18089@panix.com>
Message-ID: <ca471dc20802242044n115fccft1374a179659b5c45@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 8:26 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 22, 2008, Jason Huggins wrote:
>  >
>  > Google is hosting the first ever Selenium users meeting on Monday, February
>  > 25. Though Selenium is not a 100% Python-based project, many in Python-land
>  > do use it. (In fact, Selenium was extracted from a Plone-based application
>  > back in 2004!)
>
>  I'm interested, but I'm somewhat put off by the demand for ID.  I've
>  attended several events at Google in the past and this is the first time
>  I recall seeing that.  Is this a new policy or what?

I'm guessing the Selenium people haven't attended a Google event
before. I've never seen any Google visitor asked for ID.

-- 
--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

From lhawthorn at google.com  Mon Feb 25 05:59:38 2008
From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn)
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:59:38 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Announcement: Selenium Users Open Evening: Monday,
	February 25, 2008
In-Reply-To: <ca471dc20802242044n115fccft1374a179659b5c45@mail.gmail.com>
References: <49fec330802221025i2fec331fg99189ddee2540941@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080225042618.GA18089@panix.com>
	<ca471dc20802242044n115fccft1374a179659b5c45@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4869cee70802242059h7a8cda0fu897276034e672f6d@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Guido van Rossum <guido at python.org> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 24, 2008 at 8:26 PM, Aahz <aahz at pythoncraft.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Feb 22, 2008, Jason Huggins wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Google is hosting the first ever Selenium users meeting on Monday,
> February
> >  > 25. Though Selenium is not a 100% Python-based project, many in
> Python-land
> >  > do use it. (In fact, Selenium was extracted from a Plone-based
> application
> >  > back in 2004!)
> >
> >  I'm interested, but I'm somewhat put off by the demand for ID.  I've
> >  attended several events at Google in the past and this is the first
> time
> >  I recall seeing that.  Is this a new policy or what?
>
> I'm guessing the Selenium people haven't attended a Google event
> before. I've never seen any Google visitor asked for ID.
>

I don't know for sure, but my guess is these folks are asking for ID since
there's a limited number of visitors we can accomodate for this event (~120)
and they want to ensure that those who come are actually those who
registered.

We're helping host this event and I'll make sure I let these folks know we
don't usually ask for ID.

I hope folks can make it - should be a fun evening.

Best,
LH



-- 
Leslie Hawthorn
Program Manager - Open Source
Google Inc.

http://code.google.com/opensource/

I blog here:

http://googlesummerofcode.blogspot.com  -
http://google-opensource.blogspot.com - http://www.hawthornlandings.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080224/dc575340/attachment.htm 

From echerlin at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 01:21:52 2008
From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin)
Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [OLPC-SF] Meetup on Tuesday (Citizen Space, SOMA)
Message-ID: <e574f6eb0802251621r6b9da474tf4819d59855ede10@mail.gmail.com>

What he said. XOs on Second St. in SF tomorrow. I'm bringing two.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Date: Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Subject: [svlug] (forw) [sf-lug] Fwd: [OLPC-SF] Meetup on Tuesday
(Citizen Space, SOMA)
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org


Of likely interest.

 ----- Forwarded message from jim stockford <jim at well.com> -----

 To: Linux userGroup <sf-lug at linuxmafia.com>
 From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 08:17:49 -0800
 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.624)
 Subject: [sf-lug] Fwd: [OLPC-SF] Meetup on Tuesday (Citizen Space, SOMA)


 seen on OLPC-SF mailing list:

 > Hey folks, I just found out about this meetup in SOMA on Tuesday.
 >
 > http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/432675/
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > OLPC-SF mailing list
 > OLPC-SF at lists.laptop.org
 > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/olpc-sf

 it's tomorrow (tuesday, 20080226) from 6:00 PM to 8:00 PM
 at Citizen Space on 425 Second Street (at Harrison) #300.



 _______________________________________________
 sf-lug mailing list
 sf-lug at linuxmafia.com
 http://linuxmafia.com/mailman/listinfo/sf-lug

 ----- End forwarded message -----

 _______________________________________________
 svlug mailing list
 svlug at lists.svlug.org
 http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug



-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay

From echerlin at gmail.com  Tue Feb 26 18:46:22 2008
From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin)
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:46:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] [OLPC-Games] Treenimation: help wanted
In-Reply-To: <001201c87889$94e8b330$9501a8c0@mike>
References: <001201c87889$94e8b330$9501a8c0@mike>
Message-ID: <e574f6eb0802260946g4495a5f9w676bae54a4441696@mail.gmail.com>

Copied to Bay Area Python Interest group. I'll talk to the Hip-Hop
Chess Federation, too, and to people I know in the game industry.

On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 7:09 AM, Mike Hahn <mike at treenimation.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>  As a newcomer to the Linux/Python world, I am seeking to team up with an
>  experienced Python programmer, preferably someone who knows Pygame. If
>  you're interested, please visit http://www.treenimation.net and click on
>  Help Wanted (under Miscellaneous). Treenimation is a software tool enabling
>  you to create multiplayer board games, features a built-in scripting
>  language called Treescript, and runs on both Windows and Linux platforms.
>
>  Regards,
>  Mike Hahn

The home page says , "Treenimation Builder (which is not yet
implemented) runs on both Windows and Linux." There seems to be a
problem with that statement.

The gamedemos page says, "All of the games except Scramble and Bridge
Deluxe demonstrate the user interface of a minimally coded (or
completely codeless) Treenimation board game. There is little or no
move validation (checking for illegal moves), no playing against the
computer, and of course these demos are not web-enabled (single
computer only). Both the Scramble and Bridge Deluxe demos have move
validation but no playing against the computer."

What would it take to implement collaboration in the Sugar manner, so
that two or more XO users can play a game together, with any number of
observers?

I would like to see implementations of African board games such as
owari and mlabalaba, Chinese/Korean/Japanese flower card (hanafuda)
games, and many others. There are lots of good ideas on the Games page
in the Wiki.

Is it possible in Treenimation and Treescript to implement the Superko
rule in some versions of go/weiqi/baduk, which forbids repetition of
an earlier board position? Can we create a UI that allows the user to
choose from the various rule options? Can Treenimation track previous
positions in chess, to implement the three repetitions rule for
claiming a draw? Or the rule against castling if either the King or
the Rook has previously moved?

Chess with move validation would be perfect for kriegspiel. This is
chess where the players see only their own pieces (fog of war), and
have to locate enemy pieces by attempting illegal moves. People don't
play kriegspiel over the board much, partly because it requires a
referee.

-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Wed Feb 27 21:08:09 2008
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:08:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
Message-ID: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>

Summary: Can I assume, 100% of the time, that a destructor is called  
before a program ends?

If not, what is the design pattern to "time" issues in Python  
automatically at program begin time/end time? Futher granularity into  
the object level would be very helpful and preferred.


Details:


I have built the design of my current project around what I thought  
was ?expected behavior.? I?m now starting to question my original  
beliefs that this is expected behavior. I come from a C++ background  
where things are allocated and de-allocated manually. I sometimes  
make things harder in Python because I don?t know how it?s ?supposed?  
to do things (which has always been much easier than I made it).

My question is when the destructor for an object is called. I had  
always believed that the destructor would be called for any object at  
least by program end. In fact, this is what occurs in the following  
test case to demonstrate:

In my test case that I just built, I get ?good? behavior. This is the  
behavior I have expected from C++ and is the assumption I walked into  
this design with.  This is not the behavior I see in my current  
project. So, either
1)       this is not an accurate test case,
2)       we can never expect this behavior to be guaranteed, or
3)       I have a mistake in my code that this test case does not  
reflect.

This can be boiled down to one single question ?What should I expect  
from Python?? I?m casting a wider net so I can design around what is  
expected in Python - without just hacking about...

Test case follows:


import datetime
import time


class X:
     def __init__(self):
         self._job_begin_time = datetime.datetime.now()
         print "My job has started at %s " % self._job_begin_time

     def __del__(self):
         self._job_end_time = datetime.datetime.now()
         print "My job has ended at %s " % self._job_end_time
         print "Job took this much time: %s" % (self._job_end_time -
                                                self._job_begin_time )

     def waste_some_time(self):
         time.sleep(5.0)

print "Starting job X"
myX = X()
myX.waste_some_time()
print "Ending job X"



Here is the output?

[gjarvis at gjarvis cron_util]$ python testcase.py
Starting job X
My job has started at 2008-02-27 11:47:59.319781
Ending job X
My job has ended at 2008-02-27 11:48:04.320517
Job took this much time: 0:00:05.000736
[gjarvis at gjarvis cron_util]$ python testcase.py
Starting job X
My job has started at 2008-02-27 11:48:06.307024
Ending job X
My job has ended at 2008-02-27 11:48:11.307496
Job took this much time: 0:00:05.000472
[gjarvis at gjarvis cron_util]$ python testcase.py
Starting job X
My job has started at 2008-02-27 11:48:13.343558
Ending job X
My job has ended at 2008-02-27 11:48:18.344515
Job took this much time: 0:00:05.000957
[gjarvis at gjarvis cron_util]$ python testcase.py
Starting job X
My job has started at 2008-02-27 11:48:20.219613
Ending job X
My job has ended at 2008-02-27 11:48:25.220510
Job took this much time: 0:00:05.000897


Warmest Regards,


Glen Jarvis

--
415-680-3964
glen at glenjarvis.com
http://www.glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080227/63d7ae6b/attachment.htm 

From aleax at google.com  Wed Feb 27 22:32:56 2008
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:32:56 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
In-Reply-To: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>
References: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0802271332l26e1c860r56a4490b898b4845@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
>
> Summary: Can I assume, 100% of the time, that a destructor is called before
> a program ends?

No (reference loops for example inhibit that).

> If not, what is the design pattern to "time" issues in Python automatically
> at program begin time/end time? Futher granularity into the object level
> would be very helpful and preferred.

See http://docs.python.org/lib/module-atexit.html for a way to to
ALMOST this; however, for a sufficiently hard crash of a program, no
such guarantee can be offered in-process (in Python's atexit case, the
lack of guarantee also applies to program-killed-by-signal and
os._exit calls, but even if you could bypass those sufficiently hard
crashes would STILL invalidate the guarantee, e.g. kill -9 ENSURES no
more code in the harshy-killed process will run).  The architecture
pattern that may help with that issue is to have a separate "watchdog
process" that detects whether the target process is alive or dead
(exactly how best to do that varies by operating system, since the
detection depends on services the OS is providing to your processes):
that might trigger some code to run no matter how harshly and abruptly
the target process dies (however you will need to run the watchdog on
separate hardware if you also want to catch cases in which the whole
machine running the target process suddenly loses power, so its OS
also dies with no chance of recovery -- etc, etc).

So, in brief, it depends on the level of guarantee you need...

Alex

From afife at untangle.com  Thu Feb 28 00:36:24 2008
From: afife at untangle.com (Andrew Fife)
Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:36:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Donating 500 F/OSS Computers to Schools... SATURDAY!!
	(Pizza & Schwag	from Mozilla!!)
Message-ID: <02ce01c87999$a88d2a40$0200a8c0@Untangle.local>

We're trying to donate 500 Ubuntu computers to Bay Area schools this
SATURDAY... and we need your help!

Can you lend a hand by volunteering to install Ubuntu?  Signup to
volunteer at one of the four locations (San Francisco, San Mateo, Berkeley
or Novato) here:

  http://wiki.untangle.com/index.php/Installfest

Untangle and the ACCRC refurbishing hundreds of older/discarded computers
that the ACCRC has collected with Ubuntu and donating them to Northern
California schools.  We need support from the F/OSS community to help with
the installs.  We have automated as much of the install as possible so
anyone can help regardless of their experience level. Of course we'll get
error messages so we need gurus also!  ...And the Mozilla Foundation is
bringing pizza & schwag to each location!  Thanks Mozilla!

Installfest for Schools homepage:

  http://www.untangle.com/installfest

Can't make the installfest but still want to help????  Help get the word
out by blogging about it, Digg it or Slashdot it:

http://slashdot.org/bookmark.pl?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest

http://www.digg.com/submit?url=http://www.untangle.com/installfest&phase=2

Why the event is cool:

  -Helps spread F/OSS (Ubuntu, Firefox, OpenOffice & more)

  -Helps bridges the Digital Divide with underprivileged users 

  -Keeps toxic computer equipment out of landfills (Aprox 25,000 pounds)

  -Is a cool community effort

Thanks in advance for your help!

-Andrew

----------------------------------------
Andrew Fife
Untangle - Open Source Security Gateway
download.untangle.com

650.425.3327 (O)
415.806.6028 (C)
afife at untangle.com 

From aleax at google.com  Thu Feb 28 19:45:02 2008
From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 10:45:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
In-Reply-To: <F68B2F3F-39A3-43D9-8F21-3CB1B97F21BC@glenjarvis.com>
References: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>
	<55dc209b0802271332l26e1c860r56a4490b898b4845@mail.gmail.com>
	<F68B2F3F-39A3-43D9-8F21-3CB1B97F21BC@glenjarvis.com>
Message-ID: <55dc209b0802281045v4ab2b5f8x128bab6c7e132e63@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com> wrote:
> Alex,
>
>      This is awesome! Thanks for letting me know about the atexit
>  module. I don't need a guarantee that the program will exit properly
>  if it is killed. I just need the program to "normally" do some clean-
>  up in a predictable manner.
>
>      This library works perfectly (although I need to do some
>  redesign work to make this fit cleanly in my model).
>
>      Regardless, I greatly appreciate the help. That's awesome. =)  I
>  hope your meeting went well =)

Yep, thanks;-).  My job responsibilities in the field of cluster
management software push me to think all the time about the harshest
and most unlikely failure modes and how best to ensure they're caught
and dealt with, but I do still fondly and nostalgically remember the
good old days when all I had to focus on were "normal" terminations
and "just reasonably abnormal" failure ones...;-).


Alex

From jim at well.com  Thu Feb 28 20:09:02 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:09:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0802281045v4ab2b5f8x128bab6c7e132e63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>
	<55dc209b0802271332l26e1c860r56a4490b898b4845@mail.gmail.com>
	<F68B2F3F-39A3-43D9-8F21-3CB1B97F21BC@glenjarvis.com>
	<55dc209b0802281045v4ab2b5f8x128bab6c7e132e63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b5d6ad12ab20ae26554eb86968b7d0@well.com>


On Feb 28, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Alex Martelli wrote:
>  My job responsibilities in the field of cluster
> management software push me to think all the time about the harshest
> and most unlikely failure modes and how best to ensure they're caught
> and dealt with...

that sounds like a good topic for a bayPIGgies talk.




From joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com  Thu Feb 28 20:20:55 2008
From: joelvanderkwaak at yahoo.com (Joel VanderKwaak)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:20:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
Message-ID: <736728.82682.qm@web50207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

I'd be interested learning more as well, as I face similar challenges managing distributed jobs at a geophysics company (using a hand-rolled python-based framework ;) )

----- Original Message ----
From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
To: Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com>
Cc: BayPiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:09:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?


On Feb 28, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Alex Martelli wrote:
>  My job responsibilities in the field of cluster
> management software push me to think all the time about the harshest
> and most unlikely failure modes and how best to ensure they're caught
> and dealt with...

that sounds like a good topic for a bayPIGgies talk.



_______________________________________________
Baypiggies mailing list
Baypiggies at python.org
To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080228/a811e8eb/attachment.htm 

From doug at apley.com  Thu Feb 28 20:36:54 2008
From: doug at apley.com (Douglas Sims)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:36:54 -0600
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
In-Reply-To: <736728.82682.qm@web50207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <736728.82682.qm@web50207.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BDCB2528-7C88-4006-9F9B-ADB50608FC17@apley.com>


+1

I'd like to hear that talk also.

While I haven't been able to attend a meeting in quite a while, I do  
watch and appreciate the videos on YouTube/Google Video (as well as a  
lot of other Google TechTalks)


Douglas Sims
Doug at Apley.com



On Feb 28, 2008, at 1:20 PM, Joel VanderKwaak wrote:

> I'd be interested learning more as well, as I face similar  
> challenges managing distributed jobs at a geophysics company (using  
> a hand-rolled python-based framework ;) )
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: jim stockford <jim at well.com>
> To: Alex Martelli <aleax at google.com>
> Cc: BayPiggies <baypiggies at python.org>
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 11:09:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
>
>
> On Feb 28, 2008, at 10:45 AM, Alex Martelli wrote:
> >  My job responsibilities in the field of cluster
> > management software push me to think all the time about the harshest
> > and most unlikely failure modes and how best to ensure they're  
> caught
> > and dealt with...
>
> that sounds like a good topic for a bayPIGgies talk.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080228/5cb790f3/attachment.htm 

From cappy2112 at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 20:49:51 2008
From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:49:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using Google translate web page programmaticaly
Message-ID: <8249c4ac0802281149x7cc16fd2p647baaac2973a1b2@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,


Have any Baypiggies used the Google translate web page programmaticaly?

I wish to access this url
   * http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=ja|en
    (where the from language and to language may vary from request to request)
   * submit a text string to be translated
   * retrieve the translation or status indicating the translation was
not possible.


If anyone with some web  programming experience have some information
on how to do this from Python, please reply.


Thanks

From glen at glenjarvis.com  Thu Feb 28 16:25:10 2008
From: glen at glenjarvis.com (Glen Jarvis)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 07:25:10 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] What is destructor expected behavior?
In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0802271332l26e1c860r56a4490b898b4845@mail.gmail.com>
References: <039B304D-F8CB-4084-B8FD-FC2D35875CBD@glenjarvis.com>
	<55dc209b0802271332l26e1c860r56a4490b898b4845@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F68B2F3F-39A3-43D9-8F21-3CB1B97F21BC@glenjarvis.com>

Alex,

     This is awesome! Thanks for letting me know about the atexit  
module. I don't need a guarantee that the program will exit properly  
if it is killed. I just need the program to "normally" do some clean- 
up in a predictable manner.

     This library works perfectly (although I need to do some  
redesign work to make this fit cleanly in my model).

     Regardless, I greatly appreciate the help. That's awesome. =)  I  
hope your meeting went well =)


Cheers,



Glen
--
415-680-3964
glen at glenjarvis.com
http://www.glenjarvis.com

"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." -M. Gandhi


On Feb 27, 2008, at 1:32 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 12:08 PM, Glen Jarvis <glen at glenjarvis.com>  
> wrote:
>>
>> Summary: Can I assume, 100% of the time, that a destructor is  
>> called before
>> a program ends?
>
> No (reference loops for example inhibit that).
>
>> If not, what is the design pattern to "time" issues in Python  
>> automatically
>> at program begin time/end time? Futher granularity into the object  
>> level
>> would be very helpful and preferred.
>
> See http://docs.python.org/lib/module-atexit.html for a way to to
> ALMOST this; however, for a sufficiently hard crash of a program, no
> such guarantee can be offered in-process (in Python's atexit case, the
> lack of guarantee also applies to program-killed-by-signal and
> os._exit calls, but even if you could bypass those sufficiently hard
> crashes would STILL invalidate the guarantee, e.g. kill -9 ENSURES no
> more code in the harshy-killed process will run).  The architecture
> pattern that may help with that issue is to have a separate "watchdog
> process" that detects whether the target process is alive or dead
> (exactly how best to do that varies by operating system, since the
> detection depends on services the OS is providing to your processes):
> that might trigger some code to run no matter how harshly and abruptly
> the target process dies (however you will need to run the watchdog on
> separate hardware if you also want to catch cases in which the whole
> machine running the target process suddenly loses power, so its OS
> also dies with no chance of recovery -- etc, etc).
>
> So, in brief, it depends on the level of guarantee you need...
>
> Alex


From bsergean at gmail.com  Thu Feb 28 22:31:22 2008
From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 13:31:22 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using Google translate web page programmaticaly
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0802281149x7cc16fd2p647baaac2973a1b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0802281149x7cc16fd2p647baaac2973a1b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1621f9fa0802281331s12a6e2eduf736854af62d98a7@mail.gmail.com>

I think that's what http://www.nongnu.org/libtranslate/ provide.

I onced tried to automatically translate po files fetching translation
using libtranslate (for testing). The "full of bug" script is
attached. It used a python library I forgot to open the po files.

Benjamin.

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Tony Cappellini <cappy2112 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
>  Have any Baypiggies used the Google translate web page programmaticaly?
>
>  I wish to access this url
>    * http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=ja|en
>     (where the from language and to language may vary from request to request)
>    * submit a text string to be translated
>    * retrieve the translation or status indicating the translation was
>  not possible.
>
>
>  If anyone with some web  programming experience have some information
>  on how to do this from Python, please reply.
>
>
>  Thanks
>  _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: esperando.py
Type: text/x-python
Size: 6527 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080228/bce8944f/attachment.py 

From ml at slide.com  Thu Feb 28 23:15:48 2008
From: ml at slide.com (Mary Lee Stephens)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 14:15:48 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baypiggies] Python Developer for Slide.com
Message-ID: <6680158.913121204236948901.JavaMail.root@calculon>

HI,

I would like to post this postion on Baypiggies.  


Senior Engineer Server-side 

Slide is building a large scalable service for delivering dynamic content over the web. We are looking for an experienced server engineer to join our small but rapidly growing team who will thrive in a startup environment while creating software used by millions of people every day. 

Slide.com 
Slide is the largest personal media network in the world, reaching more than 117 million people each month, or nearly 14 percent of the global Internet audience. The service helps people express themselves and tell emotionally engaging stories through personalized photos and videos created on Slide.com and viewed anywhere on the web or on their desktop. Slide widgets -- including Slide Shows, Guestbooks, SkinFlix and FunPix -- are viewed by tens of millions of people every day on popular sites like MySpace, Facebook, Bebo, Hi5, Xanga, Tagged and Blogger. Slide launched in 2005 and was founded by PayPal co-founder Max Levchin 

Requirements 

? You should have experience developing server software in Python or some other interpreted dynamically typed language. 
? You have a detailed understanding of using Unix to implement a large server application: networking, memory, storage and concurrency. 
? You possess knowledge of web service technologies and protocols (Linux, MySQL, Apache, REST, XML, Ajax, etc...) 
? You believe that an appreciation for elegant algorithms and data structures is compatible with pragmatism and getting cool things done. 
? You feel comfortable with asynchronous network programming, server frameworks, distributed systems, fault tolerance, and scalability. 
? You have a B.S. in Computer Science or related field. 


To apply include, in plain text or HTML, your resume and solution to the following: 
In your favorite programming language, write a program to read a muliple line text file and write the N longest lines to a new file. Where N and the file to be read are specified on the command line. 



-- 
Mary Lee Stephens
Technical Recruiter
Slide, Inc.
ml at slide.com
415-302-3767


From DOBrien at LeapFrog.com  Fri Feb 29 06:04:35 2008
From: DOBrien at LeapFrog.com (Dennis O'Brien)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:04:35 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing backward
	compatibility
Message-ID: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>

Hi,

I hope this is on-topic.

I have a project (C++ code) that will soon be complete, or at least,
1.0.  Other developers will be using this API and library while
development on 1.1, etc., continues.  All future releases of this
library need to be backward compatible with games built against 1.0 of
the API.

Our team has a wide range of C++ expertise, and we've already discovered
some subtle ways to break backward compatiliby in C++.

Does anyone know of a solution using Python to test backward
compatibility of C++ classes in header files?

The closest thing I've found for parsing C++ code in Python is GCC-XML.
http://www.gccxml.org/HTML/Index.html

It looks like a good start for building a compatibility tester, but
before I go down this road, I thought it would be wise to ask people
wiser than myself.

Ultimately I'd like to integrate this with Buildbot so that every commit
is tested for compatibility with the 1.0 API.

thanks,
Dennis

From bdbaddog at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 06:47:20 2008
From: bdbaddog at gmail.com (William Deegan)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:47:20 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing backward
	compatibility
In-Reply-To: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
References: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
Message-ID: <8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>

Dennis,

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Dennis O'Brien <DOBrien at leapfrog.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I hope this is on-topic.
>
> I have a project (C++ code) that will soon be complete, or at least,
> 1.0.  Other developers will be using this API and library while
> development on 1.1, etc., continues.  All future releases of this
> library need to be backward compatible with games built against 1.0 of
> the API.
>
> Our team has a wide range of C++ expertise, and we've already discovered
> some subtle ways to break backward compatiliby in C++.
>
> Does anyone know of a solution using Python to test backward
> compatibility of C++ classes in header files?


Not necessarily a python solution, but..
Can you use cppunit to craft the suite of tests?
Also I think boost has a c++ parser, and there's a python layer for boost.
(Though I'm not sure it hooks into the boost c++ parser).

-Bill

>
>
> The closest thing I've found for parsing C++ code in Python is GCC-XML.
> http://www.gccxml.org/HTML/Index.html
>
> It looks like a good start for building a compatibility tester, but
> before I go down this road, I thought it would be wise to ask people
> wiser than myself.
>
> Ultimately I'd like to integrate this with Buildbot so that every commit
> is tested for compatibility with the 1.0 API.
>
> thanks,
> Dennis
> _______________________________________________
> Baypiggies mailing list
> Baypiggies at python.org
> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080228/4da446c1/attachment.htm 

From drewp at bigasterisk.com  Fri Feb 29 06:59:09 2008
From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula)
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:59:09 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing
	backward	compatibility
In-Reply-To: <8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
	<8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C79F2D.8000305@bigasterisk.com>

William Deegan wrote:

> Not necessarily a python solution, but..
> Can you use cppunit to craft the suite of tests?
> Also I think boost has a c++ parser, and there's a python layer for boost.
> (Though I'm not sure it hooks into the boost c++ parser).
> 

Another one that might help is synopsis:

   http://synopsis.fresco.org/

I looked into GCC-XML at one point, but I think it only does prototypes. 
I wanted the whole parse tree, so I could look for where people called 
functions, a la cscope. Ideally, I'd have a python interface to the 
cscope database :)

From kelly at nttmcl.com  Fri Feb 29 09:23:19 2008
From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:23:19 +0900
Subject: [Baypiggies] Using Google translate web page programmaticaly
In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0802281149x7cc16fd2p647baaac2973a1b2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8249c4ac0802281149x7cc16fd2p647baaac2973a1b2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47C7C0F7.7080301@nttmcl.com>

Tony Cappellini wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 
> Have any Baypiggies used the Google translate web page programmaticaly?
> 
> I wish to access this url
>    * http://translate.google.com/translate_t?langpair=ja|en
>     (where the from language and to language may vary from request to request)
>    * submit a text string to be translated
>    * retrieve the translation or status indicating the translation was
> not possible.
> 

   I realize this is the opposite direction from what you asked, but 
whenever I need English to Japanese translations, I just download Jim 
Breen's edict dictionary file and use the following script:

     import re

     def stripAnnotations((ja, en)):
	ja = re.sub('(?u)\s*\[.*\]\s*', '', ja)
         en = re.sub('\s*\(.*\)\s*', '', en)
	return (en, ja)

     e2j = dict((
              stripAnnotations(line.decode('euc-jp').split('/')[:2])
              for line in open('edict').readlines() ))

     def translateE2J(s):
	return ''.join(filter(None, map(e2j.get, s.split())))

   I've found this works just as well as, if not better than, Google 
Translate or Babblefish(*).  I suspect the same technique will work for 
Japanese to English translation too, once you get the minor issue of 
word-splitting solved.

   Kelly


(*) Assuming you are trying to produce entertaining jibberish, which I
     assume you are.

** This entire post is tongue-in-cheek.  Seriously, though, don't be
    cheap: hire a professional to do your translations.  You'll be glad
    you did.

From bsergean at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 18:32:53 2008
From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:32:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing backward
	compatibility
In-Reply-To: <47C79F2D.8000305@bigasterisk.com>
References: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
	<8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C79F2D.8000305@bigasterisk.com>
Message-ID: <1621f9fa0802290932w5265a4f9qacd639fb76c1f8ed@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Drew Perttula <drewp at bigasterisk.com> wrote:
> William Deegan wrote:
>
>  > Not necessarily a python solution, but..
>  > Can you use cppunit to craft the suite of tests?
>  > Also I think boost has a c++ parser, and there's a python layer for boost.
>  > (Though I'm not sure it hooks into the boost c++ parser).
>  >
>
>  Another one that might help is synopsis:
>
>    http://synopsis.fresco.org/
>
>  I looked into GCC-XML at one point, but I think it only does prototypes.
>  I wanted the whole parse tree, so I could look for where people called
>  functions, a la cscope. Ideally, I'd have a python interface to the
>  cscope database :)
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>


I think Qt uses a method that prevent backward compatibility breaking,
by having
two interfaces for each class. One is the public one that do not
change, and that contains a pointer to the private one, where changes
goes on. I think this is a well known technique but I cannot find any
reference on the web about it. Their code is open source so you might
have a look at it. Another technique is to use C wrapper that does
stuff with your C++ objects but you lose the power of C++...


Benjamin.

From chad.netzer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 18:37:01 2008
From: chad.netzer at gmail.com (Chad Netzer)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:37:01 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing backward
	compatibility
In-Reply-To: <1621f9fa0802290932w5265a4f9qacd639fb76c1f8ed@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
	<8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C79F2D.8000305@bigasterisk.com>
	<1621f9fa0802290932w5265a4f9qacd639fb76c1f8ed@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a14a87410802290937t12c53fd7nbac5836b273b377a@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Benjamin Sergeant <bsergean at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  I think Qt uses a method that prevent backward compatibility breaking,
>  by having
>  two interfaces for each class. One is the public one that do not
>  change, and that contains a pointer to the private one, where changes
>  goes on. I think this is a well known technique but I cannot find any
>  reference on the web about it.

It's called the 'pimpl' idiom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpl

From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 19:36:32 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:36:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
Message-ID: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>


    I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
    Please reply if so.
jim


From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 19:43:45 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:43:45 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] what to do for our March meeting?
Message-ID: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>


    I've given up on getting a speaker for our March 13 meeting
for several reasons (noted below as a postscript as they
probably don't really matter much).

    so the question is what to do?
* have a meet and greet and perhaps talk out possible future
talks or other local python community issues.
* cancel the meeting.
* other....

    Please reply
with thanks,
jim

PS:
* i've been walking too close to the edge: i should have
several meetings definitely planned in advance but have
none--i'll address this is a separate post.
* pycon is taking people away during the meeting week.
* though my efforts are admittedly tepid, those i've made
have failed to yield someone able to speak on march 13
(some will be at pycon, others have other reasons).


From spmcinerney at hotmail.com  Fri Feb 29 19:51:02 2008
From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:51:02 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] what to do for our March meeting?
In-Reply-To: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
References: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
Message-ID: <BAY111-W1771C2627E903035C6D4AAA0140@phx.gbl>


At least push the date to after PyCon?
_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080229/72d23361/attachment.htm 

From wescpy at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:01:17 2008
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:01:17 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] what to do for our March meeting?
In-Reply-To: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
References: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
Message-ID: <78b3a9580802291101x26ebb5e9jac949a866d07afdc@mail.gmail.com>

>    so the question is what to do?
> * have a meet and greet and perhaps talk out possible future
> talks or other local python community issues.
> * cancel the meeting.
> * other....


in the past, we have done:

- newbies nite
- meet-n-greet (sometimes combined with newbies nite)
- moved the meeting 1 week later
- recruiters nite -- hiring mgrs and recruiters allowed to take the
stage for X minutes each, then collect resumes at the end
- with a smaller group, met at a dining establishment and had a late
dinner with conversation

but, it is rare to cancel meetings.  we used to do it more regularly
during the early days of the group, but it's just not a common
occurrence after 2001since enough Python interest has developed since
then where we've always had a "group" of ppl willing to meet.

thanks again for all your help in organizing the meetings! you're
doing a much better job that i had in the past!  :-)

cheers,
-wesley

From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 20:04:59 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:04:59 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] what to do for our March meeting?
In-Reply-To: <BAY111-W1771C2627E903035C6D4AAA0140@phx.gbl>
References: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
	<BAY111-W1771C2627E903035C6D4AAA0140@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <842cee825b7e7beb3be10c5ac05460d6@well.com>


    pycon occurs march 13 to march 21, which covers both
our regular thursday as well as the thursday following
(i.e. the second thursday and also the third thursday).
    my reaction to looking at the calendar was as i suggested:
meet and greet or cancel or some other focus on march 13.
    but that's just me.


On Feb 29, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Stephen McInerney wrote:

>  At least push the date to after?PyCon?
>
> Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, 
> we give. Learn more. 

From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 20:14:28 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:14:28 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] what to do for our March meeting?
In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580802291101x26ebb5e9jac949a866d07afdc@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ea4e11e7021a2b9343fc5daa1d3b176a@well.com>
	<78b3a9580802291101x26ebb5e9jac949a866d07afdc@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4b7ec8b24a27c846546639e9bacc59f9@well.com>


    thanks for the kind words, wesley.
    personally i'm in favor of meet and greet with an
eye to discussing topics for future meetings.
    (again personally: ) i'm not in favor of cancelling.
    i think it will not be possible to do a good job in
getting snippets together or preparing an effective
night for newbies. i could be wrong, i often am.


On Feb 29, 2008, at 11:01 AM, wesley chun wrote:

>>    so the question is what to do?
>> * have a meet and greet and perhaps talk out possible future
>> talks or other local python community issues.
>> * cancel the meeting.
>> * other....
>
>
> in the past, we have done:
>
> - newbies nite
> - meet-n-greet (sometimes combined with newbies nite)
> - moved the meeting 1 week later
> - recruiters nite -- hiring mgrs and recruiters allowed to take the
> stage for X minutes each, then collect resumes at the end
> - with a smaller group, met at a dining establishment and had a late
> dinner with conversation
>
> but, it is rare to cancel meetings.  we used to do it more regularly
> during the early days of the group, but it's just not a common
> occurrence after 2001since enough Python interest has developed since
> then where we've always had a "group" of ppl willing to meet.
>
> thanks again for all your help in organizing the meetings! you're
> doing a much better job that i had in the past!  :-)
>
> cheers,
> -wesley
>


From daryl.spitzer at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:12:26 2008
From: daryl.spitzer at gmail.com (Daryl Spitzer)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:12:26 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
Message-ID: <fbf2758a0802291112l15a80954n558372f07ff53764@mail.gmail.com>

I'm going.  (For details, see
http://yacitus.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-going-to-pycon.html.)  I would
enjoy giving a brief presentation on April 10th.

--
Daryl Spitzer


On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>     Please reply if so.
>  jim
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:35:32 2008
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:35:32 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <fbf2758a0802291112l15a80954n558372f07ff53764@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
	<fbf2758a0802291112l15a80954n558372f07ff53764@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40802291135q5bf2f57fo9906a0d9759fdcbb@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds good.  I'm going.  I could talk for a few minutes.

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Daryl Spitzer <daryl.spitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm going.  (For details, see
>  http://yacitus.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-going-to-pycon.html.)  I would
>  enjoy giving a brief presentation on April 10th.
>
>  --
>  Daryl Spitzer
>
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>  >
>  >     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>  >  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>  >  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>  >     Please reply if so.
>  >  jim
>  >
>  >  _______________________________________________
>  >  Baypiggies mailing list
>  >  Baypiggies at python.org
>  >  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  >  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>  >
>  _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>

From echerlin at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:40:51 2008
From: echerlin at gmail.com (Edward Cherlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:40:51 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
Message-ID: <e574f6eb0802291140t740efa36y1a2fd56d44946eb9@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I'll have some stories.

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>     Please reply if so.
>  jim
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>



-- 
Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay

From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 20:44:27 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:44:27 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <b8c6f6c40802291135q5bf2f57fo9906a0d9759fdcbb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
	<fbf2758a0802291112l15a80954n558372f07ff53764@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8c6f6c40802291135q5bf2f57fo9906a0d9759fdcbb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2079a1e9d9b7a4db350b2bdbb0c4a822@well.com>


you're on, too, charles, and with thanks.
got any idea what you'll talk about? no need
to commit, of course.
jim

On Feb 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Charles Merriam wrote:

> Sounds good.  I'm going.  I could talk for a few minutes.
>
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Daryl Spitzer 
> <daryl.spitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm going.  (For details, see
>>  http://yacitus.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-going-to-pycon.html.)  I would
>>  enjoy giving a brief presentation on April 10th.
>>
>>  --
>>  Daryl Spitzer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>>>  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>>>  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>>>     Please reply if so.
>>>  jim
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Baypiggies mailing list
>>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Baypiggies mailing list
>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>


From jim at well.com  Fri Feb 29 20:53:03 2008
From: jim at well.com (jim stockford)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:53:03 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <e574f6eb0802291140t740efa36y1a2fd56d44946eb9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
	<e574f6eb0802291140t740efa36y1a2fd56d44946eb9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <579403e3541dfe0940f8ce4f0ac0be95@well.com>


thank you, ed. let us know as your
focus develops.

On Feb 29, 2008, at 11:40 AM, Edward Cherlin wrote:

> Yes, I'll have some stories.
>
> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>
>>     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>>  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>>  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>>     Please reply if so.
>>  jim
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Baypiggies mailing list
>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Edward Cherlin
> End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
> http://www.EarthTreasury.org/
> "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay
>


From charles.merriam at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:52:53 2008
From: charles.merriam at gmail.com (Charles Merriam)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:52:53 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] call for post-pycon tales for the April meeting
In-Reply-To: <2079a1e9d9b7a4db350b2bdbb0c4a822@well.com>
References: <82a5a858fd6a4ae9c6b1790830f55bd3@well.com>
	<fbf2758a0802291112l15a80954n558372f07ff53764@mail.gmail.com>
	<b8c6f6c40802291135q5bf2f57fo9906a0d9759fdcbb@mail.gmail.com>
	<2079a1e9d9b7a4db350b2bdbb0c4a822@well.com>
Message-ID: <b8c6f6c40802291152y211ace23i322b52b92a24bbcd@mail.gmail.com>

I could do a "current buzzwords" talk.   It could be fun to try a
'cloud and stick figure' talk for whatever sessions I attend.

Alternately, I could take a larger chunk of the meeting and give a
"programming the XO" more depth oriented speech similar to the one I'm
giving at PyCon.

Is there a second local Python group?  I feel like I'm monopolizing this one.

Charles




On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:44 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>
>  you're on, too, charles, and with thanks.
>  got any idea what you'll talk about? no need
>  to commit, of course.
>  jim
>
>
>
>  On Feb 29, 2008, at 11:35 AM, Charles Merriam wrote:
>
>  > Sounds good.  I'm going.  I could talk for a few minutes.
>  >
>  > On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 11:12 AM, Daryl Spitzer
>  > <daryl.spitzer at gmail.com> wrote:
>  >> I'm going.  (For details, see
>  >>  http://yacitus.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-going-to-pycon.html.)  I would
>  >>  enjoy giving a brief presentation on April 10th.
>  >>
>  >>  --
>  >>  Daryl Spitzer
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 10:36 AM, jim stockford <jim at well.com> wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>     I'm hoping that some of you who are going to pycon
>  >>>  will be willing to recount your adventures to the rest
>  >>>  of us at the april 10 bayPIGgies meeting.
>  >>>     Please reply if so.
>  >>>  jim
>  >>>
>  >>>  _______________________________________________
>  >>>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  >>>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  >>>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  >>>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>  >>>
>  >>  _______________________________________________
>  >>  Baypiggies mailing list
>  >>  Baypiggies at python.org
>  >>  To change your subscription options or unsubscribe:
>  >>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies
>  >>
>  >
>
>

From macambira at gmail.com  Fri Feb 29 20:53:25 2008
From: macambira at gmail.com (Tiago Macambira)
Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 11:53:25 -0800
Subject: [Baypiggies] C++ parsing in Python for testing backward
	compatibility
In-Reply-To: <a14a87410802290937t12c53fd7nbac5836b273b377a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BE1590B3E7AEF54D9494467516DDC4DD0100A3E1@emw2k03ml04.LeapFrog.Local>
	<8540148a0802282147l7547049bwf88bd88a916145bb@mail.gmail.com>
	<47C79F2D.8000305@bigasterisk.com>
	<1621f9fa0802290932w5265a4f9qacd639fb76c1f8ed@mail.gmail.com>
	<a14a87410802290937t12c53fd7nbac5836b273b377a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d4d35da20802291153k7dc0cb3bu9f8ebfefc5bbda52@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Chad Netzer <chad.netzer at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 29, 2008 at 9:32 AM, Benjamin Sergeant <bsergean at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >  I think Qt uses a method that prevent backward compatibility breaking,
> >  by having
> >  two interfaces for each class.
>


> It's called the 'pimpl' idiom:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpl


You can read more about that elsewhere
[1]<http://www.gotw.ca/publications/mill04.htm>,
[2] <http://www.gotw.ca/publications/mill05.htm>,
[3]<http://www.gotw.ca/gotw/028.htm>,
and [4] <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PimplIdiom>.

Cheers.
Tiago Alves Macambira
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20080229/274ba515/attachment.htm