From ken at seehart.com Wed Apr 4 02:39:05 2007 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 17:39:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: <20070329165046.6f75fbb0@tinker.homenetwork> References: <20070328194132.42dbab8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <200703290527.l2T5RVbD002065@b.mail.sonic.net> <20070328224211.197127bf@psyche.corp.google.com> <20070329165046.6f75fbb0@tinker.homenetwork> Message-ID: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> Anyone know how to configure subversion to make a commit automatically update the contents of a particular file with the revision number? For example... /svn_revision.py:/ svn_revision = 2213 The usage would be something like: from svn_revision import svn_revision print "This is FooPy revision", svn_revision -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070403/da3bf541/attachment.html From max at theslimmers.net Wed Apr 4 03:33:06 2007 From: max at theslimmers.net (Max Slimmer) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:33:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> Message-ID: <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> you can add keywords like $Revision: $ what I do is put a line like _version = "$Revision: 15490 $" the 15490 was supplied on doing the commit. In order to get it to work on svn you need to set properties on the file to accept specific keywords or it is possible to set it at the config level search for keywords and svn You can use the special keywords like Id, Author ... similar to cvs, the differance is that you need to enable the properties on svn. http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s02.html max _____ From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Ken Seehart Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:39 PM To: baypiggies at python.org Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging Anyone know how to configure subversion to make a commit automatically update the contents of a particular file with the revision number? For example... svn_revision.py: svn_revision = 2213 The usage would be something like: from svn_revision import svn_revision print "This is FooPy revision", svn_revision -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070403/d2a5d181/attachment.htm From wescpy at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 03:51:07 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 18:51:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> References: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704031851n82d3148r6e25a0eef6ade23a@mail.gmail.com> > In order to get it to work on svn you need to set properties on the file to > accept specific keywords > > You can use the special keywords like Id, Author ... similar to cvs, the > differance is that you need to enable the properties on svn. > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s02.html in particular, here is my incantation for enabling the "Id" RCS/CVS keyword on file xxx.py: $ svn propset svn:keywords Id xxx.py -wesley From DennisR at dair.com Wed Apr 4 04:39:39 2007 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 19:39:39 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python runs amok at Google In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580704031851n82d3148r6e25a0eef6ade23a@mail.gmail.com > References: <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070403193733.00bff3d8@localhost> A python was loose at Google NY: http://valleywag.com/tech/rumormonger/python-on-the-loose-at-google-ny-248978.php --------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com | --------------------------------- From pablos at wefi.com Wed Apr 4 04:16:13 2007 From: pablos at wefi.com (Pablos) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 19:16:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python/Django Jobs at WeFi Message-ID: <68097698-AEF8-4649-87B1-26709BC1AEE0@wefi.com> [I read the baypiggies job posting guidelines, I think I'm complying!] About Me I'm Pablos, and I'm looking for coders for my team. You will talk to me about this job, not a recruiter. If this doesn't sound like the job for you, please introduce me to the most stellar coders you've ever worked with. Email me directly: pablos at wefi.com. About Us Who really cares about Enterprise B2B Solutions crap? Come help us build something actual people can use. We are a startup getting close to launching the first version of our product which makes using Wi-Fi a lot easier and more useful. We are based in the Bay Area with an R&D team in Tel Aviv. We are starting a new web development group in the U.S. and need some stellar talent. Our front end stuff is written in Python using Django. About You This will be a small team, and each member will have to be very experienced with building and deploying web applications. You?ve written other software, but mostly web apps, probably with Java. You wish your garbage collector would free PHP once and for all. You?ve checked out Rails or Django and have maybe even used one of them for a project or two. The idea of building entirely new apps from scratch in a very ?agile? fashion sounds delightful. Ideal Qualifications 3+ years developing web apps in an object oriented framework, preferably with some Java. MySQL, Python, Django, Linux, & Subversion fu. AJAX, HTML, CSS, XML, REST, SOAP, ABCs, 123s, 000110, F=MA This is a job for someone who is highly capable of taking a project and running with it. You need to be able to handle the full life cycle of an application. You will need great communication skills, self motivation, and a burning desire to ship code. Location West Coast, but we?re flexible. Compensation Competitive Salary, Health Insurance, Stock Options From bsergean at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 17:34:21 2007 From: bsergean at gmail.com (Benjamin Sergeant) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:34:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580704031851n82d3148r6e25a0eef6ade23a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> <78b3a9580704031851n82d3148r6e25a0eef6ade23a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1621f9fa0704040834o23f734dam8051293d2893d97b@mail.gmail.com> And as it's super fun to type here are some aliases that will save you some typing :) alias svnrcs='svn propset svn:keywords Id' alias svnexec='svn propset svn:executable ON' Benjamin. On 4/3/07, wesley chun wrote: > > In order to get it to work on svn you need to set properties on the file to > > accept specific keywords > > > > You can use the special keywords like Id, Author ... similar to cvs, the > > differance is that you need to enable the properties on svn. > > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s02.html > > > in particular, here is my incantation for enabling the "Id" RCS/CVS > keyword on file xxx.py: > > $ svn propset svn:keywords Id xxx.py > > -wesley > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From kenobi at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 21:44:01 2007 From: kenobi at gmail.com (Rick Kwan) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 12:44:01 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> References: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: A lot of my files begin life with this incantation: __SVNtags__ = """ $URL$ $Date$ $Rev$ """ When you have multiple branches, the URL will tell you the name of this file plus the branch it is found in. --Rick Kwan On 4/3/07, Max Slimmer wrote: > > > you can add keywords like $Revision: $ > what I do is put a line like > _version = "$Revision: 15490 $" > the 15490 was supplied on doing the commit. > In order to get it to work on svn you need to set properties on the file to > accept specific keywords or it is possible to set it at the config level > search for keywords and svn > > You can use the special keywords like Id, Author ... similar to cvs, the > differance is that you need to enable the properties on svn. > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s02.html > > max > > > ________________________________ > From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] > On Behalf Of Ken Seehart > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:39 PM > To: baypiggies at python.org > Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging > > > Anyone know how to configure subversion to make a commit automatically > update the contents of a particular file with the revision number? > > For example... > svn_revision.py: > svn_revision = 2213 > > > The usage would be something like: > from svn_revision import svn_revision > > print "This is FooPy revision", svn_revision > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 5 02:12:59 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:12:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] [JOB] VMware Job Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Hayley Charnaw (c) Date: Apr 4, 2007 5:11 PM Subject: Please Post VMware Job To: Shannon -jj Behrens Python Software Engineer - ESX Installation and Deployment VMware Location: Palo Alto, CA This R&D position resides in our Core Technologies Group and will be a part of our Console Operating System and Applications team. The engineer in this role will gain exposure to many parts of our core OS and our applications. As a result of this exposure, he/she will interface with many groups in and outside of R&D. Responsibilities: This position's primary role is in the design and implementation of software for ESX installation, deployment and distribution. Work will involve interaction with product management and will require work with releases of new operating system versions, driver updates, and building Red Hat Package Management (RPM) packages. Most of the coding will be in done in Python with some limited use of Perl and C. Requirements: BS in Computer Science or equivalent. Fluent in the use of Python and other scripting languages. Experienced in Linux administration and configuration. Experience with RPM's. Experience building a Linux distribution or Linux rescue disk is preferred C and C++ programming is desirable. Experience with GTK or Glade a plus. Experience with YUM a plus. Interested parties please contact Hayley Charnaw hcharnaw at vmware.com or 650-475-5377 From rbradley at projectway.com Wed Apr 4 02:23:10 2007 From: rbradley at projectway.com (Rand Bradley) Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 17:23:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: EMTECH SIG Next Week: One Laptop Per Child In-Reply-To: <3a3f04f50704031720ja35ff52x47e78e3458e15ca5@mail.gmail.com> References: <3a3f04f50704031720ja35ff52x47e78e3458e15ca5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3a3f04f50704031723l70d94e1au42d60ec1b7dd8adf@mail.gmail.com> All here is the announcement for Ivan's talk next week at the EMTECH-SIG. If you plan to attend, the meeting is free to BayPiggies members. Just mention you are from BayPiggies and the SDForum SIG non-member fee will be waived. I hope to see you at the event. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rand Bradley Date: Apr 3, 2007 5:20 PM Subject: EMTECH SIG Next Week: One Laptop Per Child To: SDForum EMTECH-SIG Next week we have Ivan Krsti? from the One Laptop per Child (OLPC) project! I saw Ivan give a keynote at PyCon 2007, and was so impressed with the technology and project goals I invited Ivan to tell the EMTECH-SIG about OLPC. This should be an exceptional event! One Laptop per Child (http://www.laptop.org/) is a non-profit organization aiming to redefine learning and education for the world's children, by providing each child with a specially developed, innovative, and low-cost laptop. Ivan will introduce the background, motivation, and goals of the initiative, as well as the engineering and educational challenges it faces. The new laptop, called the "XO", is unlike any laptop ever built. The XO requires several hardware and software innovations to meet the unique and demanding challenges of the project. Designed to be small and light, yet the XO is rugged enough to withstand harsh environments. Each machine is a full-time wireless router designed to instantly create or join its own mesh network. The XO features a high-resolution (200DPI) reflective display designed for sunlight readability. In addition, XO has several power saving innovations and consumes less than 2 watts - less than a tenth of standard laptops. The XO is also hand-rechargeable when power is unavailable. Those are just some of the innovative features developed by the OLPC project. Come in April meeting to learn more about OLPC, the technology, challenges, goals, and how you might be able to participate. *Where: Cubberley Community Center, 4000 Middlefield Road, Palo Alto, Room H-1. Here's a link that gives directions to Cubberley: http://www.sdforum.org/p/l1.asp?SID=1&PID=324 **When: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 7:00 Registration, Pizza, networking, and small-talk 7:20 Introduction and announcements 7:30 - 9:00 *Ivan Krsti? Speaker Bio Ivan Krsti? is a software architect and researcher currently on leave from Harvard University. He is the director of security and information architecture at the One Laptop per Child project. Prior to joining OLPC, Ivan served as director of research at the Medical Informatics Laboratory at Zagreb Children's Hospital, developing software infrastructure for wide-scale digital health care. He is deeply involved in open source and free software, and specializes in architecture and security of large distributed systems. He has consulted on both matters for some of the largest sites on the Internet. See you next week! Bill, Peter, Janice, and Rand Thanks to our sponsors, IBM, El Dorado Ventures, and our newest sponsor Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman for their ongoing support. ---- If you have not done so already, we would like to encourage you to join the sdforum_emtech Yahoo Group. The EMTECH-SIG will discontinue posting meeting announcements to the former mailing list sometime in the future. If you would like to continue receiving meeting announcements, you can sign up at: Subscribe by email: sdforum_emergingtech-subscribe at yahoogroups.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070403/5810a92d/attachment.html From cappy2112 at gmail.com Wed Apr 4 19:47:25 2007 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 10:47:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd: [SVEvents] 4/11, A discussion of the 'One Laptop per Child Project' In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8249c4ac0704041047p536bef5eh7bbd528773c768ba@mail.gmail.com> Since this was discussed at the last BayPiggies meeting, I think there may be a few people interested in this. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: nancy_tubbs at fullcalendar.com Date: Apr 4, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: [SVEvents] 4/11, A discussion of the 'One Laptop per Child Project' To: SVEvents at yahoogroups.com Software Development Forum (SDForum) presents: A discussion of the 'One Laptop per Child Project' Wednesday, April 11, 7:00pm-9:00pm, Palo Alto MORE INFO: http://www.sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/CalendarEvent.aspx?CID=2116 One Laptop per Child (OLPC) project is a non-profit organization aiming to redefine learning and education for the world's children, by providing each child with a specially developed, innovative, and low-cost laptop. The speaker, Ivan Krstic, will introduce the background, motivation, and goals of the initiative, as well as the engineering and educational challenges it faces. Designed to be small and light, yet this laptop ("XO") is rugged enough to withstand harsh environments and the power it consumes is less than a tenth of standard laptops. Ivan Krstic is a software architect and researcher currently on leave from Harvard University. He is the director of security and information architecture at the One Laptop per Child project. See www.sdforum.org for details. DATE & TIME: Wednesday, April 11 7:00pm-9:00pm LOCATION: Cubberly Community Center, Room H-1 4000 Middlefield Road Palo Alto, CA, 94303 http://www.sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/Level1.aspx?pid=324&sid=6 COST & REGISTRATION: No Cost for SDForum Members; $15 for Non-Members. http://www.sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/CalendarEvent.aspx?CID=2116 MORE INFO: Website: http://www.sdforum.org/SDForum/Templates/CalendarEvent.aspx?CID=2116 Email: registrations at sdforum.org Phone: 408-414-5950 Contact: Kim Murray About Software Development Forum (SDForum): SDForum is the leading Silicon Valley software organization with deep ties to entrepreneurs, developers, venture capitalists, industry experts and major technology companies. With a 10,000-person reach, 2000 individual members and 20-30 events each month, SDForum is the single best source of information, education and connection for people seeking to build a business and career in Silicon Valley. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070404/c67b5b65/attachment.htm From lhawthorn at google.com Thu Apr 5 18:51:40 2007 From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 09:51:40 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 Message-ID: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, Next Tuesday, April 10th, Alex Martelli will present Python for Programmers as part of the Open Source Developers @ Google Speaker Series. All talks in this speaker series are open to the public; everyone is welcome and encouraged to attend. Refreshments will be served. If you would like to attend, please plan to arrive at Google any time after 6:30 PM and sign in at Building 42 reception. Alex's talk will begin promptly at 7 PM. There is no need to RSVP. Please feel free to pass this message along to anyone who may be interested. Cheers, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Open Source Program Office Google Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070405/fa4ba9e0/attachment.html From jim at well.com Fri Apr 6 05:53:49 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 20:53:49 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April 12 meeting at google Message-ID: <85c7404038ec91ff6cbce9205238ea21@well.com> On Thursday, April 12, at Google, Agenda-------------------times are flexible depending on snippets 7:30 to 8:15 snippets and Q &A from whoever wants to present them 8:15 to 8:40 open discussion planning newbies night 8:40 to 9:00 announcements, meet and greet. You all probably know of the two events earlier this coming week: * On Tuesday, April 10, at Google, Alex Martelli will present Python for Programmers (7 PM) * On Wednesday, April 11, at Cubberly Community Center, EMTECH presents Ivan Krstic presents One Laptop Per Child From donnamsnow at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 06:19:27 2007 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 21:19:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] [Job} Plone developer/template creator needed for occasional overflow work Message-ID: Hi, C Squared Enterprises has occasional overflow work for a Plone template developer with some Python background. Please send resume and your hourly rate. Best Regards, Donna M. Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminate your web http://www.csquaredtech.com From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 21:45:41 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:45:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] dispatching events Message-ID: Dear "More Effective Google", I'm looking for an event dispatch system, also known as a signal slots library. I need for my model to announce to the view when things have happened. I seem to remember Drew mentioning "py signals" or something like that years ago, but now I can't remember. What's the best thing? I'm tempted to use http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/439356, but I'm reluctant to use any code that has "except: pass" in it. It has to be quick and simple. It's for PyWeek, which ends tomorrow ;) Thanks, -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From chad.netzer at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 21:52:58 2007 From: chad.netzer at gmail.com (Chad Netzer) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 12:52:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] dispatching events In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/6/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Dear "More Effective Google", > > I'm looking for an event dispatch system, also known as a signal slots > library. I need for my model to announce to the view when things have > happened. I seem to remember Drew mentioning "py signals" or > something like that years ago, but now I can't remember. What's the > best thing? http://pydispatcher.sourceforge.net/ Won't say "best", but it has been around, is tested, etc. I'd prefer a dispatcher class instance, over a module, but I've made it work well for me. Frankly, this is yet another type of thing I'd like to see become a part of the Python distribution... Hope this helps. Chad From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 6 22:33:15 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 13:33:15 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] dispatching events In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/6/07, Chad Netzer wrote: > On 4/6/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > Dear "More Effective Google", > > > > I'm looking for an event dispatch system, also known as a signal slots > > library. I need for my model to announce to the view when things have > > happened. I seem to remember Drew mentioning "py signals" or > > something like that years ago, but now I can't remember. What's the > > best thing? > > http://pydispatcher.sourceforge.net/ > > Won't say "best", but it has been around, is tested, etc. I'd prefer > a dispatcher class instance, over a module, but I've made it work well > for me. > > Frankly, this is yet another type of thing I'd like to see become a > part of the Python distribution... > > Hope this helps. Yep, that's what I'm looking for. Thanks! -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From ken at seehart.com Mon Apr 9 01:12:04 2007 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 16:12:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging In-Reply-To: References: <4612F3A9.5020700@seehart.com> <200704040133.l341X9Dq029937@a.mail.sonic.net> Message-ID: <461976C4.5090204@seehart.com> Thanks Rick, Max, and Dan. That's perfect. :-) - Ken Dan wrote: > check out the Keyword Substitution part of the manual: > > http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.advanced.props.special.keywords.html > > you have to set the svn:keywords property on the file. > > Dan Rick Kwan wrote: > A lot of my files begin life with this incantation: > __SVNtags__ = """ > $URL$ > $Date$ > $Rev$ > """ > When you have multiple branches, the URL will tell you the name of > this file plus the branch it is found in. > --Rick Kwan > > On 4/3/07, Max Slimmer wrote: > >> you can add keywords like $Revision: $ >> what I do is put a line like >> _version = "$Revision: 15490 $" >> the 15490 was supplied on doing the commit. >> In order to get it to work on svn you need to set properties on the file to >> accept specific keywords or it is possible to set it at the config level >> search for keywords and svn >> >> You can use the special keywords like Id, Author ... similar to cvs, the >> differance is that you need to enable the properties on svn. >> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/ch07s02.html >> >> max >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: baypiggies-bounces at python.org [mailto:baypiggies-bounces at python.org] >> On Behalf Of Ken Seehart >> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 5:39 PM >> To: baypiggies at python.org >> Subject: [Baypiggies] Subversion file tagging >> >> >> Anyone know how to configure subversion to make a commit automatically >> update the contents of a particular file with the revision number? >> >> For example... >> svn_revision.py: >> svn_revision = 2213 >> >> >> The usage would be something like: >> from svn_revision import svn_revision >> >> print "This is FooPy revision", svn_revision >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070408/8a04c383/attachment.htm From ohgarden at cox.net Mon Apr 9 23:29:55 2007 From: ohgarden at cox.net (Tom Michel) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 14:29:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] TurboGears Message-ID: <461AB053.2070004@cox.net> The TurboGears book by Mark Ramm, Kevin Dangoor, and Gigi Sayfan has received mixed reviews because of poor editing. Does anyone know of better alternate references? From mrbmahoney at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 16:51:06 2007 From: mrbmahoney at gmail.com (Brian Mahoney) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 07:51:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Dinner Announcement - Thursday, April 12, 6 pm Message-ID: <5538c19b0704100751n313f5f0eg6fe7ff059a8b5cf3@mail.gmail.com> For Thursday, April 12, I can coordinate a pre-meeting dinner in Mountain View, before the BayPIGgies meeting at Google . Restaurant reservations may be sent to my email until Thursday afternoon (earlier is better). We eat family-style, there are vegetarian and non-vegetarian dishes. Cost around $10 per person, including tax and tip. Bring cash, please. Start dinner at 6pm and I will keep things moving so that we finish and get everyone headed towards Google to complete sign-in before the 7:30 meeting start. The restaurant is Cafe Yulong in downtown Mountain View (650) 960-1677 743 W Dana Street, 1/2 block from Castro where Books, Inc is on the corner. Parking lots all around, but downtown Mountain View parking is still difficult. It is a slightly out of the ordinary Chinese restaurant. This link has a downtown map and additional information. http://www.mountainviewca.net/restaurants/cafeyulong.html I've made reservations under "Python" for 6pm Thursday. If you wish to join us for dinner please e-mail me by 3 pm Thursday (earlier is better) so I may confirm the headcount. From lhawthorn at google.com Tue Apr 10 18:01:28 2007 From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:01:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Venue Change and Registration Reminder Message-ID: <4869cee70704100901w4a8e2ff3j83b9c33fa43e5187@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, Unfortunately, our usual room in Building 43 is not available this week, so we'll be convening in Pretoria Tech Talk (2nd Flr, Building 46). Building 46 is directly across the street from the main campus at 1565 Charleston Rd. There will still be badges awaiting pre-registered attendees at reception. If you plan to attend, please register on the wiki by 5 PM on tomorrow, April 11th. http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings Cheers, LH -- Leslie Hawthorn Open Source Program Office Google Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070410/48df5ab7/attachment.html From aleaxit at gmail.com Tue Apr 10 20:09:28 2007 From: aleaxit at gmail.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:09:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] any interest in having a PSF/Python presence at "LinuxWorld's .org Pavillion" (in SF, Aug 6-9)? Message-ID: I just received a mail from IDG (the organizers of LinuxWorld) which I suspect they're sending out to all kinds of opensource people/organizations, and I was wondering if the PSF and/or local (Bay Area) Pythonistas are interested in taking advantage of this opportunity. If we do, then I'll gladly volunteer some time and work, but I'm not really the right kind of "organizing maven" to take point-position on this. So, any takers...? Here's what IDG just mailed me: """ LinuxWorld Conference & Expo August 6 - 9, 2007 Moscone Center San Francisco, CA Dear ALEX, Interested in LinuxWorld's .org Pavilion? Fill out the Application Form! LinuxWorld Conference & Expo is looking for exhibitors for the .org Pavilion, our free-of-charge exhibit area for free software and open source projects. We're looking for projects that produce great software and can host an informative, helpful booth for our attendees. This year, we will be hosting an "un-conference" theater area adjacent to the pavilion. If you would like a larger venue for works in progress, Q & A sessions, demonstrations, and media, it's there for you. Projects use LinuxWorld Conference & Expo for many reasons: to answer questions from possible new users, to distribute copies of software, to solicit donations, and to sell project merchandise. If you have participated in the .org Pavilion at previous shows, you still need to re-apply for it this time. To submit for the .org Pavilion, please click here [1]. Don't forget! Birds-of-a-Feather sessions are still available. Click here to submit. Please contact Alison McCormack with any questions (508) 988-7880. """ [1] The "click here" sends to (which also has a link for the submission of BoF sessions applications); the deadline for both kinds of applications is May 14 2007. Thanks, Alex From kelly at nttmcl.com Tue Apr 10 20:19:27 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:19:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Venue Change and Registration Reminder In-Reply-To: <4869cee70704100901w4a8e2ff3j83b9c33fa43e5187@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704100901w4a8e2ff3j83b9c33fa43e5187@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <461BD52F.1020406@nttmcl.com> Leslie Hawthorn wrote: > Hello everyone, > > Unfortunately, our usual room in Building 43 is not available this week, > so we'll be convening in Pretoria Tech Talk (2nd Flr, Building 46). > Building 46 is directly across the street from the main campus at 1565 > Charleston Rd. There will still be badges awaiting pre-registered > attendees at reception. > > If you plan to attend, please register on the wiki by 5 PM on tomorrow, > April 11th. http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings > > Cheers, > LH > Unfortunately, it appears the wiki is malfunctioning at the moment so no one can register. :( Kelly -- Kelly Yancey - kelly at nttmcl.com - kbyanc at posi.net From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Apr 11 00:17:53 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 15:17:53 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] captchas Message-ID: Anyone have any advice on captchas? I need to use one to protect account creation. This is in addition to email verification. Thanks, -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Apr 11 01:04:50 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:04:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] captchas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/10/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Anyone have any advice on captchas? I need to use one to protect > account creation. This is in addition to email verification. A co-worker filled me in on: http://svn.navi.cx/misc/trunk/pycaptcha/README Thanks! -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From Chris.Clark at ingres.com Wed Apr 11 01:15:03 2007 From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:15:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] captchas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <461C1A77.7020209@ingres.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On 4/10/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > >> Anyone have any advice on captchas? > A co-worker filled me in on: > > http://svn.navi.cx/misc/trunk/pycaptcha/README > On the advice front - try not to ignore blind (or limited sight) users :-) I've a friend who often has good cause to complain about web sites that are only for what he calls, "sighties" I'm not sure what is the best way to deal with blind users is though. The 2 alternatives I've come across are: 1. Manual - which is probably not a bad idea for the small number of users this will be required for, but is inconvenient even for the end user as they have a delay (and you may have to worry about spam'ing) 2. Audio - some image captchas have a fall back to an audio captcha. I'm conveniently ignoring the blind/deaf users who are using braille..... Chris From kelly at nttmcl.com Wed Apr 11 03:10:26 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:10:26 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] RSS reader+writer modules? Message-ID: <461C3582.5040408@nttmcl.com> Does anyone have any recommendations for decent RSS 2.0 reader+writer modules? I've found no shortage of modules for reading or writing, but have yet to find a single module that allows me to both read and write. What I'm looking for is one that lets me write a new RSS feed but then later read that same file and append additional entries to it. If I can't find a python module that does this, I'm thinking of resorting to either webstring with a RSS template (like in their examples), or PyRSS2Gen with a hack to stitch two separate RSS files into one to approximate appending. What do other piggies use? Thanks! Kelly From yginsburg at gmail.com Wed Apr 11 05:02:02 2007 From: yginsburg at gmail.com (Yuri Ginsburg) Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 20:02:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] captchas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3343b3d90704102002t219ed37byebd318382c46d88c@mail.gmail.com> Nice introductory example of Human Vertification Test can be found at: http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/440588 --yg On 4/10/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Anyone have any advice on captchas? I need to use one to protect > account creation. This is in addition to email verification. > > Thanks, > -jj > > -- > "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very > difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there > isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter > Deutsch > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- Yuri Ginsburg (YG10) From aahz at pythoncraft.com Wed Apr 11 16:45:14 2007 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:45:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] captchas In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070411144514.GA25404@panix.com> On Tue, Apr 10, 2007, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > Anyone have any advice on captchas? I need to use one to protect > account creation. This is in addition to email verification. What is your goal? Why not simply present a question with a text field to answer it? (Which would make your site accessible to blind people and people who use text browsers.) I had a recent experience with a captcha that totally pissed me off: I couldn't even read the damn thing, the colors were too close together. >From my POV, captchas are evile and should never be used. -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html From ken at seehart.com Wed Apr 11 20:30:37 2007 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 11:30:37 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Epoz alternatives? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <461D294D.9050609@seehart.com> Is Epoz the best content editor for plone? Are there other good ones to look at? I love Epoz, but here are my two biggest gripes anyway: * Copy/paste image fails (the pasted image disappears about 100ms after being pasted) * Editing tables sucks. There appears to be no way to insert rows or columns, and no way to cut/paste multiple cell (pasting puts all content inside the cell containing the cursor). Thanks, - Ken From aclark at aclark.net Wed Apr 11 20:45:00 2007 From: aclark at aclark.net (Alex Clark) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 14:45:00 -0400 Subject: [Baypiggies] Epoz alternatives? In-Reply-To: <461D294D.9050609@seehart.com> References: <461D294D.9050609@seehart.com> Message-ID: Ken, Plone has been shipping with Kupu for quite a while now (since 2.1?) There is also FCKEditor (for when you absolutely positively have to have an MS-Word style editor inside your o-wrap). I've used Kupu for editing tables and it works fairly well. The FCKEditor bundle for Plone is easy to install if you want to take it for a spin. HTH, Alex On 4/11/07, Ken Seehart wrote: > > Is Epoz the best content editor for plone? Are there other good ones to > look at? > > I love Epoz, but here are my two biggest gripes anyway: > > * Copy/paste image fails (the pasted image disappears about 100ms > after being pasted) > * Editing tables sucks. There appears to be no way to insert rows > or columns, and no way to cut/paste multiple cell (pasting puts > all content inside the cell containing the cursor). > > Thanks, > > - Ken > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- Alex Clark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070411/5f08ed9f/attachment.html From lhawthorn at google.com Thu Apr 12 22:22:37 2007 From: lhawthorn at google.com (Leslie Hawthorn) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:22:37 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] URGENTish -- Re: Venue Change and Registration Reminder Message-ID: <4869cee70704121322y175a1332k3dee576a6f041127@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, My apologies, we will be meeting in Building *44,* not building 46. I've corrected this information on the wiki. Cheers, LH On 4/10/07, Leslie Hawthorn wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > Unfortunately, our usual room in Building 43 is not available this week, > so we'll be convening in Pretoria Tech Talk (2nd Flr, Building 46). > Building 46 is directly across the street from the main campus at 1565 > Charleston Rd. There will still be badges awaiting pre-registered attendees > at reception. > > If you plan to attend, please register on the wiki by 5 PM on tomorrow, > April 11th. http://wiki.python.org/moin/BayPiggiesGoogleMeetings > > Cheers, > LH > > -- > Leslie Hawthorn > Open Source Program Office > Google Inc. -- Leslie Hawthorn Open Source Program Office Google Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070412/79129917/attachment.htm From wescpy at gmail.com Thu Apr 12 23:32:38 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:32:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] URGENTish -- Re: Venue Change and Registration Reminder In-Reply-To: <4869cee70704121322y175a1332k3dee576a6f041127@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704121322y175a1332k3dee576a6f041127@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704121432w4642435cxa8999a30ae2b0f36@mail.gmail.com> > My apologies, we will be meeting in Building *44,* not building 46. I've > corrected this information on the wiki. can someone update the front page so that we: 1) tell folks explicitly where the meeting will be tonite 2) get February's agenda off and replace it with April's? thx, -wesley From Chris.Clark at ingres.com Fri Apr 13 07:13:44 2007 From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:13:44 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - Unicode normalisation/normalization trick Message-ID: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> Here is the "barely a snippet, more of a reminder of the wealth of libraries that Python ships with", I showed this evening. jj told me that there is a similar piece of code in the cookbook, I've not checked it for fear of seeing a better explanation.... I've sent this mail in cp1252 encoding (almost latin1), if you can't see some of the special characters in it, try the html attachment in a browser instead. I needed to perform string comparisons so that: "o" == "?" would be considered true. I.e. lower case "O" matches lower case "O" with umlaut. I really wanted this to work with all decorated characters, "A acute", "A caret", ...... The unicodedate library has a normalisation function which allows normalisation to different forms. One of the forms decomposes a single decorated characters into surrogate pairs of the undecoratered character + the decorater. If you can strip the decorater off you end up with the undecoratered character. Simply encoding in 7 bit ascii (with an ignore unmappables) happens to do just that very thing. Viz.: >>> import unicodedata >>> test_str = u'Bj\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS}rk' >>> test_str u'Bj\xf6rk' >>> print test_str Bj?rk >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ) u'Bjo\u0308rk' >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', 'ignore') 'Bjork' Once converted you can perform comparisons, storage, or even convert back to Unicode :-) One word of caution, some characters won't decompose (for sensible reasons), this is really intended for decorated or accented characters. E.g.: >>> test_str = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE}' >>> test_str u'\xc6' >>> print test_str ? >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', 'ignore') '' I.e. u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE}' is already normalised (to NFKD). http://unicode.org is *the* place for all things Unicode but there are some sites around that are slightly more friendly for simple lookups, e.g. http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00f6/index.htm gives the name, picture (in case you do not have a suitable font installed) as well as a bunch of other truly useful information. Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070412/312c2dc2/attachment.html From zia at cruzio.com Fri Apr 13 10:43:47 2007 From: zia at cruzio.com (Doug Landauer) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 01:43:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - tdc, undent, let/IN, property2 In-Reply-To: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> Message-ID: <200f5417044fdeb1bbdbde216cd477e6@cruzio.com> The snippets I talked about at the 12 April meeting (plus a couple more) are in my weblog entry here: http://radio.weblogs.com/0100945/2007/04/12.html A few things I forgot to mention about my three-character date stamp: * I call the script "tdc" but I've forgotten what the "C" stood for. Maybe "Converter". * It's actually a six-character date-and-time stamp, with a one-second precision and a 26- or 52-year range (26 only if you're using it for filenames *and* you aren't using a case- sensitive filesystem). * I've been using it since 2001. * In its most frequently-used form, it's a (zsh) shell function, and I arranged to have my zsh call it before every prompt, and insert its output into every prompt. Available on request. * When I use it manually, it's usually just the 3-character date part, as a filename prefix. * A string sort on these is also a chronological sort. * Google for "gigo beH" to see my 2002/05/13 entry about it (it's the second result, today). About undent: * Google for "gigo undent" to see my February entry about that. I prefer the look of having a separator character, over the barer-looking form that is used with the library function that Drew mentioned (textwrap.dedent) and with the ASPN cookbook entry. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Chris Clark already sent out a message about the unicode/normalization snippet that he presented. Let me (DAL) just add this: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/ makes it pretty clear that "NFKD" is *not* an acronym; the NF stands for "Normalization Form", but the "KD" stands somehow for "Compatibility Decomposition". -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- # # Zach Collins posted a nice small snippet that allows you to # use a "let" syntax similar to what scheme or OCaml have: # "let = , # = # IN " # # The code snippet itself is tiny: class let: def __init__(self, **kwds): self.kwds = kwds def IN(self, func): return func(**self.kwds) # # It looks trivial, but it lets you name and initialize # temporary variables, then use them in a longer expression, # and then disappear (i.e., without polluting the containing # scope). # # # Here's the sample Zach typed in, mostly from memory; a fragment # from a "Longest Common Substring" calculation. I think I've # removed all of the removable backslashes: left = \ let( rightToLeftLcsTable = let( leftHalf = str2[:right + 1], firstRow = [0] * len(str2) ). IN(lambda leftHalf, firstRow: lcsTable(stringReverse(str1), stringReverse(leftHalf), firstRow, eq) + [firstRow])). \ IN(lambda rightToLeftLcsTable: match(lcsFarBound(rightToLeftLcsTable[0]), ({"const": -1}, -1), (__, lambda x: x - 1))) # # Here's a bit of a "how it works" note that I didn't notice during # the meeting: Notice the dot at the end of each of the lines # that precedes an "IN(...)" line. The "IN" is a member function # called on the "let" object. So the value of the expression as # a whole is as if you had typed: # # let_obj = let( ... ) # set those variables # left = let_obj.IN( ) # # Cool, though if I were doing it, I think I'd be using one- or two-letter # variable names instead of 8 to 19-letter names. I wonder if there's a # way to do this that lowers the repetition factor (i.e., doesn't require # you to type each variable name at least twice).. # # Note that the cool-looking "match" function is left as an exercise # for the reader. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Responding to Marilyn Davis' snippet about the "property" decorator function, Drew showed an implementation of "property2" which can be used with the "@" attribute syntax, unlike the Python library "property" decorator. Also left as an exercise for the reader, or for Drew to post here in due time. -- Doug Landauer From jjinux at gmail.com Sat Apr 14 02:21:05 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 17:21:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - Unicode normalisation/normalization trick In-Reply-To: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> Message-ID: On 4/12/07, Chris Clark wrote: > Here is the "barely a snippet, more of a reminder of the wealth of > libraries that Python ships with", I showed this evening. jj told me > that there is a similar piece of code in the cookbook, I've not checked > it for fear of seeing a better explanation.... > > I've sent this mail in cp1252 encoding (almost latin1), if you can't see > some of the special characters in it, try the html attachment in a > browser instead. > > I needed to perform string comparisons so that: > > "o" == "?" > > would be considered true. I.e. lower case "O" matches lower case "O" > with umlaut. I really wanted this to work with all decorated characters, > "A acute", "A caret", ...... > > The unicodedate library has a normalisation function which allows > normalisation to different forms. One of the forms decomposes a single > decorated characters into surrogate pairs of the undecoratered character > + the decorater. If you can strip the decorater off you end up with the > undecoratered character. Simply encoding in 7 bit ascii (with an ignore > unmappables) happens to do just that very thing. Viz.: > > >>> import unicodedata > >>> test_str = u'Bj\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS}rk' > >>> test_str > u'Bj\xf6rk' > >>> print test_str > Bj?rk > >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ) > u'Bjo\u0308rk' > >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', 'ignore') > 'Bjork' > > Once converted you can perform comparisons, storage, or even convert > back to Unicode :-) > > One word of caution, some characters won't decompose (for sensible > reasons), this is really intended for decorated or accented characters. > E.g.: > > >>> test_str = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE}' > >>> test_str > u'\xc6' > >>> print test_str > ? > >>> unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', 'ignore') > '' > > I.e. u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE}' is already normalised (to NFKD). > > http://unicode.org is *the* place for all things Unicode but there are > some sites around that are slightly more friendly for simple lookups, > e.g. > http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00f6/index.htm > gives > the name, picture (in case you do not have a suitable font installed) as > well as a bunch of other truly useful information. > > Chris > > > > > >>> import unicodedata > >>> test_str = u'Bj\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS}rk' > >>> print test_str > Bj?rk > >>> test_str = u'Bj\u00F6rk' > >>> print test_str > Bj?rk > >>> print unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', > 'ignore') > Bjork > >>> test_str = u'\N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER AE}' > >>> print test_str > ? > >>> print unicodedata.normalize('NFKD', test_str ).encode('ASCII', > 'ignore') > > >>> > > > > See > http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/00f6/index.htm latin1_to_ascii -- The UNICODE Hammer -- AKA "The Stupid American" http://aspn.activestate.com/ASPN/Cookbook/Python/Recipe/251871 I always remember the name of this cookbook entry because of the clever name ;) The comments are actually better than the recipe itself, if I remember right. Best Regards, -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From asheesh at asheesh.org Sat Apr 14 04:52:39 2007 From: asheesh at asheesh.org (Asheesh Laroia) Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:52:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - tdc, undent, let/IN, property2 In-Reply-To: <200f5417044fdeb1bbdbde216cd477e6@cruzio.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> <200f5417044fdeb1bbdbde216cd477e6@cruzio.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Apr 2007, Doug Landauer wrote: > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- > > Chris Clark already sent out a message about the unicode/normalization > snippet that he presented. > > Let me (DAL) just add this: http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr15/ > makes it pretty clear that "NFKD" is *not* an acronym; the > NF stands for "Normalization Form", but the "KD" stands > somehow for "Compatibility Decomposition". > > -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Now (along with the discussion of the "The Stupid American") I fully understand http://diveintomark.org/archives/2004/07/06/nfc . -- Asheesh. -- All say, "How hard it is that we have to die"--a strange complaint to come from the mouths of people who have had to live. -- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar" From drewp at bigasterisk.com Sat Apr 14 19:44:13 2007 From: drewp at bigasterisk.com (Drew Perttula) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 10:44:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - property2 In-Reply-To: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> Message-ID: <462112ED.9000801@bigasterisk.com> Here is the property() variation that works as a decorator, but seems to continue to work the same as old property(). The big trick is distinguishing property(justOneGetter) from property(aFunctionToCallToGetTheArgs). Based on Doug's suggestion, I am inspecting the incoming function's signature to guess which mode the user wants. import inspect def property2(fget=None, fset=None, fdel=None, doc=None): funcs = dict(fset=fset, fget=fget, fdel=fdel, doc=doc) if fget is not None: argNames = inspect.getargspec(fget)[0] if not argNames: funcs = fget() return property(**funcs) class Foo(object): def x(): def fset(self, v): self._x = v def fget(self): return self._x return locals() x = property2(**x()) @property2 def y(): def fget(self): return "why" return locals() def z_fget(self): return 'zee' z = property2(z_fget) f = Foo() f.x = 5 assert f.x == 5 assert f.y == 'why' assert f.z == 'zee' From kelly at nttmcl.com Mon Apr 16 07:06:21 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:06:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting Message-ID: My laptop's battery died before I was able to present my snippet, but I posted it on my blog at: http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/2007/04/python-anti-snippet.html I call it an "anti-snippet" because I really just take a terrible piece of logic ported from C and show different ways to implement in python. There isn't anything particular clever about it. In fact the original code is pretty anti-clever. :) Kelly From cappy2112 at gmail.com Tue Apr 17 00:11:24 2007 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:11:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] VMWare attendee from the last meeting, please email me -off list Message-ID: <8249c4ac0704161511w2db5b9f6q64bdd26f235c2e34@mail.gmail.com> Will the gentleman from VMWare who was handing out the coupons for free copies of VMWare workstation last Thursday, please email me off list? thanks From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Apr 18 01:14:11 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:14:11 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - property2 In-Reply-To: <462112ED.9000801@bigasterisk.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> <462112ED.9000801@bigasterisk.com> Message-ID: On 4/14/07, Drew Perttula wrote: > Here is the property() variation that works as a decorator, but seems to > continue to work the same as old property(). The big trick is > distinguishing property(justOneGetter) from > property(aFunctionToCallToGetTheArgs). Based on Doug's suggestion, I am > inspecting the incoming function's signature to guess which mode the > user wants. > > > import inspect > > def property2(fget=None, fset=None, fdel=None, doc=None): > funcs = dict(fset=fset, fget=fget, fdel=fdel, doc=doc) > if fget is not None: > argNames = inspect.getargspec(fget)[0] > if not argNames: > funcs = fget() > > return property(**funcs) > > class Foo(object): > def x(): > def fset(self, v): > self._x = v > def fget(self): > return self._x > return locals() > x = property2(**x()) > > @property2 > def y(): > def fget(self): > return "why" > return locals() > > def z_fget(self): > return 'zee' > z = property2(z_fget) > > f = Foo() > f.x = 5 > assert f.x == 5 > assert f.y == 'why' > assert f.z == 'zee' I continue to wonder if there's any chance Python's property function will be updated so that it can also act as a function decorator. (nudge, nudge ;) Best Regards, -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Wed Apr 18 01:19:03 2007 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:19:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Guys, May I ask that you each put the code, description and links for your snippets up on: http://www.baypiggies.net/ (still pointing to Feb talk) Plus a link to the Google video when it is posted. Thanks, Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Exercise your brain! Try Flexicon. http://games.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmemailtaglineapril07 From keith at dartworks.biz Wed Apr 18 01:19:51 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:19:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - property2 In-Reply-To: References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> <462112ED.9000801@bigasterisk.com> Message-ID: <20070417161951.4a93c490@psyche.corp.google.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote the following on 2007-04-17 at 16:14 PDT: === > I continue to wonder if there's any chance Python's property function > will be updated so that it can also act as a function decorator. > (nudge, nudge ;) === Write a PEP, submit a patch, and pray. Nudge, nudge. ;-) -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From wescpy at gmail.com Wed Apr 18 01:23:51 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:23:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] April snippets meeting - property2 In-Reply-To: <20070417161951.4a93c490@psyche.corp.google.com> References: <461F1188.7000101@ingres.com> <462112ED.9000801@bigasterisk.com> <20070417161951.4a93c490@psyche.corp.google.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704171623q5e302a80l9d7784c6dfc0135a@mail.gmail.com> > > I continue to wonder if there's any chance Python's property function > > will be updated so that it can also act as a function decorator. > > (nudge, nudge ;) > > Write a PEP, submit a patch, and pray. Nudge, nudge. ;-) geez, u guys make me feel like i was "ahead of my time" during my time of euphoria when learning properties... i guess i was so convinced that i actually put it in the book! LOL that was a cool snippet drew! thanks for realizing my dreams momentarily. ;-) From mscroggins at jobjournal.com Wed Apr 18 02:09:47 2007 From: mscroggins at jobjournal.com (Megan Scroggins) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:09:47 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Upcoming Technical Job Fair - San Francisco - 5/8/07 Message-ID: Please help spread the word about the upcoming San Francisco Technical HIREvent Job Fair taking place on May 8 at the Hotel Whitcomb (formerly the Ramada Plaza). [click for location details ] You can print out the flyer below and post it in a public place, and/or email it to anyone who may benefit. http://www.jobjournal.com/pdf/201_tech_att.pdf Thank you, ___________________________ Megan Scroggins TEL: 800-655-5627 ext. 321 FAX: (916) 925-0101 mscroggins at jobjournal.com www.jobjournal.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070417/161ca3b3/attachment.htm From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 19 01:25:51 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:25:51 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding Message-ID: I noticed that urllib.urlencode does the right thing (i.e. it uses %xx) if you .encode('utf-8') the parameters first. I'm wondering if it makes sense for urllib.urlencode to automatically encode Unicode objects in this case. I haven't had much luck getting changes into Python, so I was going to solicit comments here first. Thanks, -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From keith at dartworks.biz Thu Apr 19 01:35:27 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:35:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070418163527.04d7df3d@psyche.corp.google.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote the following on 2007-04-18 at 16:25 PDT: === > I noticed that urllib.urlencode does the right thing (i.e. it uses > %xx) if you .encode('utf-8') the parameters first. I'm wondering if > it makes sense for urllib.urlencode to automatically encode Unicode > objects in this case. I haven't had much luck getting changes into > Python, so I was going to solicit comments here first. === Yes, I think so. That's wny I use the module urlparseplus. http://pynms.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lib/urlparseplus.py -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 01:51:54 2007 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:51:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I may not have the complete context of your question. So I might be suggesting something different. I think you want to encoded unicode characters into a query string or the URI. What you are doing is right. Not only do you have to encode a string in UTF-8 first, you also need a complementary UTF-8 decoding on the CGI side. urllib.urlencode() cannot encode unicode string itself. RFC 2396 has not taken unicode into consideration. So there is no rule on what to do with unicode in an URI. It is up to the application to decide on the encoding, e.g. UTF-8 first, url encoding next. Others might very well choose to use UTF-16 instead. Wai Yip > I noticed that urllib.urlencode does the right thing (i.e. it uses > %xx) if you .encode('utf-8') the parameters first. I'm wondering if > it makes sense for urllib.urlencode to automatically encode Unicode > objects in this case. I haven't had much luck getting changes into > Python, so I was going to solicit comments here first. > > Thanks, > -jj > > -- > "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very > difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there > isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter > Deutsch > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies From keith at dartworks.biz Thu Apr 19 02:08:13 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart =?UTF-8?B?4pmC?=) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:08:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> Tung Wai Yip wrote the following on 2007-04-18 at 16:51 PDT: === > urllib.urlencode() cannot encode unicode string itself. RFC 2396 has not > taken unicode into consideration. So there is no rule on what to do with > unicode in an URI. It is up to the application to decide on the encoding, > e.g. UTF-8 first, url encoding next. Others might very well choose to use > UTF-16 instead. === Nope, see RFC 3986: Network Working Group T. Berners-Lee Request for Comments: 3986 W3C/MIT STD: 66 R. Fielding Updates: 1738 Day Software Obsoletes: 2732, *2396*, 1808 Section 2.5: When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set [UCS], the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8 character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent- encoded. For example, the character A would be represented as "A", the character LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE would be represented as "%C3%80", and the character KATAKANA LETTER A would be represented as "%E3%82%A2". -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From dreid at dreid.org Thu Apr 19 06:15:34 2007 From: dreid at dreid.org (David Reid) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:15:34 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> Message-ID: <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi folks, On Apr 18, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Keith Dart ? wrote: > > When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual > > data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set > > [UCS], > > the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8 > > character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not > > correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent- > > encoded. For example, the character A would be represented as "A", > > the character LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE would be > > represented > > as "%C3%80", and the character KATAKANA LETTER A would be > > represented > > as "%E3%82%A2". The key piece of information here is "When a new URI scheme" the RFC (AFAICT) makes no mention of what to do about old schemes, such as HTTP. In fact the HTML4 spec makes it's own claims as to %-encoded as a result of form submission: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html accept-charset = charset list [CI] This attribute specifies the list of character encodings for input data that is accepted by the server processing this form. The value is a space- and/or comma-delimited list of charset values. The client must interpret this list as an exclusive-or list, i.e., the server is able to accept any single character encoding per entity received. The default value for this attribute is the reserved string "UNKNOWN". User agents may interpret this value as the character encoding that was used to transmit the document containing this FORM element. So I think it's still incorrect for urllib to make any such assumptions as to the data being UTF-8. (Though I hope it won't be in the future.) - -David http://dreid.org "Usually the protocol is this: I appoint someone for a task, which they are not qualified to do. Then, they have to fight a bear if they don't want to do it." -- Glyph Lefkowitz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGJuzDrsrO6aeULcgRAhdNAJ9VeVkbPXC/eMvOTmEmgWT2vhzoewCgnmbL ZG5/CIcdtV44ojqefbo+4cw= =K+T2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dreid at dreid.org Thu Apr 19 18:14:49 2007 From: dreid at dreid.org (David Reid) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:14:49 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: <20070418231733.1c3d01a6@tinker.homenetwork> References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> <20070418231733.1c3d01a6@tinker.homenetwork> Message-ID: <9A308644-8CC2-4E40-962F-030ACB162D39@dreid.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Keith Dart wrote: > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:15:34 -0700 > David Reid wrote: > >> So I think it's still incorrect for urllib to make any such >> assumptions as to the data being UTF-8. (Though I hope it won't be in >> the future.) > > The RFC, and the previous discussion, have nothing to do with the > content (data) encoding. It's only concerned with the URL encoding. The relevant section of the HTML4 forms spec is concerned with the URL encoding if the URL is generated by the browser as part of a form submission. So I'm still gonna have to go with it being pretty much completely wrong for urllib to make any assumptions about the charset of %-encoded data (either in a url segment or in query args.) Not that life wouldn't be much nicer if everything weren't UTF-8, but the world isn't that nice to begin with. - -David http://dreid.org "Usually the protocol is this: I appoint someone for a task, which they are not qualified to do. Then, they have to fight a bear if they don't want to do it." -- Glyph Lefkowitz -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFGJ5PvrsrO6aeULcgRAouTAJ49/rpNFGIxA7rJdR/h8ItKCmszkgCggSua eXILt7KtfK6+MAEVZRT5Hjs= =7SSs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 19:38:16 2007 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:38:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> Message-ID: > On Apr 18, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Keith Dart ? wrote: >> > When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual >> > data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set >> > [UCS], >> > the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8 >> > character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not >> > correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent- >> > encoded. For example, the character A would be represented as "A", >> > the character LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE would be >> > represented >> > as "%C3%80", and the character KATAKANA LETTER A would be >> > represented >> > as "%E3%82%A2". Thanks Keith for the heads up. One issue I regularly have is to track down the lineage of RFCs. When I found RFC X, I am often not aware of a RFC Y that supersede it. It doesn't help that historically there are many documents pointing to RFC X. But from RFC X itself it has no link to RFC Y. Try to follow the link from the bottom of the urlparse module documentation. It does not lead to RFC 3986. http://docs.python.org/lib/module-urlparse.html On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:15:34 -0700, David Reid wrote: > The key piece of information here is "When a new URI scheme" the RFC > (AFAICT) makes no mention of what to do about old schemes, such as > HTTP. In fact the HTML4 spec makes it's own claims as to %-encoded > as a result of form submission: > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html > > accept-charset = charset list [CI] > This attribute specifies the list of character encodings for > input data that is accepted by the server processing this form. The > value is a space- and/or comma-delimited list of charset values. The > client must interpret this list as an exclusive-or list, i.e., the > server is able to accept any single character encoding per entity > received. > The default value for this attribute is the reserved string > "UNKNOWN". User agents may interpret this value as the character > encoding that was used to transmit the document containing this FORM > element. > > So I think it's still incorrect for urllib to make any such > assumptions as to the data being UTF-8. (Though I hope it won't be in > the future.) > > - -David > http://dreid.org I think RFC 3986 says a character should be encoded in UTF-8 only if it is from the UCS. But it is also legitimate to use other character set, for example as in the HTML4 spec David has pointed out. Say you are writing a screen scrapper for a Japanese website you should use the character encoding the website expects, which is not necessary UTF-8. Wai Yip From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Thu Apr 19 20:14:54 2007 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:14:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: <9A308644-8CC2-4E40-962F-030ACB162D39@dreid.org> References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> <20070418231733.1c3d01a6@tinker.homenetwork> <9A308644-8CC2-4E40-962F-030ACB162D39@dreid.org> Message-ID: > On Apr 18, 2007, at 11:17 PM, Keith Dart wrote: > >> On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:15:34 -0700 >> David Reid wrote: >> >>> So I think it's still incorrect for urllib to make any such >>> assumptions as to the data being UTF-8. (Though I hope it won't be in >>> the future.) >> >> The RFC, and the previous discussion, have nothing to do with the >> content (data) encoding. It's only concerned with the URL encoding. > > The relevant section of the HTML4 forms spec is concerned with the > URL encoding if the URL is generated by the browser as part of a form > submission. So I'm still gonna have to go with it being pretty much > completely wrong for urllib to make any assumptions about the charset > of %-encoded data (either in a url segment or in query args.) Not > that life wouldn't be much nicer if everything weren't UTF-8, but the > world isn't that nice to begin with. > > - -David > http://dreid.org Here is an example. The key parameter is BIG-5 encoded. Welcome to the tower of babel! http://search.books.com.tw/exep/prod_search.php?cat=all&key=%A5i%B7R%A4O%B6q%A4j&image233223.x=13&image233223.y=10 Wai Yip From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 19 20:22:57 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 11:22:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> Message-ID: On 4/19/07, Tung Wai Yip wrote: > > On Apr 18, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Keith Dart ? wrote: > >> > When a new URI scheme defines a component that represents textual > >> > data consisting of characters from the Universal Character Set > >> > [UCS], > >> > the data should first be encoded as octets according to the UTF-8 > >> > character encoding [STD63]; then only those octets that do not > >> > correspond to characters in the unreserved set should be percent- > >> > encoded. For example, the character A would be represented as "A", > >> > the character LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH GRAVE would be > >> > represented > >> > as "%C3%80", and the character KATAKANA LETTER A would be > >> > represented > >> > as "%E3%82%A2". > > Thanks Keith for the heads up. One issue I regularly have is to track down > the lineage of RFCs. When I found RFC X, I am often not aware of a RFC Y > that supersede it. It doesn't help that historically there are many > documents pointing to RFC X. But from RFC X itself it has no link to RFC > Y. Try to follow the link from the bottom of the urlparse module > documentation. It does not lead to RFC 3986. > > http://docs.python.org/lib/module-urlparse.html > > > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:15:34 -0700, David Reid wrote: > > The key piece of information here is "When a new URI scheme" the RFC > > (AFAICT) makes no mention of what to do about old schemes, such as > > HTTP. In fact the HTML4 spec makes it's own claims as to %-encoded > > as a result of form submission: > > > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html > > > > accept-charset = charset list [CI] > > This attribute specifies the list of character encodings for > > input data that is accepted by the server processing this form. The > > value is a space- and/or comma-delimited list of charset values. The > > client must interpret this list as an exclusive-or list, i.e., the > > server is able to accept any single character encoding per entity > > received. > > The default value for this attribute is the reserved string > > "UNKNOWN". User agents may interpret this value as the character > > encoding that was used to transmit the document containing this FORM > > element. > > > > So I think it's still incorrect for urllib to make any such > > assumptions as to the data being UTF-8. (Though I hope it won't be in > > the future.) > > > > - -David > > http://dreid.org > > I think RFC 3986 says a character should be encoded in UTF-8 only if it is > from the UCS. But it is also legitimate to use other character set, for > example as in the HTML4 spec David has pointed out. Say you are writing a > screen scrapper for a Japanese website you should use the character > encoding the website expects, which is not necessary UTF-8. Ok, thanks for all your comments guys. David, thanks for the RFC quotes. If I am to understand things correctly, because the rest of my page is all working correctly using UTF-8, I can .encode('UTF-8') parameters before passing them to urlencode. However, it doesn't make sense to put that .encode inside urlencode. >Welcome to the tower of babel! I was reading the other day, and I was pondering the fact that we can't even agree on versions of HTML. Mozilla *still* recommends HTML 4.01 over XHTML. Since HTML is a language used to transport content, I recognized that this too was a case of the Tower of Babel. Upon realizing this, in my head, I heard a little voice say, "Gotcha!" *sigh* -jj -- "'Software Engineering' is something of an oxymoron. It's very difficult to have real engineering before you have physics, and there isn't anything even close to a physics for software." -- L. Peter Deutsch From keith at dartworks.biz Thu Apr 19 22:29:41 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:29:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] urllib.urlencode and encoding In-Reply-To: References: <20070418170813.16874d8b@psyche.corp.google.com> <4626ECE6.8000306@dreid.org> Message-ID: <20070419132941.0441685b@tinker.homenetwork> On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:38:16 -0700 "Tung Wai Yip" wrote: > Thanks Keith for the heads up. One issue I regularly have is to track > down the lineage of RFCs. When I found RFC X, I am often not aware of > a RFC Y that supersede it. It doesn't help that historically there > are many documents pointing to RFC X. But from RFC X itself it has no > link to RFC Y. Try to follow the link from the bottom of the urlparse > module documentation. It does not lead to RFC 3986. Yep, I know. It helps to get the master index and grep around in there. :-) > http://docs.python.org/lib/module-urlparse.html Many of the core Python modules are out of date (are not written to current specs). That's why I don't use them, and pyNMS has a collection of updated modules. -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From Chris.Clark at ingres.com Fri Apr 20 02:22:38 2007 From: Chris.Clark at ingres.com (Chris Clark) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:22:38 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> Leslie Hawthorn wrote: > ...Next Tuesday, April 10th, Alex Martelli will present Python for > Programmers as part of the Open Source Developers @ Google Speaker > Series.... The video is now up http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1135114630744003385 and I think http://www.aleax.it/Python/py4prog.pdf are the slides that went with it From aleax at google.com Fri Apr 20 02:53:05 2007 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:53:05 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> On 4/19/07, Chris Clark wrote: > > Leslie Hawthorn wrote: > > ...Next Tuesday, April 10th, Alex Martelli will present Python for > > Programmers as part of the Open Source Developers @ Google Speaker > > Series.... > The video is now up > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1135114630744003385 and I think > http://www.aleax.it/Python/py4prog.pdf are the slides that went with it Not exactly, the slides are at http://www.aleax.it/goo_py4prog.pdf The ones you indicate are for a much older version of the talk. Thanks, Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070419/e270f4c2/attachment.htm From wescpy at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 03:50:41 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:50:41 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> > > > ...Next Tuesday, April 10th, Alex Martelli will present Python for > > > Programmers as part of the Open Source Developers @ Google Speaker > > > Series.... > > The video is now up since we're talking about alex's slides, jim's slated next month to be newbie month, rather than waiting for someone update the website accordingly -- it's a bit outdated showing feb's agenda -- i just did it myself, so you can now point your newbie friends to http://baypiggies.net without feeling embarassed. :-) -wesley From jim at well.com Fri Apr 20 18:15:17 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:15:17 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> Tony suggested that Alex's outline might be a good basis for Newbies Night. I can't help thinking that asking Alex to re-present his talk would solve the problem. Your thoughts? On Apr 19, 2007, at 6:50 PM, wesley chun wrote: >>>> ...Next Tuesday, April 10th, Alex Martelli will present Python for >>>> Programmers as part of the Open Source Developers @ Google Speaker >>>> Series.... >>> The video is now up > > > since we're talking about alex's slides, jim's slated next month to be > newbie month, rather than waiting for someone update the website > accordingly -- it's a bit outdated showing feb's agenda -- i just did > it myself, so you can now point your newbie friends to > http://baypiggies.net without feeling embarassed. :-) > > -wesley > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From jim at well.com Fri Apr 20 18:19:10 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:19:10 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Newbies Night suggestions Message-ID: <6e97ac79afd760b87713a004f4446c22@well.com> There's * using Alex Martelli's outline (and maybe Alex would present again. * Ross' suggested outline: interactive Python vs Python Modules Techniques of Interactive Testing Conventions of Modules what's hashbang doing there? import lists if __name__ test_the_module * Chris suggests mentioning cherry.py which suggests to me cheeseshop and other sources * Marilyn suggests focus on namespaces, get their heads into namespaces From aleax at google.com Fri Apr 20 18:49:21 2007 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:49:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> Message-ID: <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> On 4/20/07, jim stockford wrote: > > > Tony suggested that Alex's outline might be > a good basis for Newbies Night. I can't help > thinking that asking Alex to re-present his > talk would solve the problem. > > Your thoughts? NP from my POV, I'm always glad to present, but -- my talk's about 90-100 minutes' worth and is aimed pretty high -- to people who are already experienced programmers in (say) C++ or Java, not to newbies per se. If we want to address "real newbies", and with a shorter talk, the whole thing might need major restructuring (e.g. early focus on powerful library features, while the current talk focuses mostly on the language per se and only towards the end starts touching on the library, and somewhat cursorily at that). So, what's the intended audience for "newbie night" -- programmers experienced in other languages, or "real newbies", essentially new to programming? Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070420/3cdea3c6/attachment.htm From cappy2112 at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 19:02:50 2007 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:02:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Newbies Night suggestions In-Reply-To: <6e97ac79afd760b87713a004f4446c22@well.com> References: <6e97ac79afd760b87713a004f4446c22@well.com> Message-ID: <8249c4ac0704201002h1ce3638br7f6e704046b62fb9@mail.gmail.com> > * Chris suggests mentioning cherry.py > which suggests to me cheeseshop and other sources I think you mean CherryPy as in CherryPy.org Is this really something you want a newbie to be overwhelmed with during an intro to Python ?? Perhaps that would be better covered during a web frameworks shootout night??? (The cheeseshop is a good resource to mention though) From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 20:30:30 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 11:30:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/07, Alex Martelli wrote: > On 4/20/07, jim stockford wrote: > > > > Tony suggested that Alex's outline might be > > a good basis for Newbies Night. I can't help > > thinking that asking Alex to re-present his > > talk would solve the problem. > > > > Your thoughts? > > NP from my POV, I'm always glad to present, but -- my talk's about 90-100 > minutes' worth and is aimed pretty high -- to people who are already > experienced programmers in (say) C++ or Java, not to newbies per se. If we > want to address "real newbies", and with a shorter talk, the whole thing > might need major restructuring ( e.g. early focus on powerful library > features, while the current talk focuses mostly on the language per se and > only towards the end starts touching on the library, and somewhat cursorily > at that). > > So, what's the intended audience for "newbie night" -- programmers > experienced in other languages, or "real newbies", essentially new to > programming? It seems to me nearly impossible to introduce a total newbie to programming in Python in an hour. Doing turtle graphics might be more appropriate for that. My $0.02, -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Fri Apr 20 21:02:16 2007 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:02:16 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Newbies Night suggestions In-Reply-To: <8249c4ac0704201002h1ce3638br7f6e704046b62fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: >Perhaps that would be better covered during a web frameworks shootout >night??? That's a great idea for a separate night. To enable ease-of-comparison, implement the same reference task in different frameworks. Stephen _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE Web site, company branded e-mail and more from Microsoft Office Live! http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/ From annaraven at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 21:40:58 2007 From: annaraven at gmail.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:40:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > On 4/20/07, Alex Martelli wrote: > > On 4/20/07, jim stockford wrote: > > > > > > Tony suggested that Alex's outline might be > > > a good basis for Newbies Night. I can't help > > > thinking that asking Alex to re-present his > > > talk would solve the problem. > > > > > > Your thoughts? > > > > NP from my POV, I'm always glad to present, but -- my talk's about 90-100 > > minutes' worth and is aimed pretty high -- to people who are already > > experienced programmers in (say) C++ or Java, not to newbies per se. If we > > want to address "real newbies", and with a shorter talk, the whole thing > > might need major restructuring ( e.g. early focus on powerful library > > features, while the current talk focuses mostly on the language per se and > > only towards the end starts touching on the library, and somewhat cursorily > > at that). > > > > So, what's the intended audience for "newbie night" -- programmers > > experienced in other languages, or "real newbies", essentially new to > > programming? > > It seems to me nearly impossible to introduce a total newbie to > programming in Python in an hour. Doing turtle graphics might be more > appropriate for that. > > My $0.02, > -jj > But we should be prepared to let the real newbies know where/how to proceed. and reassure them that it's a language that even real newbies can learn. Then we can go on to Alex's talk. Perhaps someone like me or Aahz or Wesley could talk first, briefly, about Python for programming newbies, and the we could go to the talk for the experienced programmers? -- cordially, Anna -- It is fate, but call it Italy if it pleases you, Vicar! From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 20 22:33:30 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:33:30 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Newbies Night suggestions In-Reply-To: References: <8249c4ac0704201002h1ce3638br7f6e704046b62fb9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/07, Stephen McInerney wrote: > >Perhaps that would be better covered during a web frameworks shootout > >night??? > > That's a great idea for a separate night. > > To enable ease-of-comparison, implement the same reference task in different > frameworks. Anyone remember the Web Framework Shootout? http://colorstudy.com/docs/shootout.html I have an app that I've implemented in Aquarium, Django, and Pylons. I'm sure it would port easily to TurboGears. Reading about web framework shootouts isn't quite as much fun as you might think--the real fun is implementing the project yourself. Happy Hacking! -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From aahz at pythoncraft.com Fri Apr 20 23:31:59 2007 From: aahz at pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:31:59 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] PIP Message-ID: <20070420213159.GA10472@panix.com> That's Pythonista In Print: http://www.ddj.com/dept/architect/198800578 Take a bow, Shannon! -- Aahz (aahz at pythoncraft.com) <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/ Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html From wescpy at gmail.com Sat Apr 21 00:14:25 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:14:25 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704201514g6bce1283x51b29dab59efe6d5@mail.gmail.com> i have a < 30 slide presentation that i use for "What is Python?" BOFs at conferences that are more "lightweight" than alex's talk. lemme see if i can dig 'em up and post 'em here so u guys can compare. i'd be willing to do the "intro" talk as anna's suggested. when we discussed the audience, we specifically identified 2 groups: - people who are brand-spankin' new to programming - experienced programmers who want to learn Python -- perfect for Alex's talk ... but i think we may have left out one group: - people who work in a technical profession who have not been programmers/engineers but in their careers have had to put some scripts together for specific purposes, or hobbyists/tinkerers who have messed around a bit, but have not taken any formal programming and are either considering transitioning to more coding-oriented jobs or just happy where they are but want to know how to learn a new tool like Python (basic data types, constructs, flow ctrl, syntax, etc.) for their hobby/tinkering newbies nite will likely have attendees from each of these 3 groups, but will there be more from one or more groups than the others? it's possible, and if there were, i might be inclined to think it would be the latter pair. people who are absolutely new to programming period will not likely come to a user group meeting (unless y'all are particularly convincing). comments? -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - "Core Python Programming", Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com From DennisR at dair.com Sat Apr 21 00:28:56 2007 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:28:56 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Alex Martelli - Python for Programmers, 4/10/07 In-Reply-To: <78b3a9580704201514g6bce1283x51b29dab59efe6d5@mail.gmail.co m> References: <4869cee70704050951g2078a155xb6da9908239d5a40@mail.gmail.com> <462807CE.6030507@ingres.com> <55dc209b0704191753h6c48cbftb492156db4598de@mail.gmail.com> <78b3a9580704191850y5cc660efu159d0ef2c12e14e2@mail.gmail.com> <83cc0dcf39abef69c53ea51d90c531d8@well.com> <55dc209b0704200949m1e50f290n945bfc60c2dafac5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070420152402.00bf9c20@localhost> At 03:14 PM 4/20/2007, wesley chun wrote: >people who are absolutely new to programming period >will not likely come to a user group meeting Agree. They *might* be willing to watch an good introductory video. Having an interactive session with lots of questions presenter does not repeat or summarize will not make a good introductory video. Having audience members (no matter how knowledgeable) give 5-10 minute micro-presentations from the floor will not make a good introductory video. Dennis --------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com | --------------------------------- From jjinux at gmail.com Sat Apr 21 01:08:03 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:08:03 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] PIP In-Reply-To: <20070420213159.GA10472@panix.com> References: <20070420213159.GA10472@panix.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/07, Aahz wrote: > That's Pythonista In Print: > http://www.ddj.com/dept/architect/198800578 > > Take a bow, Shannon! Thanks, Aahz ;) -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jim at well.com Sat Apr 21 19:44:27 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:44:27 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night newbies Message-ID: as to the definition of "newbie", we have a couple of immediate data points: * the guys who showed up for the April meeting ("came on the wrong night"). They looked and smelled like coders to me. * the February email re newbies night in which a few postings were from self-proclaimed newbies who were clearly sophisticated software engineers. My experience (taught programming for a few years, tho' not python) is that people interested in coding and languages have a leg up in some fashion. Even if not, as another teacher once mentioned, "it's good for them to hear the words". It seems to me that Alex M's 50 page outline is very good fodder for newbies night, and given that he's willing to present in May, that's my vote. 'S okay with you all? Would let us get to soliciting. Given his claim that it's a 90 minute or more presentation, there'd be no time for intros, but I think that's okay (again, your tho'ts?). If there's not quite enough time to get through it all, well that seems okay too. Brings to mind the possibility of two nights, part one and part two, with time for meaty Q 'n' A. From keith at dartworks.biz Sun Apr 22 07:38:12 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 22:38:12 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20070421223812.3d604afa@tinker.homenetwork> On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:44:27 -0700 jim stockford wrote: > It seems to me that Alex M's 50 page outline is very > good fodder for newbies night, and given that he's > willing to present in May, that's my vote. I did see his talk at Google. It's good. I believe your assessment is right on target. -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From cappy2112 at gmail.com Sun Apr 22 08:58:28 2007 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:58:28 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Audio signal processing & generation Message-ID: <8249c4ac0704212358j3c311c70w4e1c3bb23819ba6d@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone in BP have any experience processing audio- via software algorithms? By processing audio I'm referring to generating signals or interpreting them using software you've written. The experience doesn't have to be Python-bases, but would be preferred. Please email me off-list thanks From aleax at google.com Sun Apr 22 18:06:42 2007 From: aleax at google.com (Alex Martelli) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:06:42 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night newbies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <55dc209b0704220906t4c91345bt9fbc06a7671e84cb@mail.gmail.com> On 4/21/07, jim stockford wrote: > > > as to the definition of "newbie", we have a couple > of immediate data points: > * the guys who showed up for the April meeting > ("came on the wrong night"). They looked and > smelled like coders to me. > * the February email re newbies night in which a > few postings were from self-proclaimed newbies > who were clearly sophisticated software engineers. > > My experience (taught programming for a few years, > tho' not python) is that people interested in coding > and languages have a leg up in some fashion. Even > if not, as another teacher once mentioned, "it's good > for them to hear the words". Very good points indeed, and if we can indeed communicate that this "newbie night" is suitable for people who already do have coding experience in other languages (not for newbies _to programming_), I think that may be sufficient. It seems to me that Alex M's 50 page outline is very > good fodder for newbies night, and given that he's > willing to present in May, that's my vote. > 'S okay with you all? Would let us get to soliciting. > Given his claim that it's a 90 minute or more > presentation, there'd be no time for intros, but I think > that's okay (again, your tho'ts?). > If there's not quite enough time to get through it > all, well that seems okay too. Brings to mind the > possibility of two nights, part one and part two, with > time for meaty Q 'n' A. A two-parts presentation could indeed be made more effective: the first part, 60 minutes, could focus more on meat and potatoes, omitting some advanced stuff and barely mentioning library issues, while the second part, another 60 minutes, would touch on some advanced stuff and go much deeper into library stuff. Each part would have reasonable time for Q/A and/or more examples, etc. There's one hitch though: I probably can't make it to the June meeting -- on June 9 and 10 in Firenze, Italia, we're running the first ever Italian Python conference, "Pycon Uno", and I'm scheduled to present the keynote and 2-3 shorter talks -- so I'll probably be in Europe for about 10 days around that weekend (taking the opportunity to visit family & likely some European Google office too), which more likely than not means no BP for me in June...:-( So, I'm not sure about when a "second part" could sensibly be scheduled (if I were to present it). Alex -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070422/75b4511a/attachment.htm From spmcinerney at hotmail.com Sun Apr 22 21:59:32 2007 From: spmcinerney at hotmail.com (Stephen McInerney) Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:59:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night newbies In-Reply-To: <55dc209b0704220906t4c91345bt9fbc06a7671e84cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This was precisely why I was suggesting we include in the talk abstract something like Level: Beginner/Intermediate/Expert/Familiar with other OO languages but not Python based on prior experience. Thanks, Stephen >Very good points indeed, and if we can indeed communicate that this "newbie >night" is suitable for people who already do have coding experience in >other >languages (not for newbies _to programming_), I think that may be >sufficient. _________________________________________________________________ Interest Rates NEAR 39yr LOWS! $430,000 Mortgage for $1,299/mo - Calculate new payment http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-19132&moid=14888 From sasha at snimmer.com Mon Apr 23 17:52:18 2007 From: sasha at snimmer.com (Sasha_SNIMMER) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] Python developer at SNIMMER Message-ID: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> Hi, I am looking for a python developer with experience in creating instant messaging applications for Jabber, Gaim, etc. http://www.snimmer.com SNIMMER is a web based IM social network (think My(WebIM)Space). SNIMMER is located in Palo Alto, CA. Our existing python developer is currently having problems with python memory leaks that obviously hamper scalability. If you are a young, bright and enthusiastic person, please contact Sasha @ snimmer.com. Thank you! -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Python-developer-at-SNIMMER-tf3632547.html#a10143144 Sent from the Baypiggies List 2 mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From mark.gentry at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 20:15:17 2007 From: mark.gentry at gmail.com (Mark Gentry) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:15:17 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python developer at Bittorrent. Message-ID: <3b29459d0704231115k5809ad8bwe8a6934cae01297b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am looking for expert python developers to work for Bittorrent. Bittorrent is written in python and is probably one of the most popular and well know programs written in it. We need more python programmers to help us continue with its success. There are still Start-up type opportunities. The company is a block away from the Embarcadero Bart Station in the city. You will get to work with smart people with good senses of humor. If you are interested please email me at mgentry at bittorrent.com. From geverscott at foothill.edu Mon Apr 23 20:24:54 2007 From: geverscott at foothill.edu (Scott Gever) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 11:24:54 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python developer at SNIMMER In-Reply-To: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <462CF9F6.10506@foothill.edu> Sasha_SNIMMER wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for a python developer with experience in creating instant > messaging applications for Jabber, Gaim, etc. > > http://www.snimmer.com SNIMMER is a web based IM social network (think > My(WebIM)Space). SNIMMER is located in Palo Alto, CA. > > Our existing python developer is currently having problems with python > memory leaks that obviously hamper scalability. > > If you are a young, bright and enthusiastic person, please contact Sasha @ > snimmer.com. > Anything wrong with OLD and brilliant, with unbounded enthusiasm? > Thank you! > Not yet. -- Scott -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070423/66eb3250/attachment.htm From DennisR at dair.com Mon Apr 23 22:05:09 2007 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:05:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python developer at SNIMMER In-Reply-To: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070423130351.00bfdd90@localhost> At 08:52 AM 4/23/2007, Sasha_SNIMMER wrote: >If you are a young, bright and enthusiastic person, please contact Sasha @ >snimmer.com. Define "young'. Describe how this overt age discrimination is a job requirement. --------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com | --------------------------------- From hcharnaw at vmware.com Mon Apr 23 22:05:24 2007 From: hcharnaw at vmware.com (Hayley Charnaw (c)) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:05:24 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] VMware Seeking Python Engineer Message-ID: <040EC1DE5CE40647A1E7BEECD85F62CB06D17FED@PA-EXCH04.vmware.com> Software Engineer - ESX Installation and Deployment Location: Palo Alto, CA This R&D position resides in our Core Technologies Group and will be a part of our Console Operating System and Applications team. The engineer in this role will gain exposure to many parts of our core OS and our applications. As a result of this exposure, he/she will interface with many groups in and outside of R&D. Responsibilities: This position's primary role is in the design and implementation of software for ESX installation, deployment and distribution. Work will involve interaction with product management and will require work with releases of new operating system versions, driver updates, and building Red Hat Package Management (RPM) packages. Most of the coding will be in done in Python with some limited use of Perl and C. Requirements: BS in Computer Science or equivalent. Fluent in the use of Python and other scripting languages. Experienced in Linux administration and configuration. Experience with RPM's. Experience building a Linux distribution or Linux rescue disk is preferred C and C++ programming is desirable. Experience with GTK or Glade a plus. Experience with YUM a plus. Interested parties please contact Hayley Charnaw hcharnaw at vmware.com or 650-475-5377 Hayley Charnaw Recruiter, R&D 650-475-5377 Direct Let's Connect! http://www.linkedin.com/in/hayleycharnaw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070423/a5635e07/attachment.htm From wescpy at gmail.com Mon Apr 23 22:37:57 2007 From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:37:57 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Python developer at SNIMMER In-Reply-To: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <10143144.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <78b3a9580704231337s37a6c338h9ac86d3f2f1f6eca@mail.gmail.com> > Our existing python developer is currently having problems with python > memory leaks that obviously hamper scalability. then *after* you get the job, you'll be treated with the utmost respect for your profession... i think i'll pass. From leearchive at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 01:05:04 2007 From: leearchive at gmail.com (Lee Hinde) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:05:04 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night newbies In-Reply-To: References: <55dc209b0704220906t4c91345bt9fbc06a7671e84cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/22/07, Stephen McInerney wrote: > This was precisely why I was suggesting we include in the talk abstract > something like > Level: Beginner/Intermediate/Expert/Familiar with other OO languages but not > Python > > based on prior experience. > > Thanks, > Stephen > > >Very good points indeed, and if we can indeed communicate that this "newbie > >night" is suitable for people who already do have coding experience in > >other > >languages (not for newbies _to programming_), I think that may be > >sufficient. As a target newbie.... Assign the Google presentation as a pre-meeting self-study ( :-) ). and then what I'd really like to see is a walk through of a 'simple' complex app. I.e., just a few files, but something that touches how to call a module and package and what the 'ell are all those __word__ methods I see. (I know, slide 34). And maybe a bit on best practices so I start off on the right foot. From keith at dartworks.biz Tue Apr 24 05:53:14 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:53:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] New Python application framework Message-ID: <20070423205314.7d76726d@tinker.homenetwork> Well, not quite new. I refactored, packaged, and renamed my open-source application framework and started putting packages up in cheeseshop. I've been learning more setuptools/distutils in the process. The old name was pyNMS, the new name is Pycopia. This also changes the design a bit, and removes the automatic adding of new builtins, and introduces a single top-level package. One nice feature of setuptools is that it allows you to break up a package into different components, but keep the same top-level package name. This is called a "namespace package". -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From keith at dartworks.biz Tue Apr 24 05:58:58 2007 From: keith at dartworks.biz (Keith Dart) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:58:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] New Python application framework In-Reply-To: <20070423205314.7d76726d@tinker.homenetwork> References: <20070423205314.7d76726d@tinker.homenetwork> Message-ID: <20070423205858.5c2e87df@tinker.homenetwork> On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:53:14 -0700 Keith Dart wrote: > Well, not quite new. I refactored, packaged, and renamed my > open-source application framework and started putting packages up in > cheeseshop. I've been learning more setuptools/distutils in the > process. > > The old name was pyNMS, the new name is Pycopia. This also changes the > design a bit, and removes the automatic adding of new builtins, and > introduces a single top-level package. > > One nice feature of setuptools is that it allows you to break up a > package into different components, but keep the same top-level package > name. This is called a "namespace package". Forgot to mention the URL: http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=search&term=pycopia&submit=search If anyone wants to use it please let me know. If anyone want's to co-develop it that's even better. :-) -- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Keith Dart public key: ID: 19017044 ===================================================================== From jim at well.com Tue Apr 24 19:56:08 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:56:08 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal Message-ID: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> My understanding is: * Alex is willing * the talk is appropriate * he likes the idea of splitting his talk into two nights * the split allows good Q 'n' A sessions. Alex is going to Firenze in June. I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in May and the second half in July. There seems no significant difference in continuity between a 30-day and a 60-day lapse between talks. So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June for the second half. In the absence of serious objection, I'll begin promotion to other appropriate user group mailing lists. jim From collinw at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 20:00:20 2007 From: collinw at gmail.com (Collin Winter) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:00:20 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> Message-ID: <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in > May and the second half in July. There seems no > significant difference in continuity between a 30-day > and a 60-day lapse between talks. > > So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one > in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June > for the second half. June or July? Collin Winter From jim at well.com Tue Apr 24 20:16:21 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:16:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> may night one june alex is in firenze july night two my mistake, sorry. On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in >> May and the second half in July. There seems no >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. >> >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June >> for the second half. > > June or July? > > Collin Winter > From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 20:29:56 2007 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:29:56 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> Message-ID: I have been extremely busy this past month or so.. way behind on updating baypiggies.net.. can someone send along the last couple talks (and I'll get May up as soon as Jim as final info for the meeting) We also have a plone site sitting all lonely and unused at the moment.. that should be finalized so we can hand the "updating" reigns over to a couple people.. If someone else wants to take over doing the updates (I'm notorious for putting the updates on the site.. either two minutes before the meeting.. or not at all) .. I would not be offended.. If not..I'll try to get the updates up much, much quicker. By the way.. this Newbies night.. is something I'd definitely attend. I fall into the new to programming and to Python category.. but I use Zope/Plone and should really learn Python too :-) Best Regards, Donna M. Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminate your web http://www.csquaredtech.com On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > > may night one > june alex is in firenze > july night two > > my mistake, sorry. > > On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in > >> May and the second half in July. There seems no > >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day > >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. > >> > >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one > >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June > >> for the second half. > > > > June or July? > > > > Collin Winter > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > From jim at well.com Tue Apr 24 20:36:37 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:36:37 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> Message-ID: <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> thanks for the note, donna. I forget with whom i spoke, but the idea has surfaced to have three persons with "keys" to the web site kingdom, to back each other up. who might the two other people be? On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Donna Snow wrote: > I have been extremely busy this past month or so.. way behind on > updating baypiggies.net.. can someone send along the last couple talks > (and I'll get May up as soon as Jim as final info for the meeting) > > We also have a plone site sitting all lonely and unused at the > moment.. that should be finalized so we can hand the "updating" reigns > over to a couple people.. > > If someone else wants to take over doing the updates (I'm notorious > for putting the updates on the site.. either two minutes before the > meeting.. or not at all) .. I would not be offended.. If not..I'll try > to get the updates up much, much quicker. > > By the way.. this Newbies night.. is something I'd definitely attend. > I fall into the new to programming and to Python category.. but I use > Zope/Plone and should really learn Python too :-) > > Best Regards, > Donna M. Snow, Principal > C Squared Enterprises > illuminate your web > http://www.csquaredtech.com > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> >> may night one >> june alex is in firenze >> july night two >> >> my mistake, sorry. >> >> On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: >> >> > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in >> >> May and the second half in July. There seems no >> >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day >> >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. >> >> >> >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one >> >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June >> >> for the second half. >> > >> > June or July? >> > >> > Collin Winter >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Baypiggies mailing list >> Baypiggies at python.org >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> > From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 21:26:32 2007 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:26:32 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure who we have here who is willing..I'm sure many are able.. ideally.. we get Plone site finished.. and then anyone can update.. (instead of waiting for someone with html skills to do it).. OK so I just tossed a Plone skin on our instance.. here http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone What do you think? If we can reach consensus on look & feel.. we can move speedily forward to get this site loaded up and point here.. assign someone to update meetings (jim this is something you'd be able to do pretty easily) I personally thing I made the words BayPIGgies.. too big.. but I'll adjust that later.. Let's get some input on overall look and we can tweak.. add products and migrate our content.. and therefore open up the site for more "participation".. aka uploading slides and presentations.. adding events (not necessarily the meetings) etc. Oh and this is Plone 2.5.1.. Zope 2.9.5.. Best Regards, Donna M. Snow, Principal C Squared Enterprises illuminate your web http://www.csquaredtech.com On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > > thanks for the note, donna. I forget with > whom i spoke, but the idea has surfaced > to have three persons with "keys" to the > web site kingdom, to back each other up. > who might the two other people be? > > > On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Donna Snow wrote: > > > I have been extremely busy this past month or so.. way behind on > > updating baypiggies.net.. can someone send along the last couple talks > > (and I'll get May up as soon as Jim as final info for the meeting) > > > > We also have a plone site sitting all lonely and unused at the > > moment.. that should be finalized so we can hand the "updating" reigns > > over to a couple people.. > > > > If someone else wants to take over doing the updates (I'm notorious > > for putting the updates on the site.. either two minutes before the > > meeting.. or not at all) .. I would not be offended.. If not..I'll try > > to get the updates up much, much quicker. > > > > By the way.. this Newbies night.. is something I'd definitely attend. > > I fall into the new to programming and to Python category.. but I use > > Zope/Plone and should really learn Python too :-) > > > > Best Regards, > > Donna M. Snow, Principal > > C Squared Enterprises > > illuminate your web > > http://www.csquaredtech.com > > > > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > >> > >> may night one > >> june alex is in firenze > >> july night two > >> > >> my mistake, sorry. > >> > >> On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: > >> > >> > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > >> >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in > >> >> May and the second half in July. There seems no > >> >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day > >> >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. > >> >> > >> >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one > >> >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June > >> >> for the second half. > >> > > >> > June or July? > >> > > >> > Collin Winter > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Baypiggies mailing list > >> Baypiggies at python.org > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > >> > > > > From jim at well.com Tue Apr 24 22:33:02 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:33:02 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> Message-ID: my way is to log in, su - as root, bring up vi and type in html. i'll take the job of updating meeting info in the approved manner, of course. On Apr 24, 2007, at 12:26 PM, Donna Snow wrote: > I'm not sure who we have here who is willing..I'm sure many are able.. > ideally.. we get Plone site finished.. and then anyone can update.. > (instead of waiting for someone with html skills to do it).. > > OK so I just tossed a Plone skin on our instance.. here > http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone > > What do you think? If we can reach consensus on look & feel.. we can > move speedily forward to get this site loaded up and point here.. > assign someone to update meetings (jim this is something you'd be able > to do pretty easily) > > I personally thing I made the words BayPIGgies.. too big.. but I'll > adjust that later.. > > Let's get some input on overall look and we can tweak.. add products > and migrate our content.. and therefore open up the site for more > "participation".. aka uploading slides and presentations.. adding > events (not necessarily the meetings) etc. > > Oh and this is Plone 2.5.1.. Zope 2.9.5.. > > Best Regards, > Donna M. Snow, Principal > C Squared Enterprises > illuminate your web > http://www.csquaredtech.com > > > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> >> thanks for the note, donna. I forget with >> whom i spoke, but the idea has surfaced >> to have three persons with "keys" to the >> web site kingdom, to back each other up. >> who might the two other people be? >> >> >> On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Donna Snow wrote: >> >> > I have been extremely busy this past month or so.. way behind on >> > updating baypiggies.net.. can someone send along the last couple >> talks >> > (and I'll get May up as soon as Jim as final info for the meeting) >> > >> > We also have a plone site sitting all lonely and unused at the >> > moment.. that should be finalized so we can hand the "updating" >> reigns >> > over to a couple people.. >> > >> > If someone else wants to take over doing the updates (I'm notorious >> > for putting the updates on the site.. either two minutes before the >> > meeting.. or not at all) .. I would not be offended.. If not..I'll >> try >> > to get the updates up much, much quicker. >> > >> > By the way.. this Newbies night.. is something I'd definitely >> attend. >> > I fall into the new to programming and to Python category.. but I >> use >> > Zope/Plone and should really learn Python too :-) >> > >> > Best Regards, >> > Donna M. Snow, Principal >> > C Squared Enterprises >> > illuminate your web >> > http://www.csquaredtech.com >> > >> > >> > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> >> >> >> may night one >> >> june alex is in firenze >> >> july night two >> >> >> >> my mistake, sorry. >> >> >> >> On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: >> >> >> >> > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: >> >> >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in >> >> >> May and the second half in July. There seems no >> >> >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day >> >> >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. >> >> >> >> >> >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one >> >> >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June >> >> >> for the second half. >> >> > >> >> > June or July? >> >> > >> >> > Collin Winter >> >> > >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Baypiggies mailing list >> >> Baypiggies at python.org >> >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: >> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies >> >> >> > >> >> > From donnamsnow at gmail.com Tue Apr 24 23:13:01 2007 From: donnamsnow at gmail.com (Donna Snow) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 14:13:01 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Plone site Message-ID: http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone Please feel free to login to the site.. and experiment with the various types of content that can be added.. I've set the default state for the site to "private".. everyone gets a member folder where you can upload your presentations or info you want to share.. Once you login.. look at the links below the green navigation bar.. this is your personal toolbar.. the my folder link is of course..your folder to store files and create folders and pages.. if you click on the link with your username.. you can modify your preferences.. including uploading a picture so if someone goes to your page http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone/author/baypiggies they can see a pic (or logo) if that's what you want.. If you want something to be public.. you need to publish it (of course).. The only way to really learn this system.. is to play with it.. so please.. feel free to dig in.. I can't guarantee I'll get back to you right away with answers.. but I'll try.. :-) My recommend is to post your question about the Plone site..to the list.. and anyone who has some background. can respond.. If there are any issues with logging in.. please let me know. Donna From rdm at cfcl.com Wed Apr 25 02:06:50 2007 From: rdm at cfcl.com (Rich Morin) Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:06:50 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] BASS Meeting (SF), Wed. April 25 Message-ID: The Beer and Scripting SIG rides again! If you'd like to eat good Italian food, chat with other local scripters, and possibly take a look at laptop-demoed scripting hacks, this is the place to do it! For your convenience, here are the critical details: Date: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 (4th. Wed.) Time: 8:00 pm Place: Pasquales Pizzeria 701 Irving St. (At 8th. Ave.) San Francisco, California, USA 415/661-2140 -r -- http://www.cfcl.com/rdm Rich Morin http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/resume rdm at cfcl.com http://www.cfcl.com/rdm/weblog +1 650-873-7841 Technical editing and writing, programming, and web development From hcharnaw at vmware.com Mon Apr 23 21:50:39 2007 From: hcharnaw at vmware.com (Hayley Charnaw (c)) Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:50:39 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] VMware Seeking Python Engineer Message-ID: <040EC1DE5CE40647A1E7BEECD85F62CB06D17FEA@PA-EXCH04.vmware.com> Software Engineer - ESX Installation and Deployment Location: Palo Alto, CA This R&D position resides in our Core Technologies Group and will be a part of our Console Operating System and Applications team. The engineer in this role will gain exposure to many parts of our core OS and our applications. As a result of this exposure, he/she will interface with many groups in and outside of R&D. Responsibilities: This position's primary role is in the design and implementation of software for ESX installation, deployment and distribution. Work will involve interaction with product management and will require work with releases of new operating system versions, driver updates, and building Red Hat Package Management (RPM) packages. Most of the coding will be in done in Python with some limited use of Perl and C. Requirements: BS in Computer Science or equivalent. Fluent in the use of Python and other scripting languages. Experienced in Linux administration and configuration. Experience with RPM's. Experience building a Linux distribution or Linux rescue disk is preferred C and C++ programming is desirable. Experience with GTK or Glade a plus. Experience with YUM a plus. Interested parties please contact Hayley Charnaw hcharnaw at vmware.com or 650-475-5377 Hayley Charnaw Recruiter, R&D 650-475-5377 Direct Let's Connect! http://www.linkedin.com/in/hayleycharnaw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070423/9bd8688a/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Software Engineer ESX Installation & Deployment.doc Type: application/msword Size: 30720 bytes Desc: Software Engineer ESX Installation & Deployment.doc Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/baypiggies/attachments/20070423/9bd8688a/attachment-0001.doc From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 16:23:53 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 07:23:53 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> Message-ID: +1 Looks beautiful. On 4/24/07, Donna Snow wrote: > I'm not sure who we have here who is willing..I'm sure many are able.. > ideally.. we get Plone site finished.. and then anyone can update.. > (instead of waiting for someone with html skills to do it).. > > OK so I just tossed a Plone skin on our instance.. here > http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone > > What do you think? If we can reach consensus on look & feel.. we can > move speedily forward to get this site loaded up and point here.. > assign someone to update meetings (jim this is something you'd be able > to do pretty easily) > > I personally thing I made the words BayPIGgies.. too big.. but I'll > adjust that later.. > > Let's get some input on overall look and we can tweak.. add products > and migrate our content.. and therefore open up the site for more > "participation".. aka uploading slides and presentations.. adding > events (not necessarily the meetings) etc. > > Oh and this is Plone 2.5.1.. Zope 2.9.5.. > > Best Regards, > Donna M. Snow, Principal > C Squared Enterprises > illuminate your web > http://www.csquaredtech.com > > > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > > > > thanks for the note, donna. I forget with > > whom i spoke, but the idea has surfaced > > to have three persons with "keys" to the > > web site kingdom, to back each other up. > > who might the two other people be? > > > > > > On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Donna Snow wrote: > > > > > I have been extremely busy this past month or so.. way behind on > > > updating baypiggies.net.. can someone send along the last couple talks > > > (and I'll get May up as soon as Jim as final info for the meeting) > > > > > > We also have a plone site sitting all lonely and unused at the > > > moment.. that should be finalized so we can hand the "updating" reigns > > > over to a couple people.. > > > > > > If someone else wants to take over doing the updates (I'm notorious > > > for putting the updates on the site.. either two minutes before the > > > meeting.. or not at all) .. I would not be offended.. If not..I'll try > > > to get the updates up much, much quicker. > > > > > > By the way.. this Newbies night.. is something I'd definitely attend. > > > I fall into the new to programming and to Python category.. but I use > > > Zope/Plone and should really learn Python too :-) > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > Donna M. Snow, Principal > > > C Squared Enterprises > > > illuminate your web > > > http://www.csquaredtech.com > > > > > > > > > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > > >> > > >> may night one > > >> june alex is in firenze > > >> july night two > > >> > > >> my mistake, sorry. > > >> > > >> On Apr 24, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Collin Winter wrote: > > >> > > >> > On 4/24/07, jim stockford wrote: > > >> >> I see no harm in having the first half of his talk in > > >> >> May and the second half in July. There seems no > > >> >> significant difference in continuity between a 30-day > > >> >> and a 60-day lapse between talks. > > >> >> > > >> >> So that's the proposal: Two Newbies Nights, one > > >> >> in May for the first half of Alex' talk, and one in June > > >> >> for the second half. > > >> > > > >> > June or July? > > >> > > > >> > Collin Winter > > >> > > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Baypiggies mailing list > > >> Baypiggies at python.org > > >> To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > > >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Baypiggies mailing list > Baypiggies at python.org > To change your subscription options or unsubscribe: > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/baypiggies > -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Wed Apr 25 21:44:35 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:44:35 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters Message-ID: Hi, I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML escaping, SQL injection, etc. Thanks, -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From DennisR at dair.com Wed Apr 25 22:02:55 2007 From: DennisR at dair.com (Dennis Reinhardt) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 13:02:55 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> At 12:44 PM 4/25/2007, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: >using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". First we have to re-write this. This regex matches on any string having between 1 and 128 characters immediately preceding the end of string. So, a string 10 characters long would match because a length 10 string has 1 character preceding end. A string 1000 characters long would match as well. A regex of r"^.{1,128}$" would match only when there are between 1 and 128 characters and no more or no less between start and end. Now, we can define exceptions which prevent matching. A regex of r"^[^\r\n]{1,128}$" will match the same size strings but fail if either an embedded CR or LF is included. The extension to other control characters is easy. Yeah, I know I used "^" twice to mean two different things (start of string and not, respectively). That is just regex language, not a mistake on my part. Regards, Dennis --------------------------------- | Dennis | DennisR at dair.com | | Reinhardt | http://www.dair.com | --------------------------------- From dyoo at cs.wpi.edu Wed Apr 25 22:22:51 2007 From: dyoo at cs.wpi.edu (Daniel Yoo) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 16:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> Message-ID: Hi JJ, The question is slightly underdefined still; do you mind if I ask a few more questions? > I accept UTF-8 strings and decode them to unicode objects. Ok, so what we really have are bytes whose intended interpretation is utf-8, yes? Is the input a unicode string? Or is it rather a sequence of bytes (which Python often uses a regular string for)? > I would like to check that the strings are no longer than 128 characters Unfortunately, "characters" is ambiguous and has at least two meanings these days. Do you mean 128 bytes, or 128 unicode characters? There's a slight ambiguity here that needs to be cleared up before this problem can be attacked. Also, what part of this really requires regular expressions here? What you've shown so far restricts a string by length, but that's already a simpler conditional: len(some_string) < 128 I have to assume it has something to do with the definition of reasonableness. Does the check for reasonableness have to happen at the same time as the test for length? Must the check for reasonableness happen before decoding bytes assuming a utf-8 interpretation? Or can something like: return (len(some_string < 128 and is_reasonable(decode(some_string, 'utf-8'))) suffice? > By "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > characters. What do you mean by a "control character"? Can you be more specific about the context that you're trying to guard? I apologize about being pedantic, but form validation needs to be handled methodically to be valuable. Best of wishes! From kelly at nttmcl.com Wed Apr 25 23:32:48 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:32:48 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:: > Hi, > > I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode > them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are > no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm > using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By > "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do > this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. > Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more > than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML > escaping, SQL injection, etc. > > Thanks, > -jj > JJ, It ain't pretty, but how about this: ur"(?u)^[\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" If python's re module implemented POSIX named character classes you could do this: r"(?u)^[^[:cntrl:]]{1,128}$" Or if it supported Unicode regular expressions as detailed in http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/, you could do this: r"(?u)^\P{Control}{1,128}$" But alas, we aren't there yet. :( https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=355470&aid=1528154&group_id=5470 I hope that works for you, Kelly From kelly at nttmcl.com Wed Apr 25 23:38:34 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:38:34 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> References: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> Message-ID: <462FCA5A.6030803@nttmcl.com> Kelly Yancey wrote:: > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:: >> Hi, >> >> I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode >> them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are >> no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm >> using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By >> "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control >> characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do >> this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. >> Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more >> than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML >> escaping, SQL injection, etc. >> >> Thanks, >> -jj >> > > JJ, > > It ain't pretty, but how about this: > > ur"(?u)^[\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" > Oops, I forgot to invert the match after pasting it into the email: ur"(?u)^[^\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" Kelly > If python's re module implemented POSIX named character classes you > could do this: > r"(?u)^[^[:cntrl:]]{1,128}$" > > Or if it supported Unicode regular expressions as detailed in > http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/, you could do this: > r"(?u)^\P{Control}{1,128}$" > > But alas, we aren't there yet. :( > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=355470&aid=1528154&group_id=5470 > > > I hope that works for you, > > Kelly > > > -- Kelly Yancey http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 20:38:06 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:38:06 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> Message-ID: On 4/25/07, Dennis Reinhardt wrote: > At 12:44 PM 4/25/2007, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > >using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". > > First we have to re-write this. This regex matches on any string having > between 1 and 128 characters immediately preceding the end of string. So, > a string 10 characters long would match because a length 10 string has 1 > character preceding end. A string 1000 characters long would match as well. "re.match" implies "^", whereas "re.search" doesn't ;) > A regex of r"^.{1,128}$" would match only when there are between 1 and 128 > characters and no more or no less between start and end. > > Now, we can define exceptions which prevent matching. A regex of > r"^[^\r\n]{1,128}$" will match the same size strings but fail if either an > embedded CR or LF is included. The extension to other control characters > is easy. Yeah, but I don't have a perfectly authoritative set. However, I know that Unicode does. > Yeah, I know I used "^" twice to mean two different things (start of string > and not, respectively). That is just regex language, not a mistake on my part. I know ;) Thanks, -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 20:45:13 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:45:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> Message-ID: On 4/25/07, Daniel Yoo wrote: > Hi JJ, > > The question is slightly underdefined still; do you mind if I ask a few > more questions? > > > > I accept UTF-8 strings and decode them to unicode objects. > > Ok, so what we really have are bytes whose intended interpretation is > utf-8, yes? > Is the input a unicode string? Or is it rather a sequence of > bytes (which Python often uses a regular string for)? I have Python unicode objects, i.e. the thing you get back when you do "whatever".decode('utf-8') > > I would like to check that the strings are no longer than 128 characters > > Unfortunately, "characters" is ambiguous and has at least two meanings > these days. Do you mean 128 bytes, or 128 unicode characters? There's a > slight ambiguity here that needs to be cleared up before this problem can > be attacked. Naturally ;) Furthermore, Unicode complicates this mess even more by permitting some characters to be represented in multiple ways. > Also, what part of this really requires regular expressions here? What > you've shown so far restricts a string by length, but that's already a > simpler conditional: > > len(some_string) < 128 > > I have to assume it has something to do with the definition of > reasonableness. Exactly. I want it to be 128 *characters* or less, and I want all of those characters to be *reasonable* for some unclear definition of reasonableness. I know that control characters are clearly unreasonable. I'm not sure if I should restrict anything else. > Does the check for reasonableness have to happen at the same time as the > test for length? Not necessarily. > Must the check for reasonableness happen before decoding > bytes assuming a utf-8 interpretation? Or can something like: > > return (len(some_string < 128 and > is_reasonable(decode(some_string, 'utf-8'))) > > suffice? The decoding happens first. Then I check for *character* length and "reasonableness". > > By "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > > characters. > > What do you mean by a "control character"? Can you be more specific about > the context that you're trying to guard? Back space characters, newlines, etc. > I apologize about being pedantic, but form validation needs to be handled > methodically to be valuable. Agreed. That's why I'm asking ;) Thanks Daniel! -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Thu Apr 26 20:49:19 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 11:49:19 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: <462FBEEE.5060807@ingres.com> References: <462FBEEE.5060807@ingres.com> Message-ID: On 4/25/07, Chris Clark wrote: > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > > I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode > > them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are > > no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm > > using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By > > "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > > characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do > > this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. > > Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more > > than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML > > escaping, SQL injection, etc. > > > > Mailing you privately in case I completely misunderstood and made this > more complex than it needs to be :-) Nope, I think you understand the problem completely, so I'm going to CC the list. Your comments below are very helpful! > I don't have an answer but a couple of things to research/consider: > > * I'm assuming you mean validating unicode strings (not validating > the utf-8 encoded bytes). Yep. > * What is a control character, I think the Unicode standard says > that codepoints in the range U+2400 to U+2421 are control > characters BUT this doesn't include things like U+000D which is a > carriage return. Now we're on the same page! :) > * What is a white space character; there are lots of white space > characters, e.g. 0000, 200C..200F,202A..202E, 206A..206F, FEFF but > if you check what some of these are they are defined as things > that control behavior (e.g. U+200F) and they don't include CR/LF!. :) > You may find that what is more important is what should be the field > contain, what is it intended to be used for rather than what is not allowed. I want to restrict the user to "reasonable things that a name might contain". Clearly, a tab is invalid. However, I don't know the regex / unicode syntax to express that I want "normal characters". Thanks, -jj -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From tungwaiyip at yahoo.com Thu Apr 26 21:06:09 2007 From: tungwaiyip at yahoo.com (Tung Wai Yip) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 12:06:09 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20070425125239.00bc9270@localhost> Message-ID: > The decoding happens first. Then I check for *character* length and > "reasonableness". > >> > By "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control >> > characters. >> >> What do you mean by a "control character"? Can you be more specific >> about >> the context that you're trying to guard? > > Back space characters, newlines, etc. You can pretty check for ord(c) < 32 for control characters. Subsequently watch out for things like < or " for code injection. Anything outside of the ASCII range is pretty much safe characters. I'm not aware of any usage of those as control characters. Only other caveat I can think of is when you do .decode('UTF-8'), it may fail as not all binary sequences are valid UTF-8. Perhaps it may come from faulty web crawler or malicious code. Wai Yip From dyoo at cs.wpi.edu Thu Apr 26 21:47:26 2007 From: dyoo at cs.wpi.edu (Daniel Yoo) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:47:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: <462FBEEE.5060807@ingres.com> Message-ID: > I want to restrict the user to "reasonable things that a name might > contain". Clearly, a tab is invalid. However, I don't know the regex / > unicode syntax to express that I want "normal characters". Hi JJ, Ok, knowing this context helps a lot. According to: http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html the definition of "\w" can incorporate unicode-ness if we set the UNICODE flag. For example, let's say I have some text so that: ################################################################## >>> text.encode('utf-8') '\xed\x95\x98\xeb\xa3\xa8\xeb\x8f\x99\xec\x95\x88 IDLE\xea\xb0\x80\xec\xa7\x80\xea\xb3\xa0 \xeb\x86\x80\xea\xb8\xb0' ################################################################## If I'm looking for all the words in the unicode string 'text', the following won't work very well: ############################ >>> import re >>> re.findall('\\w+', text) [u'IDLE'] ############################ The regular expression patter there wasn't unicode aware. However, this one will work: ######################################################################### >>> re.findall('(?u)\\w+', text) [u'\ud558\ub8e8\ub3d9\uc548', u'IDLE\uac00\uc9c0\uace0', u'\ub180\uae30'] ######################################################################### and now we can catch those three words as expected. (Just for reference, that unicoded string was the header at the top of http://hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dyoo/python/idle_intro/IDLE_korean.html.) Similarly, '\W' will catch non-word characters, so as long as you set the unicode flag up --- either with "(?u)" or by feeding in the explicit re.UNICODE flag to re.compile() --- you should be fine. Good luck! From kelly at nttmcl.com Thu Apr 26 22:18:21 2007 From: kelly at nttmcl.com (Kelly Yancey) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 13:18:21 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: <462FBEEE.5060807@ingres.com> Message-ID: <4631090D.20102@nttmcl.com> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:: > On 4/25/07, Chris Clark wrote: >> Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: >>> I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode >>> them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are >>> no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm >>> using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By >>> "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control >>> characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do >>> this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. >>> Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more >>> than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML >>> escaping, SQL injection, etc. >>> >> Mailing you privately in case I completely misunderstood and made this >> more complex than it needs to be :-) > > Nope, I think you understand the problem completely, so I'm going to > CC the list. Your comments below are very helpful! > >> I don't have an answer but a couple of things to research/consider: >> >> * I'm assuming you mean validating unicode strings (not validating >> the utf-8 encoded bytes). > > Yep. > >> * What is a control character, I think the Unicode standard says >> that codepoints in the range U+2400 to U+2421 are control >> characters BUT this doesn't include things like U+000D which is a >> carriage return. > > Now we're on the same page! :) According to the Unicode glossary (http://unicode.org/glossary/index.html#control_codes), control characters are "U+0000..U+001F and U+007F..U+009F". I believe the regex I posted yesterday covered that range exactly. > >> * What is a white space character; there are lots of white space >> characters, e.g. 0000, 200C..200F,202A..202E, 206A..206F, FEFF but >> if you check what some of these are they are defined as things >> that control behavior (e.g. U+200F) and they don't include CR/LF!. > > :) > >> You may find that what is more important is what should be the field >> contain, what is it intended to be used for rather than what is not allowed. > > I want to restrict the user to "reasonable things that a name might > contain". Clearly, a tab is invalid. However, I don't know the regex > / unicode syntax to express that I want "normal characters". > There is a well-defined regular expression syntax for matching unicode characters that would let you do what you want, except that Python does not implement it yet (as of 2.5): http://unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/#Categories Until it is implemented, I'm afraid you don't have any choice but to list the ranges of characters you want to accept or reject explicitely. For example, the regex I posted yesterday matched strings of up to 128 characters where none of the characters were Unicode control characters (see definition of a control character above): ur"(?u)^[^\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" Kelly Kelly Yancey -- http://kbyanc.blogspot.com/ From ken at seehart.com Fri Apr 27 04:57:07 2007 From: ken at seehart.com (Ken Seehart) Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:57:07 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] newbies night proposal In-Reply-To: References: <26e15d7d72c8a0d129eb9626f2902352@well.com> <43aa6ff70704241100o74ab2d9bl412c715d22642fc0@mail.gmail.com> <904da855eaa3070808bd8baaa5c38a8a@well.com> <25b97bba367a091b9827e9d39078f481@well.com> Message-ID: <46316683.4080406@seehart.com> +1 me too. Hey, shouldn't the colors be a thematic pink and gray? (just kidding, oink!) Nice job! I want to learn more Plone! - Ken Seehart Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > +1 Looks beautiful. > > On 4/24/07, Donna Snow wrote: > >> I'm not sure who we have here who is willing..I'm sure many are able.. >> ideally.. we get Plone site finished.. and then anyone can update.. >> (instead of waiting for someone with html skills to do it).. >> >> OK so I just tossed a Plone skin on our instance.. here >> http://www.baypiggies.net/new/plone >> >> What do you think? If we can reach consensus on look & feel.. we can >> move speedily forward to get this site loaded up and point here.. >> assign someone to update meetings (jim this is something you'd be able >> to do pretty easily) >> >> I personally thing I made the words BayPIGgies.. too big.. but I'll >> adjust that later.. >> >> Let's get some input on overall look and we can tweak.. add products >> and migrate our content.. and therefore open up the site for more >> "participation".. aka uploading slides and presentations.. adding >> events (not necessarily the meetings) etc. >> >> Oh and this is Plone 2.5.1.. Zope 2.9.5.. >> >> Best Regards, >> Donna M. Snow, Principal >> C Squared Enterprises >> illuminate your web >> http://www.csquaredtech.com >> >> From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 20:34:11 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:34:11 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> References: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Kelly, I suspect you've nailed it! Best Regards, -jj On 4/25/07, Kelly Yancey wrote: > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:: > > Hi, > > > > I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode > > them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are > > no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm > > using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By > > "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > > characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do > > this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. > > Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more > > than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML > > escaping, SQL injection, etc. > > > > Thanks, > > -jj > > > > JJ, > > It ain't pretty, but how about this: > > ur"(?u)^[\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" > > If python's re module implemented POSIX named character classes you > could do this: > r"(?u)^[^[:cntrl:]]{1,128}$" > > Or if it supported Unicode regular expressions as detailed in > http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/, you could do this: > r"(?u)^\P{Control}{1,128}$" > > But alas, we aren't there yet. :( > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=355470&aid=1528154&group_id=5470 > > I hope that works for you, > > Kelly > > > -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From jjinux at gmail.com Fri Apr 27 20:39:13 2007 From: jjinux at gmail.com (Shannon -jj Behrens) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:39:13 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] quick question: regex to stop naughty control characters In-Reply-To: References: <462FC900.6020504@nttmcl.com> Message-ID: Thanks, guys! -jj On 4/27/07, Shannon -jj Behrens wrote: > Thanks, Kelly, I suspect you've nailed it! > > Best Regards, > -jj > > On 4/25/07, Kelly Yancey wrote: > > Shannon -jj Behrens wrote:: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I'm doing some form validation. I accept UTF-8 strings and decode > > > them to unicode objects. I would like to check that the strings are > > > no longer than 128 characters, and that they are "reasonable". I'm > > > using FormEncode with a regex that looks like r".{1,128}$". By > > > "reasonable", I think the only thing I want to prevent are control > > > characters. Now, I'm sure some Unicode whiz out there knows how to do > > > this with some funky Unicode regex magic, but I don't know how. > > > Anyone know the right way to do this? Should I be worried about more > > > than just control characters? I'm already taking care of HTML > > > escaping, SQL injection, etc. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > -jj > > > > > > > JJ, > > > > It ain't pretty, but how about this: > > > > ur"(?u)^[\u0000-\u001f\u007f-\u009f]{1,128}$" > > > > If python's re module implemented POSIX named character classes you > > could do this: > > r"(?u)^[^[:cntrl:]]{1,128}$" > > > > Or if it supported Unicode regular expressions as detailed in > > http://www.unicode.org/unicode/reports/tr18/, you could do this: > > r"(?u)^\P{Control}{1,128}$" > > > > But alas, we aren't there yet. :( > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=355470&aid=1528154&group_id=5470 > > > > I hope that works for you, > > > > Kelly > > > > > > > > > -- > http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ > -- http://jjinux.blogspot.com/ From cappy2112 at gmail.com Mon Apr 30 06:44:14 2007 From: cappy2112 at gmail.com (Tony Cappellini) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 21:44:14 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] Fwd:Software Engineer, Python Message-ID: <8249c4ac0704292144u4f5c79aeqcb5b91e041cbd9f2@mail.gmail.com> Contact information at the bottom of the post Software Engineer, Python My client manages some of the largest open-source and enterprise software development sites in the world. Their core products are both market leaders, and they have the customer list to prove it. In addition, they are the corporate sponsor of the open-source version control software, and they encourage the use and development of open-source software internally. They develop their own products their own tools, so they use and depend on the tools that they are developing on a daily basis. In its first year out in the market, one of their products was a finalist for the 2007 SIIA CODiE awards in the "Best Distributed Computing Solution" category. POSITION OVERVIEW As part of a small, dedicated team, you will be working across all areas of the product, from back-end database and system management code, to front-end web page implementation, and everything in between. This product is software that provisions and manages machines (virtual and physical) for distributed software development, build, and test teams. Supported hardware is x86, x86_64, and Sparc; supported operating systems are Linux, Windows XP/2003, and Solaris, with more to come. Besides being a useful and interesting product, it's fun to use and fun to work on, and it is meeting with great success and adoption in their target market. RESPONSIBILITIES/REQUIREMENTS ? Web application development using Python. WSGI and mod_python experience a plus. Be prepared to talk about previous web apps you developed, what worked and what didn't. ? Some familiarity with network installation of operating systems and network management tools. ? Packaging and deployment of software for hosted and onsite deployments. ? Excellent knowledge of algorithms and data structures. ? SQL and object-relational mapping/DAO ? Willingness to try new things and take on new tasks in a very fast-moving development and release process. ? Strong communications skills. Be able to write specs and document your work. ? Plus: experience with Subversion's Python bindings. ? Plus: system administration experience ? Plus: AJAX/JSON experience. ? Plus: experience with automated test frameworks ? Plus: Have contributed code to open-source projects. Warmest Regards, Abby Knight EQQUS Technologies 555 Bryant Street, Suite 700 Palo Alto, CA 94301 650-234-1000 ext. 355 aknight at eqqus.com From jim at well.com Mon Apr 30 23:23:58 2007 From: jim at well.com (jim stockford) Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:23:58 -0700 Subject: [Baypiggies] advance notice of Newbies Night, May 10 Message-ID: <6840bf62a672da9166e5e6027e3446dc@well.com> On May 10 at Google, bayPIGgies will feature Newbies Night. Alex Martelli will present the first half of his Python for Programmers talk, with time for questions and answers. The talk presents an overview of current features of the Python programming language. It will be based on slides available as a PDF you can download from http://www.aleax.it/goo_py4prog.pdf this "newbie night" is suitable for people who already have programming experience in other languages. Those who are entirely new to programming are welcome, but are warned-- the talk presumes familiarity with programming concepts.