From pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in  Tue Oct  1 06:01:42 2013
From: pranjal.mittal.ece10 at iitbhu.ac.in (Pranjal Mittal)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 09:31:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Kivy (Was: Re: What are you using for developing
 desktop GUIs?)
In-Reply-To: <CAFkt3UMiTU1UCtPn0A=V77FgktNLFcae=ioCP2NOiST9B7qSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFkt3UMiTU1UCtPn0A=V77FgktNLFcae=ioCP2NOiST9B7qSgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALiP1oL1CsX7Y9GQXPNpk7EWV3wdTuCD0zMCqyoLstZh0nQbzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, he is mentoring my colleague in his Kivy designer project.

His Irc handle is: qua-non

Should I send you his email Id?
 On Sep 30, 2013 5:03 PM, "Sriram Karra" <karra.etc at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Kivy:
>
> It appears one of the core Kivy developers (
> https://plus.google.com/111271939129335069945/posts - Akshay) is "from
> India". Does anyone know more about him?
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com  Tue Oct  1 11:51:10 2013
From: venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com (Venu Murthy)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:21:10 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e.
	its free now!
Message-ID: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Comrades!

I am happy to share with the joyful news that my favourite language -
Python and it's one of the best IDE - pycharm has been opensourced and can
be downloaded from this link

http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/

Enjoy using it and writing code that is beautiful!


Best regards,
Venu

---
*"Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high
intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution.... -- Aristotle*

From mandarvaze at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 04:49:15 2013
From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:19:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>

Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
(python related) forum that I can't wait to use it

-Mandar


On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Venu Murthy <venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com>wrote:

> Hello Comrades!
>
> I am happy to share with the joyful news that my favourite language -
> Python and it's one of the best IDE - pycharm has been opensourced and can
> be downloaded from this link
>
> http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
>
> Enjoy using it and writing code that is beautiful!
>
>
> Best regards,
> Venu
>
> ---
> *"Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high
> intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution.... -- Aristotle*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 06:10:45 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:40:45 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
<mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it

Any links to the discussions?
>
> -Mandar
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Venu Murthy <venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello Comrades!
>>
>> I am happy to share with the joyful news that my favourite language -
>> Python and it's one of the best IDE - pycharm has been opensourced and can
>> be downloaded from this link
>>
>> http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
>>
>> Enjoy using it and writing code that is beautiful!
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Venu
>>
>> ---
>> *"Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high
>> intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution.... -- Aristotle*
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From mandarvaze at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 07:29:56 2013
From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:59:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>
> Any links to the discussions?
>

>From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking (every
so often) what is the best IDE
pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/

If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
will always show up.
The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that is
possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
around at that time.

-Mandar

From mandarvaze at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 07:31:56 2013
From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:01:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>

http://bit.ly/1dXgwqD

-Mandar


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <
mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
>> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
>> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
>> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>>
>> Any links to the discussions?
>>
>
> From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking
> (every so often) what is the best IDE
> pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/
>
> If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
> will always show up.
> The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that
> is possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
> around at that time.
>
> -Mandar
>

From rohitkav123 at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 08:04:33 2013
From: rohitkav123 at gmail.com (Rohit kumar)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:34:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>

Just a quick question. Are you guys talking about open source licensed
IDE or community edition of this IDE for a project which should be
online for 3 months than could get the full featured software. Since
this offer was in pycharm earlier isn't it. or we can use fully
featured just downloading it.

On 10/3/13, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> http://bit.ly/1dXgwqD
>
> -Mandar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <
> mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene
>> <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
>>> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
>>> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
>>> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>>>
>>> Any links to the discussions?
>>>
>>
>> From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking
>> (every so often) what is the best IDE
>> pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.
>>
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/
>>
>> If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
>> will always show up.
>> The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that
>> is possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
>> around at that time.
>>
>> -Mandar
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>


-- 
Rohit Kumar A V
Mob: +91-9538662369

"Save paper, think before taking any print if necessary for this document"

From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Thu Oct  3 08:07:35 2013
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:37:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
	i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>
 (Rohit kumar's message of "Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:34:33 +0530")
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Rohit kumar <rohitkav123 at gmail.com> writes:

> Just a quick question. Are you guys talking about open source licensed
> IDE or community edition of this IDE for a project which should be
> online for 3 months than could get the full featured software. Since
> this offer was in pycharm earlier isn't it. or we can use fully
> featured just downloading it.

OT. I remember when they first demoed pycharm at PyCon and they said
something like, it has compatibility features if you're coming from
"normal editors" like vim or emacs. He said that and then started
pycharm, it crashed and took down the OS with it. :)

 [...]


-- 
Cordially,
Noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From mandarvaze at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 08:17:52 2013
From: mandarvaze at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?TWFuZGFyIFZhemUgLyDgpK7gpILgpKbgpL7gpLAg4KS14KSd4KWH?=)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:47:52 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CADDYdft6XY0jNkOqcf7WNyBK2em6VvcsjfDj59ha68FHo8Qsyw@mail.gmail.com>

> OT. I remember when they first demoed pycharm at PyCon and they said
> something like, it has compatibility features if you're coming from
> "normal editors" like vim or emacs. He said that and then started
> pycharm, it crashed and took down the OS with it. :)
>

Which year's pycon ?
Which OS ?

-Mandar

From anandpillai at letterboxes.org  Thu Oct  3 08:20:24 2013
From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:50:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <524D0CA8.5090705@letterboxes.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday 03 October 2013 11:37 AM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote:
> Rohit kumar <rohitkav123 at gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> Just a quick question. Are you guys talking about open source
>> licensed IDE or community edition of this IDE for a project which
>> should be online for 3 months than could get the full featured
>> software. Since this offer was in pycharm earlier isn't it. or we
>> can use fully featured just downloading it.
> 
> OT. I remember when they first demoed pycharm at PyCon and they
> said something like, it has compatibility features if you're coming
> from "normal editors" like vim or emacs. He said that and then
> started pycharm, it crashed and took down the OS with it. :)

Charming :)


> 
> [...]
> 
> 


- -- 
Regards,

- --Anand

-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Architect/Consultant
anandpillai at letterboxes.org

Please note my updated email address <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>.
Kindly update your address books.

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From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Thu Oct  3 08:24:06 2013
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:54:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
	i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADDYdft6XY0jNkOqcf7WNyBK2em6VvcsjfDj59ha68FHo8Qsyw@mail.gmail.com>
 (Mandar Vaze's message of "Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:47:52 +0530")
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <87k3hu28go.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
 <CADDYdft6XY0jNkOqcf7WNyBK2em6VvcsjfDj59ha68FHo8Qsyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87d2nm27p5.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

"Mandar Vaze / ????? ???" <mandarvaze at gmail.com> writes:

>> OT. I remember when they first demoed pycharm at PyCon and they said
>> something like, it has compatibility features if you're coming from
>> "normal editors" like vim or emacs. He said that and then started
>> pycharm, it crashed and took down the OS with it. :)
>>
>
> Which year's pycon ?

Atlanta. 2010 or 2011. Don't remember which one.

> Which OS ?

Windows I think.

[...]


-- 
Cordially,
Noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From venum at thoughtworks.com  Thu Oct  3 08:54:27 2013
From: venum at thoughtworks.com (Venu Murthy)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 12:24:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>

As far as I know, this is permanent move Rahul, Pycharm is going to have
two versions, the basic one is opensourced for ever and then there one with
more bells and whistles which is licensed.


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, <bangpypers-request at python.org> wrote:

> Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to
>         bangpypers at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         bangpypers-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         bangpypers-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e. its
>       free now! (Mandar Vaze / ????? ???)
>    2. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e. its
>       free now! (Dhananjay Nene)
>    3. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e. its
>       free now! (Mandar Vaze / ????? ???)
>    4. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e. its
>       free now! (Mandar Vaze / ????? ???)
>    5. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced i.e. its
>       free now! (Rohit kumar)
>    6. Re: the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced       i.e. its
>       free now! (Noufal Ibrahim)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 08:19:15 +0530
> From: Mandar Vaze / ????? ???  <mandarvaze at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>
> -Mandar
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Venu Murthy <venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello Comrades!
> >
> > I am happy to share with the joyful news that my favourite language -
> > Python and it's one of the best IDE - pycharm has been opensourced and
> can
> > be downloaded from this link
> >
> > http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
> >
> > Enjoy using it and writing code that is beautiful!
> >
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Venu
> >
> > ---
> > *"Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high
> > intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution.... -- Aristotle*
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 09:40:45 +0530
> From: Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>
> Any links to the discussions?
> >
> > -Mandar
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Venu Murthy <
> venu.murthy at thoughtworks.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Comrades!
> >>
> >> I am happy to share with the joyful news that my favourite language -
> >> Python and it's one of the best IDE - pycharm has been opensourced and
> can
> >> be downloaded from this link
> >>
> >> http://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/
> >>
> >> Enjoy using it and writing code that is beautiful!
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> Venu
> >>
> >> ---
> >> *"Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high
> >> intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution.... -- Aristotle*
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BangPypers mailing list
> >> BangPypers at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
> http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 10:59:56 +0530
> From: Mandar Vaze / ????? ???  <mandarvaze at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> > <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> > > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> > > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
> >
> > Any links to the discussions?
> >
>
> >From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking
> (every
> so often) what is the best IDE
> pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.
>
> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/
>
> If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
> will always show up.
> The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that is
> possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
> around at that time.
>
> -Mandar
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:01:56 +0530
> From: Mandar Vaze / ????? ???  <mandarvaze at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> http://bit.ly/1dXgwqD
>
> -Mandar
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <
> mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> >> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> >> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> >> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
> >>
> >> Any links to the discussions?
> >>
> >
> > From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking
> > (every so often) what is the best IDE
> > pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.
> >
> > http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/
> >
> > If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
> > will always show up.
> > The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that
> > is possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
> > around at that time.
> >
> > -Mandar
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 11:34:33 +0530
> From: Rohit kumar <rohitkav123 at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAB_7RjOa0jOPPpTPn5cjYGEvAAA1Qrreo1v2AcrZWaUQL9j4pg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Just a quick question. Are you guys talking about open source licensed
> IDE or community edition of this IDE for a project which should be
> online for 3 months than could get the full featured software. Since
> this offer was in pycharm earlier isn't it. or we can use fully
> featured just downloading it.
>
> On 10/3/13, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > http://bit.ly/1dXgwqD
> >
> > -Mandar
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <
> > mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Dhananjay Nene
> >> <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> >>> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> >>> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> >>> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
> >>>
> >>> Any links to the discussions?
> >>>
> >>
> >> From top of my head - linkedin python community - people keep asking
> >> (every so often) what is the best IDE
> >> pycharm was always mentioned as paid but excellent.
> >>
> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1keync/best_free_python_ide/
> >>
> >> If you have time (and inclination) google "python best IDE" and pycharm
> >> will always show up.
> >> The very first link from google search (SO) doesn't mention PyCharm that
> >> is possibly because the discussion is from 2011 - and pycharm may not be
> >> around at that time.
> >>
> >> -Mandar
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> --
> Rohit Kumar A V
> Mob: +91-9538662369
>
> "Save paper, think before taking any print if necessary for this document"
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2013 11:37:35 +0530
> From: Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at nibrahim.net.in>
> To: Rohit kumar <rohitkav123 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been
>         opensourced     i.e. its free now!
> Message-ID: <87k3hu28go.fsf at sanitarium.localdomain>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Rohit kumar <rohitkav123 at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Just a quick question. Are you guys talking about open source licensed
> > IDE or community edition of this IDE for a project which should be
> > online for 3 months than could get the full featured software. Since
> > this offer was in pycharm earlier isn't it. or we can use fully
> > featured just downloading it.
>
> OT. I remember when they first demoed pycharm at PyCon and they said
> something like, it has compatibility features if you're coming from
> "normal editors" like vim or emacs. He said that and then started
> pycharm, it crashed and took down the OS with it. :)
>
>  [...]
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
> Noufal
> http://nibrahim.net.in
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
> *****************************************
>

From aditya at thinrhino.net.in  Thu Oct  3 09:31:37 2013
From: aditya at thinrhino.net.in (Aditya Laghate)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:01:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
 <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>

On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 12:24:27PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote:
> As far as I know, this is permanent move Rahul, Pycharm is going to have
> two versions, the basic one is opensourced for ever and then there one with
> more bells and whistles which is licensed.

It is opensourced or just given out free? I did not see any link to the
source code.

Cheers
Aditya

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 09:48:24 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 13:18:24 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
 <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4P=kAm39kk4e-O5eWYPXnZuWiLfZyxnaBUbXhMuM7bRYg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Aditya Laghate <aditya at thinrhino.net.in> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 12:24:27PM +0530, Venu Murthy wrote:
>> As far as I know, this is permanent move Rahul, Pycharm is going to have
>> two versions, the basic one is opensourced for ever and then there one with
>> more bells and whistles which is licensed.
>
> It is opensourced or just given out free? I did not see any link to the
> source code.
>
Its in the downloaded tar.gz. You'll find the jar in lib/src

Besides the community edition clearly mentions "Free, open-source,
Apache 2 license"


> Cheers
> Aditya

From aditya at thinrhino.net.in  Thu Oct  3 10:32:46 2013
From: aditya at thinrhino.net.in (Aditya Laghate)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 14:02:46 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4P=kAm39kk4e-O5eWYPXnZuWiLfZyxnaBUbXhMuM7bRYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
 <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>
 <CAD2aR4P=kAm39kk4e-O5eWYPXnZuWiLfZyxnaBUbXhMuM7bRYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131003083246.GA1990@TR.local>

On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 01:18:24PM +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
> >
> Its in the downloaded tar.gz. You'll find the jar in lib/src
> Besides the community edition clearly mentions "Free, open-source,
> Apache 2 license"

I had downloaded the OS X version of PyCharm. Looked into the lib/src
folder and found three files (OS X version), viz:
- pycharm-openapi-src.zip
- pycharm-pydev-src.zip
- trove4j_src.jar

None of them have the entire source code the PyCharm IDE.

I don't know what is available in the linux package.

btw, pycharm.jar is about 74 mb, as against the total of the above three
files in the src folder is 897 kb.

Did a google search for 'source code pycharm', found a link to a blog
post[1]. One of the comments was asking for the link of the source code,
which was answered by "The source code of PyCharm CE will be available
in the intellij-community repo on GitHub under Apache 2 license in a few
days."

So, I guess that solves my question on the source code.

Links:
1:
http://blog.jetbrains.com/pycharm/2013/09/jetbrains-delights-the-python-community-with-a-free-edition-of-its-famous-ide-pycharm-3-0/


From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 18:41:34 2013
From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 22:11:34 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Getting a random record from Database . The best
	strategy.
Message-ID: <CAN+DPAADFM+2gC5AYJFqX6Dt7zS5omAqU__9ZEJA4Fd2vRmEhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi ,  I am not sure if this question will be considered sufficiently
python related. If its not than I am sorry I will take this somewhere
else

I am setting up some smoke tests for which I am fetching some records
from the db.

I am using sqlalchemy for this right now.
My real question when fetching such a random record from a db for some reason.
What is the best strategy.

Should I use some  kind of randomizer in the database tool.
Or should I use something in ORM
Or should I make the decision for finding the random value in the
python or the language I am working with and then fetch the record
using the tools I am using.


Thanks
Amit

-- 
A-M-I-T S|S

From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 09:24:09 2013
From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 12:54:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Getting a random record from Database . The best
	strategy.
In-Reply-To: <CAN+DPAADFM+2gC5AYJFqX6Dt7zS5omAqU__9ZEJA4Fd2vRmEhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+DPAADFM+2gC5AYJFqX6Dt7zS5omAqU__9ZEJA4Fd2vRmEhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5Hnjj_DBG9QXpPoqTGiK0qVqFXFXmS_bj+S+-RmCBSS6NJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>

from sqlalchemy.sql.expression import func
random_row = session.query(YourModel).order_by(func.random()).first()

this is equivalent to:
SELECT * FROM my_table ORDER BY RAND() LIMIT 1;
http://www.kavoir.com/2009/03/sql-randomly-shuffle-rows-or-records-reorder-them-in-a-random-order.html

I have not tested the code myself though.


--
Dhruv Baldawa
(http://www.dhruvb.com)


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Amit Sethi <amit.pureenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi ,  I am not sure if this question will be considered sufficiently
> python related. If its not than I am sorry I will take this somewhere
> else
>
> I am setting up some smoke tests for which I am fetching some records
> from the db.
>
> I am using sqlalchemy for this right now.
> My real question when fetching such a random record from a db for some
> reason.
> What is the best strategy.
>
> Should I use some  kind of randomizer in the database tool.
> Or should I use something in ORM
> Or should I make the decision for finding the random value in the
> python or the language I am working with and then fetch the record
> using the tools I am using.
>
>
> Thanks
> Amit
>
> --
> A-M-I-T S|S
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com  Thu Oct  3 19:59:32 2013
From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 23:29:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Getting a random record from Database . The best
	strategy.
In-Reply-To: <CAN+DPAADFM+2gC5AYJFqX6Dt7zS5omAqU__9ZEJA4Fd2vRmEhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+DPAADFM+2gC5AYJFqX6Dt7zS5omAqU__9ZEJA4Fd2vRmEhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFi9wfs5fTv9obCA+FF27Cpb6i4FhytBdDmd4D3hv-Ewrfk8kw@mail.gmail.com>

An ideal situation is to use predictable test interfaces. Hence ideally you
should have sequence of inserts and updates and selects at end of which you
should be able to verify that database logic is consistent with your
expectations.

But if random records query is a requirement, at outset you can view
sqlalchemy db cursor as an iterator thus you can use **choice** and
**sample** routines from random library module. The merit to this approach
is simplicity in case test records are not very many. To optimize on this
approach further, you can use randint(1, <number of rows>) and use returned
value as primary key search parameter in your select statement. With this
approach you can make two fast queries and get a random row of which count
query would often be cached.

regards

Supreet


On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:11 PM, Amit Sethi <amit.pureenergy at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi ,  I am not sure if this question will be considered sufficiently
> python related. If its not than I am sorry I will take this somewhere
> else
>
> I am setting up some smoke tests for which I am fetching some records
> from the db.
>
> I am using sqlalchemy for this right now.
> My real question when fetching such a random record from a db for some
> reason.
> What is the best strategy.
>
> Should I use some  kind of randomizer in the database tool.
> Or should I use something in ORM
> Or should I make the decision for finding the random value in the
> python or the language I am working with and then fetch the record
> using the tools I am using.
>
>
> Thanks
> Amit
>
> --
> A-M-I-T S|S
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Supreet Sethi
Ph UK: +447859172473
Ph IN: +919811143517
Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n
Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi
Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 13:00:43 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:30:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaDSO2ywkKU4ApJ84LkECbEJqdJAgUbzF6=iQ_a3SsTU-A@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 3, 2013 9:40 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>
> Any links to the discussions?

http://andrewbrookins.com/tech/one-year-later-an-epic-review-of-pycharm-2-7-from-a-vim-users-perspective/

That's the most comprehensive one I've read.

- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Oct  4 16:29:26 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 19:59:26 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaDSO2ywkKU4ApJ84LkECbEJqdJAgUbzF6=iQ_a3SsTU-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDSO2ywkKU4ApJ84LkECbEJqdJAgUbzF6=iQ_a3SsTU-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4O-gUJCp+PHazwWO+BX6nu=rvc_TVCpkE0Tk1DbsfzRBw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 3, 2013 9:40 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:19 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ???
>> <mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Downloaded it, bit not used it, yet. (still using vim)
>> > But I have heard so much praise about pycharm from everyone in every
>> > (python related) forum that I can't wait to use it
>>
>> Any links to the discussions?
>
> http://andrewbrookins.com/tech/one-year-later-an-epic-review-of-pycharm-2-7-from-a-vim-users-perspective/
>
> That's the most comprehensive one I've read.
Nice review. Thx.

From markos at customeradvocacy.com  Sat Oct  5 13:01:42 2013
From: markos at customeradvocacy.com (Marko CA)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 15:01:42 +0400
Subject: [BangPypers] Looking for full time Python / Django Senior Devs
	or a prestigious western company
In-Reply-To: <C5D68623-8E1C-46F4-8084-02488403CD24@customeradvocacy.com>
References: <C5D68623-8E1C-46F4-8084-02488403CD24@customeradvocacy.com>
Message-ID: <030AC6CF-7FC3-4C36-9029-CD6CF5CEDD8D@customeradvocacy.com>

We are looking for  an additional 5 full time Python / Django Developers for a 12 month initial contract. We are an exciting company across the US / UK expanding aggressively in SaaS marketing software market. Seewww.customeradvocacy.com for more I formation on our platform. Developers are being recruited to build exciting new modules to our core offering.

If you are interested please send your CV and cover letter to

notices at customeradvocacy.com

Many thanks,

Markos Symeonides

CEO
CustomerAdvocacy.com

Markos Symeonides
CEO / Founder

CustomerAdvocacy.com

USA +1 2023610638
UAE +971 503551898
UK +44 7793653026

> On 5 Oct 2013, at 14:18, Customer advocacy <markos at customeradvocacy.com> wrote:
> 
> We are looking for  an additional 5 full time Python / Django Developers for a 12 month initial contract. We are an exciting company across the US / UK expanding aggressively in SaaS marketing software market. See www.customeradvocacy.com for more I formation on our platform. Developers are being recruited to build exciting new modules to our core offering.
> 
> If you are interested please send your CV and cover letter to notices at customeradvocacy.com
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> Markos Symeonides
> 
> CEO
> CustomerAdvocacy.com

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Sat Oct  5 16:37:11 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 20:07:11 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] the pyCharm from Jetbrains has been opensourced
 i.e. its free now!
In-Reply-To: <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAA52WSdWTs5Dbo-iove+1h1vE1_KOPxhrgSC=MFu8VOD41t28Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfsc0Jzt--riu2-EX0OroOcXSNkWBKa+2hbihHu+3+eJvw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NSeAHiMYWeqJrLRUgKBLdjrp9qfAm6CiD4+yTt+SkFFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfvtea-X6v7YnJaAizib9Z-4vZZ_GY3mnVKHRnzehbB-XA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADDYdfswxAsfh7Td6PekA+qaKFxdZqxD312ns5gzyn_Nd7FAcw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaC_XEO8m+oE4URuHC-R0=ZtahAQ7fovnihDjtvigbSJTw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Mandar Vaze / ????? ??? <
mandarvaze at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://bit.ly/1dXgwqD


Dude, that was mean! :S
A lmgtfy link behind a bitly link!?! :)

- d

From avneesh.chadha at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 11:48:58 2013
From: avneesh.chadha at gmail.com (Avneesh Chadha)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 15:18:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
Message-ID: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really want to get
into python .Could anyone point me to any open source project which could
help me get relevant experience for a python based development.

Thanks

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 13:36:50 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:06:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaDxVJRNcL6fS2YSemhqBVN9gCmOviWF_iURXXJOxRy_NA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
> I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really want to get
> into python .Could anyone point me to any open source project which could
> help me get relevant experience for a python based development.


http://pune.python.org.in/pages/python-resources.html

Anything from that list should be a good start.

- d

From anandpillai at letterboxes.org  Mon Oct  7 13:48:19 2013
From: anandpillai at letterboxes.org (Anand B Pillai)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2013 17:18:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaDxVJRNcL6fS2YSemhqBVN9gCmOviWF_iURXXJOxRy_NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDxVJRNcL6fS2YSemhqBVN9gCmOviWF_iURXXJOxRy_NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52529F83.2060101@letterboxes.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Monday 07 October 2013 05:06 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Avneesh Chadha
> <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really
>> want to get into python .Could anyone point me to any open source
>> project which could help me get relevant experience for a python
>> based development.

Starting with projects is fine if you got some experience with
open source development and contribution.

Otherwise suggest to start with online resources that would make
your transition easy.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1052435/moving-from-java-to-python

could help.

Since you have been drinking Java only 6 months, you should do rather
fine in your steps to becoming a Pythonista.

I was also curious as to why you were learning Python after a stint in
Java just 6 months.

All the best!

> 
> 
> http://pune.python.org.in/pages/python-resources.html
> 
> Anything from that list should be a good start.
> 
> - d _______________________________________________ BangPypers
> mailing list BangPypers at python.org 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> 


- -- 
Regards,

- --Anand

-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Software Architect/Consultant
anandpillai at letterboxes.org

Please note my updated email address <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>.
Kindly update your address books.

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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

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From avneesh.chadha at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 14:08:55 2013
From: avneesh.chadha at gmail.com (Avneesh Chadha)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 17:38:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
In-Reply-To: <52529F83.2060101@letterboxes.org>
References: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDxVJRNcL6fS2YSemhqBVN9gCmOviWF_iURXXJOxRy_NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52529F83.2060101@letterboxes.org>
Message-ID: <CAApbY-aCcLWQGigk7irMRNQ588OgVd+GsFnf-XnHDCL9TbcVRA@mail.gmail.com>

I have been coding in java for sometime(college and personal projects
),however started doing it for a living only 6 months ago.

I have been trying to find something that I can work on, and in the process
learn the language better.

Since I am new to the open source sphere , I was having a hard time finding
something for myself.

And the reason why I wanted to shift to python is the way you can
accomplish more with less, plus the amount of features it offers, its
almost certain somebody faced the same problem you are facing right now,
and solved it, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel(which to is true for
java also, but python takes to a whole different level)
On 07-Oct-2013 5:18 PM, "Anand B Pillai" <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>
wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Monday 07 October 2013 05:06 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Avneesh Chadha
> > <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really
> >> want to get into python .Could anyone point me to any open source
> >> project which could help me get relevant experience for a python
> >> based development.
>
> Starting with projects is fine if you got some experience with
> open source development and contribution.
>
> Otherwise suggest to start with online resources that would make
> your transition easy.
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1052435/moving-from-java-to-python
>
> could help.
>
> Since you have been drinking Java only 6 months, you should do rather
> fine in your steps to becoming a Pythonista.
>
> I was also curious as to why you were learning Python after a stint in
> Java just 6 months.
>
> All the best!
>
> >
> >
> > http://pune.python.org.in/pages/python-resources.html
> >
> > Anything from that list should be a good start.
> >
> > - d _______________________________________________ BangPypers
> > mailing list BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> - --
> Regards,
>
> - --Anand
>
> -
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Software Architect/Consultant
> anandpillai at letterboxes.org
>
> Please note my updated email address <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>.
> Kindly update your address books.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
>
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> CYPlfHamqm1MKu/woPT0h7V7HyGG1eqa/O5iVg+ah5rHu0YB/+jh84N6gAOFBS2Z
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> =6oK7
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 15:54:48 2013
From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 19:24:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-aCcLWQGigk7irMRNQ588OgVd+GsFnf-XnHDCL9TbcVRA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDxVJRNcL6fS2YSemhqBVN9gCmOviWF_iURXXJOxRy_NA@mail.gmail.com>
 <52529F83.2060101@letterboxes.org>
 <CAApbY-aCcLWQGigk7irMRNQ588OgVd+GsFnf-XnHDCL9TbcVRA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5Hnji83Qrw5T0GMCmcgcRaT+MBeYtuyCK8TB5rd0F9Cp0bgg@mail.gmail.com>

I started off with solving Project Euler
<http://www.projecteuler.net>problems when I first started learning
Python (after reading few books on
Python).
Also have a look at:
http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/the-best-way-to-learn-python/

--
Dhruv Baldawa
(http://www.dhruvb.com)


On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 5:38 PM, Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:

> I have been coding in java for sometime(college and personal projects
> ),however started doing it for a living only 6 months ago.
>
> I have been trying to find something that I can work on, and in the process
> learn the language better.
>
> Since I am new to the open source sphere , I was having a hard time finding
> something for myself.
>
> And the reason why I wanted to shift to python is the way you can
> accomplish more with less, plus the amount of features it offers, its
> almost certain somebody faced the same problem you are facing right now,
> and solved it, so you don't have to reinvent the wheel(which to is true for
> java also, but python takes to a whole different level)
> On 07-Oct-2013 5:18 PM, "Anand B Pillai" <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>
> wrote:
>
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > On Monday 07 October 2013 05:06 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote:
> > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Avneesh Chadha
> > > <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi, I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really
> > >> want to get into python .Could anyone point me to any open source
> > >> project which could help me get relevant experience for a python
> > >> based development.
> >
> > Starting with projects is fine if you got some experience with
> > open source development and contribution.
> >
> > Otherwise suggest to start with online resources that would make
> > your transition easy.
> >
> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1052435/moving-from-java-to-python
> >
> > could help.
> >
> > Since you have been drinking Java only 6 months, you should do rather
> > fine in your steps to becoming a Pythonista.
> >
> > I was also curious as to why you were learning Python after a stint in
> > Java just 6 months.
> >
> > All the best!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://pune.python.org.in/pages/python-resources.html
> > >
> > > Anything from that list should be a good start.
> > >
> > > - d _______________________________________________ BangPypers
> > > mailing list BangPypers at python.org
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> >
> >
> > - --
> > Regards,
> >
> > - --Anand
> >
> > -
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Software Architect/Consultant
> > anandpillai at letterboxes.org
> >
> > Please note my updated email address <anandpillai at letterboxes.org>.
> > Kindly update your address books.
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/
> >
> > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSUp+DAAoJEMTxYeOp9eaotDkIAMWxzZSJf+utAQKI2pKBcyeB
> > t29UwThjybNL+sNCcXnuflDZgNjnSrxKFs1T6HYceQAbrLqpiYNeqzGv61ItP6Fs
> > /1s17g5MNz9i/Rh3LEqWQyLwsWJZbt1DCBLHXBbCZ+Qh3JrNRvg7uKsGaiXX009A
> > CYPlfHamqm1MKu/woPT0h7V7HyGG1eqa/O5iVg+ah5rHu0YB/+jh84N6gAOFBS2Z
> > 1hRLRtg/0zMK0Ct/wqmtFgR9KdSVYsDkdrkFD91erri/tXQlacdRS8YgsspqFp8+
> > 24L34bc4gRPOBgNzBhEzSTXdbXWbOd7ITZZ72bqXK20p9+tFAzzsjck4fxHw+lA=
> > =6oK7
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 16:04:39 2013
From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2013 19:34:39 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Noob trying to get into python
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Zzme+P=2PbRMCNEHG==FN2PV6ZCutMUKmYOcpnvGFQqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN8ZCbwA4hFze+6xaXPpLZH+aFrow4u97Ax_eHMMV09x6QMmqg@mail.gmail.com>

Once you familiarised the basics of Python, try Python Koans:
https://github.com/gregmalcolm/python_koans

On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been working in java for the last 6 months, but really want to get
> into python .Could anyone point me to any open source project which could
> help me get relevant experience for a python based development.
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers

From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Mon Oct  7 21:55:58 2013
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 01:25:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] October meetup
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mkWJiLbmMuhe=2q0AkgW1op5Uh3dAzLey_UR60mUa0aqw@mail.gmail.com>

All

 We are having october bangpypers meetup on 19th at 3.00 PM in Apigee,
kormangala, 80 ft road. We are looking for speakers. You can give a flash
talk(15 mins) or 30 mins or 45 mins session.

In case you are interested to speak leave a comment in meetup page or reply
to the thread.

Do RSVP if you are attending:
http://www.meetup.com/BangPypers/events/125800222/

-- 
*
Thanks & Regards

"Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds
kracekumar

*

From prasad.karani at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 09:09:25 2013
From: prasad.karani at gmail.com (Prasad Karani)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:39:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
Message-ID: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,


Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i have
start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good book
for the same.

Thanks,
Prasad Karani

From shoanm at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 09:30:18 2013
From: shoanm at gmail.com (Shoan Motwani)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:00:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABTGj_pnPJ3am78AHLg+3UchR4pWYt-Wzb03_jUOOXRZW4HyFg@mail.gmail.com>

I had a good start with the official tutorials at
https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/

On 8 October 2013 12:39, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>
> Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i have
> start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good book
> for the same.
>
> Thanks,
> Prasad Karani
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
Shoan Motwani
@shoanm
w. shoan.net

From me at bibhas.in  Tue Oct  8 09:33:05 2013
From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas Ch Debnath)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:03:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>

Django documentation is more that enough to get started. Try the tutorial
there.
On Oct 8, 2013 12:43 PM, "Prasad Karani" <prasad.karani at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i have
> start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good book
> for the same.
>
> Thanks,
> Prasad Karani
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 09:50:04 2013
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 13:20:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>

Also look into djangobook.com.

From ragsagar at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 14:14:21 2013
From: ragsagar at gmail.com (ragsagar)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 16:14:21 +0400
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 11:50 AM, kracekumar ramaraju <
kracethekingmaker at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also look into djangobook.com.


Don't follow djangobook.com. It is outdated!

-- 
blog : ragsagar.wordpress.com
mail id : python -c "print '@'.join(['ragsagar','.'.join([x for x in
['gmail','com']])])"

From kartiksinghal at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 15:13:54 2013
From: kartiksinghal at gmail.com (Kartik Singhal)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 18:43:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, ragsagar <ragsagar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Don't follow djangobook.com. It is outdated!
>

It is, as it says on the homepage, but is still full of useful concepts
that are very hard to gather from the docs directly. Just need to be ready
to face variations in the features/syntax that you will keep encountering
while reading this. Also, comments on most of the paragraphs of the book
can come useful when you get stuck.


-- 
Kartik
http://k4rtik.wordpress.com/

From ragsagar at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 19:09:03 2013
From: ragsagar at gmail.com (ragsagar)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 21:09:03 +0400
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACEP=sauoyTV_FbMnMDDPQ7Uuucmu=rMx=dDc9mvY9Nj5XH37Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Kartik Singhal <kartiksinghal at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, ragsagar <ragsagar at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Don't follow djangobook.com. It is outdated!
> >
>
> It is, as it says on the homepage, but is still full of useful concepts
> that are very hard to gather from the docs directly.


True!



> Just need to be ready
> to face variations in the features/syntax that you will keep encountering
> while reading this. Also, comments on most of the paragraphs of the book
> can come useful when you get stuck.
>
>
We cannot expect beginners to be aware of changes in different versions. I
see a lot of beginners asking help in IRC after getting stuck following
djangobook thinking it is the official tutorial.

-- 
blog : ragsagar.wordpress.com
mail id : python -c "print '@'.join(['ragsagar','.'.join([x for x in
['gmail','com']])])"

From babmis at outlook.com  Wed Oct  9 07:46:04 2013
From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 11:16:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using pysvn how can i capture the log of checkout()
 and return code of the checkout() to use the exit code of check out
 activcity basically .
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP473F05920068C032ABBFC85CA1D0@phx.gbl>



From babmis at outlook.com  Wed Oct  9 08:30:05 2013
From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 12:00:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using pysvn how can i capture the log of
 checkout() and return code of the checkout() to use the exit code of check
 out activcity basically .
In-Reply-To: <5254ED9C.1020100@outlook.com>
References: <5254ED9C.1020100@outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP344C90A329EF72DEBB17692CA1D0@phx.gbl>

Here  is the code i am trying:



   2     from pysvn import wc_status_kind
   3     import pysvn
   4
         import os, os.path
   6     import re
   7
   8     def createSVNClient():
   9         """Create a pysvn client, and setup some callback and options.
  10         """
  11
  12         def login(*args):
  13             return True, 'root', 'pass', False
  16
  17         client = pysvn.Client()
  18         client.set_interactive(True)
  19         client.callback_get_login = login
  20         return client
  21
  22     client = createSVNClient()

  23     link = "http://demo.com/svn/trunk"
  24     path = '/tmp/ux'
  25     client.exception_style = 1
  26
  27     try:
  28         revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)



From noorul at noorul.com  Wed Oct  9 11:31:01 2013
From: noorul at noorul.com (Noorul Islam K M)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 15:01:01 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using pysvn how can i capture the log of
	checkout() and return code of the checkout() to use the exit
	code of check out activcity basically .
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP344C90A329EF72DEBB17692CA1D0@phx.gbl>
 (babmis@outlook.com's message of "Wed, 9 Oct 2013 12:00:05 +0530")
References: <5254ED9C.1020100@outlook.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP344C90A329EF72DEBB17692CA1D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8738oaaizu.fsf@noman.maa.corp.collab.net>

babmis <babmis at outlook.com> writes:

> Here  is the code i am trying:
>
>
>
>   2     from pysvn import wc_status_kind
>   3     import pysvn
>   4
>         import os, os.path
>   6     import re
>   7
>   8     def createSVNClient():
>   9         """Create a pysvn client, and setup some callback and options.
>  10         """
>  11
>  12         def login(*args):
>  13             return True, 'root', 'pass', False
>  16
>  17         client = pysvn.Client()
>  18         client.set_interactive(True)
>  19         client.callback_get_login = login
>  20         return client
>  21
>  22     client = createSVNClient()
>
>  23     link = "http://demo.com/svn/trunk"
>  24     path = '/tmp/ux'
>  25     client.exception_style = 1
>  26
>  27     try:
>  28         revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)

I this code snippet complete?

- Noorul

From babmis at outlook.com  Wed Oct  9 11:49:23 2013
From: babmis at outlook.com (babmis)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 15:19:23 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using pysvn how can i capture the log of
 checkout() and return code of the checkout() to use the exit code of check
 out activcity basically .
In-Reply-To: <8738oaaizu.fsf@noman.maa.corp.collab.net>
References: <5254ED9C.1020100@outlook.com>	<BLU0-SMTP344C90A329EF72DEBB17692CA1D0@phx.gbl>
 <8738oaaizu.fsf@noman.maa.corp.collab.net>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP308536A278F6DB46E1A639ECA1D0@phx.gbl>

This is snippet is not complete, but primary intention is

revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)

After this how can i check the exit code and capture the specific log that would have generated during this transaction of svn co command internally.



On 10/9/2013 3:01 PM, Noorul Islam K M wrote:
> babmis <babmis at outlook.com> writes:
>
>> Here  is the code i am trying:
>>
>>
>>
>>    2     from pysvn import wc_status_kind
>>    3     import pysvn
>>    4
>>          import os, os.path
>>    6     import re
>>    7
>>    8     def createSVNClient():
>>    9         """Create a pysvn client, and setup some callback and options.
>>   10         """
>>   11
>>   12         def login(*args):
>>   13             return True, 'root', 'pass', False
>>   16
>>   17         client = pysvn.Client()
>>   18         client.set_interactive(True)
>>   19         client.callback_get_login = login
>>   20         return client
>>   21
>>   22     client = createSVNClient()
>>
>>   23     link = "http://demo.com/svn/trunk"
>>   24     path = '/tmp/ux'
>>   25     client.exception_style = 1
>>   26
>>   27     try:
>>   28         revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)
> I this code snippet complete?
>
> - Noorul
>
>


From a.koppad at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 09:19:16 2013
From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 12:49:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAALSmCzAcB9MmxpgoG3iXRScsPfPh0v0QwPc_YmoD6JY_xKfeA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

The official Django tutorial is one of the best resource that I have known.
Pretty much covers everything that you need to know.

Apart from that, I completed this blog code here,
http://matthewdaly.co.uk/blog/2012/02/24/yet-another-tutorial-for-building-a-blog-using-python-and-django-part-1/This
one is excellent !

Hope this helps!

regards,
Annapoornima
Pyladies Bangalore


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i have
> start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good book
> for the same.
>
> Thanks,
> Prasad Karani
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From thes.kumar at gmail.com  Tue Oct  8 16:55:09 2013
From: thes.kumar at gmail.com (Saurabh Kumar)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2013 20:25:09 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
> Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i have
> start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good book
> for the same.
>

I would recommend you to go through Two Scoops of Django [1] after you have
gone through the official docs [2]. Also since you have mentioned that you
have basic knowledge of python, you can refer to Pro Python[3] to get more
insight into python language.

"Django is fun if you know python"

Links:
[1]: https://django.2scoops.org/
[2]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/
[3]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430227575

Warm Regards,
Saurabh Kumar

From noorul at noorul.com  Wed Oct  9 13:15:03 2013
From: noorul at noorul.com (Noorul Islam K M)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2013 16:45:03 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Using pysvn how can i capture the log of
	checkout() and return code of the checkout() to use the exit
	code of check out activcity basically .
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP308536A278F6DB46E1A639ECA1D0@phx.gbl>
 (babmis@outlook.com's message of "Wed, 9 Oct 2013 15:19:23 +0530")
References: <5254ED9C.1020100@outlook.com>
 <BLU0-SMTP344C90A329EF72DEBB17692CA1D0@phx.gbl>
 <8738oaaizu.fsf@noman.maa.corp.collab.net>
 <BLU0-SMTP308536A278F6DB46E1A639ECA1D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <87y5628zm0.fsf@noman.maa.corp.collab.net>

babmis <babmis at outlook.com> writes:

> This is snippet is not complete, but primary intention is
>
> revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)
>
> After this how can i check the exit code and capture the specific log that would have generated during this transaction of svn co command internally.
>

I think callback_notify gives you more information about result of the
commands.

- Noorul

>
>
> On 10/9/2013 3:01 PM, Noorul Islam K M wrote:
>> babmis <babmis at outlook.com> writes:
>>
>>> Here  is the code i am trying:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    2     from pysvn import wc_status_kind
>>>    3     import pysvn
>>>    4
>>>          import os, os.path
>>>    6     import re
>>>    7
>>>    8     def createSVNClient():
>>>    9         """Create a pysvn client, and setup some callback and options.
>>>   10         """
>>>   11
>>>   12         def login(*args):
>>>   13             return True, 'root', 'pass', False
>>>   16
>>>   17         client = pysvn.Client()
>>>   18         client.set_interactive(True)
>>>   19         client.callback_get_login = login
>>>   20         return client
>>>   21
>>>   22     client = createSVNClient()
>>>
>>>   23     link = "http://demo.com/svn/trunk"
>>>   24     path = '/tmp/ux'
>>>   25     client.exception_style = 1
>>>   26
>>>   27     try:
>>>   28         revision = client.checkout(link, path, recurse=True)
>> I this code snippet complete?
>>
>> - Noorul
>>
>>

From arunvr at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 15:51:43 2013
From: arunvr at gmail.com (Arun Ravindran)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 19:21:43 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABFUqp3PH=7J_W5eMMFAHkAmSKZURj7uW3zXoRC_B9pH+azgEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Prasad,

At this point, Django books except for Two Scoops of Django are outdated
with the current release in varying degrees of compatibility.

I have posted a couple of screencasts and articles on learning Django, if
you are interested in a shorter format:

http://arunrocks.com/building_a_blog_in_30_mins_with_django_(screencast)/

http://arunrocks.com/building-a-hacker-news-clone-in-django-part-1/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PBvld1CuGU


Cheers,
Arun


On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Saurabh Kumar <thes.kumar at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> > Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i
> have
> > start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> > Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good
> book
> > for the same.
> >
>
> I would recommend you to go through Two Scoops of Django [1] after you have
> gone through the official docs [2]. Also since you have mentioned that you
> have basic knowledge of python, you can refer to Pro Python[3] to get more
> insight into python language.
>
> "Django is fun if you know python"
>
> Links:
> [1]: https://django.2scoops.org/
> [2]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/
> [3]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430227575
>
> Warm Regards,
> Saurabh Kumar
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From venkateshprabhu2 at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 16:29:51 2013
From: venkateshprabhu2 at gmail.com (Venkatesh Prabhu)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 19:59:51 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CABFUqp3PH=7J_W5eMMFAHkAmSKZURj7uW3zXoRC_B9pH+azgEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CABFUqp3PH=7J_W5eMMFAHkAmSKZURj7uW3zXoRC_B9pH+azgEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACt2ahRcG5c4ZQS224fHni33h+GRNqu-Es_Oi_EhyT8=DToJKg@mail.gmail.com>

there is workshop this sunday at YOUTHSTORY about DJANGO. how to build a
basic site using DJANGo if u wanna start from scratch..


On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Arun Ravindran <arunvr at gmail.com> wrote:

> Prasad,
>
> At this point, Django books except for Two Scoops of Django are outdated
> with the current release in varying degrees of compatibility.
>
> I have posted a couple of screencasts and articles on learning Django, if
> you are interested in a shorter format:
>
> http://arunrocks.com/building_a_blog_in_30_mins_with_django_(screencast)/
>
> http://arunrocks.com/building-a-hacker-news-clone-in-django-part-1/
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PBvld1CuGU
>
>
> Cheers,
> Arun
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Saurabh Kumar <thes.kumar at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > >
> > > Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i
> > have
> > > start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based
> Test
> > > Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good
> > book
> > > for the same.
> > >
> >
> > I would recommend you to go through Two Scoops of Django [1] after you
> have
> > gone through the official docs [2]. Also since you have mentioned that
> you
> > have basic knowledge of python, you can refer to Pro Python[3] to get
> more
> > insight into python language.
> >
> > "Django is fun if you know python"
> >
> > Links:
> > [1]: https://django.2scoops.org/
> > [2]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/
> > [3]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430227575
> >
> > Warm Regards,
> > Saurabh Kumar
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From niranjan.par at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 07:51:13 2013
From: niranjan.par at gmail.com (Niranjan Paranjape)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 11:21:13 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [X-POST][ANN] DevOpsDays India 2013
Message-ID: <CAJYwyqG943OeJs1_QHejFR0487hx=dTbSGZrCD_CsXB1ntYHtg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

This year we are hosting third DevOpsDays India in Bangalore on November
16th and 17th. It's a single track two days conference.

The CFP and registrations for the event are open. You can find more about
the event at http://devopsdays.org/events/2013-india/registration/ and
register at http://devopsdaysindia.doattend.com/

Regards,
Niranjan
http://c42.in http://rubymonk.com

From a.koppad at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 05:19:18 2013
From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 08:49:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
Message-ID: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear All,

Sunita, who works with Thoughtworks is willing to host a one day hackathon
at her office premises.

I have been brainstorming with her to conduct the hackathon. We have couple
of ideas that we could hack on 12th Oct 2013 starting 9:00 am.

Our idea is to spend half a day learning some python and the rest of the
day spending time on open source projects.

1. https://openhatch.org/search/?q=&toughness=bitesize
2. https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bugs?field.tag=low-hanging-fruit

There is another website, http://newcoder.io/tutorials which is written by
Lynn Root, founder of Pyladies SFO. We could work on one of the tutorial
there. Please let us know your choice so we can decide keeping your choice
in mind.

A few extraneous details,

Lunch can be catered with PSF grant that I have right now. We are also
planning to hire a nanny for ladies with children. Sunita again is taking
the lead there.

Here is the event, http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/

Koramangala office address is here.

147/F, 2nd Floor, ACR Mansion, 8th Main Rd, 3rd Block, Koramangala,
Bangalore, Karnataka, 560034

Please RSVP your attendance so that we can plan accordingly.

Thanks and regards,
Sunita/Annapoornima

From i.amber.jain at gmail.com  Wed Oct  9 14:27:50 2013
From: i.amber.jain at gmail.com (Amber Jain)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2013 17:57:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFuL3sJLhyCEdTGFdAFE-WJJDCY_oypESJNsGd3O1Lja5zS4QQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABfQQTz5bJTNU5c+Z9qQJJSd-L6awWWVCA9EfKnhsqJ3QUjsxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:25 PM, Saurabh Kumar <thes.kumar at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Prasad Karani <prasad.karani at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> >
> > Can you please help me with getting started with Django Framework as i
> have
> > start work on it sometime in near future (current work on java based Test
> > Automation and have basic knowledge of python). Please suggest me good
> book
> > for the same.
> >
>
> I would recommend you to go through Two Scoops of Django [1] after you have
> gone through the official docs [2].
>

+1 both for official docs and Two Scoops of Django. Official tutorial (and
the rest of the documentation) is the authoritative reference. Pydanny's
Two Scoops of Django  gets high praise in Django community (it boasts many
Django core contributers on it's technical reviewers list).

Another nifty resource is Kenneth Love's Getting Started with Django video
series: http://gettingstartedwithdjango.com/


>
> Links:
> [1]: https://django.2scoops.org/
> [2]: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/1.5/
> [3]: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1430227575
>
> Warm Regards,
> Saurabh Kumar
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Amber Jain
i.amber.jain at gmail.com
http://amberj.devio.us/

From prakhar at prakhargoel.com  Thu Oct 10 11:57:12 2013
From: prakhar at prakhargoel.com (Prakhar Goel)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:27:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Thanks for the invite. I would like to join the hackathon. Details-
i at prakhargoel.com, 9901817858.


-Prakhar Goel



On 10 October 2013 08:49, Annapoornima Koppad <a.koppad at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> Sunita, who works with Thoughtworks is willing to host a one day hackathon
> at her office premises.
>
> I have been brainstorming with her to conduct the hackathon. We have couple
> of ideas that we could hack on 12th Oct 2013 starting 9:00 am.
>
> Our idea is to spend half a day learning some python and the rest of the
> day spending time on open source projects.
>
> 1. https://openhatch.org/search/?q=&toughness=bitesize
> 2. https://bugs.launchpad.net/horizon/+bugs?field.tag=low-hanging-fruit
>
> There is another website, http://newcoder.io/tutorials which is written by
> Lynn Root, founder of Pyladies SFO. We could work on one of the tutorial
> there. Please let us know your choice so we can decide keeping your choice
> in mind.
>
> A few extraneous details,
>
> Lunch can be catered with PSF grant that I have right now. We are also
> planning to hire a nanny for ladies with children. Sunita again is taking
> the lead there.
>
> Here is the event,
> http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/
>
> Koramangala office address is here.
>
> 147/F, 2nd Floor, ACR Mansion, 8th Main Rd, 3rd Block, Koramangala,
> Bangalore, Karnataka, 560034
>
> Please RSVP your attendance so that we can plan accordingly.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Sunita/Annapoornima
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From sajuptpm at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 17:25:56 2013
From: sajuptpm at gmail.com (Saju M)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 20:55:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [SQLAlchemy R&D] Working of Session in thread
Message-ID: <CANR2JHj1XSx0Zs6tuRU8u-Po7ff732Lz477+ppJxobS3kYXoWA@mail.gmail.com>

Could someone please explain, Howto sqlalchemy creating new Session and
connection inside the thread.
Please check the attached programme and output.

I went through the doc
http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/orm/session.html#thread-local-scope

and find that sqlalchemy using "threading.local()" to do this magic, but I
could not seen any thing in "threading.local()" (see output of the
programme)



*####### Test Code and Output #######*

from sqlalchemy import *
from sqlalchemy.orm import *
from sqlalchemy.ext.declarative import declarative_base
Base = declarative_base()

e = create_engine("mysql://root:xxxxx at localhost/xxxxx")
Session = scoped_session(sessionmaker(e))

import threading
from functools import wraps
def find_connection_id_deco(func):
    """
    """
    @wraps(func)
    def wrap1(*args, **kwargs):
        """
        """
        gls = func.__globals__
        _DBSession = gls.get("Session")
        if _DBSession:
            res1 = _DBSession.connection().execute("SELECT connection_id()")
            if res1:
                conn_id = res1.fetchone()[0]
                print "@@@@%s===%s()===conn_id_1===%s===%s===%s===%s===" \
                %(func.func_code.co_filename, func.__name__, conn_id,
vars(threading.local()),\
                    threading.currentThread().getName(),
threading.currentThread().ident)
        return func(*args, **kwargs)
    return wrap1


@find_connection_id_deco
def test1():
    """
    """
    print "test1"


@find_connection_id_deco
def test2():
    """
    """
    print "test2"



from threading import Thread
test1()
thread = Thread(target=test2)
thread.start()


*OUTPUT
#######*
@@@@cvt_test_script.py===test1()===conn_id_1===661==={}===MainThread===139917239523072===
test1
@@@@cvt_test_script.py===test2()===conn_id_1===662==={}===Thread-1===139917193123584===
test2



Regards
Saju Madhavan
+91 09535134654

From modi.konark at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 19:25:17 2013
From: modi.konark at gmail.com (konark modi)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 22:55:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [SQLAlchemy R&D] Working of Session in thread
In-Reply-To: <CANR2JHj1XSx0Zs6tuRU8u-Po7ff732Lz477+ppJxobS3kYXoWA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANR2JHj1XSx0Zs6tuRU8u-Po7ff732Lz477+ppJxobS3kYXoWA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPhs5j85_u81b4ApsGYcov05UcDm_e5VkVx5hV0=hLFzfRvLnA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Saju,

I have not much worked on SQLAlchemy sessions, but this can be of your help
: http://pyvideo.org/video/1767/the-sqlalchemy-session-in-depth-0

Regards
Konark


On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Saju M <sajuptpm at gmail.com> wrote:

> Could someone please explain, Howto sqlalchemy creating new Session and
> connection inside the thread.
> Please check the attached programme and output.
>
> I went through the doc
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/latest/orm/session.html#thread-local-scope
>
> and find that sqlalchemy using "threading.local()" to do this magic, but I
> could not seen any thing in "threading.local()" (see output of the
> programme)
>
>
>
> *####### Test Code and Output #######*
>
> from sqlalchemy import *
> from sqlalchemy.orm import *
> from sqlalchemy.ext.declarative import declarative_base
> Base = declarative_base()
>
> e = create_engine("mysql://root:xxxxx at localhost/xxxxx")
> Session = scoped_session(sessionmaker(e))
>
> import threading
> from functools import wraps
> def find_connection_id_deco(func):
>     """
>     """
>     @wraps(func)
>     def wrap1(*args, **kwargs):
>         """
>         """
>         gls = func.__globals__
>         _DBSession = gls.get("Session")
>         if _DBSession:
>             res1 = _DBSession.connection().execute("SELECT
> connection_id()")
>             if res1:
>                 conn_id = res1.fetchone()[0]
>                 print "@@@@%s===%s()===conn_id_1===%s===%s===%s===%s===" \
>                 %(func.func_code.co_filename, func.__name__, conn_id,
> vars(threading.local()),\
>                     threading.currentThread().getName(),
> threading.currentThread().ident)
>         return func(*args, **kwargs)
>     return wrap1
>
>
> @find_connection_id_deco
> def test1():
>     """
>     """
>     print "test1"
>
>
> @find_connection_id_deco
> def test2():
>     """
>     """
>     print "test2"
>
>
>
> from threading import Thread
> test1()
> thread = Thread(target=test2)
> thread.start()
>
>
> *OUTPUT
> #######*
>
> @@@@cvt_test_script.py===test1()===conn_id_1===661==={}===MainThread===139917239523072===
> test1
>
> @@@@cvt_test_script.py===test2()===conn_id_1===662==={}===Thread-1===139917193123584===
> test2
>
>
>
> Regards
> Saju Madhavan
> +91 09535134654
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From benignbala at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 19:48:32 2013
From: benignbala at gmail.com (Balachandran Sivakumar)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 23:18:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMbkTgJnVXe3ryPZv8H8hygtkgRmTDxwTqVGgbmEXSDBqMhzfA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Annapoornima Koppad <a.koppad at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> Sunita, who works with Thoughtworks is willing to host a one day hackathon
> at her office premises.
>
> I have been brainstorming with her to conduct the hackathon. We have couple
> of ideas that we could hack on 12th Oct 2013 starting 9:00 am.
>

          Being a long weekend(with festivals as well), a lot of us
are travelling to our respective home towns. Would have helped had it
been arranged for the next weekend. Any chances of postponing it ?
Thanks




-- 
Thank you
Balachandran Sivakumar

Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
                                                             - Swami Vivekananda

Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/

From anupkalburgi at gmail.com  Thu Oct 10 19:49:20 2013
From: anupkalburgi at gmail.com (anup kalburgi)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 13:49:20 -0400
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 14
In-Reply-To: <mailman.13.1381399201.24997.bangpypers@python.org>
References: <mailman.13.1381399201.24997.bangpypers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAKHq9smHMVa2rZeOaixOgX9Z1J1r7C4ZUsCZLrYTj=2900txZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I need some suggestions on how to aggregate data from different api's.

I am trying to build a web application, which is going to get data from
multiple api's
I have done this in my past but it was a pain to maintain it later. API
keys change, (some guys just go and change the Data format!!! .. but
assuming we have only good guys out :P )

How to store configurations of different API ?  -- Like access keys etc ..
Store it in DB or a plain text file ?
What if there are multiple ones like SOAP, and REST, How do we deal with
such a situation ?

Any advice/experience in regards to the above would be helpful.
I know most of the time it depends on what are the requirements , but then
i wanted to know how it is done .

(I am trying to do this, using Django. )




-- 
Anup P Kalburgi
www.anupkalburgi.in

From sunitav at thoughtworks.com  Thu Oct 10 20:14:06 2013
From: sunitav at thoughtworks.com (Sunita Venkatachalam)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2013 23:44:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
Message-ID: <CADEWdvih3uHftWzabiDNaZaHuuT6SN9jyZk4HLm_ZfC9=AmJsA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Folks
I'm happy to see so many responses. When we decided on the date, we didn't
realize the long weekend implications. We'll do better next time.
Postponing may not be possible, but we'll surely try and do this again
soon, hopefully with learnings from this event. Having it as a smaller
groups for the first time, is probably also a better idea for us organizers.

Sunita



On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 11:18 PM, Balachandran Sivakumar <
benignbala at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Annapoornima Koppad <a.koppad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Sunita, who works with Thoughtworks is willing to host a one day
> hackathon
> > at her office premises.
> >
> > I have been brainstorming with her to conduct the hackathon. We have
> couple
> > of ideas that we could hack on 12th Oct 2013 starting 9:00 am.
> >
>
>           Being a long weekend(with festivals as well), a lot of us
> are travelling to our respective home towns. Would have helped had it
> been arranged for the next weekend. Any chances of postponing it ?
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> --
> Thank you
> Balachandran Sivakumar
>
> Arise Awake and stop not till the goal is reached.
>                                                              - Swami
> Vivekananda
>
> Mail: benignbala at gmail.com
> Blog: http://benignbala.wordpress.com/
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From lgp171188 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 20:13:18 2013
From: lgp171188 at gmail.com (L. Guruprasad)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 23:43:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52583FBE.50802@gmail.com>

On Tuesday 08 October 2013 06:43 PM, Kartik Singhal wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, ragsagar <ragsagar at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Don't follow djangobook.com. It is outdated!
>>
> 
> It is, as it says on the homepage, but is still full of useful concepts
> that are very hard to gather from the docs directly. Just need to be ready
> to face variations in the features/syntax that you will keep encountering
> while reading this. Also, comments on most of the paragraphs of the book
> can come useful when you get stuck.

Django Book 2.0 is in the process of being updated to contain content on
the latest versions of Django and it is a work in progress. Jacob
Kaplan-Moss has a GitHub repository of the site code and book chapters
at https://github.com/jacobian/djangobook.com. A lot of people are
updating the chapters and sending pull requests. I have contributed to
that initiative as well. It would be great if a lot more people could
contribute and make the book content up-to-date.

Thanks & Regards,
Guruprasad


From svaksha at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 20:27:17 2013
From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 18:27:17 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Beginner to Django Framework
In-Reply-To: <52583FBE.50802@gmail.com>
References: <CAAnWjkwq+rr3M=ymeyxVt-VGib8ASrAwWJQ2aY-28n9K=7YY5g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAG1ZUWdPBhTqQpN7ZPTnO=EA+0rU8WL1f63WdQ-3-RZFMqzw1A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO5c=mki2TmeE+t+07AHepr=5O4_0kbnJCv22tfabv=CfSm4xA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CACEP=sZ3Tc9jLez8Of4b+Nq5aE4-73CrJmVvey5aH2BGaGcAMA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAY3Td5N8h-sfPBVGiWdMWTCTYGaYk8D1fhYtuKwvcJ8AZEgtQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <52583FBE.50802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9ztG9WDDMD-FyRQEV_v=5-SZaTovYqKPKMa2H2F8hO_FptUg@mail.gmail.com>

https://code.djangoproject.com/wiki/DjangoResources , has a bunch of
useful links too.
? svaksha ?

From svaksha at gmail.com  Fri Oct 11 04:03:15 2013
From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 02:03:15 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9ztG-PpFSBMcPQe+5ur56XsUdO_9AXztbpyG_qM3UnWePJbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Prakhar Goel <prakhar at prakhargoel.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the invite. I would like to join the hackathon. Details-
> i at prakhargoel.com, 9901817858.

The RSVP is via meetup :
http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/
HTH, ? svaksha ?

From avneesh.chadha at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 14:52:44 2013
From: avneesh.chadha at gmail.com (Avneesh Chadha)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:22:44 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively worked
in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some extent(used
it for competing at code chef).

I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people for
python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.

I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be focusing on
while studying for it and what should I expect.

A little about the process up till now-
They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but toned
down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.

Now i have  telephonic interview.

They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django is a
plus.

I have 2 days to prepare for it.
Thanks.

From vinayakh at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 15:05:44 2013
From: vinayakh at gmail.com (Vinayak Hegde)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:35:44 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAKe6YvNye1U8FeWH4o9vOhY0LJR=rKXRuWN77yTYx1BbJNj4Kg@mail.gmail.com>

Since you are already somewhat comfortable with python. I suggest the
following depending on how much time you have.

1. Learn Python the hard way
http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
Work your way through the book as much as possible

2. Project Euler
http://projecteuler.net/
Implement some of the problems here to get a good hang of things

3. Python Module of the week
If you do some half-decent work with python you will be using a lot of
libraries.
Start with this pdf http://pymotw.com/2/PyMOTW-1.132.pdf to get an overview
of some of the modules. Also python documentation is quite extensive.

As for Django, The documentation is decent (just check the version you are
working on). I have read good review of two scoop of Django but not read it
myself.

-- Vinayak



On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively worked
> in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some extent(used
> it for competing at code chef).
>
> I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people for
> python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.
>
> I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be focusing on
> while studying for it and what should I expect.
>
> A little about the process up till now-
> They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but toned
> down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.
>
> Now i have  telephonic interview.
>
> They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django is a
> plus.
>
> I have 2 days to prepare for it.
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From satishsagar83 at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 17:57:16 2013
From: satishsagar83 at gmail.com (L Radhakrishna Rao)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:27:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAKe6YvNye1U8FeWH4o9vOhY0LJR=rKXRuWN77yTYx1BbJNj4Kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKe6YvNye1U8FeWH4o9vOhY0LJR=rKXRuWN77yTYx1BbJNj4Kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAZd-jRgKL+wPrLnD1Dnw1pzOrO0ORfUwx8UR_NwSv9wKLCvNA@mail.gmail.com>

Focus more on problem solving, not language.

It is problem solving ability, which is seen.






On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Vinayak Hegde <vinayakh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Since you are already somewhat comfortable with python. I suggest the
> following depending on how much time you have.
>
> 1. Learn Python the hard way
> http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
> Work your way through the book as much as possible
>
> 2. Project Euler
> http://projecteuler.net/
> Implement some of the problems here to get a good hang of things
>
> 3. Python Module of the week
> If you do some half-decent work with python you will be using a lot of
> libraries.
> Start with this pdf http://pymotw.com/2/PyMOTW-1.132.pdf to get an
> overview
> of some of the modules. Also python documentation is quite extensive.
>
> As for Django, The documentation is decent (just check the version you are
> working on). I have read good review of two scoop of Django but not read it
> myself.
>
> -- Vinayak
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi guys,
> >
> > I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively worked
> > in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some extent(used
> > it for competing at code chef).
> >
> > I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people for
> > python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.
> >
> > I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be focusing
> on
> > while studying for it and what should I expect.
> >
> > A little about the process up till now-
> > They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but
> toned
> > down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.
> >
> > Now i have  telephonic interview.
> >
> > They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django
> is a
> > plus.
> >
> > I have 2 days to prepare for it.
> > Thanks.
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Mon Oct 14 18:06:06 2013
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 21:36:06 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAAZd-jRgKL+wPrLnD1Dnw1pzOrO0ORfUwx8UR_NwSv9wKLCvNA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAKe6YvNye1U8FeWH4o9vOhY0LJR=rKXRuWN77yTYx1BbJNj4Kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAZd-jRgKL+wPrLnD1Dnw1pzOrO0ORfUwx8UR_NwSv9wKLCvNA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mnZ8sFhm0CZvd7Jw31nncJm_GKnCMD4zuqCooTsEN4iFQ@mail.gmail.com>

Few reddit links

1.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1knw7z/python_interview_questions/
2.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/dxvtv/favorite_python_interview_question/
3.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/1dbls9/python_interview_question_and_answers/



On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:27 PM, L Radhakrishna Rao <satishsagar83 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Focus more on problem solving, not language.
>
> It is problem solving ability, which is seen.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Vinayak Hegde <vinayakh at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Since you are already somewhat comfortable with python. I suggest the
> > following depending on how much time you have.
> >
> > 1. Learn Python the hard way
> > http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/
> > Work your way through the book as much as possible
> >
> > 2. Project Euler
> > http://projecteuler.net/
> > Implement some of the problems here to get a good hang of things
> >
> > 3. Python Module of the week
> > If you do some half-decent work with python you will be using a lot of
> > libraries.
> > Start with this pdf http://pymotw.com/2/PyMOTW-1.132.pdf to get an
> > overview
> > of some of the modules. Also python documentation is quite extensive.
> >
> > As for Django, The documentation is decent (just check the version you
> are
> > working on). I have read good review of two scoop of Django but not read
> it
> > myself.
> >
> > -- Vinayak
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Avneesh Chadha <
> avneesh.chadha at gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hi guys,
> > >
> > > I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively
> worked
> > > in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some
> extent(used
> > > it for competing at code chef).
> > >
> > > I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people
> for
> > > python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.
> > >
> > > I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be
> focusing
> > on
> > > while studying for it and what should I expect.
> > >
> > > A little about the process up till now-
> > > They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but
> > toned
> > > down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.
> > >
> > > Now i have  telephonic interview.
> > >
> > > They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django
> > is a
> > > plus.
> > >
> > > I have 2 days to prepare for it.
> > > Thanks.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
*
Thanks & Regards

kracekumar
"Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds
http://kracekumar.com
*

From pranav09032 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 14 22:01:56 2013
From: pranav09032 at hotmail.com (Pranav Raj)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:01:56 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL130-W92745295FB22D89AA702BFED1A0@phx.gbl>



> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:22:44 +0530
> From: avneesh.chadha at gmail.com
> To: bangpypers at python.org
Learning Django may take some time, but python is a programming language in which you don't have to put any extra effort in learning if you know any other programming language. 
I suggest you first go through some examples to get a feel of python and once you feel comfortable start coding.I don't think it will take a lot of time for you to learn python.

> Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively worked
> in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some extent(used
> it for competing at code chef).
> 
> I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people for
> python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.
> 
> I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be focusing on
> while studying for it and what should I expect.
> 
> A little about the process up till now-
> They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but toned
> down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.
> 
> Now i have  telephonic interview.
> 
> They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django is a
> plus.
> 
> I have 2 days to prepare for it.
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
 		 	   		  

From pranav09032 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 14 22:16:58 2013
From: pranav09032 at hotmail.com (Pranav Raj)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 20:16:58 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
Message-ID: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>

Hi fellow python lovers, 

I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different from other programming languages?


thank you, Pranav Raj 
 		 	   		  

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 00:40:31 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 04:10:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi fellow python lovers,
>
> I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different from other programming languages?

http://stackoverflow.com/a/1641236/12754

I am not sure what the history or reasoning was. But encapsulation is
not considered particularly desirable or useful.

I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite
different. You will find python having superior constructs eg.
metaclasses etc. if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java. Just
start using the features and over a period of time you will gain a
reasonable understanding of the subtleties.
>
>
> thank you, Pranav Raj
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From navin at smriti.com  Tue Oct 15 07:55:41 2013
From: navin at smriti.com (Navin Kabra)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 11:25:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>

If I were interviewing you, I would not really be checking your python
knowledge (unless you claimed to be good in Python in your resume). I
would really check how good you are in Java (your primary language), and
your general programming and problem solving skills.

However, if I really wanted someone good in Python right now, I would
check how far you had progressed in writing 'pythonic' code. Here is one
attempt at making a list of features that newbies (i.e. people migrating
to python from other languages) typically miss, or learn late in life.

- List comprehensions and generators.
- Familiarity with the standard library - too much re-invention of the
  wheel exists in the world today. You shouldn't be adding to that problem.
- Use of *args and **kwargs
- knowledge of itertools
- Docstrings and Doctests
- scipy/numpy/matplotlib if you're doing anything with data


Even more advanced features - I really wouldn't expect you to know
these, but if you did, that would impress me:

- Generator expressions (and how to create those yourself). Combine with list comprehensions
- Decorators - to make your code concise and more readable. And learn to create decorators
- Understanding of python closures. A lot of complex code gets written by people who don't think of using an appropriate closure
- The 'with' statement.
- Properties.

I adapted this from here:
http://www.quora.com/Navin-Kabra/answers/Python-programming-language-1

Also check out this StackOverflow question:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/101268/hidden-features-of-python


Avneesh Chadha <avneesh.chadha at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi guys,
>
> I am going in for my first python interview. I have never actively worked
> in python(java programmer) but am comfortable with it to some extent(used
> it for competing at code chef).
>
> I am sure all you python gurus probably would have interviewed people for
> python and many of you would have given lots of interviews for Python.
>
> I could really use some tips on what exactly should I really be focusing on
> while studying for it and what should I expect.
>
> A little about the process up till now-
> They sent me a problem to solve(the usual code jam type problem, but toned
> down in difficulty) which i was able to do correctly.
>
> Now i have  telephonic interview.
>
> They basically require people strong in python and knowledge of django is a
> plus.
>
> I have 2 days to prepare for it.
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 08:37:19 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 12:07:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4PT5gWv9d=doN2-8VDgxN6Qx5hgxft-UeRBe7rKOLKFng@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com> wrote:
> If I were interviewing you, I would not really be checking your python
> knowledge (unless you claimed to be good in Python in your resume). I
> would really check how good you are in Java (your primary language), and
> your general programming and problem solving skills.

+1. I always prefer to ask someone what he is really good at and
assuming one of the interviewing team has good exposure to that go
really deep.

I know this is not an answer to your question, but is more an aside -
interviewing someone who claims limited knowledge or exposure to
something is more often than not a futile exercise unless the
candidate turns out really strong. If the candidate cannot answer the
questions well, it is very hard to reach any reasonable assessment.

So if I was the interviewer, I would really not worry about how much
python you knew, but instead go after your java skills because thats
what you've primarily worked on, and its your java knowledge that
would be the decisive factor.

From tsk.kamath at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 10:28:08 2013
From: tsk.kamath at gmail.com (T S KAMATH)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 10:28:08 +0200
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>

Dear Pranav,

The following video would get you understand better http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 - Painless Python Part 1 & 2

Srikanth

On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi fellow python lovers, 

I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different from other programming languages?


thank you, Pranav Raj 
		 	   		  
_______________________________________________
BangPypers mailing list
BangPypers at python.org
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers


From dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 11:03:57 2013
From: dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com (Dhruv Baldawa)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 14:33:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>

Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger

--
Dhruv Baldawa
(http://www.dhruvb.com)


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM, T S KAMATH <tsk.kamath at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Pranav,
>
> The following video would get you understand better
> http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 -
> Painless Python Part 1 & 2
>
> Srikanth
>
> On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi fellow python lovers,
>
> I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there
> are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes
> have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different
> from other programming languages?
>
>
> thank you, Pranav Raj
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From nitin.nitp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 13:12:35 2013
From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 16:42:35 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit,
 Technicolor India: Pipeline Technical Director (TD)
In-Reply-To: <BD62B8F3509C874A94859BA79891587B0A3504E9@BGLRSMAIL01.ap.thmulti.com>
References: <BD62B8F3509C874A94859BA79891587B0A3504E9@BGLRSMAIL01.ap.thmulti.com>
Message-ID: <CALqiT-uTeNv0JzLSTXiR5JJYF=SdSbFuVYkcWpXq3vyEEc06HA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sneha,

Can I get the feedback from the panel. Just want to know where is my
process or I am out of the Queue itself :)
Anticipating your reply.

Nitin K


On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Venkatraman Sneha <
sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com> wrote:

> Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore)
>
> About the company:
>
> DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment
> including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that
> have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In
> mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create
> DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for
> DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully
> functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India.
>
> ?...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to
> computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our
> strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are
> creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this
> goal I?m proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than
> anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people.?
>
> - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG
>
>
> The Studio - Life at DDU
>
> While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the
> employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture
> that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the ?100 Best Companies to
> Work For? by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently
> ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks
> Animation?s other campuses through proprietary tools and technology
> including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms.
>
> The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to
> tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks
> characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the
> highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks
> Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse
> collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff
> including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as
> Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA.
>
> The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length
> feature film - ?Penguins of Madagascar?, after having successfully
> delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared
> Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to
> full-feature animated films such as ?Puss In Boots?, ?Madagascar 3 -
> Europe?s Most Wanted? and ?Rise of the Guardians?.
>
> In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment
> properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio,
> fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training
> department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training
> to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films
> and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks
> Animation?s movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU
> celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse
> group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group,
> DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer
> groups, film club and more.
>
> At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire
> audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create
> but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it!
>
> Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about
> work and life at the DDU:
>
> DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503
>
> DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459
>
> DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882
>
>
>
> How is python is used in the company:
>
> DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are
> executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost
> all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party
> software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex,
> boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable
> distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all
> built on python.
>
>
>
> Pipeline TD Job Description:
>
> A Technical Director (TD) provides pipeline support for production artists
> and department heads, and enables artist to work more self-sufficiently. A
> TD will design, develop, and implement new tools and processes for a
> particular show or department, as well as triage and debug technical
> issues. A TD is the first line of defense for their department for
> technical issues and is the liaisons with R&D and other technology
> departments.
>
>
>
>
> Responsibilities:
>
>
> ?     Work closely with assigned production department to aid them in
> meeting their creative goals.
>
> ?     Provide support when there are technical issues.
>
> ?     Develop tools and enhance the pipeline to reduce complexity.
>
> ?     Teach classes and write documentation to educate artists and
> establish best practices.
>
> ?     Implement solutions for inefficiencies in the production pipeline.
>
> ?     Anticipate problems and proactively resolve them.
>
> ?     Aid in designing and implementing tools and workflows in line with
> studio goals and standards.
>
> ?     Assist in the training and mentoring of Entry Level Technical
> Directors.
>
>
>
> Requirements:
>
> ?     3-5 years of feature level production experience preferable.
>
> ?     B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent
> recommended.
>
> ?     Strong fundamental Computer Graphics knowledge. (transform matrices,
> vector mathematics, shading models)
>
> ?     Strong computer science and programming skills. (OOP, systems
> design, Python, C++, tcsh, Mel)
>
> ?     Experience with the Unix/Linux environment.
>
> ?     Excellent problem-solving skills.
>
> ?     Competent at supporting third party applications (Maya, Massive,
> Houdini, Nuke)
>
> ?     Ability to take direction and establish priorities, work
> independently or with a group, and perform with minimal supervision.
>
> ?     Ability to proactively identify issues and resolve them.
>
> ?     ?Customer first? mentality and willingness to provide direct support
> to individuals.
>
> ?     Excellent verbal and written communication skills.
>
>
>
> To apply:
>
> Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From nitin.nitp at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 13:47:50 2013
From: nitin.nitp at gmail.com (Nitin Kumar)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:17:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] DreamWorks Dedicated Unit,
 Technicolor India: Pipeline Technical Director (TD)
In-Reply-To: <CALqiT-uTeNv0JzLSTXiR5JJYF=SdSbFuVYkcWpXq3vyEEc06HA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BD62B8F3509C874A94859BA79891587B0A3504E9@BGLRSMAIL01.ap.thmulti.com>
 <CALqiT-uTeNv0JzLSTXiR5JJYF=SdSbFuVYkcWpXq3vyEEc06HA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALqiT-tycVYHpfDCZi3MAjti3BgCySeKv5RWaMAEP6pC7x1qcw@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry for my last mail.

I wish reply would have gone to the originator and not to the group, the
way it used to work earlier. :(

Sorry for spamming.

Nitin K
On 15-Oct-2013 4:42 PM, "Nitin Kumar" <nitin.nitp at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Sneha,
>
> Can I get the feedback from the panel. Just want to know where is my
> process or I am out of the Queue itself :)
> Anticipating your reply.
>
> Nitin K
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Venkatraman Sneha <
> sneha.venkatraman at technicolor.com> wrote:
>
>> Openings at DreamWorks Dedicated Unit Technicolor, India (Bangalore)
>>
>> About the company:
>>
>> DreamWorks Animation is a leading producer of high-quality entertainment
>> including CG animated feature films, television series and specials, that
>> have included franchises such as Shrek, Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda. In
>> mid-2008, DreamWorks Animation partnered with Technicolor India to create
>> DreamWorks Dedicated Unit (DDU), Technicolor India, the first studio for
>> DreamWorks Animation outside of the US, with the goal of creating a fully
>> functioning studio for DreamWorks Animation in India.
>>
>> ?...We have transformed over the years from hand-drawn animation to
>> computer-generated films to being a leader in 3D entertainment. Our
>> strategy has remained the same: to produce great stories that are
>> creatively driven and technologically state-of-the-art. In pursuit of this
>> goal I?m proud to say that what defines DreamWorks Animation more than
>> anything else is the dedication and the expertise of our people.?
>>
>> - Jeffrey Katzenberg, CEO, DreamWorks Animation SKG
>>
>>
>> The Studio - Life at DDU
>>
>> While DDU operates under the HR umbrella of Technicolor India, the
>> employees are provided the same world class facilities and work culture
>> that has propelled DreamWorks Animation among the ?100 Best Companies to
>> Work For? by FORTUNE(r) Magazine for four consecutive years and currently
>> ranked at #12 in 2013. DDU integrates seamlessly with DreamWorks
>> Animation?s other campuses through proprietary tools and technology
>> including state-of-the-art video conferencing facilities and review rooms.
>>
>> The employees of DDU, led by world class leadership, share a passion to
>> tell stories and make movies and bring your most beloved DreamWorks
>> characters to life, with an unflinching commitment to delivering the
>> highest level of quality that has become the hallmark of DreamWorks
>> Animation. It is hence not surprising that DDU attracts a diverse
>> collection of artists, technologists, production and corporate staff
>> including a sizeable number of international talent from countries such as
>> Australia, Belgium, France, Spain, Singapore, Thailand and USA.
>>
>> The artists at DDU are currently working on their first full-length
>> feature film - ?Penguins of Madagascar?, after having successfully
>> delivered highly rated TV specials such as Merry Madagascar, Scared
>> Shrekless, Madly Madagascar, beside adding valuable contributions to
>> full-feature animated films such as ?Puss In Boots?, ?Madagascar 3 -
>> Europe?s Most Wanted? and ?Rise of the Guardians?.
>>
>> In addition to getting to work on the most prized entertainment
>> properties, every day DreamWorkers enjoy free breakfast at the studio,
>> fitness classes such yoga and pilates, art galleries and more. The training
>> department at DDU provides a wide range of artistic and technical training
>> to enhance the ongoing development of our employees. To celebrate our films
>> and company milestones, DDU has premiere screenings of all of DreamWorks
>> Animation?s movies to all employees and their families. At its core, DDU
>> celebrates the unique personalities of our employees. We support a diverse
>> group of employee interests at work including the DDU Photography group,
>> DDU Badminton club, GreenWorks (with Eco friendly members), volunteer
>> groups, film club and more.
>>
>> At the heart of DDU is the desire to tell great stories and inspire
>> audiences. Our company culture encourages our employees to not only create
>> but also innovate and, ultimately, have fun while at it!
>>
>> Follow these links to see and hear what our employees have to say about
>> work and life at the DDU:
>>
>> DDU Sizzle reel (life at DDU): http://vimeo.com/32071503
>>
>> DDU 2011 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/20462459
>>
>> DDU 2012 Studio reel: http://vimeo.com/50970882
>>
>>
>>
>> How is python is used in the company:
>>
>> DreamWorks Animation's day to day technical production operations are
>> executed using its complex scalable proprietary pipeline, which is almost
>> all python based. In addition, almost all the proprietary and third party
>> software tools provide a python extension language through pyrex,
>> boost.python and pyQt. The NxG pipeline for the studio is a highly scalable
>> distributed system with complex taskflow mgmt systems and analytics all
>> built on python.
>>
>>
>>
>> Pipeline TD Job Description:
>>
>> A Technical Director (TD) provides pipeline support for production
>> artists and department heads, and enables artist to work more
>> self-sufficiently. A TD will design, develop, and implement new tools and
>> processes for a particular show or department, as well as triage and debug
>> technical issues. A TD is the first line of defense for their department
>> for technical issues and is the liaisons with R&D and other technology
>> departments.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Responsibilities:
>>
>>
>> ?     Work closely with assigned production department to aid them in
>> meeting their creative goals.
>>
>> ?     Provide support when there are technical issues.
>>
>> ?     Develop tools and enhance the pipeline to reduce complexity.
>>
>> ?     Teach classes and write documentation to educate artists and
>> establish best practices.
>>
>> ?     Implement solutions for inefficiencies in the production pipeline.
>>
>> ?     Anticipate problems and proactively resolve them.
>>
>> ?     Aid in designing and implementing tools and workflows in line with
>> studio goals and standards.
>>
>> ?     Assist in the training and mentoring of Entry Level Technical
>> Directors.
>>
>>
>>
>> Requirements:
>>
>> ?     3-5 years of feature level production experience preferable.
>>
>> ?     B.S. or M.S. in Computer Science, Engineering or equivalent
>> recommended.
>>
>> ?     Strong fundamental Computer Graphics knowledge. (transform
>> matrices, vector mathematics, shading models)
>>
>> ?     Strong computer science and programming skills. (OOP, systems
>> design, Python, C++, tcsh, Mel)
>>
>> ?     Experience with the Unix/Linux environment.
>>
>> ?     Excellent problem-solving skills.
>>
>> ?     Competent at supporting third party applications (Maya, Massive,
>> Houdini, Nuke)
>>
>> ?     Ability to take direction and establish priorities, work
>> independently or with a group, and perform with minimal supervision.
>>
>> ?     Ability to proactively identify issues and resolve them.
>>
>> ?     ?Customer first? mentality and willingness to provide direct
>> support to individuals.
>>
>> ?     Excellent verbal and written communication skills.
>>
>>
>>
>> To apply:
>>
>> Please email your applications to: careers.ddu at technicolor.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
>
>

From ashish.makani at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 17:26:50 2013
From: ashish.makani at gmail.com (ashish makani)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 20:56:50 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4PT5gWv9d=doN2-8VDgxN6Qx5hgxft-UeRBe7rKOLKFng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>
 <CAD2aR4PT5gWv9d=doN2-8VDgxN6Qx5hgxft-UeRBe7rKOLKFng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEX1urj-639Z72qnqPpBRqY0_8mEd-YJk7Wv_2HU4eGkqrz=Uw@mail.gmail.com>

Lots of great links & resources !
Thanks Krace for the great reddit links


Time complexity of operations on python data structures might be useful

https://wiki.python.org/moin/TimeComplexity

All the best Avneesh !
Update this thread with the questions you got asked after the interview

cheers
ashish

*The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t found
it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart,
you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)*


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com> wrote:
> > If I were interviewing you, I would not really be checking your python
> > knowledge (unless you claimed to be good in Python in your resume). I
> > would really check how good you are in Java (your primary language), and
> > your general programming and problem solving skills.
>
> +1. I always prefer to ask someone what he is really good at and
> assuming one of the interviewing team has good exposure to that go
> really deep.
>
> I know this is not an answer to your question, but is more an aside -
> interviewing someone who claims limited knowledge or exposure to
> something is more often than not a futile exercise unless the
> candidate turns out really strong. If the candidate cannot answer the
> questions well, it is very hard to reach any reasonable assessment.
>
> So if I was the interviewer, I would really not worry about how much
> python you knew, but instead go after your java skills because thats
> what you've primarily worked on, and its your java knowledge that
> would be the decisive factor.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From deshpande.jaidev at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 19:03:41 2013
From: deshpande.jaidev at gmail.com (Jaidev Deshpande)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 22:33:41 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: Please spread the word (CFP: SciPy India 2013:
	Dec 13 - 15, IIT Bombay)
In-Reply-To: <CANSDg7On2PwNxud1s2hBy7rmuVHWzOYSeERDyjc6QQe7O0z+qg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <525D7410.1020309@aero.iitb.ac.in>
 <CANSDg7On2PwNxud1s2hBy7rmuVHWzOYSeERDyjc6QQe7O0z+qg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB=suE=C5Kc5P429Tp6XD03e9Y6pDrNUTzKdn4VsmFn+NMCSjg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

The CFP and registration for SciPy India 2013 (http://scipy.in) is
open.  SciPy India 2013 will be held in IIT Bombay between December
13th to December 15th, 2013.

Please spread the word!

SciPy India is an annual conference on using Python for science and
engineering research and education. The conference is currently in its
fifth year and provides an opportunity to learn and implement Python
in education and research.


Call for Papers
================

We look forward to your submissions on the use of Python for
scientific computing and education. This includes pedagogy,
exploration, modeling and analysis from both applied and
developmental perspectives. We welcome contributions from academia
as well as industry.

For details on the paper submission please see here:

 http://scipy.in/2013/call-for-proposals/

Important Dates
================

  - Call for proposals end: 24th November 2013
  - List of accepted proposals will be published: 1st December 2013.


We look forward to seeing you at SciPy India.

Regards,
Prabhu Ramachandran and Jarrod Millman

From hardythe1 at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 19:41:05 2013
From: hardythe1 at gmail.com (Hardik Ghaghada)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 23:11:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [ANN] CFP: SciPy India 2013: Dec 13 - 15, IIT Bombay
Message-ID: <CAFacc5oqu4i4-st6Zx49Xk1P19e45MC3_wigwGVDvFdPxfd40g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

The CFP and registration for SciPy India 2013 (http://scipy.in) is
open.  SciPy India 2013 will be held in IIT Bombay between December
13th to December 15th, 2013.

Please spread the word!

SciPy India is an annual conference on using Python for science and
engineering research and education. The conference is currently in its
fifth year and provides an opportunity to learn and implement Python
in education and research.


Call for Papers
================

We look forward to your submissions on the use of Python for
scientific computing and education. This includes pedagogy,
exploration, modeling and analysis from both applied and
developmental perspectives. We welcome contributions from academia
as well as industry.

For details on the paper submission please see here:

 http://scipy.in/2013/call-for-proposals/

Important Dates
================

  - Call for proposals end: 24th November 2013
  - List of accepted proposals will be published: 1st December 2013.


We look forward to seeing you at SciPy India.

Regards,
Prabhu Ramachandran and Jarrod Millman

From ashish.makani at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 07:20:38 2013
From: ashish.makani at gmail.com (ashish makani)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 10:50:38 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAEX1urj-639Z72qnqPpBRqY0_8mEd-YJk7Wv_2HU4eGkqrz=Uw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>
 <CAD2aR4PT5gWv9d=doN2-8VDgxN6Qx5hgxft-UeRBe7rKOLKFng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEX1urj-639Z72qnqPpBRqY0_8mEd-YJk7Wv_2HU4eGkqrz=Uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEX1urigSXxg88LbgNg_fYeU2s=Q_wvrF=tGAXWfhXscKGTMmg@mail.gmail.com>

Some really insightful stuff here

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6559404
http://www.interviewcake.com/tips-and-tricks


*The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t found
it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart,
you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)*


On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM, ashish makani <ashish.makani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lots of great links & resources !
> Thanks Krace for the great reddit links
>
>
> Time complexity of operations on python data structures might be useful
>
> https://wiki.python.org/moin/TimeComplexity
>
> All the best Avneesh !
> Update this thread with the questions you got asked after the interview
>
> cheers
> ashish
>
> *The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t
> found it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart,
> you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)*
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com> wrote:
>> > If I were interviewing you, I would not really be checking your python
>> > knowledge (unless you claimed to be good in Python in your resume). I
>> > would really check how good you are in Java (your primary language), and
>> > your general programming and problem solving skills.
>>
>> +1. I always prefer to ask someone what he is really good at and
>> assuming one of the interviewing team has good exposure to that go
>> really deep.
>>
>> I know this is not an answer to your question, but is more an aside -
>> interviewing someone who claims limited knowledge or exposure to
>> something is more often than not a futile exercise unless the
>> candidate turns out really strong. If the candidate cannot answer the
>> questions well, it is very hard to reach any reasonable assessment.
>>
>> So if I was the interviewer, I would really not worry about how much
>> python you knew, but instead go after your java skills because thats
>> what you've primarily worked on, and its your java knowledge that
>> would be the decisive factor.
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
>
>

From jace at pobox.com  Thu Oct 17 18:49:28 2013
From: jace at pobox.com (Kiran Jonnalagadda)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 22:19:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAN9ztG-PpFSBMcPQe+5ur56XsUdO_9AXztbpyG_qM3UnWePJbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9ztG-PpFSBMcPQe+5ur56XsUdO_9AXztbpyG_qM3UnWePJbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFhXvyHDf1B65J2aQ6LRTxCtik8sJHUNQte=Kqwx4T7ROxtL3w@mail.gmail.com>

Svaksha, how did the event go? Did you have a nanny? We've been considering
a dedicated childcare area at events, but don't have a sense of whether
there will be takers.

Kiran

-- 
Kiran Jonnalagadda
http://jace.zaiki.in/
http://hasgeek.com/

(Sent from my phone)
On Oct 12, 2013 12:07 AM, "svaksha" <svaksha at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Prakhar Goel <prakhar at prakhargoel.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Thanks for the invite. I would like to join the hackathon. Details-
> > i at prakhargoel.com, 9901817858.
>
> The RSVP is via meetup :
> http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/
> HTH, ? svaksha ?
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From modi.konark at gmail.com  Thu Oct 17 21:22:39 2013
From: modi.konark at gmail.com (konark modi)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 00:52:39 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] First python interview
In-Reply-To: <CAEX1urigSXxg88LbgNg_fYeU2s=Q_wvrF=tGAXWfhXscKGTMmg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAApbY-Y14q6g1nQHPYbJKeVRq8OS4chPG0s8+TgyXVgb0vDpEg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAApbY-YzPTXOh6h7VWbMQWSLDayRTL18Z4FY4B3u9BqijsRt-w@mail.gmail.com>
 <874n8j2i3m.fsf@smriti.com>
 <CAD2aR4PT5gWv9d=doN2-8VDgxN6Qx5hgxft-UeRBe7rKOLKFng@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEX1urj-639Z72qnqPpBRqY0_8mEd-YJk7Wv_2HU4eGkqrz=Uw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEX1urigSXxg88LbgNg_fYeU2s=Q_wvrF=tGAXWfhXscKGTMmg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPhs5j-UL_4UjmRppc1xOY4bZ22MG3_kHHUOEcpqCzy3__yUfg@mail.gmail.com>

This is a great introduction to data structures and algorithms and that too
in Python.
http://interactivepython.org/courselib/static/pythonds/Introduction/introduction.html

Regards
Konark


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:50 AM, ashish makani <ashish.makani at gmail.com>wrote:

> Some really insightful stuff here
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6559404
> http://www.interviewcake.com/tips-and-tricks
>
>
> *The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t found
> it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the heart,
> you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)*
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 8:56 PM, ashish makani <ashish.makani at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Lots of great links & resources !
> > Thanks Krace for the great reddit links
> >
> >
> > Time complexity of operations on python data structures might be useful
> >
> > https://wiki.python.org/moin/TimeComplexity
> >
> > All the best Avneesh !
> > Update this thread with the questions you got asked after the interview
> >
> > cheers
> > ashish
> >
> > *The only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven?t
> > found it yet, keep looking. Don?t settle. As with all matters of the
> heart,
> > you?ll know when you find it.? - Steve Jobs (1955 - 2011)*
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Dhananjay Nene <
> dhananjay.nene at gmail.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:25 AM, Navin Kabra <navin at smriti.com> wrote:
> >> > If I were interviewing you, I would not really be checking your python
> >> > knowledge (unless you claimed to be good in Python in your resume). I
> >> > would really check how good you are in Java (your primary language),
> and
> >> > your general programming and problem solving skills.
> >>
> >> +1. I always prefer to ask someone what he is really good at and
> >> assuming one of the interviewing team has good exposure to that go
> >> really deep.
> >>
> >> I know this is not an answer to your question, but is more an aside -
> >> interviewing someone who claims limited knowledge or exposure to
> >> something is more often than not a futile exercise unless the
> >> candidate turns out really strong. If the candidate cannot answer the
> >> questions well, it is very hard to reach any reasonable assessment.
> >>
> >> So if I was the interviewer, I would really not worry about how much
> >> python you knew, but instead go after your java skills because thats
> >> what you've primarily worked on, and its your java knowledge that
> >> would be the decisive factor.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BangPypers mailing list
> >> BangPypers at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com  Tue Oct 15 13:14:42 2013
From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 16:44:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Pranav,

I would pose a counter question regarding object oriented programming. How
did you learn OOP concepts? I am assuming like most of us, probably through
a C++ or Java course. These courses ingrain a certain expectation of what
OOP should "look like". Which to me seems to be a dis-service to
underpinnings of Object Oriented Paradigm itself.

Python implements OOP differently from imperative languages of C family
like C++ and Java. The reason, I think is C++ and Java are very much driven
towards machine code efficiency whereas Python is very much about
developers productive.  To this end Python developers must have thought of
data hiding as not an important language goal.

Mind you Python does allow data hiding through slots but it is not as
straight forward as C++ or Java.

regards





On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com>wrote:

> Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
> http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger
>
> --
> Dhruv Baldawa
> (http://www.dhruvb.com)
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM, T S KAMATH <tsk.kamath at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Pranav,
> >
> > The following video would get you understand better
> > http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 -
> > Painless Python Part 1 & 2
> >
> > Srikanth
> >
> > On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi fellow python lovers,
> >
> > I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that
> there
> > are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes
> > have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot
> different
> > from other programming languages?
> >
> >
> > thank you, Pranav Raj
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Supreet Sethi
Ph UK: +447859172473
Ph IN: +919811143517
Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n
Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi
Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 08:03:31 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:33:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4NN05a7YLzEt=hG05A4KHmQHgf6P=u5erbuTOY7d8RihA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
> http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger

I have some serious reservations on how OO is packaged here. Wanted to
post a detailed and articulate opinion, but it is going to take a
while since I am not getting the time to do so, but will get there
eventually. In the meanwhile I do want to offer an as yet
unsubstantiated opinion that some of these are not necessarily the
best references on the topic.

>
> --
> Dhruv Baldawa
> (http://www.dhruvb.com)
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM, T S KAMATH <tsk.kamath at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Pranav,
>>
>> The following video would get you understand better
>> http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 -
>> Painless Python Part 1 & 2
>>
>> Srikanth
>>
>> On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi fellow python lovers,
>>
>> I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there
>> are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes
>> have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different
>> from other programming languages?
>>
>>
>> thank you, Pranav Raj
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 08:01:10 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 11:31:10 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4Pb5zF7=rGWqEcAZvJzFvARZweb0DHi=LraKKGUYvAfhw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM, s|s <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Pranav,
>
> I would pose a counter question regarding object oriented programming. How
> did you learn OOP concepts? I am assuming like most of us, probably through
> a C++ or Java course. These courses ingrain a certain expectation of what
> OOP should "look like". Which to me seems to be a dis-service to
> underpinnings of Object Oriented Paradigm itself.

How so ?

>
> Python implements OOP differently from imperative languages of C family
> like C++ and Java. The reason, I think is C++ and Java are very much driven
> towards machine code efficiency whereas Python is very much about
> developers productive.

Can you cite an example ?

>  To this end Python developers must have thought of
> data hiding as not an important language goal.

The traceability of the above "to this end" to "data hiding as not an
important language goal" is very unclear. Could you clarify

>
> Mind you Python does allow data hiding through slots but it is not as
> straight forward as C++ or Java.
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
>> http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger
>>
>> --
>> Dhruv Baldawa
>> (http://www.dhruvb.com)
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM, T S KAMATH <tsk.kamath at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Pranav,
>> >
>> > The following video would get you understand better
>> > http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 -
>> > Painless Python Part 1 & 2
>> >
>> > Srikanth
>> >
>> > On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi fellow python lovers,
>> >
>> > I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that
>> there
>> > are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes
>> > have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot
>> different
>> > from other programming languages?
>> >
>> >
>> > thank you, Pranav Raj
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BangPypers mailing list
>> > BangPypers at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BangPypers mailing list
>> > BangPypers at python.org
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BangPypers mailing list
>> BangPypers at python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Supreet Sethi
> Ph UK: +447859172473
> Ph IN: +919811143517
> Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n
> Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi
> Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From sunitav at thoughtworks.com  Fri Oct 18 05:49:05 2013
From: sunitav at thoughtworks.com (Sunita Venkatachalam)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 09:19:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CAFhXvyHDf1B65J2aQ6LRTxCtik8sJHUNQte=Kqwx4T7ROxtL3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9ztG-PpFSBMcPQe+5ur56XsUdO_9AXztbpyG_qM3UnWePJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFhXvyHDf1B65J2aQ6LRTxCtik8sJHUNQte=Kqwx4T7ROxtL3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADEWdviZ9abb6821bVFas4cAeoYHh8x5WsCxEmCne-sGZQ60aA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kiran,
Svaksha couldn't make it. I asked around whether we wanted a nanny but the
event was held on the eve of a long weekend (bad timing!) so women with
families didn't RSVP. We hope to continue trying and see if it makes sense
to have dedicated childcare. I know that I will need to use it, if no one
else!

Oh, and we had a turnout of 5 women and 1 man - despite the low numbers (11
had RSVPed) we actually had a good learning. It was a cosy group and that
worked very well for a first time meetup.

Sunita


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda <jace at pobox.com> wrote:

> Svaksha, how did the event go? Did you have a nanny? We've been considering
> a dedicated childcare area at events, but don't have a sense of whether
> there will be takers.
>
> Kiran
>
> --
> Kiran Jonnalagadda
> http://jace.zaiki.in/
> http://hasgeek.com/
>
> (Sent from my phone)
> On Oct 12, 2013 12:07 AM, "svaksha" <svaksha at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Prakhar Goel <prakhar at prakhargoel.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the invite. I would like to join the hackathon. Details-
> > > i at prakhargoel.com, 9901817858.
> >
> > The RSVP is via meetup :
> > http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/
> > HTH, ? svaksha ?
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From eamanshrivastava at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 18:50:54 2013
From: eamanshrivastava at gmail.com (Aman Srivastava)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:20:54 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
Message-ID: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'm new to this list.
Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
Please ping me if you have any information regarding any firm working for
the same.

From vaidhy at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 19:07:10 2013
From: vaidhy at gmail.com (Vaidhy)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:37:10 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
In-Reply-To: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMmPU6Y3eG26Nd5-XcU127MgC+KJwNdV__skU22BOkkHtD_WDQ@mail.gmail.com>

I used to work on it.. The folks in Aiaiyo labs also work on it..

-Vaidhy


On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:20 PM, Aman Srivastava <
eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to this list.
> Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
> Please ping me if you have any information regarding any firm working for
> the same.
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From eamanshrivastava at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 19:13:21 2013
From: eamanshrivastava at gmail.com (Aman Srivastava)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:43:21 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <CAO+8brzfHjNYpdmCRSx5oKUBKeP2Jp9Tx+CFmDwhfFs4uunKuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
Yes Noufal, I meant sentiment analysis and opinion mining ! I was looking
for opportunities in that field! I'm an undergrad student at BITS and was
looking for internships on applications of python in Bangalore but couldn't
find many!
Guide me, Please.
Thanks

From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Fri Oct 18 18:53:14 2013
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:23:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
In-Reply-To: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
 (Aman Srivastava's message of "Fri, 18 Oct 2013 22:20:54 +0530")
References: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87y55q8qrp.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> I'm new to this list.
> Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?

I think you mean sentiment analysis[1]. I don't think many people are
that emotionally attached to analytical work. 

[...]



Footnotes: 
[1]  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentiment_analysis

-- 
Cordially,
Noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From harishbadrinath at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 04:27:03 2013
From: harishbadrinath at gmail.com (harish badrinath)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 07:57:03 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
In-Reply-To: <87y55q8qrp.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <87y55q8qrp.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CAFUoqbdxSW92ozvqOY_OMLF1XKNVvAr_F_WbvUu3PVRsU8Z=Hw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at nibrahim.net.in>wrote:

> Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm new to this list.
> > Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
>
> Are you working on a product in the area ?

From gora at mimirtech.com  Sat Oct 19 05:20:42 2013
From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2013 08:50:42 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
In-Reply-To: <87y55q8qrp.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w@mail.gmail.com>
 <87y55q8qrp.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CACiMRGLB600P_4vwKfOFbwheYT_ABJHkcLUP_+dC2aCvv2n0tA@mail.gmail.com>

On 18 October 2013 22:23, Noufal Ibrahim <noufal at nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
> Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm new to this list.
>> Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
>
> I think you mean sentiment analysis[1]. I don't think many people are
> that emotionally attached to analytical work.

I don't know about that: Sometimes I come to love
the curves on my reports.

More seriously, yes we have dabbled in sentiment analysis,
as I am sure many other people on this list have. The
interesting work in this area has moved beyond simple
positive/negative analysis to a more nuanced evaluation.

Regards,
Gora

From eamanshrivastava at gmail.com  Sat Oct 19 21:49:29 2013
From: eamanshrivastava at gmail.com (Aman Srivastava)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 01:19:29 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
Message-ID: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
learn and apply my python !
Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
to accept interns.
*Aman Shrivastava*
*BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
*B.E Computer Science*

From svaksha at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 04:33:27 2013
From: svaksha at gmail.com (svaksha)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 02:33:27 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
In-Reply-To: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN9ztG_ntDRbO7Y3aofa4fYTjsrAkj0EomCvv+4RKYMD5pr0-g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Aman Srivastava
<eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> learn and apply my python !

Have you heard of GSoC - they will celebrate the 10th anniversary of
the program and have had many Indian students participate successfully
in the past years. Search and check the ideas page of the ProjectOrg's
who participated in the past to get a better idea of what interests
you the most - not all ideas get students, so contact the Org mentors
on IRC or the list and discuss the pending ones, how you could proceed
and prepare for the next year, etc.. They can guide you on your next
steps. Start early and good luck!

[1] http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/50-million-lines-of-code-and-counting.html
[2] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page
[3] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014

HTH, ? svaksha ?

From vijay750 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 07:30:56 2013
From: vijay750 at gmail.com (Vijay Ramachandran)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:00:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 24
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1382176801.29192.bangpypers@python.org>
References: <mailman.11.1382176801.29192.bangpypers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAP7YsuEGORzHkwbt5ri1F0ZTX3Q0uGv-QTWmiu2z5NaLfZxegw@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, <bangpypers-request at python.org> wrote:

> From: Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com>
> To: bangpypers at python.org
> Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm new to this list.
> Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
> Please ping me if you have any information regarding any firm working for
> the same.
>

Umar's company, Simplyphi, is possibly working on this under the aegis of
other text analytics projects. Umar is on this list, fyi.

Vijay

From hzmarrou at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 09:00:22 2013
From: hzmarrou at gmail.com (Hicham Zmarrou)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 09:00:22 +0200
Subject: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
In-Reply-To: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGwLZKhbUyrg41zJnZ2ycGSexSmxt-+2TfzDrjrq4Ezk=jKLmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Arman,

Are you looking for an internship in-situ or a remote internship is also ok?
We are from the Netherlands and we don't have offices in India.
Cheers,
Hicham



On 19 October 2013 21:49, Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi,
> I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> learn and apply my python !
> Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
> to accept interns.
> *Aman Shrivastava*
> *BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
> *B.E Computer Science*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From vinod.narasimhaiah at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 10:07:57 2013
From: vinod.narasimhaiah at gmail.com (Vinod Kumar Narasimhaiah)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:37:57 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
In-Reply-To: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPaifDd-AhdF8UMyMsaS3oQL_Cm7M4n6B3JuVz_G=LsFLnYSvA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aman,

We are a startup based out of bangalore and we are looking for interns.
Please send me your CV. Do you also know Django or just python?

Regards,
Vinod

On Sunday, October 20, 2013, Aman Srivastava wrote:

> Hi,
> I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> learn and apply my python !
> Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
> to accept interns.
> *Aman Shrivastava*
> *BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
> *B.E Computer Science*
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org <javascript:;>
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From gamebit07 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 20 15:59:04 2013
From: gamebit07 at gmail.com (Saket Bhushan)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 19:29:04 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 25
In-Reply-To: <mailman.11.1382263202.2386.bangpypers@python.org>
References: <mailman.11.1382263202.2386.bangpypers@python.org>
Message-ID: <CAO4xMFiA2X8yosh6vym==Ms=80ZFh6zEuMHjhWR6UpvvGRy-5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 3:30 PM, <bangpypers-request at python.org> wrote:

> Send BangPypers mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of BangPypers digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Internship Opporunity (Aman Srivastava)
>    2. Re: Internship Opporunity (svaksha)
>    3. Re: BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 24 (Vijay Ramachandran)
>    4. Re: Internship Opporunity (Hicham Zmarrou)
>    5. Re: Internship Opporunity (Vinod Kumar Narasimhaiah)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 01:19:29 +0530
> From: Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com>
> To: bangpypers at python.org
> Subject: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAO+8brxZbyh_WaCy3cvzw-85aDUW-3EFrdyF_aRVRYViWfYJhQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
> I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> learn and apply my python !
> Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
> to accept interns.
> *Aman Shrivastava*
> *BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
> *B.E Computer Science*
>
>
>
We are looking for an intern.

The job description can be found here -
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/7070001

Let us know!



> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 02:33:27 +0000
> From: svaksha <svaksha at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAN9ztG_ntDRbO7Y3aofa4fYTjsrAkj0EomCvv+4RKYMD5pr0-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Aman Srivastava
> <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> > learn and apply my python !
>
> Have you heard of GSoC - they will celebrate the 10th anniversary of
> the program and have had many Indian students participate successfully
> in the past years. Search and check the ideas page of the ProjectOrg's
> who participated in the past to get a better idea of what interests
> you the most - not all ideas get students, so contact the Org mentors
> on IRC or the list and discuss the pending ones, how you could proceed
> and prepare for the next year, etc.. They can guide you on your next
> steps. Start early and good luck!
>
> [1]
> http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2013/10/50-million-lines-of-code-and-counting.html
> [2]
> http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/document/show/gsoc_program/google/gsoc2014/help_page
> [3] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/events/google/gsoc2014
>
> HTH, ? svaksha ?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 11:00:56 +0530
> From: Vijay Ramachandran <vijay750 at gmail.com>
> To: bangpypers at python.org
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 24
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAP7YsuEGORzHkwbt5ri1F0ZTX3Q0uGv-QTWmiu2z5NaLfZxegw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, <bangpypers-request at python.org> wrote:
>
> > From: Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com>
> > To: bangpypers at python.org
> > Subject: [BangPypers] hello world
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CAO+8brz9jU4pAFF+pMMh_gsLJAY9zPz6v-wYmjTcwnGzyrCU9w at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm new to this list.
> > Anybody working with sentimental analysis here ?
> > Please ping me if you have any information regarding any firm working for
> > the same.
> >
>
> Umar's company, Simplyphi, is possibly working on this under the aegis of
> other text analytics projects. Umar is on this list, fyi.
>
> Vijay
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 09:00:22 +0200
> From: Hicham Zmarrou <hzmarrou at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGwLZKhbUyrg41zJnZ2ycGSexSmxt-+2TfzDrjrq4Ezk=
> jKLmQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Arman,
>
> Are you looking for an internship in-situ or a remote internship is also
> ok?
> We are from the Netherlands and we don't have offices in India.
> Cheers,
> Hicham
>
>
>
> On 19 October 2013 21:49, Aman Srivastava <eamanshrivastava at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> > learn and apply my python !
> > Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
> > to accept interns.
> > *Aman Shrivastava*
> > *BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
> > *B.E Computer Science*
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2013 13:37:57 +0530
> From: Vinod Kumar Narasimhaiah <vinod.narasimhaiah at gmail.com>
> To: Bangalore Python Users Group - India <bangpypers at python.org>
> Subject: Re: [BangPypers] Internship Opporunity
> Message-ID:
>         <CAPaifDd-AhdF8UMyMsaS3oQL_Cm7M4n6B3JuVz_G=
> LsFLnYSvA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Aman,
>
> We are a startup based out of bangalore and we are looking for interns.
> Please send me your CV. Do you also know Django or just python?
>
> Regards,
> Vinod
>
> On Sunday, October 20, 2013, Aman Srivastava wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > I have been looking out for any internships in Bangalore where I could
> > learn and apply my python !
> > Please ping me! If anyone of you are working at such a firm and its ready
> > to accept interns.
> > *Aman Shrivastava*
> > *BITS Pilani KK Birla Goa Campus*
> > *B.E Computer Science*
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org <javascript:;>
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 25
> ******************************************
>



-- 
Regards,
Saket Bhushan
twitter <https://twitter.com/gamebit07>,
linkedin<https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhushansaket>,
myshareplex <http://www.myshareplex.com>

From a.koppad at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 11:28:17 2013
From: a.koppad at gmail.com (Annapoornima Koppad)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 02:28:17 -0700
Subject: [BangPypers] One day hackathon at Thoughtworks Bangalore
In-Reply-To: <CADEWdviZ9abb6821bVFas4cAeoYHh8x5WsCxEmCne-sGZQ60aA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAALSmCxNsTW=1hExtQEJRntXNnzQ96fmgZDudZfLqN6kctOXYA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEi05iLYF+DK3AiPQs9z=udcwReFEgpb7epF6Wne8HAJkPsi7w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN9ztG-PpFSBMcPQe+5ur56XsUdO_9AXztbpyG_qM3UnWePJbw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFhXvyHDf1B65J2aQ6LRTxCtik8sJHUNQte=Kqwx4T7ROxtL3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADEWdviZ9abb6821bVFas4cAeoYHh8x5WsCxEmCne-sGZQ60aA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAALSmCwXk+nCFhSKdtvncX3yT8ftroyBFMC-8v4f2URVYCaBuA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kiran,

The event went fine like Sunita stated earlier. Its a very nice idea that
you are thinking of considering childcare. That could work for the men too!
Men do have kids and can get their kids to the events also! It will be a
good thing to advertise if men needed dedicated childcare. The women on the
household will be grateful to you, for taking of their hands of the kids
for a day atleast!

I have been working on a blog post for the same and will let you know what
the learning from this hackathon has been!

Regards,
Annapoornima






On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Sunita Venkatachalam <
sunitav at thoughtworks.com> wrote:

> Hi Kiran,
> Svaksha couldn't make it. I asked around whether we wanted a nanny but the
> event was held on the eve of a long weekend (bad timing!) so women with
> families didn't RSVP. We hope to continue trying and see if it makes sense
> to have dedicated childcare. I know that I will need to use it, if no one
> else!
>
> Oh, and we had a turnout of 5 women and 1 man - despite the low numbers (11
> had RSVPed) we actually had a good learning. It was a cosy group and that
> worked very well for a first time meetup.
>
> Sunita
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:19 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda <jace at pobox.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Svaksha, how did the event go? Did you have a nanny? We've been
> considering
> > a dedicated childcare area at events, but don't have a sense of whether
> > there will be takers.
> >
> > Kiran
> >
> > --
> > Kiran Jonnalagadda
> > http://jace.zaiki.in/
> > http://hasgeek.com/
> >
> > (Sent from my phone)
> > On Oct 12, 2013 12:07 AM, "svaksha" <svaksha at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Prakhar Goel <prakhar at prakhargoel.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the invite. I would like to join the hackathon. Details-
> > > > i at prakhargoel.com, 9901817858.
> > >
> > > The RSVP is via meetup :
> > > http://www.meetup.com/PyladiesBangalore/events/143043842/
> > > HTH, ? svaksha ?
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > BangPypers mailing list
> > > BangPypers at python.org
> > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com  Fri Oct 18 14:28:05 2013
From: supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com (s|s)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 17:58:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4Pb5zF7=rGWqEcAZvJzFvARZweb0DHi=LraKKGUYvAfhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4Pb5zF7=rGWqEcAZvJzFvARZweb0DHi=LraKKGUYvAfhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFi9wfuxfU1AOVmpB-2f1fd10UXSUf7C7YCMNkhYnTZ8sqqSGA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM, s|s <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Pranav,
> >
> > I would pose a counter question regarding object oriented programming.
> How
> > did you learn OOP concepts? I am assuming like most of us, probably
> through
> > a C++ or Java course. These courses ingrain a certain expectation of what
> > OOP should "look like". Which to me seems to be a dis-service to
> > underpinnings of Object Oriented Paradigm itself.
>
> How so ?
>
>
To me, OO Paradigm is not about having a keyword **class** in a language
but the sense of constructing an ensemble of programmed units which makes
sense together. To illustrate, GObject in Gtk+ is as much a first rate OO
implementation as any other. In fact some of the new breed of languages
like Golang do not follow conventional structure of OOP popularized by C++
and Java.



> >
> > Python implements OOP differently from imperative languages of C family
> > like C++ and Java. The reason, I think is C++ and Java are very much
> driven
> > towards machine code efficiency whereas Python is very much about
> > developers productive.
>
> Can you cite an example ?
>
>
Lets look at integer as an example in Python (int)

class int(object)
   int(x[, base]) -> integer

which is unlike java where int is a "basic" non-class type. An explicit
upgrade to **Integer** class is required to use OOP features. This is done
with sole purpose of machine efficiency.



> >  To this end Python developers must have thought of
> > data hiding as not an important language goal.
>
> The traceability of the above "to this end" to "data hiding as not an
> important language goal" is very unclear. Could you clarify
>
>
Python, to me, seems to lean towards reducing development time. To "this
end" simple implementation is used instead of grand frameworks. Data hiding
with public, private, protected is just one of these frames. Yes again I am
critiquing Java.



> >
> > Mind you Python does allow data hiding through slots but it is not as
> > straight forward as C++ or Java.
> >
> > regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
> >> http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dhruv Baldawa
> >> (http://www.dhruvb.com)
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:58 PM, T S KAMATH <tsk.kamath at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dear Pranav,
> >> >
> >> > The following video would get you understand better
> >> > http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html check for Google I_O 2008 -
> >> > Painless Python Part 1 & 2
> >> >
> >> > Srikanth
> >> >
> >> > On 14-Oct-2013, at 10:16 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi fellow python lovers,
> >> >
> >> > I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that
> >> there
> >> > are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python
> classes
> >> > have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot
> >> different
> >> > from other programming languages?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > thank you, Pranav Raj
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > BangPypers mailing list
> >> > BangPypers at python.org
> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > BangPypers mailing list
> >> > BangPypers at python.org
> >> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> BangPypers mailing list
> >> BangPypers at python.org
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Supreet Sethi
> > Ph UK: +447859172473
> > Ph IN: +919811143517
> > Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n
> > Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi
> > Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn
> > _______________________________________________
> > BangPypers mailing list
> > BangPypers at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>
>
>
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
> http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
Supreet Sethi
Ph UK: +447859172473
Ph IN: +919811143517
Ph Skype: d_j_i_n_n
Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/supreet.sethi
Twt: http://twitter.com/djinn

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 04:39:45 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 08:09:45 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAFi9wfuxfU1AOVmpB-2f1fd10UXSUf7C7YCMNkhYnTZ8sqqSGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4Pb5zF7=rGWqEcAZvJzFvARZweb0DHi=LraKKGUYvAfhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wfuxfU1AOVmpB-2f1fd10UXSUf7C7YCMNkhYnTZ8sqqSGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4MBVSrKBBHq1ypj5oyfDmEB3iw-+B7e_7+nz47R2ukpYw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:58 PM, s|s <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:31 AM, Dhananjay Nene
> <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 4:44 PM, s|s <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Pranav,
>> >
>> > I would pose a counter question regarding object oriented programming.
>> How
>> > did you learn OOP concepts? I am assuming like most of us, probably
>> through
>> > a C++ or Java course. These courses ingrain a certain expectation of what
>> > OOP should "look like". Which to me seems to be a dis-service to
>> > underpinnings of Object Oriented Paradigm itself.
>>
>> How so ?
>>
>>
> To me, OO Paradigm is not about having a keyword **class** in a language
> but the sense of constructing an ensemble of programmed units which makes
> sense together. To illustrate, GObject in Gtk+ is as much a first rate OO
> implementation as any other. In fact some of the new breed of languages
> like Golang do not follow conventional structure of OOP popularized by C++
> and Java.

Not really sure what you mean by constructing an ensemble of
programmed units which makes sense together. In a lay reading that to
me is what module systems are for.

I haven't looked at GObject. So can't analyse the rest of what you
say. But an interesting definition for me always has been "OP to me
means only messaging, local retention and protection and hiding of
state-process, and extreme late-binding of all things." - Dr. Alan Kay
(http://userpage.fu-berlin.de/~ram/pub/pub_jf47ht81Ht/doc_kay_oop_en).
Some commentators believe open recursion is necessary (though I myself
haven't subscribed to that yet).

>> >
>> > Python implements OOP differently from imperative languages of C family
>> > like C++ and Java. The reason, I think is C++ and Java are very much
>> driven
>> > towards machine code efficiency whereas Python is very much about
>> > developers productive.
>>
>> Can you cite an example ?
>>
>>
> Lets look at integer as an example in Python (int)
>
> class int(object)
>    int(x[, base]) -> integer
>
> which is unlike java where int is a "basic" non-class type. An explicit
> upgrade to **Integer** class is required to use OOP features. This is done
> with sole purpose of machine efficiency.

Ahh, the primitives. But in most cases primitives have their OO
counterparts, so you can pick and choose. Fair enough. Java in the
late 1990s and early 2000s was very very very slow. A lot of it had to
do with how it used memory, the garbage collections the late binding
as compared to C++, the JVM etc. etc. It was later that the JVM got
well tuned enough for the performance it shows off now. I don't think
I would ever imagine java itself was "ever" designed towards machine
code efficiency .. though it did work out that way eventually.

>
>
>> >  To this end Python developers must have thought of
>> > data hiding as not an important language goal.
>>
>> The traceability of the above "to this end" to "data hiding as not an
>> important language goal" is very unclear. Could you clarify
>>
>>
> Python, to me, seems to lean towards reducing development time. To "this
> end" simple implementation is used instead of grand frameworks. Data hiding
> with public, private, protected is just one of these frames. Yes again I am
> critiquing Java.

Hmm ... there's boiler plate and there's frames of additional
capabilities. I think Java and C++ suffered from more boilerplate,
which was co-incidental. I can't imagine how just prefixing with a
public / private / ... reduces developer productivity - in fact by
promoting information hiding it can help hunt down bugs faster. And
modern languages like Scala don't require you to do getX / setX - they
can give you that capability - even switching from attributes to
functions and back with a simple change of a word. So, as yet I remain
unconvinced about the link between data hiding and developer
productivity.

>> > Mind you Python does allow data hiding through slots but it is not as
>> > straight forward as C++ or Java.

How so ?

class Foo(object):
    __slots__ = ["val"]
    def __init__(self, val) :
        self.val = val


f = Foo(5)
print(f.val)

Dhananjay
e

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 07:25:01 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:55:01 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 15, 2013 4:10 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> > Hi fellow python lovers,
> >
> > I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that
there are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python
classes have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot
different from other programming languages?
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/a/1641236/12754
>

Meh! Weak arguments, strongly made.

> I am not sure what the history or reasoning was. But encapsulation is not
considered particularly desirable or useful.
>

Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
digress.

> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite different.
You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc. if you
were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.

Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3 more
powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
borrowed them from; but that's just not true.) Trust me, I spent almost a
week trying to wrap my head around this before I figured out that Python
Metaclasses are just Class Decorators done differently (read- requiring you
to understand more of the internals without providing too much more
benefit.)

> Just start using the features and over a period of time you will gain a
> reasonable understanding of the subtleties.
> >
> >
> > thank you, Pranav Raj
> >

Pranav,
I'd suggest you keep an open mind and go with what the language/platform
provides you. Python is one of those 'get stuff done' kind of languages and
has a sweet spot, but OO isn't quite all in that spot. There is some
overlap, but it can be hard to find.

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 07:25:15 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:55:15 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 18, 2013 10:54 AM, "s|s" <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Pranav,
>
> I would pose a counter question regarding object oriented programming.
How did you learn OOP concepts? I am assuming like most of us, probably
through a C++ or Java course. These courses ingrain a certain expectation
of what OOP should "look like". Which to me seems to be a dis-service to
underpinnings of Object Oriented Paradigm itself.
>

I think it's a little unfair to club C++ and Java in the same bucket just
because one borrows some syntactic elements from the other in order to
maintain a smooth migration path.

> Python implements OOP differently from imperative languages of C family
like C++ and Java.

Umm... I don't know if anyone's told you yet, but Python is also
essentially an imperative programming language.

> The reason, I think is C++ and Java are very much driven towards machine
code efficiency whereas Python is very much about developers productive.

You couldn't be far from the truth. While, syntactically, Python is touted
to be more reader-friendly, that was also one of the design goals of Java.
Just because a bunch of people write bad Java code doesn't mean that the
language leans toward low-level optimizations; I've seen enough atrocious
Python code in my 2.5 years working with it that has obliterated any notion
of readability/productivity. And anyone suggesting LOC comparisons better
be prepared for some righteous Monty Pythonic Trout Slapping!

Also, comparing a dynamically typed language to two statically typed
languages is hardly fair. A comparison to other dynamically typed,
imperative languages like Groovy, Ruby or SmallTalk would be more useful;
all of which, BTW, provide primitives for the kind of encapsulation the OP
is looking for.

> To this end Python developers must have thought of data hiding as not an
important language goal.
>

That makes no sense. Implementing the notion of  encapsulation doesn't
particularly get in the way of developer productivity. If anything, it
enhances productivity by providing compiler/interpreter hints that
communicate when developers are engaging in undesirable resource access.

> Mind you Python does allow data hiding through slots but it is not as
straight forward as C++ or Java.
>

Sigh! Implementing a reasonably important feature in an obscure manner
(that too, not completely, since even slots are accessible from outside an
object) is not in keeping with friendliness. I say this feature is
reasonably important since it is repeatedly brought up every few months
with little to no satisfactory responses most of which is 'we are all
adults here', which I am hard pressed to accept as a generalization on
account of all the atrocious code mentioned above.

- d

From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Mon Oct 21 07:42:27 2013
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:12:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>
 (Saager Mhatre's message of "Mon, 21 Oct 2013 10:55:15 +0530")
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87r4bf5ge4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> Sigh! Implementing a reasonably important feature in an obscure manner
> (that too, not completely, since even slots are accessible from
> outside an object) is not in keeping with friendliness. I say this
> feature is reasonably important since it is repeatedly brought up
> every few months with little to no satisfactory responses most of
> which is 'we are all adults here', which I am hard pressed to accept
> as a generalization on account of all the atrocious code mentioned
> above.

__slots__ are not meant for data hiding. They're meant as a final
"trick" to save memory when you have a large number of objects of the
class you're interested in.

If you define a __slots__ variable, you lose the class dictionary (since
that consumes some amount of memory) but you get smaller objects. The
gory details are here
http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/9e322a8f80d9/Objects/typeobject.c

but here's what it looks like.

>>> class Foo(object): 
...   __slots__ = ['bar']
...   def __init__(self):
...     self.bar = "Hello"
...   def display(self):
...     print self.bar
... 
>>> 
>>> x = Foo()
>>> dir(x) # Uses slots. No __dict__
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__doc__', '__format__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__slots__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', 'bar', 'display']
>>>
>>> class Bar(object):
...   def __init__(self):
...     self.foo = "Hello"
...   def display(self):
...     print self.bar
... 
>>> y = Bar()
>>> dir(y) # No slots so you have the __dict__
['__class__', '__delattr__', '__dict__', '__doc__', '__format__', '__getattribute__', '__hash__', '__init__', '__module__', '__new__', '__reduce__', '__reduce_ex__', '__repr__', '__setattr__', '__sizeof__', '__str__', '__subclasshook__', '__weakref__', 'display', 'foo']
>>> 
>>> import sys
>>> sys.getsizeof(x)
56
>>> sys.getsizeof(y)
64

As for the rest of your points, I agree with some. I'm generally
gravitating towards statically typed languages of late so my comments
will be vague anyway. 

-- 
Cordially,
Noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 07:45:53 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:15:53 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAFi9wfuxfU1AOVmpB-2f1fd10UXSUf7C7YCMNkhYnTZ8sqqSGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4Pb5zF7=rGWqEcAZvJzFvARZweb0DHi=LraKKGUYvAfhw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wfuxfU1AOVmpB-2f1fd10UXSUf7C7YCMNkhYnTZ8sqqSGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCcw860AtN5nbxmFa8hgUfLRGxF6JfLC0OAAuTGEsaCbw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 1:18 AM, "s|s" <supr.e.etsethi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Lets look at integer as an example in Python (int)
>
> class int(object)
>    int(x[, base]) -> integer
>
> which is unlike java where int is a "basic" non-class type. An explicit
upgrade to **Integer** class is required to use OOP features. This is done
with sole purpose of machine efficiency.
>

Seriously, we're arguing primitive types here?!? I mean, I'll admit they're
a blemish, but (as Dhananjay mentioned) they're hardly there to improve
bytecode generation. They were put in to appease the (memory) bean counters
so that they could control the heap sizes of objects, at least in their
heads. That said, the Tiger release introduced autoboxing, which dealt with
this. The JVMs runtime performance magic lies elsewhere entirely. I'm
banging this mail out on a tablet over GPRS, otherwise I would've hunted
down a few references for you.

Honestly, I urge you to look at other OO languages like SmallTalk (where it
sort of all began), Ruby & Groovy, or even JavaScript for that matter. Just
like we don't want to be narrow about what comprises OO, we should also not
restrict our examples/experience of OO implementations to C++ & Java (aside
from Python*).

- d

* The OO implementation in which I find somewhat questionable, but I
digress... :)

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 07:56:22 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:26:22 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <87r4bf5ge4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r4bf5ge4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaA7E3P2CqCNj8idu=-7EMvH01WCSV11LcEc1wHN-rwyKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 11:14 AM, "Noufal Ibrahim" <noufal at nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
>
> Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> writes:
>
>
> [...]
>
> > since even slots are accessible from outside an object
>
> __slots__ are not meant for data hiding. They're meant as a final "trick"
to save memory when you have a large number of objects of the class you're
interested in.
>
> If you define a __slots__ variable, you lose the class dictionary (since
that consumes some amount of memory) but you get smaller objects. The gory
details are here
http://hg.python.org/cpython/file/9e322a8f80d9/Objects/typeobject.c
>
> [...]
>

Ah, that explains so much. I've always been confused about slots and the
documentation almost always added to it. Does this mean that once you drop
to slots, you also lose the descriptor- based dispatch magic? That would
make this a pretty desperate hack for some last resort memory conservation!

- d

From noufal at nibrahim.net.in  Mon Oct 21 08:02:17 2013
From: noufal at nibrahim.net.in (Noufal Ibrahim)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:32:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaA7E3P2CqCNj8idu=-7EMvH01WCSV11LcEc1wHN-rwyKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 (Saager Mhatre's message of "Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:26:22 +0530")
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r4bf5ge4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
 <CADfLaaA7E3P2CqCNj8idu=-7EMvH01WCSV11LcEc1wHN-rwyKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <87hacb5fh2.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>

Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> writes:


[...]

> Ah, that explains so much. I've always been confused about slots and
> the documentation almost always added to it. Does this mean that once
> you drop to slots, you also lose the descriptor- based dispatch magic?
> That would make this a pretty desperate hack for some last resort
> memory conservation!

I don't know if you lose descriptors. I've never really used __slots__
myself since I've not run into memory tight situations like the ones for
which __slots__ was made for. I have run Python on a usb webcam but I
don't do fancy OO there. I just use raw functions and things like the
array[1] and struct[2] modules to make sure that I have some handle on
how much memory I'm using.

I don't think it's particularly neat which is probably why, as you
mentioned in your original email, it's obscure. It's the final frontier
beyond which space lies (sorry).


Footnotes: 
[1]  http://docs.python.org/2/library/array.html
[2]  http://docs.python.org/2/library/struct.html

-- 
Cordially,
Noufal
http://nibrahim.net.in

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 08:08:32 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:38:32 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <87hacb5fh2.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAFi9wft7-iRHNWyejy4jN15QTwK_PfdpvGEowTq+dNSu15PuLA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaC-TruZ9hzBAfjQpG6K3QBsDfhBxrk-xktxqC9_jK+=bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <87r4bf5ge4.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
 <CADfLaaA7E3P2CqCNj8idu=-7EMvH01WCSV11LcEc1wHN-rwyKQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <87hacb5fh2.fsf@sanitarium.localdomain>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCf02GFEjBbQXupqHMPSFkXJudrL1fmd1qGRzf3mbzPXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 11:34 AM, "Noufal Ibrahim" <noufal at nibrahim.net.in> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> It's the final frontier beyond which space lies (sorry).
>

Dude, Space __is__ the final frontier! (Heh, see what I did there? :)

Anyway, thanks for the other refs.

- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 08:09:12 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:39:12 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 15, 2013 4:10 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > Hi fellow python lovers,
>> >
>> > I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that
> there are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python
> classes have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot
> different from other programming languages?
>>
>> http://stackoverflow.com/a/1641236/12754
>>
>
> Meh! Weak arguments, strongly made.
>
>> I am not sure what the history or reasoning was. But encapsulation is not
> considered particularly desirable or useful.
>>
>
> Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
> digress.

Leaky ??  :)
>
>> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite different.
> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc. if you
> were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
>
> Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3 more
> powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
> borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)

I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much
about smalltalk) allow things that python does not.

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 08:23:47 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 11:53:47 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
digress.
>
> Leaky ??  :)

For the most part, yes.

> >
> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite different.
> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc.
if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
> >
> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3 more
powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
>
> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much about
smalltalk) allow things that python does not.

Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
languages. They form the core of the MetaObjectProtocol which governs the
dynamic dispatch of messages/methods. Modifications to MetaClasses
percolate to Classes and objects they are associated with and such
modifications as well as MetaClass associations can be dynamic as well as
temporary; leading to some seriously powerful use cases.

That's pretty much what always foiled my attempts at understanding Python
MetaClasses, I was looking for power where there was none to find. The best
comparison I could find was to Groovy's Compile time AST transforms, but
even those are even more powerful as they drop down a level of abstraction
and hand you the AST for the an rated element.

- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 08:39:08 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 12:09:08 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
> digress.
>>
>> Leaky ??  :)
>
> For the most part, yes.
>
>> >
>> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite different.
>> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc.
> if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
>> >
>> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3 more
> powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
> borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
>>
>> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
> learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much about
> smalltalk) allow things that python does not.
>
> Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
> languages.

I'm specifically looking for evidence to support that. And I suspect
it might be out there to be found , just that I haven't so far. One of
my early attempts was documented here
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2010/01/dynamically-adding-methods-with-metaprogramming-ruby-and-python/

> They form the core of the MetaObjectProtocol which governs the
> dynamic dispatch of messages/methods. Modifications to MetaClasses
> percolate to Classes and objects they are associated with and such
> modifications as well as MetaClass associations can be dynamic as well as
> temporary; leading to some seriously powerful use cases.

The "temporary" is intriguing. I don't quite yet understand what it
means .. does it mean you could say temporarily add a method and then
take it out later (or some other similar capability) ?
>
> That's pretty much what always foiled my attempts at understanding Python
> MetaClasses, I was looking for power where there was none to find. The best
> comparison I could find was to Groovy's Compile time AST transforms, but
> even those are even more powerful as they drop down a level of abstraction
> and hand you the AST for the an rated element.

AST transforms are sort of feasible but rarely done, and not sure if I
would like to be a part of such an exercise. They kick in via the
import hook, thus you build the AST on your own, thankfully python
does provide AST helpers. Googling for python macros will show some
such valiant attempts - https://github.com/lihaoyi/macropy or
https://code.google.com/p/metapython/wiki/Tutorial

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 11:32:27 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:02:27 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 12:09 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <
saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
> > digress.
> >>
> >> Leaky ??  :)
> >
> > For the most part, yes.
> >
> >> >
> >> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite
different.
> >> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc.
> > if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
> >> >
> >> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3
more
> > powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
> > borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
> >>
> >> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
> > learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much
about
> > smalltalk) allow things that python does not.
> >
> > Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
> > languages.
>
> I'm specifically looking for evidence to support that. And I suspect
> it might be out there to be found , just that I haven't so far. One of
> my early attempts was documented here
>
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2010/01/dynamically-adding-methods-with-metaprogramming-ruby-and-python/
>

Don't look for metaprogramming, you'll end up with a lot of ancillary
stuff. Look for metaclasses or metaobject protocol.

> > They form the core of the MetaObjectProtocol which governs the
> > dynamic dispatch of messages/methods. Modifications to MetaClasses
> > percolate to Classes and objects they are associated with and such
> > modifications as well as MetaClass associations can be dynamic as well
as
> > temporary; leading to some seriously powerful use cases.
>
> The "temporary" is intriguing. I don't quite yet understand what it
> means .. does it mean you could say temporarily add a method and then
> take it out later (or some other similar capability) ?

Yup! Look for Categories. The Groovy guides have a bunch of examples.
(Nothing to do with category theory AFAIK)

> >
> > That's pretty much what always foiled my attempts at understanding
Python
> > MetaClasses, I was looking for power where there was none to find. The
best
> > comparison I could find was to Groovy's Compile time AST transforms, but
> > even those are even more powerful as they drop down a level of
abstraction
> > and hand you the AST for the an rated element.
>
> AST transforms are sort of feasible but rarely done, and not sure if I
> would like to be a part of such an exercise. They kick in via the
> import hook, thus you build the AST on your own, thankfully python
> does provide AST helpers. Googling for python macros will show some
> such valiant attempts - https://github.com/lihaoyi/macropy or
> https://code.google.com/p/metapython/wiki/Tutorial

While I haven't implemented any yet, Groovy's AST transforms make
implementation as well as application fairly easy.

But, that wasn't my point. What I meant was that Python's meta classes only
kick in at module/lass load time whereas Metaclasses in the other languages
play a greater role at runtime.

- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 11:51:37 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:21:37 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2013 12:09 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <
> saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions; but I
>> > digress.
>> >>
>> >> Leaky ??  :)
>> >
>> > For the most part, yes.
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite
> different.
>> >> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses etc.
>> > if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
>> >> >
>> >> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3
> more
>> > powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
>> > borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
>> >>
>> >> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
>> > learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much
> about
>> > smalltalk) allow things that python does not.
>> >
>> > Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
>> > languages.
>>
>> I'm specifically looking for evidence to support that. And I suspect
>> it might be out there to be found , just that I haven't so far. One of
>> my early attempts was documented here
>>
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2010/01/dynamically-adding-methods-with-metaprogramming-ruby-and-python/
>>
>
> Don't look for metaprogramming, you'll end up with a lot of ancillary
> stuff. Look for metaclasses or metaobject protocol.

Is there an example or two which demonstrates ruby can do things via
metaprogramming / metaclasses / metaobject protocol that python cannot
? Something more than syntactic or stylistic differences.

It wouldn't be normally fair for me to ask for that and I should go
hunt it down myself, but given the earlier assertions made in this
thread, i believe it is reasonable in this case.

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 15:12:33 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 18:42:33 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 21, 2013 3:21 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
wrote:
> > On Oct 21, 2013 12:09 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre <
saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> > On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <
> > saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions;
but I
> >> > digress.
> >> >>
> >> >> Leaky ??  :)
> >> >
> >> > For the most part, yes.
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite
> > different.
> >> >> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses
etc.
> >> > if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3
> > more
> >> > powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
> >> > borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
> >> >>
> >> >> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
> >> > learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much
> > about
> >> > smalltalk) allow things that python does not.
> >> >
> >> > Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
> >> > languages.
> >>
> >> I'm specifically looking for evidence to support that. And I suspect
> >> it might be out there to be found , just that I haven't so far. One of
> >> my early attempts was documented here
> >>
> >
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2010/01/dynamically-adding-methods-with-metaprogramming-ruby-and-python/
> >>
> >
> > Don't look for metaprogramming, you'll end up with a lot of ancillary
> > stuff. Look for metaclasses or metaobject protocol.
>
> Is there an example or two which demonstrates ruby can do things via
> metaprogramming / metaclasses / metaobject protocol that python cannot
> ? Something more than syntactic or stylistic differences.
>
> It wouldn't be normally fair for me to ask for that and I should go
> hunt it down myself, but given the earlier assertions made in this
> thread, i believe it is reasonable in this case.

Sorry, on GPRS, so hunting for videos will kill my phone & tablet. Add
'Yehuda Katz' or 'wykatz' in your queries; methinks he's done a bunch of
talks about this. There was also one from the RuPy conference, but I don't
remember if it dealt with metaprogramming per se. But you should be able to
find some videos. That said, it might be hard to find comparisons as the
Ruby folk usually just outright ignore Python, the Groovy folk are too busy
embettering Groovy and the SmallTalk folk are in a cave somewhere that I
know not of!

Also, just to clarify, metaprogramming is distinct from metaclasses and
presence of one in a platform is not essential to the presence of the
other. Metaprogramming is more to do with code that writes, unwrites or
modifies more code; while metaclasses are about some seriously dynamic
dispatch.

Incidentally, that is another place Python's implementation departs from
metaclasses in other languages. Where Python provides metaclasses as a hook
to rewrite class internals/implementation before it becomes available to
other code, other platforms attach metaclasses to classes (or objects, in
some cases) at runtime to control/alter the way messages to/methods of the
class (or object) are dispatched. Python conflates metaprogramming into
metaclasses where it is not a necessity, in that Python metaclasses can do
little more of value than add/remove/modify attributes of the class; in
other words, metaprogram elements of class definition.

Man, I should start a list of misnamed concepts in Python! Hey, there's my
talk for the next PyCon- Python, the misnamed bits! :D

That said, I've been meaning to do a decent talk on metaprogramming and
wanted to do a first round at PythonPune. Maybe if thinrhino bugs me about
it enough, I might just... :)

- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 15:41:47 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 19:11:47 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4OdBZSa_SubXKu_G1nToa2YjnDnuyYoR6TBNctzo8s3tg@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:42 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2013 3:21 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> > On Oct 21, 2013 12:09 PM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre <
> saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> > On Oct 21, 2013 11:39 AM, "Dhananjay Nene" <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Saager Mhatre <
>> > saager.mhatre at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Which generally lead to poor (or at least poorer) abstractions;
> but I
>> >> > digress.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Leaky ??  :)
>> >> >
>> >> > For the most part, yes.
>> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I think OOPs concepts across a number of languages are quite
>> > different.
>> >> >> >> You will find python having superior constructs eg. metaclasses
> etc.
>> >> > if you were comparing Python OOP to C++/Java.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Superior constructs implemented inferiorly. Meteclasses are much^3
>> > more
>> >> > powerful in Groovy, Ruby and SmallTalk (where some would claim Python
>> >> > borrowed them from; but that's just not true.)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I wonder if you meant syntactically/stylistically. Would be keen to
>> >> > learn, if there are examples where ruby / groovy (I don't know much
>> > about
>> >> > smalltalk) allow things that python does not.
>> >> >
>> >> > Semantically! MetaClasses are a much more powerful construct in those
>> >> > languages.
>> >>
>> >> I'm specifically looking for evidence to support that. And I suspect
>> >> it might be out there to be found , just that I haven't so far. One of
>> >> my early attempts was documented here
>> >>
>> >
> http://blog.dhananjaynene.com/2010/01/dynamically-adding-methods-with-metaprogramming-ruby-and-python/
>> >>
>> >
>> > Don't look for metaprogramming, you'll end up with a lot of ancillary
>> > stuff. Look for metaclasses or metaobject protocol.
>>
>> Is there an example or two which demonstrates ruby can do things via
>> metaprogramming / metaclasses / metaobject protocol that python cannot
>> ? Something more than syntactic or stylistic differences.
>>
>> It wouldn't be normally fair for me to ask for that and I should go
>> hunt it down myself, but given the earlier assertions made in this
>> thread, i believe it is reasonable in this case.
>
> Sorry, on GPRS, so hunting for videos will kill my phone & tablet. Add
> 'Yehuda Katz' or 'wykatz' in your queries; methinks he's done a bunch of
> talks about this. There was also one from the RuPy conference, but I don't
> remember if it dealt with metaprogramming per se. But you should be able to
> find some videos. That said, it might be hard to find comparisons as the
> Ruby folk usually just outright ignore Python, the Groovy folk are too busy
> embettering Groovy and the SmallTalk folk are in a cave somewhere that I
> know not of!

Still doesn't help me. Since you suggested that "Superior constructs
implemented inferiorly." and did not respond to the line which
wondered if that was based on syntactic or stylistic differences, I
presumed that comment was based on one or two examples of scenarios
that you had run into where you found python metaprogramming /
metaclasses constraining in some particular way. Anyways it seems
there aren't any such examples I can elicit from a continuing
discussion.
>
> Also, just to clarify, metaprogramming is distinct from metaclasses and
> presence of one in a platform is not essential to the presence of the
> other. Metaprogramming is more to do with code that writes, unwrites or
> modifies more code; while metaclasses are about some seriously dynamic
> dispatch.
>
> Incidentally, that is another place Python's implementation departs from
> metaclasses in other languages. Where Python provides metaclasses as a hook
> to rewrite class internals/implementation before it becomes available to
> other code, other platforms attach metaclasses to classes (or objects, in
> some cases) at runtime to control/alter the way messages to/methods of the
> class (or object) are dispatched. Python conflates metaprogramming into
> metaclasses where it is not a necessity, in that Python metaclasses can do
> little more of value than add/remove/modify attributes of the class; in
> other words, metaprogram elements of class definition.

Sure python does do a lot of things differently. But the question I am
interested in an answer to is does it empower the user to do /
constrain the user from doing certain things as compared to similar
languages, distribution of functionality within meta* terms
notwithstanding.
>
> Man, I should start a list of misnamed concepts in Python! Hey, there's my
> talk for the next PyCon- Python, the misnamed bits! :D
>
> That said, I've been meaning to do a decent talk on metaprogramming and
> wanted to do a first round at PythonPune. Maybe if thinrhino bugs me about
> it enough, I might just... :)
>
Maybe if thinrhino doesn't bug you about it you still should :)

> - d
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers



-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: @dnene google plus:
http://gplus.to/dhananjaynene

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 20:10:17 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:40:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4OdBZSa_SubXKu_G1nToa2YjnDnuyYoR6TBNctzo8s3tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OdBZSa_SubXKu_G1nToa2YjnDnuyYoR6TBNctzo8s3tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCJgXS5OqgE6Oh9dSWVKmkhGfL3EqWVhMp+7gAcTb0Xig@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> Since you suggested that "Superior constructs
> implemented inferiorly." and did not respond to the line which
> wondered if that was based on syntactic or stylistic differences,


I believe I responded to that statement by saying that the difference I
note is neither syntactic, nor stylistic; it is semantic in that
metaclasses behave very differently in other platforms by interacting with
objects at run-time as opposed to just at compile-time. That simple
difference makes them significantly more powerful to me.


> I presumed that comment was based on one or two examples of scenarios
> that you had run into where you found python metaprogramming /
> metaclasses constraining in some particular way. Anyways it seems
> there aren't any such examples I can elicit from a continuing
> discussion.
>

Again, if we re-read the conversation so far (and I just did), I have been
avoiding a discussion on metaprogramming as that has little to do with
metaclasses in all the other platforms I mentioned. AFAICT, only Python
conflates these two[*], YMMV. Any examples of metaprogramming in
Ruby/Groovy I provide will provide no value in demonstrating the
capabilities of metaclasses therein.

As for metaclasses, I find Python's implementation constraining
specifically for the point I mentioned above in this very note. For a
whirlwind tour of what Groovy's MetaClass has to offer try the Dynamic
Groovy <http://groovy.codehaus.org/Dynamic+Groovy> section of the Groovy
User Guide <http://groovy.codehaus.org/User+Guide>. I could give you more
contrived examples, but that would only lead to a pissing match where you
show me how X can be achieved in Python with P + Q - R. But, to really get
a hang of these features I'll give you the same advice that several
pythonistas (including yourself) gave me when I started with it and found
things out of place- give Ruby/Groovy a shot, take them out for a spin
(preferably a long drive) and then you'll discover the benefits.

My grievance with Python's metaprogramming capabilities is another matter
altogether and warrants a different thread. But, just because you mentioned
it, I''ll put it down in one line- I don't find Python's metaprogramming
inadequate, it's all there; it's just that the capability is (both
syntactically and semantically) cumbersome at best and clumsy at worst.


> >
> > Also, just to clarify, metaprogramming is distinct from metaclasses and
> > presence of one in a platform is not essential to the presence of the
> > other. Metaprogramming is more to do with code that writes, unwrites or
> > modifies more code; while metaclasses are about some seriously dynamic
> > dispatch.
> >
> > Incidentally, that is another place Python's implementation departs from
> > metaclasses in other languages. Where Python provides metaclasses as a
> hook
> > to rewrite class internals/implementation before it becomes available to
> > other code, other platforms attach metaclasses to classes (or objects, in
> > some cases) at runtime to control/alter the way messages to/methods of
> the
> > class (or object) are dispatched. Python conflates metaprogramming into
> > metaclasses where it is not a necessity, in that Python metaclasses can
> do
> > little more of value than add/remove/modify attributes of the class; in
> > other words, metaprogram elements of class definition.
>
> Sure python does do a lot of things differently. But the question I am
> interested in an answer to is does it empower the user to do /
> constrain the user from doing certain things as compared to similar
> languages, distribution of functionality within meta* terms
> notwithstanding.


To reiterate, yes, I believe Python's metaclasses (differently implemented
as they are) are constraining specifically for the point I mentioned above
in this very note. Python's metaclasses do not allow for the modification
of the behaviour of a class/object at runtime. The way I see it, the best
they do is extract boilerplate code from class definitions. I can get that
with class decorators and avoid all the confusion about how Python does
metaclasses differently as well as how metaclasses wire into the type
system. To me, Python's metaclasses provide too little value for the
cognitive load they add, YMMV.

- d

* They really should've stuck to Class Decorators and avoided the
confusion, or did those come after metaclasses?

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 20:16:16 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:46:16 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4NN05a7YLzEt=hG05A4KHmQHgf6P=u5erbuTOY7d8RihA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NN05a7YLzEt=hG05A4KHmQHgf6P=u5erbuTOY7d8RihA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCVMDDy=kwb7Hk7Orb+Fwan6Xj6C1HB4CEeAiKS4pg3KA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Dhananjay Nene
<dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
> > http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger
>
> I have some serious reservations on how OO is packaged here. Wanted to
> post a detailed and articulate opinion, but it is going to take a
> while since I am not getting the time to do so, but will get there
> eventually. In the meanwhile I do want to offer an as yet
> unsubstantiated opinion that some of these are not necessarily the
> best references on the topic.
>

Dammit, had meant to reply to this one earlier, but got completely
side-tracked by our metaclasses discusison.

I got a similar vibe when I sat through Raymond's talks at PyCon India
2011. A TWer friend and I were watching the talks together and our WTF
counters turned quite a bit and usually at the same time.

Like Dhananjay said, any response is going to have to be pretty detailed
and I'm too tired and sleep now. :|

- d

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 20:18:14 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 23:48:14 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaCGsqgf0JKLiLN4LtRYmNDO+VPJbTS6oF9bN8vq=OiTkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 1:46 AM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi fellow python lovers,
>
> I wanted to do OOPS programming in python, but i just found out that there
> are no private variables in python. Does anyone know why python classes
> have no private variables and why python's OOPS concept are a lot different
> from other programming languages?


Pranav, dude, really sorry man, but I don't know if we answered your
question! We seem to have gone off on a somewhat different direction on
this thread.

Feel free to jump in and refocus if you deem necessary.

Apologies again. :P
- d

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Mon Oct 21 21:04:56 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 00:34:56 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaCVMDDy=kwb7Hk7Orb+Fwan6Xj6C1HB4CEeAiKS4pg3KA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <A0C957ED-02B9-4132-8533-35BFB20AD224@gmail.com>
 <CAC5Hnjizf0U519T4=CpRv7mNoQOo_-DhkL+XH6c=jzzmgR7c0Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4NN05a7YLzEt=hG05A4KHmQHgf6P=u5erbuTOY7d8RihA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCVMDDy=kwb7Hk7Orb+Fwan6Xj6C1HB4CEeAiKS4pg3KA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4Ppv_-UvbJXegQ1=USM04nqiTXYFHrYsz7dn2fdf2c1TA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:46 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Dhananjay Nene
> <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Dhruv Baldawa <dhruvbaldawa at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Also take a look at videos by Raymond Hettinger
>> > http://pyvideo.org/speaker/138/raymond-hettinger
>>
>> I have some serious reservations on how OO is packaged here. Wanted to
>> post a detailed and articulate opinion, but it is going to take a
>> while since I am not getting the time to do so, but will get there
>> eventually. In the meanwhile I do want to offer an as yet
>> unsubstantiated opinion that some of these are not necessarily the
>> best references on the topic.
>>
>
> Dammit, had meant to reply to this one earlier, but got completely
> side-tracked by our metaclasses discusison.
>
> I got a similar vibe when I sat through Raymond's talks at PyCon India
> 2011. A TWer friend and I were watching the talks together and our WTF
> counters turned quite a bit and usually at the same time.
>
> Like Dhananjay said, any response is going to have to be pretty detailed
> and I'm too tired and sleep now. :|

Since I had earlier stated that I would be responding on this thread,
should state that I did write out a response. Turned out to be a long
and detailed response. Given the tone of what I wrote, I decided to
not post it here (did mail it raymond though).

Dhananjay

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue Oct 22 07:16:55 2013
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 10:46:55 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52660A47.5070903@sirtaj.net>


On 10/21/2013 11:53 AM, Saager Mhatre wrote:
[snip]
> That's pretty much what always foiled my attempts at understanding Python
> MetaClasses, I was looking for power where there was none to find. The best
> comparison I could find was to Groovy's Compile time AST transforms, but
> even those are even more powerful as they drop down a level of abstraction
> and hand you the AST for the an rated element.

I agree with you partially - MOP in python can get ugly, but there's 
plenty of power there. I'll try to explain, though this stuff is 
notoriously hard to articulate (may be just for me).

So the main role of metaprogramming was to expose the language's object 
system as an object model to the programmer, so that it could be queried 
and manipulated at runtime. Does python do this? Yes, but not quite in 
the way that Kiczales outlined.

Instead we get some rough-and-ready tools with which you can simulate 
the effects that a "proper" MOP system (such as in CLOS) might have, and 
when having to make a choice between flexibility vs performance and code 
clarity, python's designers have almost invariably chosen the latter.

To begin with, there is a level of metacircularity in the new-style type 
system:

 >>> isinstance(object, object)
True
 >>> isinstance(type, type)
True
 >>> isinstance(object, type)
True
 >>> isinstance(type, object)
True

This is what the metaclass system uses. With old-style classes, you had 
a lot of flexibility to change the class of objects at runtime. Nowadays 
there are a lot more restrictions, mostly due to performance, but you 
can still do some silly stuff:

 >>> MyType = type('MyType', (type,), {})
 >>> MyCircularType = MyType('MyCircularType', (MyType,), {})
 >>> MyCircularType.__class__ = MyCircularType
 >>> isinstance(MyCircularType, MyCircularType)
True

And then of course there's things like get/setattribute - combined with 
the abc module in the standard library, the type trickery above and 
python's basic metaclass system, you could effectively create your own 
metacircular MOP protocol on top of python.*

Another major issue is that python's syntax makes it just not a great 
language for embedded DSLs and MOP, even to the extent that other 
dynamic languages (Ruby!) are. That's not going to change though, and 
I'm personally okay with it for the most part. If I wanted to program 
CLOS, I'd program CLOS.

-Taj.

* In fact, I spent quite a while doing so a few years ago - implementing 
the OMG MOF on python - and it worked pretty well, but it proved 
difficult to get it to the point where I could even properly explain it 
to people.

From saager.mhatre at gmail.com  Tue Oct 22 09:40:30 2013
From: saager.mhatre at gmail.com (Saager Mhatre)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 13:10:30 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <52660A47.5070903@sirtaj.net>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52660A47.5070903@sirtaj.net>
Message-ID: <CADfLaaD7b6iN3b9Cf3TLFjzrd7Rk8=ufPrhdaw5QCjTqb7+j-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Oct 22, 2013 10:54 AM, "Sirtaj Singh Kang" <sirtaj at sirtaj.net> wrote:
>
> I agree with you partially - MOP in python can get ugly, but there's
plenty of power there. I'll try to explain, though this stuff is
notoriously hard to articulate (may be just for me).
>

Oh, trust me, it's not just you! We should start a club, I'm sure we'll
find plenty of members. :)

>
> So the main role of metaprogramming was to expose the language's object
system as an object model to the programmer, so that it could be queried
and manipulated at runtime. Does python do this? Yes, but not quite in the
way that Kiczales outlined.
>

Like I said, the reflective metaprogramming nuts and bolts are all there;
it's just that Python expects you to pick up a spanner and put all of them
together every time. No thank you.

BTW, thanks for the Kiczales reference. Added to my reading list.

> Instead we get some rough-and-ready tools with which you can simulate the
effects that a "proper" MOP system (such as in CLOS) might have, and when
having to make a choice between flexibility vs performance and code
clarity, python's designers have almost invariably chosen the latter.
>

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that last point. I
don't find the MOP implementation in Ruby or Groovy less per for many or
leading to obscure code. On the contrary, I find Python's 'rough-and-ready
tools' make for more confusing metaprogramming code. YMMV

>
> To begin with, there is a level of metacircularity in the new-style type
system:
>
> >>> isinstance(object, object)
> True
> >>> isinstance(type, type)
> True
> >>> isinstance(object, type)
> True
> >>> isinstance(type, object)
> True
>

I think the metacircularity is almost in avoidable if reflective
metaprogramming is a goal. I don't mind it much now that I understand it.

>
> This is what the metaclass system uses. With old-style classes, you had a
lot of flexibility to change the class of objects at runtime. Nowadays
there are a lot more restrictions, mostly due to performance, but you can
still do some silly stuff:
>
> >>> MyType = type('MyType', (type,), {})
> >>> MyCircularType = MyType('MyCircularType', (MyType,), {})
> >>> MyCircularType.__class__ = MyCircularType
> >>> isinstance(MyCircularType, MyCircularType)
> True
>

Ah yes, old-style classes! But I'd be hard pressed to call that MOP as
there are no real metaobjects at play. It's just classes and instances
where instances could have their class swapped out from under them (yikes!)

That's a fun example, though. :)

>
> And then of course there's things like get/setattribute - combined with
the abc module in the standard library, the type trickery above and
python's basic metaclass system, you could effectively create your own
metacircular MOP protocol on top of python.*
>

Yeah, Python's fundamental unit being the function causes me some cognitive
dissonance when a lot of the OO utilities (like get/setattr) work
outside-in while others (like the dunder methods) work inside-out. As for
the abc module, the documentation was involved enough to turn me off that
part of the toolkit. But that's another discussion altogether.

Also, you could create/simulate MOP using the tools Python provides you,
but I'd much rather the platform give me a consistent implementation than
have to deal with N people each implementing their own special variant of
what they think MOP should be.

>
> Another major issue is that python's syntax makes it just not a great
language for embedded DSLs and MOP, even to the extent that other dynamic
languages (Ruby!) are. That's not going to change though, and I'm
personally okay with it for the most part. If I wanted to program CLOS, I'd
program CLOS.
>

Agreed on the bit about syntax; never delved into CLOS, so I'll stay away
from that bit.

Like I said, I believe Python has a sweet spot and I'm OK using it for
that. It's just that some of these features don't figure in that spot IMHO.

>
> * In fact, I spent quite a while doing so a few years ago - implementing
the OMG MOF on python - and it worked pretty well, but it proved difficult
to get it to the point where I could even properly explain it to people.
>

You did... what!?! :O
I'm not sure whether that deserves respect or sympathy! :D

- d

From sirtaj at sirtaj.net  Tue Oct 22 10:34:48 2013
From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 14:04:48 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaD7b6iN3b9Cf3TLFjzrd7Rk8=ufPrhdaw5QCjTqb7+j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <52660A47.5070903@sirtaj.net>
 <CADfLaaD7b6iN3b9Cf3TLFjzrd7Rk8=ufPrhdaw5QCjTqb7+j-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <526638A8.1020401@sirtaj.net>

On 10/22/2013 1:10 PM, Saager Mhatre wrote:
[snip]
> I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that last point. I
> don't find the MOP implementation in Ruby or Groovy less per for many or
> leading to obscure code. On the contrary, I find Python's 'rough-and-ready
> tools' make for more confusing metaprogramming code. YMMV

Right, what I meant was "clarity on behalf of code that most people 
write", not necessarily metaprogramming code. As in optimizing for the 
common case.

> Ah yes, old-style classes! But I'd be hard pressed to call that MOP as
> there are no real metaobjects at play.

Not really true. Using the lingo of the OMG/MDA world[1]: After the 
replacement, "MyCircularClass" is an instance of itself and therefore 
exists on both M3 (metametamodel) and M2 (metamodel) levels. A new 
instance of MyCircularClass (without class change hijinks) exists at M1 
(model) level, like a "normal" class instance. What we've gained is a 
relatively pure (meta-)class hierarchy to work with, along with the 
ability to customize behaviour at all levels using standard python class 
and metaclass facilities (__metaclass__, get/setattr, abc). It is more 
than enough to build a quite functional purely runtime MOP system.


> Also, you could create/simulate MOP using the tools Python provides you,
> but I'd much rather the platform give me a consistent implementation than
> have to deal with N people each implementing their own special variant of
> what they think MOP should be.

Agreed. All I'm saying is that that stuff usually comes at a cost to 
"normal" code. In Common Lisp/CLOS for example, it means that you have 
to have the most sparse concrete syntax possible so that any change to 
the object model continues to be natural in use.

Not that python couldn't be _better_ at it, but I wouldn't know how to 
do it personally.

-Taj.

[1] This is a reasonable introduction to the OMG-focused philosophy and 
terminology of MOP (PDF link):
http://scg.unibe.ch/download/mm/Slides/01Intro.ppt.pdf

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Oct 22 12:21:53 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 15:51:53 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CADfLaaCJgXS5OqgE6Oh9dSWVKmkhGfL3EqWVhMp+7gAcTb0Xig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OdBZSa_SubXKu_G1nToa2YjnDnuyYoR6TBNctzo8s3tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCJgXS5OqgE6Oh9dSWVKmkhGfL3EqWVhMp+7gAcTb0Xig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4MKH3tY6n3JgbdHwr5ew6yvFBapxf9Md8XmYuYhQt-uXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 11:40 PM, Saager Mhatre <saager.mhatre at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Dhananjay Nene <dhananjay.nene at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Since you suggested that "Superior constructs
>> implemented inferiorly." and did not respond to the line which
>> wondered if that was based on syntactic or stylistic differences,
>
>
> I believe I responded to that statement by saying that the difference I
> note is neither syntactic, nor stylistic; it is semantic in that
> metaclasses behave very differently in other platforms by interacting with
> objects at run-time as opposed to just at compile-time. That simple
> difference makes them significantly more powerful to me.

I don't understand the distinction you make between compile time and runtime.

Here's one example
class FooMeta(type):
    def __new__(cls, name, bases, classdict):
        print("I just constructed a {}".format(cls))
        if(getattr(FooMeta,"fubar",None)) :
            classdict["rockband"] = "zeezeetop"
        else:
            classdict["rockband"] = "men at work"
        result = type.__new__(cls, name, bases, dict(classdict))
        return result

class Foo(metaclass=FooMeta):
    def __init__(self,val):
        self.val = val
    def __str__(self):
        return "Foo({})".format(self.val)

f = Foo(5)
print(f)
print(f.rockband)
print(type(f))
print(type(type(f)))


def bar(self) :
    print(self.val)

def buz(self):
    print("Darn, I'm buzzed now")

Foo.bar = bar
Foo.class_level_constant = 99
FooMeta.fubar = 987
FooMeta.buz = buz
f.bar()

print(f.class_level_constant)
print(type(f).fubar)
print(type(f).buz())
try :
    print(f.fubar)
except Exception as e :
    print("Ignoring an exception {}".format(e))

f2 = Foo(9)
print(f2)
print(f2.rockband)

class Bar(metaclass=FooMeta):
    def __init__(self,val):
        self.val = val
    def __str__(self):
        return "Bar({})".format(self.val)

bar = Bar(23)
print(bar)
print(bar.rockband)

I added both a method and a attribute to a class at runtime and was
able to use it via the instance. Let me stress once again - this was
not compile time, this was runtime.

Again when you suggest semantic differences, it is very unclear what
you are specifically referring to.

To be clear in the above scenario, the type of "f" is "Foo", and any
modifcations to "Foo" percolate down to f as appropriate. There is a
fair degree of capabilities one has in being able to modify Foo at
runtime.

Are you getting confused between Foo and FooMeta ? FooMeta is really
the factory for Foo. To restate, the object is "f", the class is
"Foo", Foo is also an object whose class is FooMeta.

Note, I was not only able to add a attribute to Foo, I was also able
to do it to FooMeta

I was not just able to add an attribute to FooMeta, I was also able to
influence how it constructs classes next time a new one is declared
(eg. when Bar gets declared, fubar has been set, so the rockband
attribute gets set to "zeezeetop")

So frankly, when you say python does stuff at compile time, I don't
get it. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that the __new__ of the
metaclass gets called whenever a class is declared ? Maybe. But it is
hardly compile time.
>
>> I presumed that comment was based on one or two examples of scenarios
>> that you had run into where you found python metaprogramming /
>> metaclasses constraining in some particular way. Anyways it seems
>> there aren't any such examples I can elicit from a continuing
>> discussion.
>>
>
> Again, if we re-read the conversation so far (and I just did), I have been
> avoiding a discussion on metaprogramming as that has little to do with
> metaclasses in all the other platforms I mentioned. AFAICT, only Python
> conflates these two[*], YMMV. Any examples of metaprogramming in
> Ruby/Groovy I provide will provide no value in demonstrating the
> capabilities of metaclasses therein.

> As for metaclasses, I find Python's implementation constraining
> specifically for the point I mentioned above in this very note. For a
> whirlwind tour of what Groovy's MetaClass has to offer try the Dynamic
> Groovy <http://groovy.codehaus.org/Dynamic+Groovy> section of the Groovy
> User Guide <http://groovy.codehaus.org/User+Guide>. I could give you more
> contrived examples, but that would only lead to a pissing match where you
> show me how X can be achieved in Python with P + Q - R. But, to really get
> a hang of these features I'll give you the same advice that several
> pythonistas (including yourself) gave me when I started with it and found
> things out of place- give Ruby/Groovy a shot, take them out for a spin
> (preferably a long drive) and then you'll discover the benefits.

I understand. My reason to focus on capabilities rather than style is
pissing matches on style are far harder to close than those on
capabilities. One is a matter of taste, another is a matter of
evidence. You express taste, I may or may not know enough to decide.
Even if I do, I may or may not agree with your taste. Thats human. The
point is that discussion does not really leave anyone wiser. One can
get metacircular about opinions backing up opinions, but they have to
somewhere rest on some reasonable evidence. Else these discussions
cannot reach any reasonable point of either convergence or incremental
increase in wisdom. On the other hands discussions which are focused
on measurable goals are easier to have since I can both conclude, come
out of the discussion a bit more enlightened and even stand corrected
as appropriate without having to worry about taste.

>
> To reiterate, yes, I believe Python's metaclasses (differently implemented
> as they are) are constraining specifically for the point I mentioned above
> in this very note. Python's metaclasses do not allow for the modification
> of the behaviour of a class/object at runtime.

Modifying a python class allows modification of behaviour of the
object at runtime (adding bar and class_level_constant to Foo above)
Modifying a python metaclass allows modification of the corresponding
classes at runtime. (adding fubar and buz above)
Modifying a python metaclass allows modification of constructions of
newer classes in the future (using "fubar" to decide what rockband
should be set to above)


> The way I see it, the best they do is extract boilerplate code from class definitions.

I hope I offered some code which does a bit more than that.

> I can get that
> with class decorators and avoid all the confusion about how Python does
> metaclasses differently as well as how metaclasses wire into the type
> system. To me, Python's metaclasses provide too little value for the
> cognitive load they add, YMMV.

In most cases you don't need to worry about metaclasses. You just
should worry about the classes (ie. Foo, not FooMeta, not f).
Metaclasses at least in the pythonosphere are more frequently useful
as class factories, but they are pretty much programmable should you
want to.

>
> - d
>
> * They really should've stuck to Class Decorators and avoided the
> confusion, or did those come after metaclasses?

I have come to believe differently because class decorator imo is the
80-20 sweet spot. In most cases what you want can get done using class
decorators. But metaclasses help you reach the other 20%

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Tue Oct 22 14:33:28 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2013 18:03:28 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Programming in python
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4MKH3tY6n3JgbdHwr5ew6yvFBapxf9Md8XmYuYhQt-uXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <COL130-W11152F82170984B478F27DED1A0@phx.gbl>
 <CAD2aR4M2ai-Ec8TvRzJLTwEjO5RzeHsoU1g5xpbSRg+=3r30pg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaDsxguxTRP2E-5CxvV5ibf1dXkqhRUq04NrFW2SdfMpeg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4PiG++Sj72_=3=_18_fWmPFCgnkD=rxjY-ENfZdD3W3kA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCW+0f+2SxmryFkQfZM_o+kYwdyZ0PTydxYhe8Um3EyJw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OY9fd3cJ=aWt5VFp9H=bsjS1ZouSVgbxmKLdimN4u4bA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaBNMWvp-88Dwb_6CJheOXdbFdv9viig+fWxvdKx-8GNSg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OjaXemh_9mpJYJ3eJTyiL8V+0rMKU+Ker-jAtF=-FG5Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaD4Ad=SUuQyBUH7Z+EJJoK=4bteB4NZFY3rnYms0p2E4w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4OdBZSa_SubXKu_G1nToa2YjnDnuyYoR6TBNctzo8s3tg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADfLaaCJgXS5OqgE6Oh9dSWVKmkhGfL3EqWVhMp+7gAcTb0Xig@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4MKH3tY6n3JgbdHwr5ew6yvFBapxf9Md8XmYuYhQt-uXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4MdhDRDqRGkskVVBz1snGMB=Bt-S=qUmg8aNv2h7Scr2w@mail.gmail.com>

Am going to sign out of this discussion. It would not be correct to
say it is reaching the point of diminishing returns. In fact for
myself it has turned more interesting. But its turned a bit esoteric.
Have been doing up some more reading and I drew a few conclusions for
myself

* Terms don't mean the same across languages. In fact they may not
even mean the same within programmers of the same language. (eg.
metaclasses and
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2676007/what-is-rubys-analog-to-python-metaclasses
)
* I think the semantics need to be evaluated in the context of what
capabilities are imparted. Incidentally I got much more confused about
metaclasses in other langs, though I'm going to probably not continue
with seeking more there at the moment. But I think my comfort persists
that Python has the necessary constructs to support various usecases I
could think of, and thats good enough for the moment. Much of the
runtime capability enhancement is available via classes and
construction time via metaclasses (the point Saager was driving). I
think I got that. These are powerful tools at a programmers disposal.

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Wed Oct 23 09:54:17 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:24:17 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <20131003083246.GA1990@TR.local>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
 <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>
 <CAD2aR4P=kAm39kk4e-O5eWYPXnZuWiLfZyxnaBUbXhMuM7bRYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003083246.GA1990@TR.local>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4M0i=9up0qGeguXkHnvS=RJ8yCh10qe4e_KAVD9geTjLA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Aditya Laghate <aditya at thinrhino.net.in> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 01:18:24PM +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
>> >
>> Its in the downloaded tar.gz. You'll find the jar in lib/src
>> Besides the community edition clearly mentions "Free, open-source,
>> Apache 2 license"
>
> I had downloaded the OS X version of PyCharm. Looked into the lib/src
> folder and found three files (OS X version), viz:
> - pycharm-openapi-src.zip
> - pycharm-pydev-src.zip
> - trove4j_src.jar
>
> None of them have the entire source code the PyCharm IDE.
>
> I don't know what is available in the linux package.
>
> btw, pycharm.jar is about 74 mb, as against the total of the above three
> files in the src folder is 897 kb.
>
> Did a google search for 'source code pycharm', found a link to a blog
> post[1]. One of the comments was asking for the link of the source code,
> which was answered by "The source code of PyCharm CE will be available
> in the intellij-community repo on GitHub under Apache 2 license in a few
> days."
>
> So, I guess that solves my question on the source code.

Topical update :
http://blog.jetbrains.com/pycharm/2013/10/pycharm-3-0-community-edition-source-code-now-available/
>
> Links:
> 1:
> http://blog.jetbrains.com/pycharm/2013/09/jetbrains-delights-the-python-community-with-a-free-edition-of-its-famous-ide-pycharm-3-0/
>

From aditya at thinrhino.net.in  Wed Oct 23 11:03:58 2013
From: aditya at thinrhino.net.in (Aditya Laghate)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 14:33:58 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] BangPypers Digest, Vol 74, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4M0i=9up0qGeguXkHnvS=RJ8yCh10qe4e_KAVD9geTjLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.4078.1380780561.18129.bangpypers@python.org>
 <CAA52WSc4K+V4vYhwJDD06DeD0o0oVEY5QtxaNtzkT5HGd3=2eA@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003073136.GB1916@TR.local>
 <CAD2aR4P=kAm39kk4e-O5eWYPXnZuWiLfZyxnaBUbXhMuM7bRYg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20131003083246.GA1990@TR.local>
 <CAD2aR4M0i=9up0qGeguXkHnvS=RJ8yCh10qe4e_KAVD9geTjLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20131023090358.GB4891@TR.local>

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 01:24:17PM +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Aditya Laghate <aditya at thinrhino.net.in> wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 03, 2013 at 01:18:24PM +0530, Dhananjay Nene wrote:
> >> >
> >> Its in the downloaded tar.gz. You'll find the jar in lib/src
> >> Besides the community edition clearly mentions "Free, open-source,
> >> Apache 2 license"
> >
> > So, I guess that solves my question on the source code.
> 
> Topical update :
> http://blog.jetbrains.com/pycharm/2013/10/pycharm-3-0-community-edition-source-code-now-available/

Thanks for the update. :-)

Regards
Aditya

From pranav09032 at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 28 11:01:41 2013
From: pranav09032 at hotmail.com (Pranav Raj)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 10:01:41 +0000
Subject: [BangPypers] Python projects
Message-ID: <COL130-W9F05B272B138DB17C81A7ED080@phx.gbl>

Hello all, 
 I was thinking of starting a new development project in python and I want it to be large. So if any of you is interested (and has time) in being a part of this project , please let me know. I have some ideas, but I am not sure how much feasible it is. Plus please also suggest if you have some good ideas which you want to see implemented. 
Cheers,Pranav Raj
 		 	   		  

From kracethekingmaker at gmail.com  Mon Oct 28 11:08:31 2013
From: kracethekingmaker at gmail.com (kracekumar ramaraju)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2013 15:38:31 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python projects
In-Reply-To: <COL130-W9F05B272B138DB17C81A7ED080@phx.gbl>
References: <COL130-W9F05B272B138DB17C81A7ED080@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAO5c=mnvbdZ3UMfV-fut3O3KrWmeGE5mGQg2cLwzXHiAtxXrug@mail.gmail.com>

Pranav

 I would suggest you to go ahead and create the project in
github/bitbucket, show us some code and ask for help. By doing this you
attract like minded people. Asking idea very rarely works.


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:31 PM, Pranav Raj <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>  I was thinking of starting a new development project in python and I want
> it to be large. So if any of you is interested (and has time) in being a
> part of this project , please let me know. I have some ideas, but I am not
> sure how much feasible it is. Plus please also suggest if you have some
> good ideas which you want to see implemented.
> Cheers,Pranav Raj
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>



-- 
*
Thanks & Regards

kracekumar
"Talk is cheap, show me the code" -- Linus Torvalds
http://kracekumar.com
*

From me at bibhas.in  Tue Oct 29 04:45:05 2013
From: me at bibhas.in (Bibhas Ch Debnath)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2013 09:15:05 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Python projects
In-Reply-To: <COL130-W9F05B272B138DB17C81A7ED080@phx.gbl>
References: <COL130-W9F05B272B138DB17C81A7ED080@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAG1ZUWdANLYP0XESZ909JaAY103zO7=AAQwgJXsPr2MJ+xRbag@mail.gmail.com>

Unless you share your idea you'll never know if it's feasible. Create a
repo and share with us.
On Oct 28, 2013 3:32 PM, "Pranav Raj" <pranav09032 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>  I was thinking of starting a new development project in python and I want
> it to be large. So if any of you is interested (and has time) in being a
> part of this project , please let me know. I have some ideas, but I am not
> sure how much feasible it is. Plus please also suggest if you have some
> good ideas which you want to see implemented.
> Cheers,Pranav Raj
>
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>

From anant.techie at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 13:12:36 2013
From: anant.techie at gmail.com (Anant <TECHIE>)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 17:42:36 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Issue with list comprehension
Message-ID: <CAN25hfiQvGxKySkkb49_E61e6-nx1wcGJwg7ipYPp8qaML_Syg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

I am new to Python (have been on Java for 8 years), but I have quickly
grasped its style.

While working on a problem (as Python practice) to generate fibonacci
numbers using generators and list comprehension, I ran into an issue.

Here's my code:

*import itertools*
*
*
*def fibonacci():*
*    a, b = 0, 1*
*    while True:*
* yield b*
* a, b = b, a+b*
*
*
*fib=fibonacci()
*
*_sum=sum([n for n in itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x < 400, fib)])*
*print _sum*

Basically, I wanted to sum up all the fib numbers till 400.
*This code runs fine when run on REPL (shell). But when I run it*
*as a script, i get following error:*

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "2.py", line 10, in <module>
    _sum=sum([n for n in itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x < 400, fib)])
TypeError: 'int' object is not callable


 Python version: 2.7.3

Is there a bug in Python or am I missing something? Why does this only work
in REPL
and not as shell script?

Thanks for help.

Cheers,
Anant

From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com  Wed Oct 30 13:46:25 2013
From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 18:16:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Issue with list comprehension
In-Reply-To: <CAN25hfiQvGxKySkkb49_E61e6-nx1wcGJwg7ipYPp8qaML_Syg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN25hfiQvGxKySkkb49_E61e6-nx1wcGJwg7ipYPp8qaML_Syg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD2aR4ONkt0dk3p99O=Wzjiv3A7XCNVEtuXC3k=3TjBfmAD2sA@mail.gmail.com>

Thats surprising. The code runs just fine

http://ideone.com/06qjoM

(Ans: 986)

As an aside I renamed _sum to sum_

When avoiding naming conflicts, its recommended to postfix a underscore

Prefixing an underscore is to provide a hint that the value that gets
assigned to the variable is going to be ignore (ie. that variable
itself is going to be ignored)

Dhananjay


On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Anant <TECHIE> <anant.techie at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> I am new to Python (have been on Java for 8 years), but I have quickly
> grasped its style.
>
> While working on a problem (as Python practice) to generate fibonacci
> numbers using generators and list comprehension, I ran into an issue.
>
> Here's my code:
>
> *import itertools*
> *
> *
> *def fibonacci():*
> *    a, b = 0, 1*
> *    while True:*
> * yield b*
> * a, b = b, a+b*
> *
> *
> *fib=fibonacci()
> *
> *_sum=sum([n for n in itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x < 400, fib)])*
> *print _sum*
>
> Basically, I wanted to sum up all the fib numbers till 400.
> *This code runs fine when run on REPL (shell). But when I run it*
> *as a script, i get following error:*
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "2.py", line 10, in <module>
>     _sum=sum([n for n in itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x < 400, fib)])
> TypeError: 'int' object is not callable
>
>
>  Python version: 2.7.3
>
> Is there a bug in Python or am I missing something? Why does this only work
> in REPL
> and not as shell script?
>
> Thanks for help.
>
> Cheers,
> Anant
> _______________________________________________
> BangPypers mailing list
> BangPypers at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers

From pasokan at gmail.com  Thu Oct 31 07:52:18 2013
From: pasokan at gmail.com (Asokan Pichai)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 12:22:18 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] Issue with list comprehension
In-Reply-To: <CAD2aR4ONkt0dk3p99O=Wzjiv3A7XCNVEtuXC3k=3TjBfmAD2sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN25hfiQvGxKySkkb49_E61e6-nx1wcGJwg7ipYPp8qaML_Syg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD2aR4ONkt0dk3p99O=Wzjiv3A7XCNVEtuXC3k=3TjBfmAD2sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB3TsCjKHydW3aMm-Km2K8QoJcHPPh2nX6N7JKYiwvWQwEPUAg@mail.gmail.com>

import itertools

def fib():
  a, b = 0, 1
  while True:
      yield b
      a, b = b, a+b

print sum(itertools.takewhile(lambda x: x < 400, fib))
-----------------------
I tried the above; and it worked too (986)

Asokan Pichai

From vsapre80 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 31 09:51:25 2013
From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 14:21:25 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [OT] Courtroom finds Toyota's faulty firmware caused
	Camry accident
Message-ID: <CACPguY8Ho9JCmBO85ycEh8wPi2-0VQ6sMU5XBBNMVrmS2veuoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi friends,

slightly off topic.. 'cause this doesn't concern Python. However it does
concern good software design, and so thought of sharing with this list...

http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences

This one contains the transcript of the courtroom discussion...
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319936&page_number=1


Thanks and best regards,
Vishal Sapre

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"????? ?????, ????? ????? (Benefit for most people, Happiness for most
people.)"
---
Please DONT print this email, unless you really need to. Save Energy &
Paper. Save the Earth.

From hr at ekadantainfotech.com  Thu Oct 31 12:57:19 2013
From: hr at ekadantainfotech.com (hr at ekadantainfotech.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 17:27:19 +0530
Subject: [BangPypers] [COMMERCIAL] PYTHON PROGRAMMERS FOR DEVELOPMENT,
 CONSULTING, OUTSOURCING
Message-ID: <400d4f66ba38efba1ae3da2f3c6dee4a@ekadantainfotech.com>

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