From sethi.anubha at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 07:10:03 2010 From: sethi.anubha at gmail.com (Anubha Dadhich) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 11:40:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other Message-ID: Hi, Can two django projects be made to communicate with each other and share the same session, user_authentication etc., either at the application level or at the production server level (say apache) Explaining it further - Say there are two django projects, with different settings file, but sharing the same database, can they be made to run on the same port? Or else, say one project is running on port aaaa and the other project is running on port yyyy, can apache be configured in such a way that the user does not come to know about the switch in port when a request is sent from the url. i.e. say there are two requests i). www.test.com:aaaa/account/login -- project1 ii). www.test.com:yyyy/profile -- project2 can there be any configuration setting so that the user does not have to provide the port number explicitly to tell apache that the two requests are actually to two different projects and can simply send the request as i) www.test.com/account/login -- project1 ii) www.test.com/profile -- project2 Just wanted to confirm if such a setting is possible or not. If yes, then plz provide some information on how to achieve this. -- Anubha Dadhich From runsarath.c at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 08:00:09 2010 From: runsarath.c at gmail.com (sarath babu) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:30:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to do RSA encryption in python Message-ID: Dear all, I am searching for doing rsa encryption in python. Please give me a method to do RSA key generation, encryption and decryption. Thank you -- Sarath Babu MTech Computer Science & Engineering (Information Security) NIT Calicut From zubin.mithra at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 08:11:57 2010 From: zubin.mithra at gmail.com (Zubin Mithra) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:41:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to do RSA encryption in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, > Dear all, > I am searching for doing rsa encryption in python. Please give me a method > to do RSA key generation, encryption and decryption. > > http://stuvel.eu/rsa seems good. zm From amit.pureenergy at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 08:31:03 2010 From: amit.pureenergy at gmail.com (Amit Sethi) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:01:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to do RSA encryption in python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 12:30 PM, sarath babu wrote: > Dear all, > I am searching for doing rsa encryption in python. Please give me a method > to do RSA key generation, encryption and decryption. > I think you might like to look at pycrypto[1] or sagemath[2] . There is also a toy rsa example using sagemath here[3]. [1]: http://www.dlitz.net/software/pycrypto/doc/ [2]: http://www.sagemath.org/doc/reference/cryptography.html [3]: http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/attachment/ticket/9726/srsa.2.patch -- A-M-I-T S|S From noufal at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 08:32:14 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:02:14 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] How to do RSA encryption in python In-Reply-To: (sarath babu's message of "Wed, 1 Dec 2010 12:30:09 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87aakqymm9.fsf@gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 01 2010, sarath babu wrote: > Dear all, > I am searching for doing rsa encryption in python. Please give me a method > to do RSA key generation, encryption and decryption. [...] If you're looking for the encryption algorithm, google for "RSA Algorithm" and you'll get what you want. If you're looking for a Python module that implements this, google for "RSA Python" and you'll get what you want. -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From jinsthomas at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 09:23:17 2010 From: jinsthomas at gmail.com (Jins Thomas) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:53:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books Message-ID: Hi all, Would somebody advise some good beginner level books on Python, where Object Oriented concepts are also being discussed. May be because I haven't used much of the OO concepts, I'm feeling a bit difficulty in understanding this. Getting a feel like most of the python books deal like reader has already some conceptual understanding on Object Oriented Concepts. Cheers Jins Thomas From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 09:55:28 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:25:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Couple of Qs you might want to ask yourself before you venture into OO: # Why do i want to learn OO # What are the advantages of OO # What are the other design paradigms # How good am I with the basics of Python (if not spend sometime learning this) # Does OO and Python go together well? # If I am going to try OO with Python, then what are the mistakes that i CAN do? For eg. will i bring the Java programming paradigm in Python? Learning OO is good, but dont overdo it :) -V- http://twitter.com/venkasub From orsenthil at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 10:13:48 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:13:48 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > Couple of Qs you might want to ask yourself before you venture into OO: Please no. Venkat, a -1 to your response as it might confuse a newcomer. IMHO, the questions are not related at all. Jins, forget these questions. Just learn it as you are curious, it will be helpful and will become your second nature as you use python. Dive into Python is a good book which will teach you both python and Object Oriented Programming. But before reading that read a couple of other beginner books. A byte of python is a good one to start with. Also just play around with these builtin functions in python interpretor: - isinstance, hasattr, getattr and dir. You will come to understand things better. Thanks, Senthil -- Senthil From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 10:25:20 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 14:55:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > > Couple of Qs you might want to ask yourself before you venture into OO: > > Please no. Venkat, a -1 to your response as it might confuse a > newcomer. IMHO, the questions are not related at all. > Most of the people(especially newbies) get into OO without knowing what the language has to offer, and they overdo OO. I have seen some dreaded java-comes-into-python code -- especially something as simple as a singleton pattern. OO is a nice paradigm, but one need not go the OO way for the heck of it. And moreover , i never said anything against OO, i just asked the OP to do a self-analysis on where he stands on the Python front before venturing in (he should venture in, but before that he has to get the fundamentals right). The Python docs themselves give an excellant intro to Classes , and trust me, i have never gone beyond this in my py code on the OO front. But still you can refute me, thats the beauty of the online medium :) -V- From noufal at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 10:41:43 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 15:11:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: (Jins Thomas's message of "Wed, 1 Dec 2010 13:53:17 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87r5e1ygmg.fsf@gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Jins Thomas wrote: > Hi all, > > Would somebody advise some good beginner level books on Python, where > Object Oriented concepts are also being discussed. > > May be because I haven't used much of the OO concepts, I'm feeling a bit > difficulty in understanding this. Getting a feel like most of the python > books deal like reader has already some conceptual understanding on Object > Oriented Concepts. [...] One bit of advice when approaching OO is to stay *away* from C++. It's syntax heavy, baroque style of doing things totally confuses people. Experience with Python cleaned up a lot of the brain damage I inflicted on myself with C++. Apart from that, Going through the official tutorial was what got me started. -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From lawgon at au-kbc.org Wed Dec 1 10:42:28 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 15:12:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1291196548.2137.433.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 14:25 +0530, Venkatraman S wrote: > Couple of Qs you might want to ask yourself before you venture into > OO: > # Why do i want to learn OO > # What are the advantages of OO > # What are the other design paradigms > # How good am I with the basics of Python (if not spend sometime > learning > this) > # Does OO and Python go together well? > # If I am going to try OO with Python, then what are the mistakes that > i CAN > do? could you reply to your questions please -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From orsenthil at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 10:52:48 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:52:48 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > Most of the people(especially newbies) get into OO without knowing what the > language has to offer, and they overdo OO. If they do Python, they are doing OO. So if they over do python, they are overdoing OO. :) > I have seen some dreaded > java-comes-into-python > code -- especially something as simple as a singleton pattern. I think, you mean writing a program in particular language in a "idiomatic way". Nothing to do with OO here. Singleton patterns do not really apply in Python world. > anything against OO, i just asked the OP to do a self-analysis on where he > stands on the That's what I found it wrong. It is not required for him to do a self-analysis to study OO. Python is a completely OO language from ground up. If you learn python, you are learning OO. Only thing is, "if you care", you might just have to get the terms right as the rest of the world knows or expects. > But still you can refute me, thats the beauty of the online medium :) And together we learn. :) -- Senthil From lawgon at au-kbc.org Wed Dec 1 10:54:26 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 15:24:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: <87r5e1ygmg.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87r5e1ygmg.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1291197266.2137.445.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:11 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > May be because I haven't used much of the OO concepts, I'm feeling a > bit > > difficulty in understanding this. Getting a feel like most of the > python > > books deal like reader has already some conceptual understanding on > Object > > Oriented Concepts. > > [...] > > One bit of advice when approaching OO is to stay *away* from C++. It's > syntax heavy, baroque style of doing things totally confuses > people. Experience with Python cleaned up a lot of the brain damage I > inflicted on myself with C++. > > Apart from that, Going through the official tutorial was what got me > started. also python in a nutshell. btw, I have been using classes for a long time - got into it with wxPython - but does using classes mean one is doing OOP? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From avinashtm at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 11:07:45 2010 From: avinashtm at gmail.com (Avinash TM) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:37:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: you can go through 'Learning Python' by Mark Lutz (O'REILLY publications) -Avinash On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Jins Thomas wrote: > Hi all, > > Would somebody advise some good beginner level books on Python, where > Object Oriented concepts are also being discussed. > > May be because I haven't used much of the OO concepts, I'm feeling a bit > difficulty in understanding this. Getting a feel like most of the python > books deal like reader has already some conceptual understanding on Object > Oriented Concepts. > > > Cheers > Jins Thomas > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lorddaemon at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 11:27:41 2010 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:57:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Perhaps you need a single sign-on option? Something like OAuth 2 might help. Best, Sidu. http://c42.in On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Anubha Dadhich wrote: > Hi, > > Can two django projects be made to communicate with each other and share > the same session, user_authentication etc., either at the application level > or at the production server level (say apache) > > Explaining it further - > > Say there are two django projects, with different settings file, but > sharing > the same database, can they be made to run on the same port? > > Or else, say one project is running on port aaaa and the other project is > running on port yyyy, can apache be configured in such a way that the user > does not come to know about the switch in port when a request is sent from > the url. > > i.e. say there are two requests > > i). www.test.com:aaaa/account/login -- project1 > ii). www.test.com:yyyy/profile -- project2 > > can there be any configuration setting so that the user does not have to > provide the port number explicitly to tell apache that the two requests are > actually to two different projects and can simply send the request as > > i) www.test.com/account/login -- project1 > ii) www.test.com/profile -- project2 > > Just wanted to confirm if such a setting is possible or not. If yes, then > plz provide some information on how to achieve this. > > > -- > Anubha Dadhich > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lorddaemon at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 11:34:28 2010 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:04:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: <1291197266.2137.445.camel@localhost> References: <87r5e1ygmg.fsf@gmail.com> <1291197266.2137.445.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > > but does using classes mean one is > doing OOP? > Not necessarily, no. Also, one can do perfectly good OO in languages like javascript or Io which have no classes. To answer the OP's question, assuming you're already a competent progammer in any one language, I'd recommend Fowler's 'Refactoring' as the best guide to good OO simply because it brings out so much in the way of bad OO and gives one techniques to move to cleaner, better encapsulated code. Here's a brief guide to the book (in a rather loud style, but the points are valid): http://sites.google.com/site/steveyegge2/transformation Best, Sidu. http://c42.in On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 15:11 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > > May be because I haven't used much of the OO concepts, I'm feeling a > > bit > > > difficulty in understanding this. Getting a feel like most of the > > python > > > books deal like reader has already some conceptual understanding on > > Object > > > Oriented Concepts. > > > > [...] > > > > One bit of advice when approaching OO is to stay *away* from C++. It's > > syntax heavy, baroque style of doing things totally confuses > > people. Experience with Python cleaned up a lot of the brain damage I > > inflicted on myself with C++. > > > > Apart from that, Going through the official tutorial was what got me > > started. > > also python in a nutshell. btw, I have been using classes for a long > time - got into it with wxPython - but does using classes mean one is > doing OOP? > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From siddharta.lists at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 11:44:16 2010 From: siddharta.lists at gmail.com (Siddharta G) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:14:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Yes you can, we do something like what you mentioned. If both projects share the database, and are on the same domain (ie they share the cookie) then you can login in one and be authenticated in the other. Both projects need to be configured to use the same auth backend (its like this by default) If they are separate domains or servers and database is not shared then you need more complicated solutions like OAuth that Sidu mentioned. For the second part of your question about ports: Yes, in Apache, you can run multiple projects off a single port. Our system is set up so that http://host/project1 goes to project1 and http://host/project2 goes to project2. You can also setup the system so that you have a frontend apache server which routes to other apache servers on different ports, like this -> Apache port 80 /project1 -> Apache port 8080 -> Django project 1 /project2 -> Apache port 8081 -> Django project 2 -- Siddharta http://ToolsForAgile.com From sethi.anubha at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 11:59:28 2010 From: sethi.anubha at gmail.com (Anubha Dadhich) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:29:28 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:14 PM, Siddharta G wrote: > Yes you can, we do something like what you mentioned. > > If both projects share the database, and are on the same domain (ie they > share the cookie) then you can login in one and be authenticated in the > other. Both projects need to be configured to use the same auth backend > (its > like this by default) > > If they are separate domains or servers and database is not shared then you > need more complicated solutions like OAuth that Sidu mentioned. > > For the second part of your question about ports: > > Yes, in Apache, you can run multiple projects off a single port. Our system > is set up so that http://host/project1 goes to project1 and > http://host/project2 goes to project2. > > You can also setup the system so that you have a frontend apache server > which routes to other apache servers on different ports, like this > > -> Apache port 80 > /project1 -> Apache port 8080 -> Django project 1 > /project2 -> Apache port 8081 -> Django project 2 > > Thanks for your reply. Can u plz provide me with a few links that would help me in configuring my application/apache in the way u mentioned above. -- > Siddharta > http://ToolsForAgile.com > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lawgon at au-kbc.org Wed Dec 1 12:03:29 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:33:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring Message-ID: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> hi, I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still used? or is this whole thing buzz? -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From santrajan at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:17:19 2010 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 16:47:19 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: I don't want to start an argument here. But here is my personal take on this. 1) A self respecting developer will NOT need to refactor his code in the first place. 2) Given the movement towards functional programming, you don't need refactoring at all. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://hi.im/santosh From anandology at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:35:16 2010 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:05:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: 2010/12/1 Santosh Rajan : > I don't want to start an argument here. That is a good way to start an argument. :) > But here is my personal take on this. > > 1) A self respecting developer will NOT need to refactor his code in > the first place. > 2) Given the movement towards functional programming, you don't need > refactoring at all. Wikipedia says: "Code refactoring is the process of changing a computer program's source code without modifying its external functional behavior in order to improve some of the nonfunctional attributes of the software." I think it is pretty common to refactor code irrespective of self respect and functional/oop/whatever programming style you use. If you don't ever feel like refactoring your code, then either you are god or you don't read your code. anand From scorpion032 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:46:48 2010 From: scorpion032 at gmail.com (Lakshman Prasad) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:16:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If I understand what you are saying, You have 2 different projects in django, (in different repos) and you don't want to have user logged in, in each site. The *simplest* way to solve this is to configure the django.contrib.auth of both the projects to use the same database. - And yes, it is a goddamn database. Any number of separate projects can open connections to it. Details about using multiple databases in projects can be found in the documentation: http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases Essentially you will need to define the routers and for this case, the router is just a lambda that gives the user database if the app is django.contrib.auth. On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Anubha Dadhich wrote: > Hi, > > Can two django projects be made to communicate with each other and share > the same session, user_authentication etc., either at the application level > or at the production server level (say apache) > > Explaining it further - > > Say there are two django projects, with different settings file, but > sharing > the same database, can they be made to run on the same port? > > Or else, say one project is running on port aaaa and the other project is > running on port yyyy, can apache be configured in such a way that the user > does not come to know about the switch in port when a request is sent from > the url. > > i.e. say there are two requests > > i). www.test.com:aaaa/account/login -- project1 > ii). www.test.com:yyyy/profile -- project2 > > can there be any configuration setting so that the user does not have to > provide the port number explicitly to tell apache that the two requests are > actually to two different projects and can simply send the request as > > i) www.test.com/account/login -- project1 > ii) www.test.com/profile -- project2 > > Just wanted to confirm if such a setting is possible or not. If yes, then > plz provide some information on how to achieve this. > > > -- > Anubha Dadhich > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From ambatisreedhar at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:52:00 2010 From: ambatisreedhar at gmail.com (sreedhar ambati) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 15:52:00 +0400 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python Message-ID: Hi I am new to Python. I am from PHP,Microsoft .net background. Can you tell me the real power behind Python language? What kind of applications we can develop? Please quote some real time projects where industries are using Python Thanks Sreedhar Ambati http://ambatisreedhar.spaces.live.com http://ambatisreedhar.wordpress.com From lorddaemon at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 12:55:25 2010 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:25:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? > I'd say this is relevant if you're working in an OO language. Refactoring applies anywhere, but the patterns documented in the book apply pretty much only to OO languages. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? > I think the tools (like Bicycle Repair Man) are merely aids to techniques to keeping a clean house. They make make things easier, but they aren't essential. 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. > A rather strong statement, but I would tend to agree. We could probably figure out much of what Martin talks about by ourselves over time, but then again, maybe not. For me, Refactoring, Code Complete, The Mythical Man Month and The Pragmatic Programmer are an essential foundation for good software engineering practices. Santosh, I don't want to start an argument here. But here is my personal take on > this. > Sure, I don't either. Here's my personal take on this. 1) A self respecting developer will NOT need to refactor his code in > the first place. > If said self respecting developer writes perfect code the first time around on a project for which requirements never change or evolve, then yes, you wouldn't need to refactor. 2) Given the movement towards functional programming, you don't need > refactoring at all. > I haven't written functional code professionally, but I suppose it's possible that fp programmers write perfect code the first time around and all their projects have unchanging requirements. Best, Sidu. http://c42.in On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From sethi.anubha at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:06:09 2010 From: sethi.anubha at gmail.com (Anubha Dadhich) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:36:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > If I understand what you are saying, > > You have 2 different projects in django, (in different repos) and you don't > want to have user logged in, in each site. > They are in the same repository. Yes we do not want user to log in at both the places. > > The *simplest* way to solve this is to configure the django.contrib.auth of > both the projects to use the same database. - And yes, it is a goddamn > database. Any number of separate projects can open connections to it. > Yes the two projects are sharing the same database. > Details about using multiple databases in projects can be found in the > documentation: > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > < > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > >Essentially > you will need to define the routers and for this case, the router is just a > lambda that gives the user database if the app is django.contrib.auth. > > > The problem is that I do not understand how to make apache redirect requests to their respective projects. Say the projects, project1 and project2, have their respective urls.py file. When the url is www.test.com/account/login -- the request should be redirected to project1, because only the urls file in the project1 knows how to resolve it. as the url changes to www.test.com/profile -- the request should be redirected to project2. (say profile requires user to be authenticated, then as you and siddharta mentioned that user authentication is taken care by django.contrib.auth backend and the two projects are already sharing the same database, there should not be any problem in passing the user_context between the two projects). I need some links which will help me configure apache in the desired way. That will help a great deal. Thanks all. From scorpion032 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:29:02 2010 From: scorpion032 at gmail.com (Lakshman Prasad) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:59:02 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you have 2 base urls.py, I think correspondingly, you also need 2 settings.py and hence 2 WSGI files. As far as I know, each Apache virtualhost can only take 1 WSGIProcess. So you will need 2 apache processes. - I might be wrong on this, and there might be a better way. The best way, I can think of to move the request around between projects (and corresponding apache processes) would be to use nginx as a proxy and pass the request to an appropriate process. There are many good tutorials to configure nginx to proxy apache. You should refer: http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/tutorials/django-deployment-guide-ubuntu But I wonder why you want to have 2 urls.py and 2 settings.py *within the same repo*. Sounds counter intuitive to me. Is there a reason you cant refactor it into the same urls.py with includes like: urlpatterns = patterns('', (r'^weblog/', include('django_website.apps.blog.urls.blog')), (r'^documentation/', include('django_website.apps.docs.urls.docs')), (r'^comments/', include('django.contrib.comments.urls')),) On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Anubha Dadhich wrote: > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Lakshman Prasad >wrote: > > > If I understand what you are saying, > > > > You have 2 different projects in django, (in different repos) and you > don't > > want to have user logged in, in each site. > > > > They are in the same repository. Yes we do not want user to log in at both > the places. > > > > > The *simplest* way to solve this is to configure the django.contrib.auth > of > > both the projects to use the same database. - And yes, it is a goddamn > > database. Any number of separate projects can open connections to it. > > > > Yes the two projects are sharing the same database. > > > > Details about using multiple databases in projects can be found in the > > documentation: > > > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > > > < > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > >Essentially > > you will need to define the routers and for this case, the router is just > a > > lambda that gives the user database if the app is django.contrib.auth. > > > > > > > The problem is that I do not understand how to make apache redirect > requests > to their respective projects. > > Say the projects, project1 and project2, have their respective urls.py > file. > > When the url is www.test.com/account/login -- the request should be > redirected to project1, because only the urls file in the project1 knows > how > to resolve it. > > as the url changes to www.test.com/profile -- the request should be > redirected to project2. (say profile requires user to be authenticated, > then > as you and siddharta mentioned that user authentication is taken care by > django.contrib.auth backend and the two projects are already sharing the > same database, there should not be any problem in passing the user_context > between the two projects). > > I need some links which will help me configure apache in the desired way. > That will help a great deal. > > > Thanks all. > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From ramkrsna at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:33:01 2010 From: ramkrsna at gmail.com (Ramakrishna Reddy) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:03:01 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? Its not a Buzz for sure. Refactoring is just a neat name, which developers have been doing for years. Its common among developers to rework on their code bases. Have a better implementation for the same function. Nothing to do with a Programming Language. Its a nice read and recommended read for person dealing in Object Oriented Programming on a daily basis with C++, Java. Python itself does not restrict you to know OOPS to solve problems in python. To swear by a book, methodology . Refactoring Book is not up there. Not sure if the Book got an update, It was a almost a decade ago since I read it. The only folks who made statements like that were freshers from Throatworks :P regards -- Ramakrishna Reddy? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? GPG Key ID:31FF0090 Fingerprint =? 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F? 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090 From vikas.bn at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:35:53 2010 From: vikas.bn at gmail.com (Vikas BN) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:05:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there are others on this list who can better articulate. -Vikas Sent from my mobile device On Dec 1, 2010 5:25 PM, "sreedhar ambati" wrote: Hi I am new to Python. I am from PHP,Microsoft .net background. Can you tell me the real power behind Python language? What kind of applications we can develop? Please quote some real time projects where industries are using Python Thanks Sreedhar Ambati http://ambatisreedhar.spaces.live.com http://ambatisreedhar.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ BangPypers mailing list BangPypers at python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:36:59 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:06:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: India Map by State for Viz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I had sent this to Chennai-LUG, any thoughts from this group? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Venkatraman S Date: Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:57 AM Subject: India Map by State for Viz To: ILUG-C I was wondering whether there is anything similar for India(which allows us to show viz by state): http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/intensitymap.html (The above does at the country level) Also, is there anything similar for mapping countries, other than that of Google? -V- From b.ghose at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:39:33 2010 From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:09:33 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there are > others on this list who can better articulate. Flickr is written in PHP. Regards, BG -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com From ramkrsna at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 13:43:38 2010 From: ramkrsna at gmail.com (Ramakrishna Reddy) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:13:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Vikas BN wrote: > one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there are > others on this list who can better articulate. w00t! when did this happen ? last I heard was their own version of PHP regards -- Ramakrishna Reddy? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?? GPG Key ID:31FF0090 Fingerprint =? 18D7 3FC1 784B B57F C08F? 32B9 4496 B2A1 31FF 0090 From pradeep at btbytes.com Wed Dec 1 14:34:32 2010 From: pradeep at btbytes.com (Pradeep Gowda) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 08:34:32 -0500 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:52 AM, sreedhar ambati wrote: > Hi > > I am new to Python. > I am from PHP,Microsoft .net background. > Can you tell me the real power behind Python language? > What kind of applications we can develop? > Please quote some real time projects where industries are using Python Actually, an even more interesting question should be what you cannot do with python. Python is a general purpose language which can do everything from desktop apps, web apps, scientific and statical apps, automation, shell scripting, data analysis, and even assembly level programming [1] Python runs on everything from a 8 bit processor[2] to a supercomputer. You might have heard about this site called Youtube.com where apparently you can watch cats playing piano. It is written in Python. [1] corepy.com [2] I'm currently have one on my desk. From gora at mimirtech.com Wed Dec 1 14:32:24 2010 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:02:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: India Map by State for Viz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > I had sent this to Chennai-LUG, any thoughts from this group? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Venkatraman S > Date: Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:57 AM > Subject: India Map by State for Vizilab > To: ILUG-C > > > I was wondering whether there is anything similar for India(which allows us > to show viz by state): > http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/intensitymap.html What do you mean by "anything similar for India"? Are you asking whether there is an already-existing site that does this, or are you asking whether it is easily possible to do this? Assuming the latter, please see below. > (The above does at the country level) > > Also, is there anything similar for mapping countries, other than that of > Google? [...] It is possible to do both of the above quite easily (2-3 days of work for a rough-and-ready protoype), with FOSS tools. You would need to: (a) Get files that define the geometry of countries, and of Indian states. I know that .SHP files providing such polygons/multi-polygons are freely available for countries, Indian states, and even Indian districts. I can dig up links to such files if you are interested. (b) Decide on a GIS framework to use for the site. Personally, I would use GeoDjango, which makes it easy to import .SHP geometries, and to handle geospatial data. For the presentation layer, one could use either Google Maps (easy to get set up), or preferably OpenLayers ( http://openlayers.org ) along with GeoDjango. OpenLayers is significantly more complex, and a little weak on the documentation front (though, there are many examples available), but a lot more flexible, and one is not tied to Google Maps. Using the OpenLayers Javascript by itself, or Drupal and the Drupal OpenLayers module is also a possibility. Regards, Gora From noufal at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 15:03:45 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:33:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> (Kenneth Gonsalves's message of "Wed, 01 Dec 2010 16:33:29 +0530") References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: [...] > 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the > refactoring book'. [...] If that's his tone of voice and his attitude, I'd pigeonhole him as a zealot and ignore him. Given Fowlers reputation, I'm sure it's a good book (I haven't read it myself) but an almost religious attachment to a technology, practice or language is usually, in most people, a bad sign. On a semi-related note, the agile movement in general has fostered a semi-cult around it from what I've seen. I like most of what the movement is about and try to follow it but when someone gets all religious about it, I prefer being the contrarian. -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From noufal at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 15:06:45 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:36:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: (Baishampayan Ghose's message of "Wed, 1 Dec 2010 18:09:33 +0530") References: Message-ID: <871v618u4q.fsf@gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Baishampayan Ghose wrote: >> one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there are >> others on this list who can better articulate. > > Flickr is written in PHP. [...] And Cal Henderson's Djangocon keynote on "Why I hate Django" is real fun to watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Fr65PFqfk -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 15:31:04 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 20:01:04 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: India Map by State for Viz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:02 PM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > > > http://code.google.com/apis/visualization/documentation/gallery/intensitymap.html > > What do you mean by "anything similar for India"? Are you asking whether > there is an already-existing site that does this, or are you asking whether > it > is easily possible to do this? Assuming the latter, please see below. > Google provides a means by which by just mentioning the country code, we get handle to that country and then encode other information(say, literacy rate, etc etc) along with it and show as a map with relevant viz. I am ref to something similar, by which one can get handle to states in India, and then encode similarly as/in a viz map. Your other option is definitely possible, but i sincerely do not have the time to do it. I had opined that the OSM guys would have something on this front, but a quick dig in their arena did not give me anything useful. Actually, i would highly suggest if someone in the group does this and releases it in OSS, would be of immense help to many. There is so much data related to India, and any standard viz api for this would be great. -V From gora at mimirtech.com Wed Dec 1 18:23:03 2010 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:53:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: India Map by State for Viz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:01 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: [...] > Google provides a means by which by just mentioning the country code, ?we > get handle to that country and then encode other information(say, literacy > rate, etc etc) > along with it and show as a map with relevant viz. > > I am ref to something similar, by which one can get handle to states in > India, > and then encode similarly as/in a viz map. > > Your other option is definitely possible, but i sincerely do not have the > time to do it. > I had opined that the OSM guys would have something on this front, but a > quick dig in > their arena did not give me anything useful. > > Actually, i would highly suggest if someone in the group does this and > releases it in OSS, > would be of immense help to many. There is so much data related to India, > and any > standard viz api for this would be great. [...] No offence meant to you personally, but IMHO, FOSS is always about scratching one's itch. Probably the reason that OpenStreetMap does not have this feature is that no one has had this particular itch badly enough. I emphasise again that I mean no offence towards you in particular, but it is always easier to find work for other people. May I turn your question around, and ask *you* why do you not implement that, and release it as FOSS? Regards, Gora From jinsthomas at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 18:25:54 2010 From: jinsthomas at gmail.com (Jins Thomas) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:55:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python version 2.x or 3.x Message-ID: Hi all, Would like to ask one more doubt regarding which version we should concentrate, considering a newbie to python. Cheers Jins Thomas From jeffjosejeff at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:04:06 2010 From: jeffjosejeff at gmail.com (Jeffrey Jose) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:34:06 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: <871v618u4q.fsf@gmail.com> References: <871v618u4q.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: IIRC, most of the backend of youtube is written in python (unladen swallow ?) /jeff On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Baishampayan Ghose wrote: > > >> one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there are > >> others on this list who can better articulate. > > > > Flickr is written in PHP. > > [...] > > And Cal Henderson's Djangocon keynote on "Why I hate Django" is real fun > to watch > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6Fr65PFqfk > > -- > ~noufal > http://nibrahim.net.in > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:24:09 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 23:54:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: India Map by State for Viz In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Just an FYI : such maps are called as Choropleth Maps. http://vis.stanford.edu/protovis/ex/choropleth.html -V- From noufal at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 19:28:29 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 23:58:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python version 2.x or 3.x In-Reply-To: (Jins Thomas's message of "Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:55:54 +0530") References: Message-ID: <8762vd73g2.fsf@gmail.com> On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Jins Thomas wrote: > Hi all, > > Would like to ask one more doubt regarding which version we should > concentrate, considering a newbie to python. [...] Most production software right now is still using 2.* -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From umar43 at gmail.com Wed Dec 1 20:09:31 2010 From: umar43 at gmail.com (Umar Shah) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 00:39:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [django] django-cms page templates Message-ID: Hi, I have to built a django-cms based app. While I have experience with django I never used django-cms before. I want to create various page type templates that could be used in the system. What is the best way to do it. I couldn't find much information from django-cms docs/ google. Can someone share some useful links, pointers. Thanks , Umar From orsenthil at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 04:04:03 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 11:04:03 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] Python version 2.x or 3.x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20101202030402.GE1873@rubuntu> On Wed, Dec 01, 2010 at 10:55:54PM +0530, Jins Thomas wrote: > Hi all, > > Would like to ask one more doubt regarding which version we should > concentrate, considering a newbie to python. If you want to study and get started, start with python3. There is not much difference between the Python2 and Python3 for newcomers and you might realize as soon as you complete reading few tutorials. -- Senthil From lawgon at au-kbc.org Thu Dec 2 04:20:07 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:50:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1291260007.2137.481.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 18:03 +0530, Ramakrishna Reddy wrote: > > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see > much > > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > > used? or is this whole thing buzz? > > Its not a Buzz for sure. Refactoring is just a neat name, which > developers have been doing for years. Its common among developers to > rework on their code bases. Have a better implementation for the same > function. Nothing to do with a Programming Language. Its a nice read > and recommended read for person dealing in Object Oriented Programming > on a daily basis with C++, Java. Python itself does not restrict you > to know OOPS I am an expert in oops - am always hitting the wrong key or dropping things ;-) So people who do not do OOP are not allowed to refactor? > to solve problems in python. To swear by a book, > methodology . Refactoring Book is not up there. Not sure if the Book > got an update, It was a almost a decade ago since I read it. The only > folks who made statements like that were freshers from Throatworks :P good one - they are rather vocal when it comes to promoting buzzwords like agile -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From lawgon at au-kbc.org Thu Dec 2 04:20:48 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 08:50:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1291260048.2137.482.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 18:05 +0530, Vikas BN wrote: > one that I know of is flickr. About the power of the language there > are > others on this list who can better articulate. facebook -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From lawgon at au-kbc.org Thu Dec 2 04:31:21 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:01:21 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python version 2.x or 3.x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1291260681.2137.484.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 22:55 +0530, Jins Thomas wrote: > Would like to ask one more doubt regarding which version we should > concentrate, considering a newbie to python. 2.x if you are going into production - 3.x if you are doing it for fun - both if you have the time -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From sethi.anubha at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 07:19:56 2010 From: sethi.anubha at gmail.com (Anubha Dadhich) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 11:49:56 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > If you have 2 base urls.py, I think correspondingly, you also need 2 > settings.py and hence 2 WSGI files. > > As far as I know, each Apache virtualhost can only take 1 WSGIProcess. So > you will need 2 apache processes. - I might be wrong on this, and there > might be a better way. > > The best way, I can think of to move the request around between projects > (and corresponding apache processes) would be to use nginx as a proxy and > pass the request to an appropriate process. > > There are many good tutorials to configure nginx to proxy apache. You > should > refer: > http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/tutorials/django-deployment-guide-ubuntu > > < > http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/tutorials/django-deployment-guide-ubuntu > >But > I wonder why you want to have 2 urls.py and 2 settings.py *within the same > repo*. Sounds counter intuitive to me. Is there a reason you cant refactor > it into the same urls.py with includes like: > > urlpatterns = patterns('', > (r'^weblog/', include('django_website.apps.blog.urls.blog')), > (r'^documentation/', include('django_website.apps.docs.urls.docs')), > (r'^comments/', include('django.contrib.comments.urls')),) > > > As is almost always the case, have received code which is half done. I actually want to refactor the code before proceeding further with development, but the live site is down so the priority is to get the site up and running. I just wanted to confirm if there is something to be done at django level or at apache level. It is clear now that apache config needs to be corrected. > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Anubha Dadhich >wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Lakshman Prasad > >wrote: > > > > > If I understand what you are saying, > > > > > > You have 2 different projects in django, (in different repos) and you > > don't > > > want to have user logged in, in each site. > > > > > > > They are in the same repository. Yes we do not want user to log in at > both > > the places. > > > > > > > > The *simplest* way to solve this is to configure the > django.contrib.auth > > of > > > both the projects to use the same database. - And yes, it is a goddamn > > > database. Any number of separate projects can open connections to it. > > > > > > > Yes the two projects are sharing the same database. > > > > > > > Details about using multiple databases in projects can be found in the > > > documentation: > > > > > > > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > > > > > < > > > > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > > >Essentially > > > you will need to define the routers and for this case, the router is > just > > a > > > lambda that gives the user database if the app is django.contrib.auth. > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that I do not understand how to make apache redirect > > requests > > to their respective projects. > > > > Say the projects, project1 and project2, have their respective urls.py > > file. > > > > When the url is www.test.com/account/login -- the request should be > > redirected to project1, because only the urls file in the project1 knows > > how > > to resolve it. > > > > as the url changes to www.test.com/profile -- the request should be > > redirected to project2. (say profile requires user to be authenticated, > > then > > as you and siddharta mentioned that user authentication is taken care by > > django.contrib.auth backend and the two projects are already sharing the > > same database, there should not be any problem in passing the > user_context > > between the two projects). > > > > I need some links which will help me configure apache in the desired way. > > That will help a great deal. > > > > > > Thanks all. > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From abpillai at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 08:06:17 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 12:36:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Object Oriented Python - Advice on books In-Reply-To: <1291197266.2137.445.camel@localhost> References: <87r5e1ygmg.fsf@gmail.com> <1291197266.2137.445.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:24 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > > also python in a nutshell. btw, I have been using classes for a long > time - got into it with wxPython - but does using classes mean one is > doing OOP? > Fond memories of this book. Was the first and only Python book I ever bought. I learned most of my Python from this apart from the online tutorial. A couple of years later, realized this is supposed to be a "heavy" book and not meant for starters. But then I had already started with this, so never felt it that way... :) > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From abpillai at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 08:11:37 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 12:41:37 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:33 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > On Wed, Dec 01 2010, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > > > [...] > > > 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the > > refactoring book'. > > I just realized that I am not a self-respecting developer after reading this. Will try to keep it that way by continuing to avoid this book... -- --Anand From abpillai at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 08:15:22 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 12:45:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Python version 2.x or 3.x In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Jins Thomas wrote: > Hi all, > > Would like to ask one more doubt regarding which version we should > concentrate, considering a newbie to python. > If your idea is to learn the language and its tools while being on cutting-edge you should start with Python 3.x. Especially if you don't plan to do any immediate projects in it that could require third-party libraries. If your idea is to learn the language to solve a problem at hand that could require third-party libraries, start with 2.6.x or 2.7.x. Most 3.x features are back-ported to either of these so you don't loose much but also can use many 3rd party stuff since they are all 2.x compatible. If someone asks me to say this in a single word, I always recommend 2.7.x. > > Cheers > Jins Thomas > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From sateeshpyper at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 06:09:41 2010 From: sateeshpyper at gmail.com (Sateesh Kumar) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 10:39:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? > I have read the book in parts and have used the some of the practices/techniques mentioned in the book during working with Java. While the focus of the book is much toward object oriented development (and it uses Java for code examples) I think some of the practices the book refers could be relevant to Python development as well. Some of the techniques(say rename method[1], parametrize method [2] etc.) are good software development practices which IMHO would be relevant across wide array of programming languages. May be a good developer could think of some of these techniques on his own or become familiar of those practices through other sources, but what the book provides a catalog of such good practices. So reading or skimming through that book and adapting some of the practices would help one to write better code. However the statement "reading the book is must for a self respecting developer" seems to me a strongly opinionated one. In case if you are looking for a refactoring library for Python take a look at Rope[3]. I have used the emacs plugin for Rope for some minor refactorings (like renaming a method) and found it useful. 1. http://www.refactoring.com/catalog/renameMethod.html 2. http://www.refactoring.com/catalog/parameterizeMethod.html 3. http://rope.sourceforge.net/ regards, sateesh From kgthegreat at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 08:36:05 2010 From: kgthegreat at gmail.com (Kumar Gaurav) Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 13:06:05 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Please quote some real time projects where industries are using Python > This could be instructive : http://stackoverflow.com/questions/415627/big-web-2-0-sites-written-in-python -- Kumar Gaurav Latest Post -- CSS and Performance http://bit.ly/css-and-performance From noufal at gmail.com Thu Dec 2 10:48:27 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 02 Dec 2010 15:18:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Django-based CMS recommendations? In-Reply-To: (Kiran Jonnalagadda's message of "Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:59:22 +0530") References: Message-ID: <87wrns4iac.fsf@gmail.com> Haven't used it myself but just in case you're short of possible candidates http://mezzanine.jupo.org/ -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From orsenthil at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 03:41:08 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 10:41:08 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> On Thu, Dec 02, 2010 at 12:41:37PM +0530, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > > > > > 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the > > > refactoring book'. > > > > > I just realized that I am not a self-respecting developer after > reading this. Wow!. You stole my sentence. Double crime on you. -- Senthil From sriramnrn at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 04:10:41 2010 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:40:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> Message-ID: It's rather disappointing when I see a nice discussion thread degenerate into taking potshots at others - especially by posts by people who otherwise contribute in very constructive ways. I'm a Thoughtworker, proud of what and how we do (including promoting better software development practices). -- Ram On 12/3/10, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Thu, Dec 02, 2010 at 12:41:37PM +0530, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: >> > >> > > 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the >> > > refactoring book'. >> > >> > >> I just realized that I am not a self-respecting developer after >> reading this. > > Wow!. You stole my sentence. Double crime on you. > > -- > Senthil > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Sent from my mobile device ================== Belenix: www.belenix.org From orsenthil at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 04:59:34 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:59:34 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> Message-ID: <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 08:40:41AM +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > It's rather disappointing when I see a nice discussion thread > degenerate into taking potshots at others - especially by posts by > people who otherwise contribute in very constructive ways. > > I'm a Thoughtworker, proud of what and how we do (including promoting > better software development practices). I agree with you. Thoughtwork is a good company which has promoted pretty nice practises and given some good software. Plus, their way of dealing with communities is amazing! I don't think anyone seriously was pointing anything wrong there. All we were concerned was using strong words against good practices that many of us follow. -- Senthil From sriramnrn at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 05:21:43 2010 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:51:43 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us follow. Also, I've long been contemplating having talks about the various practices that we follow at Thoughtworks. I think some interesting topics would be "Refactoring", "Test Driven Development", "Continuous Integration", "What does agile mean ?", "Regression testing using Distributed Test Harnesses" and any other buzzword-like terms that have always mystified us. I used to be very much against of Test Driven Development, and then had a moment of realization about how writing tests first could be viewed. For me, that meant considering "tests" to be a expression of requirements, which are then met by writing necessary and sufficient code. -- Ram On 12/3/10, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 08:40:41AM +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: >> It's rather disappointing when I see a nice discussion thread >> degenerate into taking potshots at others - especially by posts by >> people who otherwise contribute in very constructive ways. >> >> I'm a Thoughtworker, proud of what and how we do (including promoting >> better software development practices). > > I agree with you. Thoughtwork is a good company which has promoted > pretty nice practises and given some good software. Plus, their way > of dealing with communities is amazing! I don't think anyone seriously > was pointing anything wrong there. > > All we were concerned was using strong words against good practices > that many of us follow. > > -- > Senthil > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Sent from my mobile device ================== Belenix: www.belenix.org From sethi.anubha at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 05:27:59 2010 From: sethi.anubha at gmail.com (Anubha Dadhich) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:57:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Lakshman Prasad wrote: > If you have 2 base urls.py, I think correspondingly, you also need 2 > settings.py and hence 2 WSGI files. > > As far as I know, each Apache virtualhost can only take 1 WSGIProcess. So > you will need 2 apache processes. - I might be wrong on this, and there > might be a better way. > > The best way, I can think of to move the request around between projects > (and corresponding apache processes) would be to use nginx as a proxy and > pass the request to an appropriate process. > Thanks a lot for this pointer. Indeed nginx was used on the live server to hide the port number to which requests are sent. > > There are many good tutorials to configure nginx to proxy apache. You > should > refer: > http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/tutorials/django-deployment-guide-ubuntu > > < > http://www.ventanazul.com/webzine/tutorials/django-deployment-guide-ubuntu > >But > I wonder why you want to have 2 urls.py and 2 settings.py *within the same > repo*. Sounds counter intuitive to me. Is there a reason you cant refactor > it into the same urls.py with includes like: > > urlpatterns = patterns('', > (r'^weblog/', include('django_website.apps.blog.urls.blog')), > (r'^documentation/', include('django_website.apps.docs.urls.docs')), > (r'^comments/', include('django.contrib.comments.urls')),) > > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Anubha Dadhich >wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 5:16 PM, Lakshman Prasad > >wrote: > > > > > If I understand what you are saying, > > > > > > You have 2 different projects in django, (in different repos) and you > > don't > > > want to have user logged in, in each site. > > > > > > > They are in the same repository. Yes we do not want user to log in at > both > > the places. > > > > > > > > The *simplest* way to solve this is to configure the > django.contrib.auth > > of > > > both the projects to use the same database. - And yes, it is a goddamn > > > database. Any number of separate projects can open connections to it. > > > > > > > Yes the two projects are sharing the same database. > > > > > > > Details about using multiple databases in projects can be found in the > > > documentation: > > > > > > > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > > > > > < > > > > > > http://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/topics/db/multi-db/#defining-your-databases > > > >Essentially > > > you will need to define the routers and for this case, the router is > just > > a > > > lambda that gives the user database if the app is django.contrib.auth. > > > > > > > > > > > The problem is that I do not understand how to make apache redirect > > requests > > to their respective projects. > > > > Say the projects, project1 and project2, have their respective urls.py > > file. > > > > When the url is www.test.com/account/login -- the request should be > > redirected to project1, because only the urls file in the project1 knows > > how > > to resolve it. > > > > as the url changes to www.test.com/profile -- the request should be > > redirected to project2. (say profile requires user to be authenticated, > > then > > as you and siddharta mentioned that user authentication is taken care by > > django.contrib.auth backend and the two projects are already sharing the > > same database, there should not be any problem in passing the > user_context > > between the two projects). > > > > I need some links which will help me configure apache in the desired way. > > That will help a great deal. > > > > > > Thanks all. > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From orsenthil at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 05:34:03 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 12:34:03 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 09:51:43AM +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us follow. That refactoring and that self-respect thing. The first is what many practise, and second is a strong word. :) I think, the thread got a bit digressed. You should share your practises in the conferences and it would be well received by many. Thanks, Senthil From abpillai at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 07:05:51 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:35:51 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Senthil Kumaran wrote: > On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 09:51:43AM +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > > Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us > follow. > > That refactoring and that self-respect thing. The first is what many > practise, and second is a strong word. :) > +1. Many practice "refactoring" without the "buzz" surrounding it. Code reviews, rewrites etc are things software developers do daily - it is part of their bread and butter. However "refactoring" as discussed here is a more of a standardized process using tools and approaches designed for it, with some little buzz added to the mix. Refactoring assumes that the implementation of the code is not closely tied with its interfaces. In other words, it assumes some amount of separation of concerns which will allow to modify the inner guts without changing the external behavior of the code. This may not be true with badly written or maintained systems, which is why many people shudder at the thought of refactoring their code base. In such houses the thinking is, "if it works, leave it alone", an attitude that is the exact opposite of the refactor. > I think, the thread got a bit digressed. You should share your > practises in the conferences and it would be well received by many. > > Thanks, > Senthil > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From abpillai at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 07:07:39 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:37:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Sorry to follow up my post with another one, but here is an old link fro JOS related to this, which is still relevant. http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html > -- > --Anand > > > > -- --Anand From abpillai at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 07:17:38 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 11:47:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Anubha Dadhich wrote: > Hi, > > Can two django projects be made to communicate with each other and share > the same session, user_authentication etc., either at the application level > or at the production server level (say apache) > > Explaining it further - > > Say there are two django projects, with different settings file, but > sharing > the same database, can they be made to run on the same port? > > Or else, say one project is running on port aaaa and the other project is > running on port yyyy, can apache be configured in such a way that the user > does not come to know about the switch in port when a request is sent from > the url. > > i.e. say there are two requests > > i). www.test.com:aaaa/account/login -- project1 > ii). www.test.com:yyyy/profile -- project2 > > can there be any configuration setting so that the user does not have to > provide the port number explicitly to tell apache that the two requests are > actually to two different projects and can simply send the request as > > i) www.test.com/account/login -- project1 > ii) www.test.com/profile -- project2 > > Just wanted to confirm if such a setting is possible or not. If yes, then > plz provide some information on how to achieve this. > > This is out of context to the question posted, but just wanted to point out this as a very GOOD example of how to make a post asking for help in forums like this. A bane of programming forums such as ours is badly posted questions, of which we get our good share every month. I don't remember the number of times I posted ESR's "how to ask questions the smart way" in this list as reply to badly posted questions. This is a very good illustration of posting questions the smarter way. +1 > > -- > Anubha Dadhich > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From rmathews at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 07:30:30 2010 From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 12:00:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:35, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > However "refactoring" as discussed > ?here is a more of a standardized process using tools and approaches > ?designed for it, with some little buzz added to the mix. > "Refactoring" might have devolved into that now, but I don't think that's what Fowler was pushing. > ?Refactoring assumes that the implementation of the code is not > ?closely tied with its interfaces. In other words, it assumes some amount > ?of separation of concerns which will allow to modify the inner guts > ?without changing the external behavior of the code. > To be pedantic, refactoring doesn't assume that, that's how it is defined. If you're changing the external behaviour then it isn't refactoring that you're doing. It's nice that Fowler named the process, and showed some of the different refactorings possible, but it'd be nice to be careful of what we use that word to describe. -- http://about.me/rosh From lorddaemon at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 09:00:47 2010 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:30:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: > > This may not > be true with badly written or maintained systems, which is why > many people shudder at the thought of refactoring their code base. > In such houses the thinking is, "if it works, leave it alone", an attitude > that is the exact opposite of the refactor. > Actually, the book is pretty good at helping out with this as well. There's this other book that I keep meaning to read called 'Working Effectively with Legacy Code' that has been recommended to me quite strongly by several people I respect. > > 'No self respecting developer could function without having read the > > > refactoring book'. > > > > > I just realized that I am not a self-respecting developer after reading > this. > Will try to keep it that way by continuing to avoid this book... > I'm more worried that a perfectly good book and certain engineering practices that I find hugely useful will be ignored either because of sweeping, religious statements by zealots, or because a bunch of people have made an industry creating buzzwords around otherwise sensible practices like TDD, refactoring, or yes, even Agile. Just because they're buzzwords doesn't mean they're useless. I'm sure 'goto free code' was once looked at in a similar manner in the 1960s, but today everybody accepts that philosophy. Best, Sidu. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Senthil Kumaran >wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 03, 2010 at 09:51:43AM +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > > > Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us > > follow. > > > > That refactoring and that self-respect thing. The first is what many > > practise, and second is a strong word. :) > > > > +1. Many practice "refactoring" without the "buzz" surrounding it. > Code reviews, rewrites etc are things software developers do daily > - it is part of their bread and butter. However "refactoring" as discussed > here is a more of a standardized process using tools and approaches > designed for it, with some little buzz added to the mix. > > Refactoring assumes that the implementation of the code is not > closely tied with its interfaces. In other words, it assumes some amount > of separation of concerns which will allow to modify the inner guts > without changing the external behavior of the code. This may not > be true with badly written or maintained systems, which is why > many people shudder at the thought of refactoring their code base. > In such houses the thinking is, "if it works, leave it alone", an attitude > that is the exact opposite of the refactor. > > > > I think, the thread got a bit digressed. You should share your > > practises in the conferences and it would be well received by many. > > > > Thanks, > > Senthil > > _______________________________________________ > > BangPypers mailing list > > BangPypers at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > > > > > > -- > --Anand > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > From lawgon at au-kbc.org Fri Dec 3 10:14:47 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:44:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: <1291367687.2599.11.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 09:51 +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us > follow. http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.ilugc/66657 -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From lawgon at au-kbc.org Fri Dec 3 10:20:52 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 14:50:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: <1291368052.2599.12.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 11:37 +0530, Anand Balachandran Pillai wrote: > Sorry to follow up my post with another one, but here is an old link > fro > JOS related to this, which is still relevant. > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html no need to apologise - I was just about to rewrite some software I wrote (which works) - but was feeling lazy. Now I can continue to laze around. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From abpillai at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 11:33:42 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 16:03:42 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291367687.2599.11.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <1291367687.2599.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 09:51 +0530, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > > Please point me to any use of strong words against of what many of us > > follow. > > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.ilugc/66657 > Kenneth, you quoted somewhat out of context! If you had also quoted the 3 lines above the one we are discussing, I wouldn't even have bothered to reply in the first place : ) > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From steve at lonetwin.net Fri Dec 3 11:04:17 2010 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 15:34:17 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Hi, Just a note in sideways, about my own experience and opinion on this topic ... On 12/01/2010 04:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? I've been fortunate enough to work with people who employ one or more of these 'good programming', 'agile' methods to become efficient in the day-to-day 'engineering practice' of programming (as opposed to talking about it like high nose evolved computer science or using it in a throw away manner for 1 project for the sake of curiosity / demonstration). So, I have learned to understand, appreciate and use things like TDD, CI and perform refactoring without ever reading one book on these things. I am sure, I'll better understand them if I did read the books but at the end of the day unless you use these techniques in your regular day-to-day work without employing short-cuts when they become inconvenient, it really just is mental masturbation. Coming to refactoring in particular, in the terms that Fowler defines it, I think it is just formalization of common sense that most good programmers(*) already are intuitively aware of. I would risk a guess that the person in this thread who asserted "A self respecting developer will NOT need to refactor his code in the first place." is just as inexperienced in 'real world' projects as the original person who said "No self respecting developer could function without having read the refactoring book" -- either of these views are extremely sweeping generalizations about the practice of programming. They are typical of people who've not faced fast approaching deadlines, while dealing with large code bases with evolving requirements, eventually led by PHBs or clueless customers. Most good engineering practices get thrown out of the window under pressure. The advantage of some of these techniques is to minimize the effect of this reality (for eg: using TDD and CI) and also make it easier get back on track once the pressure eases (for eg: using refactoring) <-- real world experience speaking ! cheers, - steve -- random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ From noufal at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 15:03:09 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:33:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: (Sriram Narayanan's message of "Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:40:41 +0530") References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> Message-ID: <87mxont0ma.fsf@gmail.com> On Fri, Dec 03 2010, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > It's rather disappointing when I see a nice discussion thread > degenerate into taking potshots at others - especially by posts by > people who otherwise contribute in very constructive ways. > > I'm a Thoughtworker, proud of what and how we do (including promoting > better software development practices). More power to you man (and to TW in general). The disagreement here is with delivery rather than content. If someone in their evangelistic zeals says something like No self respecting developer could function without having read the refactoring book. There are going to be retorts that are equally harsh. There are plently of good pieces of software out there that don't have tests and were not developed with agile practices in mind. [...] -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From noufal at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 15:10:16 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:40:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: (Sidu Ponnappa's message of "Fri, 3 Dec 2010 13:30:47 +0530") References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <8762vd8u9q.fsf@gmail.com> <20101203024108.GA1757@rubuntu> <20101203035934.GA2284@rubuntu> <20101203043403.GB2284@rubuntu> Message-ID: <878w07t0af.fsf@gmail.com> On Fri, Dec 03 2010, Sidu Ponnappa wrote: [...] > I'm more worried that a perfectly good book and certain engineering > practices that I find hugely useful will be ignored either because of > sweeping, religious statements by zealots, or because a bunch of > people have made an industry creating buzzwords around otherwise > sensible practices like TDD, refactoring, or yes, even Agile. Just > because they're buzzwords doesn't mean they're useless. I'm sure 'goto > free code' was once looked at in a similar manner in the 1960s, but > today everybody accepts that philosophy. [...] Very valid. Zealotry hurts good causes badly. -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From noufal at gmail.com Fri Dec 3 15:25:11 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 19:55:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Ann] Registration for PyCon 2011 now open Message-ID: <87pqtjrl14.fsf@gmail.com> Just in case anyone missed it. http://us.pycon.org/2011/blog/2010/12/01/registration-pycon-now-open/ -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From steve at lonetwin.net Fri Dec 3 15:49:34 2010 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 20:19:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] What kind of applications can we develop with Python In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CF9037E.4080205@lonetwin.net> Hi, On 12/01/2010 05:22 PM, sreedhar ambati wrote: > Hi > > I am new to Python. > I am from PHP,Microsoft .net background. > Can you tell me the real power behind Python language? The real power of python comes from it's simplicity. It is a easy to learn, easy to read and easy to program in language. It is great at providing powerful programming constructs in a beautifully simple manner. While other languages might seem simpler, they won't offer the same power whereas those that might be powerful don't match python's simplicity. > What kind of applications we can develop? All kinds of applications. Since it is a general purpose language with a rich standard library and also tons of freely available third party libraries. > Please quote some real time projects where industries are using Python > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Python_software you might recognize some of the names under 'Commercial uses' there ;-) and http://wiki.python.org/moin/OrganizationsUsingPython cheers, - steve -- random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ From lawgon at au-kbc.org Fri Dec 3 11:49:53 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2010 16:19:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: <1291373393.2599.39.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 15:34 +0530, steve wrote: > Most good engineering practices get thrown out of the window under > pressure. this is the real world. Monkey patching, hacks, repeating the same code in 10 different places with minor changes - all this and more happens when the deadline is yesterday and the client is screaming and tearing out his hair. The other day a developer produced some code in production which did only half the job. Reason? He did not want to violate the DRY principle! Customer does not give an rf about DRY - he wants results and correct results in production. After all the hue and cry dies down, it makes good sense to go back to the code and slowly remove all the repetitive parts, make the hacks look good and redo the monkey patching - if you have time. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From noufal at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 06:51:47 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 11:21:47 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291373393.2599.39.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <1291373393.2599.39.camel@localhost> Message-ID: Your last point about fixing things and cleaning it up (refactoring?) becomes easy and possible if good engineering practices were followed in the first place. Repeating the same mistakes again and increasing your workload is not very smart. On 12/3/10, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > On Fri, 2010-12-03 at 15:34 +0530, steve wrote: >> Most good engineering practices get thrown out of the window under >> pressure. > > this is the real world. Monkey patching, hacks, repeating the same code > in 10 different places with minor changes - all this and more happens > when the deadline is yesterday and the client is screaming and tearing > out his hair. The other day a developer produced some code in production > which did only half the job. Reason? He did not want to violate the DRY > principle! Customer does not give an rf about DRY - he wants results and > correct results in production. After all the hue and cry dies down, it > makes good sense to go back to the code and slowly remove all the > repetitive parts, make the hacks look good and redo the monkey patching > - if you have time. > -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From santrajan at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 13:06:30 2010 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 17:36:30 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: My 2 cents on this subject. I think the problem of differing viewpoints is mainly due to the fact that there are two kinds of software development. 1) Software product development 2) Bespoke software development. Let us look at software product development, and let us look at all the top open source software development projects like linux, apache, mozilla etc etc. I have not seen refactoring as described by the book used by any of the open source software products. I would like to know if any one can show me refactoring used in software product development. Refactoring may be useful in cases where bespoke development is done using inexperienced programmers, in which case you will of course have to do refactoring. Also I would like to say that I am not trying to be harsh on any viewpoint and my apologies if I came through that way. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:34 PM, steve wrote: > Hi, > > Just a note in sideways, about my own experience and opinion on this topic > ... > > On 12/01/2010 04:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: >> >> hi, >> >> I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would >> like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement >> that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read >> the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much >> except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still >> used? or is this whole thing buzz? > > I've been fortunate enough to work with people who employ one or more of > these 'good programming', 'agile' methods to become efficient in the > day-to-day 'engineering practice' of programming (as opposed to talking > about it like high nose evolved computer science or using it in a throw away > manner for 1 project for the sake of curiosity / demonstration). > > So, I have learned to understand, appreciate and use things like TDD, CI and > perform refactoring without ever reading one book on these things. I am > sure, I'll better understand them if I did read the books but at the end of > the day unless you use these techniques in your regular day-to-day work > without employing short-cuts when they become inconvenient, it really just > is mental masturbation. > > Coming to refactoring in particular, in the terms that Fowler defines it, I > think it is just formalization of common sense that most good programmers(*) > already are intuitively aware of. I would risk a guess that the person in > this thread who asserted "A self respecting developer will NOT need to > refactor his code in the first place." is just as inexperienced in 'real > world' projects as the original person who said "No self respecting > developer could function without having read the refactoring book" -- either > of these views are extremely sweeping generalizations about the practice of > programming. They are typical of people who've not faced fast approaching > deadlines, while dealing with large code bases with evolving requirements, > eventually led by PHBs or clueless customers. > > Most good engineering practices get thrown out of the window under pressure. > The advantage of some of these techniques is to minimize the effect of this > reality (for eg: using TDD and CI) and also make it easier get back on track > once the pressure eases (for eg: using refactoring) <-- real world > experience speaking ! > > cheers, > - steve > > -- > random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ > what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://santrajan.blogspot.com From rmathews at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 14:36:31 2010 From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 19:06:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291373393.2599.39.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <1291373393.2599.39.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 16:19, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > After all the hue and cry dies down, it > makes good sense to go back to the code and slowly remove all the > repetitive parts, make the hacks look good and redo the monkey patching > - if you have time. Since this is a thread discussing Fowler's work, it's appropriate to point to what he has to say on this topic: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html -- http://about.me/rosh From rmathews at gmail.com Sat Dec 4 14:41:11 2010 From: rmathews at gmail.com (Roshan Mathews) Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 19:11:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 17:36, Santosh Rajan wrote: > I have not seen refactoring as described by the book > used by any of the open source software products. I would like to know > if any one can show me refactoring used in software product > development. http://www.google.com/search?q=linux+kernal+refactoring http://www.google.com/search?q=mozilla+refactoring seem to throw up quite a lot of links. I'd find it hard to believe that there exist any live codebases of high quality that aren't refactored on an ongoing basis. -- http://about.me/rosh From siddharta.lists at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 09:53:27 2010 From: siddharta.lists at gmail.com (Siddharta G) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 14:23:27 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Can two django projects be made to communicate to each other In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Your apache config can be something like this SetHandler python-program PythonHandler django_project_1_frontend PythonInterpreter django_project_1 PythonOption django.root /path1 SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE apps.settings PythonDebug On PythonPath "['C:/Projects/toolsforagile_common/Scripts'] + sys.path" SetOutputFilter DEFLATE SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI \ \.(?:gif|jpe?g|png)$ no-gzip dont-vary SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI \ \.(?:exe|t?gz|zip|gz2|sit|rar)$ no-gzip dont-vary SetHandler python-program PythonHandler django_project_2_frontend PythonInterpreter django_project_2 PythonOption django.root /path2 SetEnv DJANGO_SETTINGS_MODULE apps.settings PythonDebug On PythonPath "['C:/Projects/toolsforagile_common/Scripts'] + sys.path" SetOutputFilter DEFLATE SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI \ \.(?:gif|jpe?g|png)$ no-gzip dont-vary SetEnvIfNoCase Request_URI \ \.(?:exe|t?gz|zip|gz2|sit|rar)$ no-gzip dont-vary This will redirect /path1 requests to django_project_1_frontend.py and /path2 to django_project_2_frontend.py The PythonInterpreter lines ensure that Apache will create two separate python instances for each project. The django_project_x_frontend.py you will need to hook up to the django project, like this import site site.addsitedir("... ") site.addsitedir("... ") from django.core.handlers.modpython import handler The way we have configured the layout is that each project is running in its own virtual environment (using virtualenv). So the site.addsitedir lines will add the virtualenv paths to before calling the django mod_python handler. This way both projects can have their own libraries and site-packages and won't interfere with each other. -- Siddharta From siddharta.lists at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 10:33:07 2010 From: siddharta.lists at gmail.com (Siddharta G) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 15:03:07 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: Refactoring just means changing the internals without adding/removing functionality. The book is good, but refactoring can be applied in many other contexts too. It has been happening long before the book came out. The big insight in the book is not the refactoring patterns themselves. The big insight is that its possible to make fairly large changes using small steps where the application does not break at any of the intermediate steps. It changes your thinking from I need to rewrite & retest to go from A -> B, now its like how can I go there in small steps without breaking anything in the middle. Unless you plan to keep rewriting your app everything a change comes along, I do agree that a self respecting developer needs to know refactoring (the concept, not the book) Refactoring myths - - If I write perfect code the first time, then I don't need to refactor: Wrong! Requirements change, and then your perfect code is no longer suitable, so you'll have to go in and change the design before you can implement new functionality. Thats refactoring. - Refactoring means cleaning up bad code: Wrong! See above. - Refactoring is only for OO code: Wrong! You can refactor anything, even imperative of functional programs. I have used refactoring (including some patterns from the book) on C programs. - "I have not seen refactoring used on open source projects": Wrong! At least on the django project refactoring occurs _very often_ to support new functionality. When multiple database support was introduced, the ORM design (which only supported single database) was refactored without changing existing functionality. After that the multi-database feature was added. Django has a policy of having unit tests for _all_ functionality, just to support easy refactoring. I'm pretty sure it happens in all large projects. - Refactoring is only for code. Wrong! We recently released a second product which sits along with our first one, and it required completely changing the architecture of the first one - we refactored the architecture to support the new product over 3 months deploying small changes at a time. Architecture changes, server configurations, database structure - everything was changed making small changes every week on a running production system with no downtime - thats refactoring too. -- Siddharta From abpillai at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 11:37:31 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 16:07:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Siddharta G wrote: > Refactoring just means changing the internals without adding/removing > functionality. The book is good, but refactoring can be applied in many > other contexts too. It has been happening long before the book came out. > The > big insight in the book is not the refactoring patterns themselves. The big > insight is that its possible to make fairly large changes using small steps > where the application does not break at any of the intermediate steps. It > changes your thinking from I need to rewrite & retest to go from A -> B, > now > its like how can I go there in small steps without breaking anything in the > middle. > > Unless you plan to keep rewriting your app everything a change comes along, > I do agree that a self respecting developer needs to know refactoring (the > concept, not the book) > > Refactoring myths - > > - If I write perfect code the first time, then I don't need to refactor: > Wrong! Requirements change, and then your perfect code is no longer > suitable, so you'll have to go in and change the design before you can > implement new functionality. Thats refactoring. > > - Refactoring means cleaning up bad code: Wrong! See above. > > - Refactoring is only for OO code: Wrong! You can refactor anything, even > imperative of functional programs. I have used refactoring (including some > patterns from the book) on C programs. > > - "I have not seen refactoring used on open source projects": Wrong! At > least on the django project refactoring occurs _very often_ to support new > functionality. When multiple database support was introduced, the ORM > design > (which only supported single database) was refactored without changing > existing functionality. After that the multi-database feature was added. > Django has a policy of having unit tests for _all_ functionality, just to > support easy refactoring. I'm pretty sure it happens in all large projects. > > - Refactoring is only for code. Wrong! We recently released a second > product > which sits along with our first one, and it required completely changing > the > architecture of the first one - we refactored the architecture to support > the new product over 3 months deploying small changes at a time. > Architecture changes, server configurations, database structure - > everything > was changed making small changes every week on a running production system > with no downtime - thats refactoring too. > That is re-architecting or re-designing depending on which side of the conference table you are - not re-factoring. > > -- > Siddharta > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From siddharta.lists at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 12:23:00 2010 From: siddharta.lists at gmail.com (Siddharta G) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 16:53:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > That is re-architecting or re-designing depending on which side of the > conference table you are - not re-factoring. > > Err... Refactoring _is_ redesigning, that is the whole purpose of refactoring. The difference is that traditional rearchitecting/redesiging is taking down the existing design and rewriting the application with a new design. Refactoring is doing it in such a way that you can go from A -> B in small steps without breaking the app at any point. -- Siddharta From abpillai at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 12:49:34 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Sun, 5 Dec 2010 17:19:34 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Siddharta G wrote: > On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > That is re-architecting or re-designing depending on which side of the > > conference table you are - not re-factoring. > > > > > Err... Refactoring _is_ redesigning, that is the whole purpose of > refactoring. > > The difference is that traditional rearchitecting/redesiging is taking down > the existing design and rewriting the application with a new design. > Refactoring is doing it in such a way that you can go from A -> B in small > steps without breaking the app at any point. > I understand the difference. You mentioned "Architecture changes" which doesn't belong to re-factoring. In a way, the whole "re-writing vs re-factoring" thing is a bit blown-up since the answer to the most important question "Who throws away an entire piece of code and re-writes it from scratch" is "Not many", unless the code is highly experimental, a prototype, is a personal project (with not many users), or has hit the critical limit of usability and extensibility in its current state, so that it has to be re-written from scratch. So, most of us do "re-factoring" or "whatever you may want to call it", almost routinely, whether it is at a code, design or architectural level. > -- > Siddharta > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From steve at lonetwin.net Sun Dec 5 19:09:31 2010 From: steve at lonetwin.net (steve) Date: Sun, 05 Dec 2010 23:39:31 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: <4CFBD55B.3090207@lonetwin.net> I had sent this reply below earlier ...not sure why it didn't go thru' ...anyways, enough has already been said about this, however, since I already wrote this reply below, I thought I might as well make my point ... Hi Santosh, On 12/04/2010 05:36 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: > My 2 cents on this subject. I think the problem of differing > viewpoints is mainly due to the fact that there are two kinds of > software development. > > 1) Software product development > 2) Bespoke software development. > > Let us look at software product development, and let us look at all > the top open source software development projects like linux, apache, > mozilla etc etc. I have not seen refactoring as described by the book > used by any of the open source software products. I would like to know > if any one can show me refactoring used in software product > development. > The very nature of Open Source Software development model is refactoring ! It isn't called that but that's what it is. Try to describe the process of FOSS development and then the way code is affected by refactoring and you would see the similarities. The only difference is in FOSS projects this is done by separate individuals in an unplanned manner -- the net effect from the /code's/ perspective though is that is being refactored. I'd go as far as saying that patches which refactor existing code in mature FOSS products are as at least the same in number as those that introduce new features. cheers, - steve -- random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ From sriramnrn at gmail.com Sun Dec 5 19:36:39 2010 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 00:06:39 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFBD55B.3090207@lonetwin.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFBD55B.3090207@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 11:39 PM, steve wrote: > I had sent this reply below earlier ...not sure why it didn't go thru' > ...anyways, enough has already been said about this, however, since I > already wrote this reply below, I thought I might as well make my point ... > > Hi Santosh, > > On 12/04/2010 05:36 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote: >> >> My 2 cents on this subject. I think the problem of differing >> viewpoints is mainly due to the fact that there are two kinds of >> software development. >> >> 1) Software product development >> 2) Bespoke software development. >> >> Let us look at software product development, and let us look at all >> the top open source software development projects like linux, apache, >> mozilla etc etc. I have not seen refactoring as described by the book >> used by any of the open source software products. I would like to know >> if any one can show me refactoring used in software product >> development. >> > > The very nature of Open Source Software development model is refactoring ! > It isn't called that but that's what it is. Try to describe the process of > FOSS development and then the way code is affected by refactoring and you > would see the similarities. The only difference is in FOSS projects this is > done by separate individuals in an unplanned manner -- the net effect from > the /code's/ perspective though is that is being refactored. I'd go as far > as saying that patches which refactor existing code in mature FOSS products > are as at least the same in number as those that introduce new features. My thoughts (not for or against, but just to add to this thread): - the license of the code doesn't really matter. There are lots of software that we've contributed to as well as developed at Thoughtworks, and we give the same level of attention (including refactoring, testing, CI, etc) regardless of the license. This is true of other companies, and individuals as well. - refactoring need not become a bad word just because some book documents various known refactoring techniques. Martin Fowler is a very, very humble person. I spent the past three days with him hearing him talk to various Thoughtworkers in Bangalore, and he's very honest about giving credit where it's due. If you read his Refactoring book, he's very clear there that these are various techniques that he's observed everyone around him use, and he's simply explained a number of them in very layman terms so that all can understand these together. Let's the case of something like "Extract Method". It's very likely that over a period of time, a developer would notice that a method could be spilt up into smaller logical private methods so that the intent is clear to the reader as well as more maintainable. This technique may be given the name "Extract Method". And this technique has been applied by all programmers in so many languages. Applying a refactoring does not make us any less a programmer, and this activity need not become an insult. Reading a book that documents various such techniques could be considered a nice refresher even. Speaking about myself, I wouldn't stay away from a book just because someone declared that if one has self-respect, one would read that book. Such a statement need not be an insult. Finally, the loss (in terms of missed opportunity) would be one's own. Refactoring could be applied to any language, regardless of whether it's Object Oriented or not. > > cheers, > - steve > > -- > random spiel: http://lonetwin.net/ > what i'm stumbling into: http://lonetwin.stumbleupon.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- ================== Belenix: www.belenix.org From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon Dec 6 05:40:53 2010 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:10:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> [snip] > [dubious aside: remember this one? Please note that there is no deeper meaning to be read into the fact that I mistakenly pasted the quote twice. -Taj. From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon Dec 6 05:36:46 2010 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:06:46 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> Message-ID: <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> On 12/4/2010 5:36 PM, Santosh Rajan wrote [snip] > Let us look at software product development, and let us look at all > the top open source software development projects like linux, apache, > mozilla etc etc. I have not seen refactoring as described by the book > used by any of the open source software products. I would like to know > if any one can show me refactoring used in software product > development. > This reminds me of the kind of discussion I used to hear when the GoF Design Patterns book was published. Lacking experience, I was in awe of the book since it codified so much practice that I could look at and go THAT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. It took years and a lot of experience to understand that this was just a compendium of best practices that many OOP programmers had been applying for decades, taking them so much for granted that they hadn't even bothered to give them names. Unfortunately there were too many people who never saw past it being some sort of bible, so (as an example) you'd have people drop by KDE dev mailing lists 5-6 years later complaining that the KDE libraries were poorly designed because they couldn't go through the code and identify the design patterns by name. This is a pattern that I've seen repeated often over the last twenty years (the Java world is particularly guilty of it). There is unquestionable value to the classification and codification of best practices in software engineering, which has a real paucity of good references of this kind, but it must be kept in perspective of what people are doing. Unfortunately, compared to other forms of engineering it's both more difficult and more given to fads. So what I'm saying is, it is unlikely that this book contains anything that any sufficiently large and long-lived software project (FOSS or otherwise) is not already doing, because it is critical to their success. You will just have to work a little harder to identify it because they may not have bought into your taxonomy of refactoring terms. [dubious aside: remember this one? There once was a master programmer who wrote unstructured programs. A novice programmer, seeking to imitate him, also began to write unstructured programs. When the novice asked the master to evaluate his progress, the master criticized him for writing unstructured programs, saying, ``What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the novice. You must understand the Tao before transcending structure.''There once was a master programmer who wrote unstructured programs. A novice programmer, seeking to imitate him, also began to write unstructured programs. When the novice asked the master to evaluate his progress, the master criticized him for writing unstructured programs, saying, ``What is appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the novice. You must understand the Tao before transcending structure.''] -Taj. From siddharta.lists at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 06:19:57 2010 From: siddharta.lists at gmail.com (Siddharta G) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 10:49:57 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: Nice quote. You hit the main point: Refactoring has always been done. Everyone does it. The book just gives a taxonomy to common refactorings. For what its worth, I think a taxonomy is very important. It is so much easier to communicate a design by saying this is a factory, that object is an observer to the model and so on. The same way its convenient to say first extract method, then pull up method and everyone understands what you are talking about. But whether you know the names or not, it is important to know how to go from design A to design B in small steps, without breaking the application in between. A typical refactoring step takes less than an hour (some can be as low as a few minutes). You can do a refactoring, commit, do a refactoring, commit and the application is always deployable. -- Siddharta From b.ghose at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 06:27:44 2010 From: b.ghose at gmail.com (Baishampayan Ghose) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 10:57:44 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: > [dubious aside: remember this one? > > There once was a master programmer who wrote unstructured programs. A novice > programmer, seeking to imitate him, also began to write unstructured > programs. When the novice asked the master to evaluate his progress, the > master criticized him for writing unstructured programs, saying, ``What is > appropriate for the master is not appropriate for the novice. You must > understand the Tao before transcending structure. http://www.canonical.org/~kragen/tao-of-programming.html for more koans like the one above. Regards, BG -- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose at gmail.com From sriramnrn at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 06:55:26 2010 From: sriramnrn at gmail.com (Sriram Narayanan) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:25:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: I sure hope that we don't dismiss the reading of such books just because "every experienced programmer knows about refactoring". -- Sriram On 12/6/10, Siddharta G wrote: > Nice quote. > > You hit the main point: Refactoring has always been done. Everyone does it. > The book just gives a taxonomy to common refactorings. > > For what its worth, I think a taxonomy is very important. It is so much > easier to communicate a design by saying this is a factory, that object is > an observer to the model and so on. The same way its convenient to say first > extract method, then pull up method and everyone understands what you are > talking about. > > But whether you know the names or not, it is important to know how to go > from design A to design B in small steps, without breaking the application > in between. A typical refactoring step takes less than an hour (some can be > as low as a few minutes). You can do a refactoring, commit, do a > refactoring, commit and the application is always deployable. > > -- Siddharta > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Sent from my mobile device ================== Belenix: www.belenix.org From gora at mimirtech.com Mon Dec 6 07:14:16 2010 From: gora at mimirtech.com (Gora Mohanty) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 11:44:16 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > [snip] >> >> [dubious aside: remember this one? > > Please note that there is no deeper meaning to be read into the fact that I > mistakenly pasted the quote twice. [...] Man, and here was I thinking that you were killing two birds with one stone: "To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion". Regards, Gora From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon Dec 6 09:01:52 2010 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 13:31:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <4CFC9870.20803@sirtaj.net> On 12/6/2010 11:25 AM, Sriram Narayanan wrote: > I sure hope that we don't dismiss the reading of such books just > because "every experienced programmer knows about refactoring". I apologize if I gave that impression. I think books like these provide programmers with a head start on techniques and tools that they would otherwise have to spend years gathering from hands-on experience, usually from working with more experienced programmers. My point was that it is important to keep an open mind, to be able to recognize when they are being applied by people who may not share the same lexicon. The shared terms are important, but they are rarely as ubiquitous as, say, "cantilever" would be amongst civil engineers. This is a different problem. -Taj. From sirtaj at sirtaj.net Mon Dec 6 09:45:49 2010 From: sirtaj at sirtaj.net (Sirtaj Singh Kang) Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2010 14:15:49 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <4CFCA2BD.9010305@sirtaj.net> On 12/6/2010 11:44 AM, Gora Mohanty wrote: > Man, and here was I thinking that you were killing two birds with one > stone: "To understand recursion, one must first understand recursion". That's exactly the one I thought about, and figured I'd better clarify before someone accused me of being arrogant enough to mess with the sacred koans. -Taj. From dhananjay.nene at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 14:43:03 2010 From: dhananjay.nene at gmail.com (Dhananjay Nene) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 19:13:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > I know that this has cropped up in a parallel thread, but anyway I would > like a new thread on this. In a LUG list a ruby guy made a statement > that 'No self respecting developer could function without having read > the refactoring book'. How relevant is this to python? I do not see much > except years ago something called bicycle repair man - is that still > used? or is this whole thing buzz? > This thread seems to have gone all over the place. So I would add my thoughts on the original question and slink away. Refactoring is often performed by most developers independently of whether or not they have read the book. Yes a self respecting developer can function without reading the refactoring book. Yes the self respecting developer just might develop a little bit more of self respect if he read the refactoring book. Restricting to my own experience in java and python a. I used to refactor like crazy in java. I tend to do it less often in python. b. The likely reason is that I find eclipse refactoring capabilities in java very very strong. OTOH, with python automated refactoring, one can never be too sure. c. Generally speaking in java, I've found myself refactoring - in python I've found myself rewriting. Should I need to refactor, I usually rearrange the code to decompose it better at a higher level, and then rewrite the lower level functions entirely. Part of the reason why I find myself doing that would be that in most cases my python functions are quite small - so rewriting them is often no big deal. d. Refactoring without having test cases is a strong test for bravery. Usually I classify myself as timid in such situations and either write some tests or back off. Dhananjay -- > regards > Kenneth Gonsalves > > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- -------------------------------------------------------- blog: http://blog.dhananjaynene.com twitter: http://twitter.com/dnene From lorddaemon at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 14:49:22 2010 From: lorddaemon at gmail.com (Sidu Ponnappa) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 19:19:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> Message-ID: > > d. Refactoring without having test cases is a strong test for bravery. > Usually I classify myself as timid in such situations and either write some > tests or back off. > Absolutely. I'd put myself into the same category. From vijay750 at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 17:11:45 2010 From: vijay750 at gmail.com (Vijay Ramachandran) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 21:41:45 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Refactoring Message-ID: On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to follow up my post with another one, but here is an old link fro > JOS related to this, which is still relevant. > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html > > > This post talks about completely throwing away the old code base - rewriting - and not refactoring. The former is typically motivated by the universal disdain one feels about inherited code and a certain amount of hubris, the second is motivated by pragmatism, and a need to change the code base to make it more maintainable and extensible. Two completely different things! cheers, Vijay -- http://www.wisdomtap.in/ - find the right products to buy! From abpillai at gmail.com Mon Dec 6 18:13:54 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2010 22:43:54 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Refactoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Vijay Ramachandran wrote: > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > > > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry to follow up my post with another one, but here is an old link fro > > JOS related to this, which is still relevant. > > > > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html > > > > > > > This post talks about completely throwing away the old code base - > rewriting > - and not refactoring. The former is typically motivated by the universal > disdain one feels about inherited code and a certain amount of hubris, the > second is motivated by pragmatism, and a need to change the code base to > make it more maintainable and extensible. Two completely different things! > Exactly. What I was trying to say is, refactor as much as possible and only throw away and rewrite in the absolutely worst case scenario which is what the article also illustrates with popular examples of the 90s. The moot point is that very few people actually throw away and rewrite, almost never in the open source world. Open source is equivalent to iterative refactoring in a way. > cheers, > Vijay > > -- > http://www.wisdomtap.in/ - find the right products to buy! > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From lawgon at au-kbc.org Tue Dec 7 06:44:09 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2010 11:14:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] refactoring In-Reply-To: <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> References: <1291201409.2137.459.camel@localhost> <4CF8C0A1.30802@lonetwin.net> <4CFC685E.1030701@sirtaj.net> <4CFC6955.90404@sirtaj.net> Message-ID: <1291700649.2233.14.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2010-12-06 at 10:10 +0530, Sirtaj Singh Kang wrote: > > [dubious aside: remember this one? > > Please note that there is no deeper meaning to be read into the fact > that I mistakenly pasted the quote twice. two hours of wasted time trying to figure out if you had refactored the quote -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From lawgon at au-kbc.org Wed Dec 8 10:53:24 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2010 15:23:24 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [job] django python developers wanted Message-ID: <1291802004.2233.78.camel@localhost> hi, am looking for people competent in python/django (css, javscript is a plus). The posts are full time in Ooty. People capable of learning fast are also welcome. Salary between 0 to 40K. Please contact me offlist. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From noufal at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 10:23:22 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:53:22 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [ANN] CFP - PyCon Asia Pacific, Singapore 2011 Message-ID: <87pqtbz4dx.fsf@gmail.com> There's a lot of time for the event so if you can, please consider submitting a proposal. Singapore is a lovely place to take a vacation. :) -------------- next part -------------- -- From noufal at gmail.com Thu Dec 9 10:49:58 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:19:58 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [ANN] CFP - PyCon Asia Pacific, Singapore 2011 In-Reply-To: <87pqtbz4dx.fsf@gmail.com> (Noufal Ibrahim's message of "Thu, 09 Dec 2010 14:53:22 +0530") References: <87pqtbz4dx.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87k4jjz35l.fsf@gmail.com> Somehow, the original forward got scrubbed. I've cut/pasted here. > Hi all > > It's been some time since we last communicated. I hope this email finds > all of you keeping 'pythonic-ally' and physically well. > > On behalf of the organizing committee for PyCon APAC, I would like to > inform you that the Call for Proposals for the 2nd PyCon Asia Pacific > conference is now open (http://apac.pycon.org). The conference will > again be held in Singapore from June 9th - June 11th, 2011. > > On behalf of the Python communities in your country, pls help extend the > invitation for submission of proposals/abstracts to your local > usergroups. The submissions deadline for this CFP is March 15th, > 2011. We have improved/simplified our proposal submission for > 2011. Moving forward, we are looking for more good quality > submissions. Please refer to the web site or the attached pdf for > details. > > The best proposals/presentations will also be invited to adapt/enhance > their presentations for publication in The Python Papers Anthology > (http://pythonpapers.org/). > > You will be pleased to know that, as of now, we have confirmed the > attendance of Jacob Kaplan Moss and Dr. Prabhu Ramachandran as > keynotes. And with other notable pythonistas expected. > > We are also informing on a Call for Tutorials. Please ask potential > proposers to check the web site for details. > > Thank you and best regards, > > PyCon 2011 Organizing Committee -- ~noufal http://nibrahim.net.in From lawgon at au-kbc.org Thu Dec 9 10:56:20 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2010 15:26:20 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [ANN] CFP - PyCon Asia Pacific, Singapore 2011 In-Reply-To: <87k4jjz35l.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87pqtbz4dx.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4jjz35l.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1291888580.2233.147.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 15:19 +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > Somehow, the original forward got scrubbed. I've cut/pasted here. > > maybe your mail client forwards forwards as attachements -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From djpatra at gmail.com Mon Dec 13 07:38:25 2010 From: djpatra at gmail.com (devjyoti patra) Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 12:08:25 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Looking for Python Hackers Message-ID: Hi Friends, Beevolve (http://www.beevolve.com) is looking for Python/Django developer to join our team creating our flagship product. We are building a monitoring and analytics platform designed to help companies make sense of the clutter that we call Social Web. Beevolve, a start-up based out of India, was founded in 2008. We then participated in the iAccelerator program at IIM-Ahmedabad and have currently set up an office in Bangalore. We believe in working with the best talent, and take great steps to hire the cream of the crop. Requirements: ? Strong passion for learning. ? Experience with Python. ? Knowledge of Data-Structures and Algorithms. ? Experience using Linux/Unix. The most important qualifications for this position are having good problem solving skills, an ability to learn quickly and a willingness to pitch in wherever you are needed. Location: Bangalore Awards: ? Informal and entrepreneurial environment. ? Possibilities and incentives for learning new technologies. . Learn how you can start with your own solution. If this seems like an interesting opportunity to you, please send your resume to careers at beevolve.com or devjyoti at beevolve.com with the subject ?FES-Python/Django?. You will need to move to Bangalore to work with us. Best Regards, Devjyoti From sandipb at foss-community.com Tue Dec 14 21:21:18 2010 From: sandipb at foss-community.com (Sandip Bhattacharya) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 01:51:18 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] converting utf to octal In-Reply-To: <1290510339.2137.85.camel@localhost> References: <1290510339.2137.85.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20101214202118.GC2759@sandipb.net> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 04:35:39PM +0530, Kenneth Gonsalves wrote: > hi, > > say I have an indic (tamil) string like ????. This is actually > represented by the following: > 0x0ba8,0x0bbe,0x0ba9,0x0bcd. How can I convert the above string into > these characters - or at least into base 10 integers? Saw this old post just now. Kenneth, did you find a solution? Is there any Unicode-ignorant kind of mistake I am doing by using this? >>> ["%0x" % ord(c) for c in u"????"] ['ba8', 'bbe', 'ba9', 'bcd'] - Sandip From lawgon at au-kbc.org Wed Dec 15 07:08:53 2010 From: lawgon at au-kbc.org (Kenneth Gonsalves) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 11:38:53 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] converting utf to octal In-Reply-To: <20101214202118.GC2759@sandipb.net> References: <1290510339.2137.85.camel@localhost> <20101214202118.GC2759@sandipb.net> Message-ID: <1292393333.2264.91.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2010-12-15 at 01:51 +0530, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: > Saw this old post just now. > > Kenneth, did you find a solution? yes - I posted it. -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 17:47:11 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:17:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Trying my luck here. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Venkatraman S Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM Subject: [OT] Wikipedia To: html5-in at googlegroups.com Hi, Probably, not the right place, but does anyone have the Wikipedia dump in Bangalore?(i dont need the revisions) -V- http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/ From abpillai at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:52:12 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:22:12 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: There are quite a few projects that create wikipedia dumps. What kind of dump are you talking about... --Anand On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > Trying my luck here. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Venkatraman S > Date: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:23 PM > Subject: [OT] Wikipedia > To: html5-in at googlegroups.com > > > Hi, > > Probably, not the right place, but does anyone have the Wikipedia dump in > Bangalore?(i dont need the revisions) > > -V- > http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/ > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 18:58:40 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:28:40 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > There are quite a few projects that create wikipedia dumps. What kind > of dump are you talking about... > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download#English-language_Wikipedia I need the "pages-articles.xml.bz2" mentioned there. From abpillai at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:05:03 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:35:03 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:28 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:22 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > There are quite a few projects that create wikipedia dumps. What kind > > of dump are you talking about... > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download#English-language_Wikipedia > I need the "pages-articles.xml.bz2" mentioned there. > Well, what prevents you from downloading it ? > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From venkat83 at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:14:48 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:44:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > Well, what prevents you from downloading it ? > > I do not want to consume so much of Wikipedia's bandwidth when it can be used for serving other users. From jaganadhg at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 19:56:09 2010 From: jaganadhg at gmail.com (JAGANADH G) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:26:09 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Venkatraman S wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Well, what prevents you from downloading it ? > > > > > I do not want to consume so much of Wikipedia's bandwidth when it can be > used for serving other users. > > Do you have more than 600 GB space available ? The total volume of 7zip file is about 70 GB . Unzipping it will result around 600 GB -- ********************************** JAGANADH G http://jaganadhg.freeflux.net/blog From abpillai at gmail.com Wed Dec 15 20:56:23 2010 From: abpillai at gmail.com (Anand Balachandran Pillai) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 01:26:23 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:26 AM, JAGANADH G wrote: > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:44 PM, Venkatraman S > wrote: > > > On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:35 PM, Anand Balachandran Pillai < > > abpillai at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Well, what prevents you from downloading it ? > > > > > > > > I do not want to consume so much of Wikipedia's bandwidth when it can be > > used for serving other users. > Look at something like evopedia to create your own wikipedia dumps. http://gitorious.org/evopedia/ > > > > > > Do you have more than 600 GB space available ? > The total volume of 7zip file is about 70 GB . Unzipping it will result > around 600 GB > -- > ********************************** > JAGANADH G > http://jaganadhg.freeflux.net/blog > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- --Anand From dennis at computer.org Wed Dec 15 22:12:38 2010 From: dennis at computer.org (Dennis Varkey) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 02:42:38 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Doubt regarding using PyS60 Message-ID: Hi, As part of my mini project, i am planning to send a mini report of some extracted results via sms. I have the following doubts 1) Is it possible to send bulk sms(approx 200) from a mobile phone (symbian s60 using pys60)? 2) Usually after sending a msg, there is a delivery note from the operator. Will this delivery note interrupt the connection that is established? 3) Is there any means to use sms services like way2sms.com for this purpose PS : Basic idea of the project is to extract results of students when it is published. The extracted results are stored in a db and forwarded to students mobile number as a mini statement From venkat83 at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 03:42:11 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:12:11 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:26 AM, JAGANADH G wrote: > Do you have more than 600 GB space available ? > The total volume of 7zip file is about 70 GB . Unzipping it will result > around 600 GB > Have more than 1.5TB space. As I said, space is not an issue, i just dont want to 'download' it - prefer getting it transferred from someone. Do you have the dump? -V http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/ From anandology at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 04:00:29 2010 From: anandology at gmail.com (Anand Chitipothu) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 08:30:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] Fwd: [OT] Wikipedia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2010/12/16 Venkatraman S : > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:26 AM, JAGANADH G wrote: > >> Do you have more than 600 GB space available ? >> The total volume of 7zip file is about 70 GB . Unzipping it will result >> around 600 GB >> > > Have more than 1.5TB space. > As I said, space is not an issue, i just dont want to 'download' it - prefer > getting it transferred from someone. > Do you have the dump? You can download a slightly old dump from archive.org. http://www.archive.org/details/enwiki_20100408 archive.org has infinite of bandwidth. You can download from there without worries. Anand From noufal at gmail.com Thu Dec 16 13:33:59 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 18:03:59 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [Job] Fwd: [python-kerala] Python/Django Opportunity In-Reply-To: (anish k.'s message of "Thu, 16 Dec 2010 00:34:15 -0800 (PST)") References: Message-ID: <87tyidvqvc.fsf@gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 16 2010, anish k wrote: > Greetings! >> >> Senior Python resources on long term Assignment to be based out of >> Bangalore. >> >> Work Location - Bangalore >> Reporting - Direct Interaction with the US Based Client >> Compensation - Not a constraint. >> Academics - Post Graduation, Mandatory >> Communication - Excellent - Written and Verbal.. >> >> Skills - Python, Django, Javascript, CSS, HTML >> We are not looking at plain coders but people with strong analytical >> thinking and people who can provide software solutions. >> >> In case you would be keen at exploring this opportunity do mail me your >> updated CV ASAP... also include a few samples that you feel showcases >> your capabilities end-to-end , Usability, maintainability, >> documentation... your test results/findings.... what are the enhancements >> you feel can/has... be(been) incorporated... >> >> Regards >> Anish -- From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Fri Dec 17 12:18:41 2010 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:48:41 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] [JOB] Python programmers required Message-ID: Hi All, I am working in ZeOmega Infotech Pvt. Ltd., Bangalore. ( http://www.zeomega.com ) We are looking for 2 to 3 years experienced Python programmers, the details are given below. If you are interested, please contact me: mbaiju AT zeomega.com Experience ========== 2 - 3 yrs Designation =========== Python Developer Skill set ========= Essential Skills ---------------- 1. Strong background in Python 2. Excellent debugging skills 3. Experience in building web applications 4. Proven ability to design and deliver custom solutions 5. Strong communication/collaboration/problem solving/documentation skills Desirable Skills ---------------- 1. Experience in Zope 2. Experience in RDBMS 3. Experience in JavaScript & CSS 4. Experience of working with GNU/Linux OS 5. Working knowledge of Subversion or any other VCS Roles and responsibility ======================== * Work in a team, building scalable health-care web applications * Analysis of problem domains and customer requirements * Deliver robust software components and solutions * Work with product group throughout development cycle to ensure quality of end product * Document code, track and fix bugs, respond rapidly to emergencies in production environment * Help writing project documentation, transition materials and training Regards, Baiju M From noufal at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 09:27:29 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 13:57:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India videos up Message-ID: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> Thanks to Sriram and others, I've managed to get the videos up onto blip.tv. The videos are at http://in.pycon.org/2010/blog/37-pycon-india-2010-videos-are-up. Please spread the word. Thanks! -- From vsapre80 at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 13:03:35 2010 From: vsapre80 at gmail.com (Vishal) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:33:35 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India videos up In-Reply-To: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: Checked out a few ones. They are good. Nice effort guys. A few ones have low voice quality, one was this one.. day2_hall1_part2 Thanks and best regards, Vishal Sapre On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 1:57 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > > Thanks to Sriram and others, I've managed to get the videos up onto > blip.tv. > > The videos are at > > http://in.pycon.org/2010/blog/37-pycon-india-2010-videos-are-up. > > Please spread the word. > > Thanks! > -- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- Thanks and best regards, Vishal Sapre --- "So say...Day by day, in every way, I am getting better, better and better !!!" "A Strong and Positive attitude creates more miracles than anything else. Because...Life is 10% how you make it, and 90% how you take it" "Diamond is another piece of coal that did well under pressure? "May we do good and not evil. May we find forgiveness for ourself and forgive others. May we share freely, never taking more than we give." From noufal at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 13:40:48 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:10:48 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India videos up In-Reply-To: (Vishal's message of "Tue, 21 Dec 2010 17:33:35 +0530") References: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <87k4j3xprj.fsf@gmail.com> On Tue, Dec 21 2010, Vishal wrote: > Checked out a few ones. They are good. Nice effort guys. > > A few ones have low voice quality, one was this one.. > day2_hall1_part2 [...] Unfortunately Yes. -- From santrajan at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 13:55:52 2010 From: santrajan at gmail.com (Santosh Rajan) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:25:52 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India videos up In-Reply-To: <87k4j3xprj.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4j3xprj.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: Good videos, especially for someone like me who missed pycon this year even though I had actually registered. Thanks. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > On Tue, Dec 21 2010, Vishal wrote: > >> Checked out a few ones. They are good. Nice effort guys. >> >> A few ones have low voice quality, one was this one.. >> day2_hall1_part2 > > [...] > > Unfortunately Yes. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > BangPypers mailing list > BangPypers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers > -- http://about.me/santosh.rajan From venkat83 at gmail.com Tue Dec 21 14:24:29 2010 From: venkat83 at gmail.com (Venkatraman S) Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 18:54:29 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] PyCon India videos up In-Reply-To: References: <87wrn3y1hq.fsf@gmail.com> <87k4j3xprj.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: Any recommended videos? -V- http://blizzardzblogs.blogspot.com/ From mails at anirudh.ind.in Thu Dec 23 16:25:50 2010 From: mails at anirudh.ind.in (Anirudh Asokan) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:25:50 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] post method Message-ID: Hey, Submission using post method does not seem to work properly. eg : for 'http://cbseresults.nic.in/class10/cbse10.htm' , the following script is not giving proper output. #!/usr/bin/python import urllib,urllib2 url = 'http://cbseresults.nic.in/class10/cbse10.asp' parameters = {'regno' : 'xxxxxxx'} # where xxxxxxx is a 7 digit numerical roll number data = urllib.urlencode(parameters) request = urllib2.Request(url, data) response = urllib2.urlopen(request) page = response.read(200000) print page also for, http://results.vtu.ac.in/ the following script is not working #!/usr/bin/python import urllib,urllib2 url = 'http://results.vtu.ac.in/default.php' parameters = {'rid' : '1hk09cs043'} data = urllib.urlencode(parameters) # Use urllib to encode the parameters request = urllib2.Request(url, data) response = urllib2.urlopen(request) # This request is sent in HTTP POST page = response.read(200000) print page Please enlighten me on this. -- Cheers, Anirudh Asokan www.anirudh.info From noufal at gmail.com Thu Dec 23 17:55:00 2010 From: noufal at gmail.com (Noufal Ibrahim) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 22:25:00 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] post method In-Reply-To: (Anirudh Asokan's message of "Thu, 23 Dec 2010 15:25:50 +0000") References: Message-ID: <87oc8cwhsr.fsf@gmail.com> On Thu, Dec 23 2010, Anirudh Asokan wrote: [...] > #!/usr/bin/python > import urllib,urllib2 > url = 'http://results.vtu.ac.in/default.php' > parameters = {'rid' : '1hk09cs043'} > data = urllib.urlencode(parameters) # Use urllib to encode the parameters > request = urllib2.Request(url, data) > response = urllib2.urlopen(request) # This request is sent in HTTP POST > page = response.read(200000) > print page I haven't tried with the first but with the above, the backend processes the POST only if the "submit" parameter is specified (the value is apparently irrelevant). curl -d rid=1hk09cs043 -d submit=SUBMIT http://results.vtu.ac.in/default.php | grep -i roshan will work but curl -d rid=1hk09cs043 -d http://results.vtu.ac.in/default.php | grep -i roshan will not. -- From mails at anirudh.ind.in Thu Dec 23 18:11:43 2010 From: mails at anirudh.ind.in (Anirudh Asokan) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2010 17:11:43 +0000 Subject: [BangPypers] post method In-Reply-To: <87oc8cwhsr.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87oc8cwhsr.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks a lot Noufal. :) . But why did you suspect 'submit' parameter? -- Cheers, Anirudh Asokan www.anirudh.info From orsenthil at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 02:19:56 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:19:56 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] post method In-Reply-To: <87oc8cwhsr.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87oc8cwhsr.fsf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20101224011956.GA1568@rubuntu> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 10:25:00PM +0530, Noufal Ibrahim wrote: > I haven't tried with the first but with the above, the backend > processes the POST only if the "submit" parameter is specified (the > value is apparently irrelevant). That's funny. Perhaps not-so-good a form design at the server end. So, with respect to urllib2, the OP has to just add another element to his parameters dictionary, namely 'submit':"XXXX" and it should be fine. -- Senthil From orsenthil at gmail.com Fri Dec 24 02:51:57 2010 From: orsenthil at gmail.com (Senthil Kumaran) Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:51:57 +0800 Subject: [BangPypers] FW: [python-committers] [RELEASED] Python 3.2 beta 2 In-Reply-To: <4D10FDA0.7090808@python.org> References: <4D10FDA0.7090808@python.org> Message-ID: <20101224015157.GA1911@rubuntu> This is the second beta of the upcoming Python 3.2. -- Senthil On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 08:18:56PM +0100, Georg Brandl wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On behalf of the Python development team, I'm happy to announce the > second beta preview release of Python 3.2. > > Python 3.2 is a continuation of the efforts to improve and stabilize the > Python 3.x line. Since the final release of Python 2.7, the 2.x line > will only receive bugfixes, and new features are developed for 3.x only. > > Since PEP 3003, the Moratorium on Language Changes, is in effect, there > are no changes in Python's syntax and built-in types in Python 3.2. > Development efforts concentrated on the standard library and support for > porting code to Python 3. Highlights are: > > * numerous improvements to the unittest module > * PEP 3147, support for .pyc repository directories > * PEP 3149, support for version tagged dynamic libraries > * PEP 3148, a new futures library for concurrent programming > * PEP 384, a stable ABI for extension modules > * PEP 391, dictionary-based logging configuration > * an overhauled GIL implementation that reduces contention > * an extended email package that handles bytes messages > * countless fixes regarding bytes/string issues; among them full > support for a bytes environment (filenames, environment variables) > * many consistency and behavior fixes for numeric operations > * a sysconfig module to access configuration information > * a pure-Python implementation of the datetime module > * additions to the shutil module, among them archive file support > * improvements to pdb, the Python debugger > > For a more extensive list of changes in 3.2, see > > http://docs.python.org/3.2/whatsnew/3.2.html > > To download Python 3.2 visit: > > http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.2/ > > Please consider trying Python 3.2 with your code and reporting any bugs > you may notice to: > > http://bugs.python.org/ > > > Enjoy! > > - -- > Georg Brandl, Release Manager > georg at python.org > (on behalf of the entire python-dev team and 3.2's contributors) > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAk0Q/aAACgkQN9GcIYhpnLDf8gCgkLGAsE+T3R505jZc1RxXDYsa > NSsAnRGaFjeTm9o2Z5O8FuIzTUG8t1PT > =hHzz > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers From baiju.m.mail at gmail.com Fri Dec 31 18:05:26 2010 From: baiju.m.mail at gmail.com (Baiju M) Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2010 22:35:26 +0530 Subject: [BangPypers] FaceBook community page Message-ID: Hi All, I have created a FaceBook community page for BangPypers http://www.facebook.com/pages/BangPypers/160541007325160 (Short URL: http://on.fb.me/fqy4Hn ) Well, I don't have any immediate plan with that page now. May be we can use it for organizing events. Any other ideas ? Of course you can 'Like' that page :) Regards, Baiju M