[BangPypers] Certification

Wed Oct 24 22:19:55 CEST 2007

Dorai,

I've seen the curriculum of an MCAD and (to some extent) MCSD. I've also 
interviewed and reviewed the code of people who've cleared their MCAD's. 
Most of them simply fail to measure up because MCADs focus on the 
intricacies of implementing something in .Net using the libraries - 
something which can usually be figured out simply by Googling or using 
MSDN instead of answering a test. What's worse, all the MCAD code 
samples implicitly teach some of the worst possible development 
practices. They insist on developing in C# like it's VB6 (view driven 
development) and misuse what MS claims are web services like nobody's 
business ( 
http://blog.sidu.in/2007/06/best-of-worst-standard-patterns-of.html ). I 
wouldn't let these guys anywhere near my code. Neither would I give 
someone I was interviewing any extra points simply for having cleared 
the MCAD.

AFAIK most language certifications simply ensure that people match up to 
the lowest common denominator in that field, something I can trivially 
verify by asking a few standard questions. Maybe they're useful for a HR 
drone, but are otherwise I'm yet to see any significant value in them. 
The only exception is when a certification allows a person to jump on 
some industry bandwagon with minimum effort (2 day Scrum master 
certification anyone?) - these are truly truly worthless.

Best,
Sidu.
http://blog.sidu.in

Dorai Thodla wrote:
> Anand,
> You make some good points. I have had similar experience to the one 
> you describe with certified Java and .NET progammers too.
>
> It may be interesting to find out what python.org <http://python.org> 
> thinks about certification.
>
> Dorai
>
> On 10/23/07, *Anand Balachandran Pillai* <abpillai at gmail.com 
> <mailto:abpillai at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I am not a fan of certifications, but I think he raises a valid point.
>     In today's IT industry, "certifications" are a fact and are here
>     to stay.
>     Of course, the most important thing is to build up skills by yourself.
>     Especially in learning a language, there is nothing like teaching
>     yourself and writing code. I know this myself, since I have taught
>     myself four programming languages (C/C++, Java & Python)
>     without the recourse of any "formal training", OTOH just by
>     learning from the Internet and participating in forums and writing
>     my own code and developing my own projects.
>
>     Still, having a "certification program" seems to increase the
>     popularity and effectiveness of adoption of a language in the IT
>     industry. Python is gaining popularity and increasing adoption
>     everyday and having a real certification program for it shall only
>     increase the profile of the language. Especially in a software
>     industry
>     market like India (and Bangalore specifically) it looks like
>     certifications
>     are in demand.
>
>     I have often found it difficult to assess the programming skills and
>     knowledge of candidates appearing as "Python programmers". In
>     my previous company which was a Python shop, a typical candidate
>     interview used to play out like this...
>
>     Me: So, how will you rate yourself in Python say in a scale 1-5 ?
>     Candidate: Ummmm.... like 3.
>     Me: Ok, very good. Can you write out a list comprehension to compute
>     the sum of a series ?
>     Candidate: Err... what is a list comprehension ?
>     Me: Ah, I thought you knew it. What did you tell me your Python
>     experience was ?
>     Candidate: I have worked in Plone and Zope and have written Python
>     scripts.
>     Me: Ok...
>
>     I am not trying to denigrate Plone/Zope developers here  (I know they
>     are great platforms and there are amazing Python programmers who
>     do Zope/Plone primarily for a living). But I found it difficult to
>     separate the
>     guy who has been doing only Plone/Zope customization and the guy
>     who has worked in Python as a language away from "platforms".
>
>     Perhaps a certification could be of use here. Not from the geek
>     perspective,
>     but from companies looking to hire Python programmers. It does make
>     a lot of  practical sense.
>
>     To answer the OP's question, there are no certification programs I
>     know
>     for Python in Bangalore. However, I think there is a requirement
>     and space
>     for this and we as a group should try and look into this. Any ideas ?
>
>     Regards
>
>     --Anand
>
>     On 10/24/07, Sridhar Ratnakumar <sridhar.ratna at gmail.com
>     <mailto:sridhar.ratna at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > On 10/23/07, Goutham D L <dl.goutham at gmail.com
>     <mailto:dl.goutham at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     > > Hi,
>     > > Are there any Python certification programmes in bangalore?
>     > >
>     >
>     > So I tried googling for this certification thing and came up with
>     >  
>     http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2005-June/004077.html
>     <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-announce-list/2005-June/004077.html>
>     >
>     > .. also this,
>     >
>     http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Interview-Questions-Answers-Explanations/dp/1933804548
>     <http://www.amazon.co.uk/Python-Interview-Questions-Answers-Explanations/dp/1933804548>
>     >
>     > If you intention behind doing this "certification" is to build
>     up your
>     > profile and increase the job prospects, just write software in
>     Python
>     > -- and add that to your resume.
>     >
>     > Here's your map,
>     >
>     > 1. Learn Python - http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/
>     > 2. Master Python - http://diveintopython.org/
>     > 3. Read code
>     > 4. Write code - sourceforge.net <http://sourceforge.net> et. al
>     > 5. Goto 3
>     >
>     > Examinations are not required, but hacker spirit is.
>     >
>     > --
>     > http://nearfar.org/
>     > _______________________________________________
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>     > BangPypers at python.org <mailto:BangPypers at python.org>
>     > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/bangpypers
>     >
>
>
>     --
>     -Anand
>     _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Dorai Thodla (http://www.thodla.com)
> Tracking Web Trends
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